Now don't go getting defensive when it's I already stated I was playing....and definitely don't go extrapolating science to fit your needs either.

Sea*star, where have you been, under a coral head??? No, I don't believe low self esteem is a gender issue. But I do believe the whole communications/empathy vs. solution oriented problem solving issues are. Seems many researchers and behavior experts do too. Just as males are hard wired to (generally) be better at spatial relationships, females are hard wired to be better at expressing emotions and communicating. Of course, these are generalizations over the population as a whole and there's HUGE overlap at the individual level. That's the way it turned out, I believe, and we shouldn't ignore it but rather, should recognize it. It's a fact of life - generally speaking.

First of all this is a HOTLY debated subject that you present as FACT. For every piece of evidence you can bring up...I just did an extensive search and can show you lots and lots of researchers that think it's hogwash.

here's a nice article that presents both sides: http://abcnews.go.com/onair/HealthyWoman/braingame020731.html

Why do you think females typically rate "conversation" as a higher EN than males and that males usually don't understand this? Hmmmmm? It's the empathy/communications difference thingy.

Maybe it's a testosterone thingie. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by star*fish:
<strong>
Maybe it's a testosterone thingie. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><HUMOR>
So that's what's wrong with many ladies, not enough testosterone.
</HUMOR>

I'm just kidding, even losing my hair (extra testosterone, right) I want may wife to be less hairy in all the right places, LOL. Testosterone would just mess that all up, wouldn't it.

On a more serious note, I don't believe it's wrong to notice that men and women are different. I think it's complementary to be different.

While overlap was mentioned, I really don't see women being inferior to men, or men being inferior to women. We each as a gender have our strengths and weaknesses. This is true from person to person, and I think there are some elements of truth to the stereotypes, both good and bad.

Well, that thing about communication must be true, since I'm just rambling now, LOL. I'm going to go out and re-arrange the pantry, LOL.

Tony

Defensive? Who me? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I'll look at that link with interest this evening.

I have to admit I'm somewhat dumbfounded - I didn't realize this was hotly debated. I really didn't. Seems there was just some news recently about brain research revealing male/female differences. "Duh!!!," I reacted!

Are you saying the whole Mars/Venus thing is wrong??????

Maybe I have been misled by "experts." But even by my own observations, Martians and Venusians are different - and it starts very young in life. Ever notice how a little boy and a little girl really, really, really act and relate differently? How can these differences NOT be hard wired?

Like Tony, I do not believe it's a superior/inferior thing. It can't be! Otherwise, we would not have evolved to where we are today. But my unscientific observations over my long life lead me to an undeniable conclusion - men and women have different cognitive characteristics. I guess what could be debated is why this is so.

WAT

WAT,

It's not the science that's hotly debated....we know for a FACT that men and women's brains act differently....it's the implications of those differences that are debated, and how that translates into the way men and women see the world. I purposely chose an article that supported what you said about the differences..because I want you to know I'm not dismissing them.

What I'm challenging is not that men and women solve problems differently or that women are communicators. I'm asking how that applies to Lisa's sitch....which looks very much like a self esteem, past abuse mind set than some kind of hardwired female thang. Being hardwired for communications strengths (like men are hardwired for the spatial stuff) does not translate into needing the kind of unhealthy external reinforcement that Lisa is craving. She doesn't feel okay unless other people think so too....and I just don't think that attitude runs along gender lines. Confidence can easily be achieved by both sexes.

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

Now I don't know what we're debating. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My curiosity got the best of me and I read that link and I was getting ready to ask you if you referred me to the wrong one!! Duh! This is what I was saying!!

Then I saw your last post.

I didn't analyze Lisa's sitch at that level of detail. What I was paying attention to was the way the gals responded. Pretty much along "female" lines and, being a guy, I focused on "Doc, it hurts when I do that." "OK, stop doing that."

So, are we in violent agreement? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So, are we in violent agreement?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">*giggling* Yes I think we are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Not to add to the female/male debate issues already on the table, but ....

I good friend of mine (scientist) told me that the reason females, in general, are more successful in multi-tasking than males, is because as fetus' in utero, the female's brains were washed over twice or > with their mother's designated pregnancy hormones, as opposed to male fetus' whose brains were only washed over once.

Can anyone confirm or deny?

Jo

Jo - the only real downside with a guy losing his hair is that when we wash our face, we don't know where to stop.

do I need to monitor the "sexist" conversation that is being carried over from my thread boys??

Ah, SCIENCE!

"Are you saying the whole Mars/Venus thing is wrong??????"

Mars' average tempera2re ranges over about freezing during the daytime at the equator, to over -100F at night. It's got a CO2 atmosphere comparable in pressure 2 ours at about 150,000 feet alti2de. If you went there naked, you'd die.

Venus' average tempera2re is pretty constant, something like +900F/ It's got a CO2 atmosphere that's 90 times the pressure of Earth's atmosphere at sea level. If you went there naked, you'd die.

If it's any consolation, you'd die a lot faster on Venus than on Mars. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

But we martians already knew that!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

-ol' 2long

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 06:17 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by 2long:
<strong>If you went there naked, you'd die.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Or if you got naked AFTER you got there, you'd still die, right?

That's why I only get naked outside in the Earth's tropics.

WAT
-------------
Koo Koo Kachoo