Ws and I both jointly own marital home...he volentairly left home on Oct 4, 2003 to reside in his old office building...he is living in his old office...that is also maritial property...he set the boundaries that I am not allowed to visit him there ..why ..because OW is spending time there with him...so sad as my son does not even visit him....here is my dilema...WS has left most of his personal belongings at marital home...I have requested him to remove them several times but he seems to want to remove them piecemeal...he has recently sent an email requesting a few more things...I have appointed an intermediary who sees WS on a daily basis and he has agreed to deliver any items that WS needs..in this last email from WS I have requested he send me a list of items he wants and I will deliver them to intermediary asap..he refuses ...states he will have to come up to the house from time to time to get a few things...I stated he has requested privacy from his abode and I would like the same...I have been very prompt in delivering anything he has requested and feel now boundaries have to be set in place for me to move on..I do not want him coming here removing things as he gets the urge to do so...am I being unreasonable to request this course of action...I have not changed the lock on the premises but feel after many months of separation with WS abandoning me here to look after everything that I need to look out for my wellbeing..

My WH was the same way. I didn't even know where he lived, or his phone number. He showed up whenever he pleased to pick things up. It got very annoying.

One day I saw his truck parked at his daughters. So I packed up all his stuff and filled up his truck - very quietly. It was hilarious.

The only thing left was guns and a gun cabinet, which I put in his front yard last night. I have been politely asking him to get it for 3 months now.

Believer I really think this is his warped way of trying to stay in control and contact with me..I have already cleaned out his closet and filled garbage bags and dumped them in front of office a few months ago...( just forgot to fill them with water...was in the middle of winter)...there is not much left here for him to take...just got another email stating he now needs to work on the car here...I really want to tell him to bug off but since I am filing for legal separation do not want to rile him up too much..I know the purpose is to see if I am seeing anyone and what I have done to the house ...He has not been here for about a month...I am going to stick to my guns here...(sorry no pun intended re: your Ws's gun situation) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ June 08, 2004, 11:51 AM: Message edited by: New Outlook ]</small>

I just got tired of him showing up whenever he wanted. Now there is nothing in the house that belongs to him.

I think you should pack all his stuff up and when he comes to get something ask him to take it all.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you should pack all his stuff up and when he comes to get something ask him to take it all.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thought of that but knowing him...two weeks later he would come up with something else..we have a big house with two double garages full of stuff..to try to pack everything you would need an eighteen wheeler <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ June 08, 2004, 12:15 PM: Message edited by: New Outlook ]</small>

Outlook, same situation I’m in. WW bought a house 200 meters from mine.. has most of the stuff out…but doesn’t seem to want to take it all. Likely is having a hard time realizing she may choose never to be in this house again. She has a key and I have let her go in to “take what she wants” but she never takes it all. I have changed the alarm code so she cannot enter at will now without a siren going off.

I too have not wanted to rile her. I have not even given her the PBL yet, as our separation agreement is not finalized. I cannot risk upsetting her too much as she is allowing me more than she has to in financial terms and letting me have the kids every weekend. I’m walking on eggshells and she is walking all over me. I now want plan B.

Here in Canada if she has her own residence, as your husband seems to have, she cannot enter my house without consent, or my garage as the case may be. With marital property the law can be very grey and specific to each jurisdiction so I advise you to get legal counsel. Matrimonial property issues can get very convoluted and police are hesitant to get involved, as ownership issues are usually a civil concern.

I agree that you are being manipulated through the property. Have it moved to storage and send him the bill. My separation agreement will have a specific date where property will have to be divided and then everything else stays in place. I also will not allow my spouse to use my property to fix a car or anything else for that matter. If he wants to break up a family he can suffer the consequences. A marriage is not a cafeteria where you just take the items you want (i.e. a well-equipped garage) and leave behind the “dishes” you’re not in the “mood” for.

