He tryed to post on his own name but didn't work,same e-mail address next post will be from him FWS

I have some of the posts here. My wife has given me other posts to read. She has been the champion in trying to solve the mess to our marriage that I create by having 2 A's. She has had me read all the books she has read, all the posts that she sees applies to our situation. I have learned so much about EA. She has had to literally pull out all the details out of me because it is so hard to admit to A's. Unfortunately how I reacted to the recovery process for her has been textbook "guy". I have used all the cliches, given all the same "guy answers". I try to remain calm during our discussions but the constant grilling makes me get defensive and sometimes angry. But I have learned through my BS (she has helped me more than counseling to understand my self better) I have come lightyears but still I have to work on understanding how to help her. I want to help her so deparately. Three years after she is in full review of her life and questioning the whole marriage. A's are so misleading. Many post about the highs,the rush, the emotional fullfillment, etc, etc. but in the end all are mirages. I finally realize how much I love my wife and need my wife for emotional support. I could have never admitted that years ago. She means the world to me and I am trying to do everything I can to prove that to her. There are the usual issues answering why, of rebuilding trust, restoring an emotional bond, rebuilding love. I am trying to the best of my abilities to do everything to make the marriage heal and work. I am afraid that I am not doing enough and I don't know what else to do. I am doing and will do anything to help my wife. Since this is my first post I really can't spill out everthing on how I feel or felt. Believe me many posts here by WS and BS fit me exactly could have been written by me. I want my wife to heal first and foremost and then maybe we can fix the marriage by my change. How do I convince my BS to believe in me, to gradually trust me again, and maybe restore/rebuild love? She is amazing in that she has gotten through this far trying to come to grips with all her fears and crashing world AND help me understand myself a whole lot better. I do not have the skill or emotional insights to do as much as she has done for us. I want to spend the rest of my life with her and become the model husband. She has every right to be angry and deeply hurt. But I need to help still more.

Welcome to marriagebuilders. So glad to see you are posting. We have a ton of WS's here, trying to rebuild their marriage. It is very hard right now, but you can do this.

You might want to write your wife a letter, and tell her how you feel. Sometimes that is better than talk, because she can keep rereading it.

In the meantime, stick with us. We can help you get through this.

Bump

" I try to remain calm during our discussions but the constant grilling makes me get defensive and sometimes angry. "

Just pointing this out to you ....

Is there REALLY "constant grilling"???

You may want to rethink your choice of words here.

The way this is phrased... it makes your W sound unreasonable... and I don't think that is the case...

right?

And if you change the word "grilling" ... (which makes YOU sound like a criminal and your W sound like a detective)...

to something like "truth-sharing" ...

it makes the whole process more POSITIVE..

doesn't it?

Good luck~

Pep

Pepperband,
Yes, bad choice of words - thank you
Like I said new to the forum - need to be more mindful of the choice of words. My wife has been outstanding through this difficult time - she has helped me as much as us. I just need to help her as much as I can.

I can only offer you my appreciation that you are willing to post here and help your W. I am in a rocky withdrawals/friendship with my H right now, I can only hope he someday loves me as much as you do your W. Just remember that she has had to hold up everything while you were "out" and she is probably exhausted and just needs time to digest and learn things.

I think in times like these just holding each other and squeezing tight sometimes helps. We do this everyday that we see each other, and if nothing else it just gives me positive reinforcement that he is really here in his own way. Good Luck and God Bless you and your wife.

HINY

Yes, bad choice of words - thank you
Like I said new to the forum - need to be more mindful of the choice of words.

Know what...

I am really asking you to be more mindful of the messages you send to YOURSELF!

When possible, re-frame negative or fear-based messages you give yourself...

and this will be more of a positive experience and less like a trial.

Good luck.

Pep

This is Linda, I post on recovery, but I am not sure we are there.This is a big deal that my Husband is willing to post..so THANK YOU and please keep posting to us.The last OW still works with him..I never told her Husband..HELP!

Dear Linda,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ..I never told her Husband..HELP! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What's your WS opinion about this???? Is he "comfortable" about the OWH to know????
Can he understand how important this is?????

Would it be "imaginable" to that you and your husband sit down and write OWH a letter??? A letter that will "open up this secret" and "No more Contact" letter in one????

