Who else is plagued by the thought that if somebody knowledgeable could intervene, it might be possible for a WS to realize that trusting his/her "no more love" feelings is a huge mistake and that the task of working on his/her M is far easier and less painful than ending it?

It seems so obvious from my perspective. I don't think my WW has sought out any information outside the conflicting advice of family and friends.

Accepting the things I can't change, or at least trying,

GC

<small>[ November 06, 2004, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: cipher ]</small>

I understand where you are on this. I think most WS (including myself) want things to move faster and the fog is not necessarily that easy to lift.

I don't think my WS even sought out any opinions, which really had me scared but his family pretty well told him he is screwing up. And yes, I'm still wanting things to move quickly. But I'm beginning to rethink the need for quickness. And the confrontational mode did not work for me. The sooner I got on to focusing onto myself, the quicker I have seen WS show interest in me. I do believe that the roller coaster ride is about change and that a WS is struggling with it inside.

Its to early for me to say what may or may not have lifted some of my WH fog but I see it lifting some.

We talked, I cried, I made myself focus on me, instead of wanting to change him.

But talking, talking, and talking as painful as it can be is what I seriously think has helped.
I made a point once WS did start talking to let him go with it, get it out and no holds bar.
It was quit painful, I don't think he even noticed how I was hurting. I remember shaking but I kept the conversation going to get him to talk.
Doing this allowed him to remember that he trusts me enough to say anything and I took every opportunity to agree with him that I could. I purposefully put my concerns or disagreement on the back burner (for now).
I needed him to know I'm still here and listening.

I don't know. Its hard. You can't MAKE them or FORCE them to see the error in their thinking.

The closest I came to telling my WH that I thought he was screwed up was the following. "you know that I love you, I know you don't doubt this. And as much as I can seperate myself out from being your wife and just being a friend, I feel like even if we get a divorce, you are heading into disaster by thinking that this OW is your future. I see pain and heartache for you."

He made no reply to this. I know that he trusts me and I know that even with the A that I still love him. He doesn't understand why, but he knows I do.
Use the strengths that are still strong in your M, I haven't a doubt you haven't lost all ground.
And be patient. Your alternative is to not have your wife.
For me the alternative is not even a consideration, I must give this M absolutely everything I've got.

Yep, I'm mired in the day-to-day details. I'm constantly preparing for the next shift in the state of things, thinking about all the variables, most of which I cannot control, and it's making me flip out. Control freak, me.

I'm also nervous about what and when to tell people outside my circle, like neighbors and coworkers.

It's only a week since she said she wanted to quit the M. Maybe I'll get better at this. MB forum keeps me going when I have nobody else.

GC

The essence of fog is justifications and rationalizations.

If anyone -- friends, family, you -- attacks the fog, they will ramify the WS in their justifications again.

But...but...but...this is my soul mate...this is true love...I always knew my marriage wasn't going to last...I never really loved betrayed spouse...I love my spouse, but I'm not IN love with him/her...

The person attacking the fog just "doesn't understand."

GC -- you sound exactly like me... I too am a control freak (which is one of the problems with my M, incidentally). This situation sucks because the WS has all the control.

I finally gave in and saw a doctor to get on an anti-depressant (the first time I've ever in my life even considered doing this), and it has really helped me calm down. All those thoughts running through your head is hard to deal with.

Unfortunately, I agree with the other posts, in that the WS has to figure this out on their own. Just try to be there (in an attractive light) when they emerge from the fog. I think my WW has talked to her mother twice in the last 9 weeks (and they used to talk at least once per week) She's avoiding talking with anyone who might bring up the slightest bit of reason (including a close friend of our's who was the WW in her relationship, and got back together with her H). She just doesn't want to hear that what she's doing is wrong.

<small>[ June 07, 2004, 08:43 PM: Message edited by: phantom8808 ]</small>

Shucks, phantom. We're twins. My MIL is not giving my W any slack either.

I would really like to avoid the drugs, though I should perhaps get something for sleep. All I do is dream about my W and wake up disappointed. Over and over, all night long. And I do have lots of this anxiety during the day. Not helped any by the fact that with all the self-examination I've decided to give up smoking. But still, when I see W and I'm upbeat and cool, and she wonders how it can be, I don't want antidepressants to be the explanation.

So here's a question: at what point in her effort to get free of me do I stop cooperating? Do I help her get an apartment? A lawyer? Man, I'm gonna lose my a** in this deal. It's just a bad deal in every way.

GC

GC-I know how you feel. My W used to be so clear-headed and know she doesn't seem to know which way is up. Anyway, to your last question. I read an article once about a woman leaving a man and what he did to get her back (not sure where I read it). He was in a similar situation. She wanted to move out. He decided that he would try to remove himself and just be her good friend. He helped her pack and carried heavy boxes for her. He even loaned her some money to pay rent. All the time he just acted as her friend. Of course this was very painful. But when she had problems she would call him first because he was her best friend. She finally realized she was being dumb and came back to him. I know it is hard but being a friend and listening without judgement is what got his wife back. It is worth a shot.