Thanks for the info Binder from a fellow Canuck..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I also will not allow my spouse to use my property to fix a car or anything else for that matter. If he wants to break up a family he can suffer the consequences. A marriage is not a cafeteria where you just take the items you want (i.e. a well-equipped garage) and leave behind the “dishes” you’re not in the “mood” for.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I totally agree on this one...WS stated that if I came unannounced to his abode the police would be called..so I just want to set boundaries for myself as well..it has been suggested to change the locks but since it is joint property I suspect not a good move on my part...after the legal separation is complete I will do just that..I suspect he does miss the house since he is now living in one room but that was his choice...he gets upset when I remind him of that...trys to play the poor me living like a bum while I am in the executive home..well I am maintaining the home here by myself with no help from him and it ain't an easy job..I do all the yard work myself and the maintenance upkeep so he can have his pity party all he wants... he never asks if I need help only contacts me when he wants to remove another item from this place..I am in Plan B and the less contact I have from him the better I am and that is the way I would like to keep it...

That’s right….I forgot I was communicating with a fellow Canucklehead…I am not a lawyer and cannot give legal advice, but I can speak with some authority on the criminal side of things in Canada which is consistent across the country. Matrimonial property is provincial jurisdiction.

Your husband can call the police if you come around his place, but they will not be able to take you away or charge you with anything, unless he has a restraining order or peace bond against that very action. Or, heaven forbid, there is domestic violence involved. Otherwise you are free to go there. Do not go into his home without permission even though it is joint property, It is now, in effect, his “dwelling place” which affords him the right control who enters. The same applies to your residence.

However, as joint ownership of property, as I stated earlier, is grey in this regard, police are loath to get involved when confronted with ownership disputes. Even the destruction of property is acceptable, as it is joint. (please please don’t take that as a suggestion)

I’m merely trying to communicate the need to spell things out in an agreement and invoke provincial matrimonial property laws to protect your interests. Get legal advice regarding the laws in your province if the property issue is becoming to great a strain on your well being. Doesn’t sound like he’s being too cooperative right now. Maybe the consequences of irresponsibility are sinking in.

Trust me, Canada law is favorable to the spouse earning the lower wage. I’m going to make a rash assumption that he makes more merely because statistically men usually do. He might be living above his anticipated digs should he decide to divorce you. It’s a good thing he’s getting a taste. Stay dark. Speak to a lawyer, get his lawyer to spell out the reality of life should he become a x-spouse. That may be the “cold pail of water in the face” as WAT would say.

Binder here's the deal with us...WS prominent business man..I worked part time while he persued his career and was there for our son...m 30 years...he now says he does not want to pay me alimony as he is retired and no income...we have all the bells and whistles ..he sold his business 5 years ago..I look around and see all the toys, investments etc. and think ok were are alright financially...I have never been involved with the finances and even do not know how to file income tax...he took care of all of this..all the household files were kept at his work...after DD he returns files home..ask me to start paying the bills...I take a look at the files and previous to A...WS being a business manager all statements and cheques are attached neatly with check marks for each expenditure...after A started...statements missing with no accountability..I worked parttime in a bank for years so have a pretty good head for this sort of thing...I start combing through everything..I now have a handle on every penny...on DD find out we owe bills like crazy which were just piling up on WS desk...we removed a sustantial amount from our investments to pay bills because I have since determined all accounts have been drained by WS who has continued to spend like there was no tomorrow...WS is a pretty smart cookie..from previous business he has lots of property but all are only property with no exsiting businesses operating except the one he is occupying...he waits until we separate to try a new business.. therefore I have no dibs on it...he is using only money he earns from the business to put back into business...he has started what he calls a Music plex...has band rental rooms, rooms set up for musical instruction etc...we have one joint account where we are puuting a small amount in each month from a small investment to pay household bills...I have to live on that which is very minimal..in the meantime I have got credit in my own name and he the same...he is racking up his cards and now wants more money from investments to pay his outstanding bills...I have hired an excellent lawyer and he is very upset as she is well known in the city...keep in mind he is in the throes of a mid life crisis and reacts with anger..he is used to being in control of everything and now is very upset that I have put a halt to spending and removing money from investments...again he feels he does not have to pay any alimony as he is only making very little in new business...things are such a mess and I have put Plan B into place big time...he has an OW who is from the opposite end of the scale..your typical needy, user type who sees $$$$ signs...I feel sorry for him but have to now look out for me...he is on a path of self destruction but I now have to remove myself from all of this..he has been cake eating for a year and I have let it go on because I had hopes of him coming out of the fog and putting my family back together but each time he hits me with more pain and anger my love for him is all but gone...I have no respect for him as he constantly lies...I do not want this type of man in my life so here I am just trying to protect my financial future before there is nothing left......