This way it will give OW the message and she'll be getting it from her husband and it is then up to them if they "work on their marriage or not".

This is only a "thought"..............

I don't know if it is possible in your situation. I just don't think it should be left up to "you alone" to tell OWH.

I think that the "power" of you and your husband writting the letter to OWH will get the message over, that the affair has ended and that contact in any form is not wished for!!!!

hugs bb

Dear "HUSBAND",

I use that term respectfully!!! (notice how I drop the WH or FWH?) You are a dear to post here and get opinions!!

Reassure your W at every turn.....show her affection. Go out of your way to call during the day, send flowers for "no reason" accept you want to convey your love for her!

Have a date night out....one specific nite where you get a sitter and go out just the two of you. NO children talk. No work Talk....anything else goes!!!

Brush up against her during the day.....touch her when you can, little kisses here and there....

Write her notes...leave them on her pillow~ in her car~ on her windshield of car~ use a soap and write her a message on your bathroom mirror...

Do everything you can to possibly give her the reassuance you need to!! LOVE her.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Atruheart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

atruheart,
I (Lindamarylands husband) have been doing many of the things you have suggested - little notes on the coffee maker, emails, lunchtime phone calls, calls to her many times when a email pops up from her. Within the last week she doesn't really want those things to happen since she is re-evaluating her life. Prior to that she was very open to touching, kissing, hot tub, hand holding. I am sincerely afraid to touch her right now or hug her or give her a little kiss for fear she make recoil and I do not want her to do that. I guess I am letting her decide if she wants to get back to that level of closeness.

blondblossom
Yes I still work with the OW but have not seen her since discovery. I make no attempt to even run into her. I have done a little job searching but at the time the job situation was pretty dismal. I am more than willing to change a job but it has to be in the local area because both my wife and I want to stay around for our daughters activities - college, finish HS. WE have talked about letting the OWH know. Both of us have told the OW that either she tells him or she quits her job and finds another job in another company. First occassion she told my wife that her H and son would "beat the xxxx" out of me - overt threat. Last time my wife wanted me to tell her to leave she said she could not quit right away because she needed a job but that she would look. Me changing jobs has some implications- medical coverage, salary consideration (can not take a lower paying job), etc. Is telling the OWH in a letter a good thing? My wife was going to do it once and decided not to because of the threat. If it really helps my wife I now say let's do it and address the fallout if it occurs. Of course I don't want to be beatup or worse if OWH really is capable of that. What is the best course of action that should dictate - healing for my wife or caution and self preservation? This is not a shamelessly selfish question on my part. I know my wife wants the OW and OWH to go through the same hell we have been going through. The OW should not get off scott free. ADVICE NEEDED!

Linda's H,

It is very good that you have come here. As you said you have started to learn a few things, but it seems one thing you have yet to learn is very important right now.

This is going to sound very harsh, but it is not meant to be. You need to understand that HER happiness is her business. She will have to decide that she wants to be in this marriage and commit to it, just as you had to decide to commit to it.

You cannot help her heal any more than you could help her heal from a burn. You can however, rip the scab off and make things worse. The problem with A's is that someone makes a selfish decision, and that opens the door for new insights and other decisions.

You decided to have two A's, she did her best to hold the marriage together, but it took you realizing that you had made wrong choices before you could see what you had and stood to lose. YOU had to make the decision, you had to change your perspective, and YOU have to act on these changes.

She now is in a place where her perspectives have changed. I can tell you right now whether she has said it or not, she does NOT want the old marriage. She wants a better marriage, a deeper marriage, and she is at a point where she has to decide if it is possible with you, or if she should find someone else that meets her needs better. In many respects you can do nothing about this. You can run scared and try to be the "perfect" H, the total giver, but that will fail. Your taker will come back.

My suggestion is for you to sit down and decide what the perfect marriage would be for you. What your behavior in a perfect marriage would be. How you would meet this theorectical W's needs and how you would want yours met.

Once you have done that, then start to be the husband YOU want to be. Lead your life like YOU want to lead it. Treat her like you WANT to treat her.

This may not change her mind, but it will allow you to develop a comfort level with the new you. It will allow you to see if you have balanced taker and giver properly. It will allow you to be what you can be over a long term, not just a short term push to save the marriage.

