It has been 7 weeks since H moved out. A began in January. I spoke with my attorney and IC and they stated that I might want to start visitation proceedings before the baby comes in August as my WH might fight more then. Right now he seems agreeable but who knows. He is clueless. Never has a child before.
If I do begin proceedings the attorney drafts the visitation agreement that I want which limits his visitation quite a bit and he then can agree or object and go from there. I have to file for D if the visitation is to be set in stone. I can then wait until the after the baby is born to proceed with the divorce and other details. HELP WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

I would stay in Plan B. Don't even think about getting a D. You are too early in this.

Oh, Durham--this is so tough. On the one hand, it is early to think about divorce. On the other hand, you really need to get the visitation set in stone in order to protect you and your baby. It sucks that the roles of wife and mother seem to require contradictory things. Whatever you decide, take care of yourself.

durham, you can't initiate visitations in a separation agreement? Isn't there another way?

See, I think you need to do something to protect yourself because he is threatening to withhold support over the visitation issue. I think if you have to initiate D and then put it on hold, I would do that so that you are not left high and dry with no money at 9 months pregnant. Do what you need to do to protect yourself.

I suggest you ask your attorney about filing for divorce, if that is absolutely necessary to protect you and the baby (this assumes a legal separation isn't available), but then make the supporting documents that contain the basis and argument for the divorce read more like a Plan B letter. In other words, in the argument for divorce you can lay out the adultery BUT state the desire that if the husband would simply end the extramarital affair, end all contact with the OW, and agree to marriage counseling with a goal for recovery of the marriage that divorce would not be necessary.

This scheme would cover the legal aspects, but it would also communicate your true wishes.

Make sense?

WAT

If your husband is threatening to cut off support, then you need to take action to ensure his financial support.

Take him at his word on this. He's only shown himself to be a self-centered narcissist on this issue of your marriage. Do not allow him to treat you like an inanimate incubator! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Believer is probably correct that this is not the ideal time for you to begin a divorce proceeding.

But if you legally have to file for Divorce in your jusisdiction, to make a visitation agreement binding, you might double-check with your attorney, about the time limits for postponing and delaying divorce procededings, after filing for Divorce.

There may be a definite sequence of dates in your juridiction that must be met after filing for Divorce. Many jurisdictions are more flexible, and an attroney can ordinarily find ways to delay divorce proceedings indefinitely. The idea is to give a married couple a maximum opportunity to avoid a final divorce.

H is talking about cutting off your bill paying money. Is H giving any indication of moving out of state? The issue I see, is more that you have legal custody, so H can't legally abscound with the baby. Visitation is ordinarily a part of a custody Order.

Once custody is Ordered, and visitation set, can your lawyer drop the suit for Divorce, and have the custody Order remain in effect?

I sometimes tell my wife, "You are acting like you want a divorce." My wife likes to use expressive phrases, and huff and puff, "Don't threaten me with divorce!" I respond, "I did not threaten divorce, I said you are acting like YOU want a divorce." Is your husbband acting like he wants a divorce?

I am still working on Boundaries concepts of Loving Confrontation. Cloud describes 6 types of marital conflict, and 10 laws or principles to find solutions. It seems that your husband is completely wrong, morally, and you are completely blameless.

It is important to analyze each of your conflicts, so you are certain of being a boundary loving spouse. A Boundary Loving spouse quickly owns up to any mistakes. That means if you have shortcomings yourself, you want to fully acknowledge any imperfections. Your description of your problems does not indicate you have watched the videos or read the Cloud books. I still recommend Boundaries by Cloud and Townsend, because keeping a loving attitude will be a challenge in divorce negotiations.

When H receives the Divorce Papers from your lawyer, it may help clear some of the Fog away.

Blessings

<small>[ June 04, 2004, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>

H has agreed to continue paying the bills and only threatened that so I would talk to him. My attorney explained that I can do only the visitation part before the baby arrives and all the rest later. Even though I file it can be dismissed. The actual D would be on hold until I told her to continue.
I am going to talk to a child psychologist next week to discuss all of the issues and the visitation schedule. After that I believe I will speak to H about starting the visitation proceedings. Right now he thinks we will wait until the baby is born.
The only reason I want to do this is because I don't think he will fight as hard and also after the baby is born I will be in no state to deal with this. I don't want to be slapped with all of this crap a week after I have a baby. I want to enjoy!

Durham...

Do you live near your parents?

I was thinking, you might want to move in with your parents before the baby comes.

You're going to need help.

Or, if you have a loving relative, like an aunt or a sister, perhaps that person could move in with you a few weeks before the baby arrives.

In any case, I think this is not a good time for you to be living by yourself.

I am beginning to develop a very wary sense about your H and his nonsense.

I think you need protection. Actual physical protection. Like some other adult in your living space. That way, if WH shows up at your door, there is a witness

you hear me?

a witness to everything your H says and does....

Start documenting if you are not already doing that.