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Speak to a lawyer, get his lawyer to spell out the reality of life should he become a x-spouse. That may be the “cold pail of water in the face” as WAT would say.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And to top it all off he is very angry at me for starting legal proceedings...he claims he is only making $200/week and hopes to eventually support me with this but in the same breath states that if this new business fails he is leaving town..so where are my options in this <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ June 08, 2004, 02:43 PM: Message edited by: New Outlook ]</small>

I hope your lawyer is not only good, but attentive and timely in his/her approach. Remember, the lawyer works for you! Some have a knack for making it seem the other way around. If the lawyer is not protecting your interests adequately, find one that will. In each city there are a small group of family lawyers that are known to be the "top" in their field. You pay for it, but without the help, you will pay for it.

It appears your husband is padding his financial nest and preparing for the worst. I am not that literate in business matters, but I get the impression he is looking out for his potential future in a big way and possibly hiding assets as best he can.....he is likely savy enought to do so.

Remember, half then assets are yours, don't let him spend/hide/move your money. He must disclose all the assets as is usual in provincial divorce laws. He also must pay spousal support if he has the higher income and you have stayed home to raise your son etc. Your lawyer should be giving your all that info, I'm sure you have paid him/her a fat retainer to do so. Write out the questions you want answered, and don’t leave their office until they are answered in a manner you fully understand. Then write those answers down.

Ask your lawyer all the questions regarding the retention of assets now in his hands and the disclosure of those assets. An accountant may be required to unravel his shenannigans. Get a financial "coach" to assist in planning for your future if your WH doesn't come to his senses. Your husband is angry, because he's scared. He knows he is financially responsible for you. I'm sure you've kept all the records you can. I hope they can be stored where WH can't get at them.

I'm not suggesting throwing in the towel, but (like me) plan for the worst, hope for the best. You are a young woman; you have a long time (God willing) to live. Do not let him make you a pauper. You don't have to make him one either, but he may do that on his own. You can't control that.

Plan B....legal advice/action......financial coaching.

Don't forget to pray.

Further, his spousal support is usually based on the last 3 years of income. He must produce those T-4 slips if you don't already have them.

Leaving does not free him from his financial obligations. It does, however, make plan B easier. My province has a maintenance enforcement program that can and will suspend your driver's licence for non payment. This government agency has lots of teeth and very good investigators. I'd rather have a thousand paper cuts on my face than have them on my case if I was an irresponsible husband/father.

If he really wants to flee his responsibilities, i.e. leave the country for instance, it is all the more reason to get on this ASAP. You can protect your interests without LBing.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In each city there are a small group of family lawyers that are known to be the "top" in their field. You pay for it, but without the help, you will pay for it.

</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Done he is mad I have retained one of the best and yep know I will have to pay to protect myself..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am not that literate in business matters, but I get the impression he is looking out for his potential future in a big way and possibly hiding assets as best he can.....he is likely savy enought to do so.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I suspect this is true...and yep he is savy to do anything he can to keep his money...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Your lawyer should be giving your all that info, I'm sure you have paid him/her a fat retainer to do so. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeppers and she is very good on all accounts...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">An accountant may be required to unravel his shenannigans. Get a financial "coach" to assist in planning for your future </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She already has an expert business accountant waiting in the wings...my financial advisor is great and has refused to rmove nay more of our investment moeny without my say so...WS is furious and tells me he is done with him in the future..advisor is already planning for me how to reinvest to a lower risk level...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Your husband is angry, because he's scared </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very true..BUT I have tried to reconcile four times with each time he returns to this OW..he has so much guilt for the turn of events in our lives that he refuses my help or love...he is a very proud. stubborn man who will never show remorse for what he has done to ur lives..he prefers to stay with OW because she is in the same place he is at ..misery loves company <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'm sure you've kept all the records you can. I hope they can be stored where WH can't get at them.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes and yes..he knows I could be a PI if I set my mind to it...researched my family genealogy for a year and he knows how thorough I am..acutally there is a PI course offered here in my city and I have thought about taking it...I mentioned it to him awhile back and he stated "well we know you would be perfect for that..."

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do not let him make you a pauper. You don't have to make him one either, but he may do that on his own. You can't control that.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am only wanting to to protect myself financially for the future...

Thanks so much Binder for your suggestions and insight to all of this mess..your reply is greatly appreciated...

and yep prayers everyday from all kinds of loving, caring family and friends...