My guess is as you become comfortable in your own skin, she will be better able to make her decision. She has a lot of anger, pain, guilt, etc built up. What she did took a tremendous toll on her. Let her heal, put some salve on the wound, but let her heal, meanwhile work on being the YOU you really want to be, and that is someone that is balanced in their perspective, and understands the balance "giver" and "taker" must have.

This, as you probably have figured out, is NOT accounting, the ledgers are impercise (sp), the numbers fuzzy, but there must be a balancing of taker and giver on the part of both of you.

She is right this is the time to reevaluate. You opened the door, by any measure she has the right to leave. She has seen the worst, she has been treated the worst, and she must decide if there is enough good to save this. It is HER decision.

I know you are probably like most of us guys and you want to fix the problem, but you cannot fix it. What you can do, is do it her way. Let her talk about it, over and over and over again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It is the female way of working through things. Let her do it this way and have patience, while the questions seem the same over and over again, the answers you give will have a different impact each time, even if they are word for word the same answers.

Part of this is the BS putting the picture together, that you have had full view of and they only a partial view. Part of it will be a woman's way of doing this vs. a male's way of doing this.

Have patience, be a better parent to your children your time is running out with them no matter what. Be a good H to your W, and listen to her.

There is an old saying that we are given two ears and one mouth and they should be used in that proportion. It might be a good idea to consider.

Must go, hope something I have said will help.

God Bless,

JL

well said JL!!

Linda's H...I am a FWW and would like to welcome you to MB. I would like to comment on your statements about helping W heal first and then you. I totally agree with JL..it's taking me a year of recovery to realize this but I have to be responsible for healing myself and my husband is responsible for his healing.. That's not to say that I won't be more sensitive now to things more than before the A such as calling him more when I'm going to be a little late getting home from work, etc. etc.

I'm starting to see somethings about myself that I've never seen before. The A and many wonderful people here on MB have given me much needed insight to move forward. My H can't heal me nor can I heal him. What was missing in my life pre-A is an issue that I have to address internally. I'm starting to see some things about myself that I've never really opened my eyes to before and you know what, that's a good thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It's painful but it's bringing about a healing in my heart and mind.

I wish you and Linda the best!! Please keep us posted on how you're doing as well as your w.

Just Learning
I thank you for the advice (LindaMarylands) You are right I can not heal a wound but only apply a salve in the way of compassion, openess, patience, honesty. I never thought about me deciding what a perfect husband is "too me" and then work on being that perfect husband I want to be for me and not for her. That is a kind of different approach I would never have realized. Sure guys want to fix the problem - women want to talk through it until they reach a decision. I read the book Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus - and it provided a tremendous insight into how women think/work diferently through a problem than men. After reading the book I am amazed the human race survives with such different thought processes. So I will take your sage advice and insight to heart. I can apply the salve. - I thank you deeply and sincerely.

JL and others a big thank you! This is Linda. I have had a very hard time, with my FWH.He will tell me to forget it(his A's)or just fake it like your happy!!! when I have a trigger. Often I will just withdraw and not say a word..BUT this is not me. I am outgoing,I see a wonderfull IC every week..and lately I have been more myself,more contact with old friends.I put all friendships on hold for the last 3 years..I spent everynight home with my H or out with my Husband...put our repair as the number one priority...we got along fine, 80 percent of the time..we even went though a "honeymoon" stag soon after d-day..but it is the 20 percent of the time where the damage has been done.I have often thought that I am over his A's many times.I have gone months happy as I can be..I believe that he is sorry he cheated.But I still do not Trust him,do I think he is cheating on me now today? NO Do I think it is possible that it will happen again? Well SURE! Because it has..I have never wanted a Divorce.But I am now not sure if I am willing to take that risk of more pain from my H.So I am not sure how to protect my heart? anyone understand how I feel?

Linda'a H,

I am glad something I said was of help to you. I do think focusing on what type of H you want to be is crucial for you and for Linda. Why? It is the only way you will truely honor the position you have. You have to make these decisions and only after you do, and only after your actions follow your goals, will she be able to trust. But, the most important thing is that if you become who you want to be, AND she decides that is good enough for her, you will be able to maintain this role in both of your lives.