Keep a DIARY.... and daily... enter your thoughts, feelings, and any incident between you and WH.

and

you need someone THERE to witness anything else your H does...

Pep

PS...

I live in California...

and I have been following the Scott Peterson trial...

and Durhams's WH is starting to creep me out!

Especially since he's shown he's considering using money as leverage....

His thinking is very selfish ...

and I think he may be boardlerline desperate!

worried............ <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> Pep

Originally posted by durham76:
"H has agreed to continue paying the bills and only threatened that so I would talk to him. "

Durham...

ANY man who threatens his pregnant wife with financial damage

because his wife does NOT want to be part of his extramarital stupidity....

is a bully.

There is ~no~ excuse for his behavior.

none

Bullies must NOT be permitted an environment where bullying pays off.

If he gains ~anything~ by being a bully ... he will resort to that behavior again and again.

Stand up and do not take his threats!

Call your attorney.

Go darker than before!

......


and have someone move in with you ....

Pep

<small>[ June 05, 2004, 04:50 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Dear Durham,

Since the question of a divorce action has arisen, you might ask your lawyer about your position from a legal standpoint. Could adultery be an issue in Divorce? Is there sufficient evidence that H had a Physical Affair to stand up in Court? Has a forgiveness occurred? Have there been any adulterous contacts since the last forgiveness

Could desertion be an issue? Did H costructively desert by refusing to stop seeing OW? Is there constructive desertion in your jurisdiction? How do the facts add up to Desertion or constructive desertion?

If the Court were to order H to pay child support what is the range of amounts you could expect? Should you also expect Alimony? How much? How Long?

In Boundaries, Cloud suggests that our spuse cannot be expected to meet all our needs. Cloud suggests however, that before looking outside the marriage to get some of our needs met, that we present our needs to our spouse to see if our spouse wishes to try. You mentioned that H has a strong attachment to OW. Could you describe some of the emotional needs OW meets for H? Did H give you a fair chance to try to meet those needs he is getting from OW? Is there anything on H's wish list that you previously rejected, that you are now willing to re-negotiate, if H minimizes contact with OW to your satisfaction? Is OW's divorce now final?

Blessings

<small>[ June 06, 2004, 04:56 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>

Whaler
I have all of my ducks in a row as far as my finances, support, and divorce. My attorney was very clear and I understand everything.
As far as my H goes he never gave me a chance to meet his needs. Once he started seeing the OW in his eyes we were done. He stated he can't shut off his feelings. He loves her. He stated it was an EA first then became physical. I am not sure what needs she meets but I do know that he states he was depressed after losing our first child and she was having marital problems and they helped each other out. I guess it just grew from there. One of those I never meant this to happen. He continues to see OW and has told me he can't help he doesn't have feelings for me. He doesn't love me loves her. I hope that answers your questions.

durham -

This is all just more fogtalk. (Yawn......). I have heard this same story too many times to try to stay interested. He is in the throes of an addiction and will keep spouting this junk as long as you will listen.

Be focused on you and your baby. Put him on the back burner. Hopefully he will join you soon.

Dear Durham,

Thank you for your answers to my questions. Some of the questions were also intended as points for you to double-check with your lawyer.

It seems you have settled into a healthy frame of mind. Pregnancy, of its own nature, will have some days looking better than others.

I have been following your difficulties, and wish you well.

I agree with Believer that H is speaking Fog Talk, and that you should not try to make excuses for H's failure to keep his committments.

Blessings

Durham - I have absolutely no advice here. YOu are way ahead of me in this entire process. I just wanted to tell you to hang in there. I just got back from visiting family, including my cousins six month old baby. It was so nice to concentrate on the baby for once and not all the hurt and pain. For the first time in my pregnancy I got to be excited about the baby and be around people who were excited for me. Keep focusing on that and I know you will be alright.

KLOE

Making a decision to retain an attorney and start visitation proceedings has been extremely difficult but at the same time my H has given me no hope.
I think I am going to email him and let him know that I saw the attorney and he will be receiving the papers for visitation in the mail. I don't think I can stand to talk to him. Email is much easier as I don't have to listen to the fog. I am sorry. I will be sorry for a long time. I can't help my feelings for you. Barf.
Do you think email is the way to go? I do want to warn him that the papers are coming otherwise he will probably want to surprise me and I don't want that.

durham, I wouldn't contact him at all. Those papers say everything that needs to be said. If he has something to say, he can contact your intermediary. Please don't let him push you into breaking no contact again.

ditto Mel

Dear Durham,

It is nice that you are thinking like an ordinarily considerate spouse.

But pain for personal growth is a blessing. If you rescue H by giving him a head's up, you are saving him from pain that he both deserves, and that may help him mature to better understand his committments.

The fact that you want to rescue your H indicates that you are a nice person. The difference in rescue and true consideration, is that true consideration is a rescue from pain which is unearned or undeserved.

You can discuss the method of service with your attorney. H could probably notarize service and return the notarized papers through the mail. There may, or may not, be extra attorney fees.

Blessings