I suspect you noticed she asked </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But I am now not sure if I am willing to take that risk of more pain from my H.So I am not sure how to protect my heart?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The sad but true fact is/was she is NOT supposed to have to protect her heart. YOU are supposed to protect her heart. One of the things you need to figure out is why you didn't and is protecting her heart something YOU can do. It is truely your decision but you can see what hinges on it.

You see she could stay in the marriage two ways: she protects her heart or you protect her heart. Which way do you think would bring you and her the most happiness? The second way of course BUT it is the most difficult way, it is the hardest way, it is a way that requires you to be vigilent of her emotions and your wants and desires. Can you do it? I would suggest you do your best to practice it and see if it is something you want to do. If it is and you find she is starting to open up again, then you have a decision to make: can you do it for the rest of your life.

You can see her problem, she cannot stand the pain, but she doesn't want to have to close up and protect herself in the marriage. Yet, she has NO control over whether you will protect her or not. If she trusts you, then you have her heart in your hands, and you have dropped it before. If she wants to be certain, then she does not open up, she never lets you into her life, and the marriage can continue but only as a shell.

You have a lot of control in this situation. You had a lot before, the issue you can you and will you accept the responsibility.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> anyone understand how I feel? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She asked that question because she is uncertain of her direction or decisions. That means there is a chance if you want to take it, but it will require something of you that perhaps you have never done: put your heart in her hands. Open up, and discuss your fears, your anger, your guilt,...your feelings. And then once you have decided on your goals with respect to being the husband YOU want to be, she needs to hear these goals and your plans, and see if your actions match them.

This process is not done over night, hence the caution that you must be true to yourself or you will NOT be able to stay consistent throughout the process and the remainder of your marriage.

Linda's H I think it is evident to you that YOU have a lot of control of this situation. She must heal herself, but YOU must evaluate and address yourself for this to work. There are no guarentees, but the old saying "a faint heart never won the fair maiden" holds very true her. This is tough stuff for her, and it is for you.

So read, talk with her, think about these things, and make decisions concerning YOUR goals as a husband and father. I think you can do this, and I think there is hope for you two.

God Bless,

JL

Just Learning
I started our marriage with the most noble of intentions and I want to finish the same way. Along the way I hurt my wife terribly and I hurt myself and my daughters. I have every desire and most sincere intent to be a good husband for the rest of my life in my eyes and hopefully in her eyes also. I have lots of work to do - build trust, restore love, protect her heart - I intend to work on us the rest of my life if she will let me. And yes I need to be the person I want to be but she comes first.

Linda's H,

This is very good news. But, here is part of the complications of doing what you state you want to do. You CANNOT be a total giver, it will not work. You CANNOT be a total taker, it will not work. So while she comes first, it is important that you address what you feel is a good H, and work on that. It will never do to run out of gas with this.

Here is something else to consider. Make you list of what you think would make a good H. Make the list of things that you know you can do, and would actually like to do. Then make a list of the things you know you need to do, but will be harder for you to do. When this second list is complete sit down with Linda and talk about it. Solicit her opinions. In the harder to do category, there needs to be a discussion of how she can help in those items she feels she really needs from you. How the two of you can team up and do these things.

Linda's H, you must be very honest with yourself and with her this is part of the trust building. You two are really on the same side. If she is happy the odds are very high that you will be happy. It is also in her best interest for you to be comfortable and happy in the marriage.

So the concepts of radical honesty and the policy of joint agreement, POJA, are really crucial here.

Go slow, think carefully, communicate fully, and work together. You had the A's for a reason discuss the state of the marriage before the A's, not in a he said she said fashion but as a way to learn from these things and then discuss how both you could make changes that would make you happy.

This is really a negotiation, where what you are negotiating for is happiness, and trust from and for both of you. It takes honesty, and really open communication, but it also take caring for the other person.

If you have not read them you both should read Harley's four rules for a good marriage. Nothing shocking there, but definitely the source of good discussion and contemplation.

Hang in there you can do this, and I think that Linda wants you to do this. My guess she wants to be able to trust you again, to easily and comfortably talk with you, to love you. You just need to make it easy for to do this.

It will take time, so have patience.

God Bless,

JL