I had this posted on PLanA/PlanB but have decided to move it to here where there is more traffic.

I am VERY slowly watching my spouse come out of withdrawal. he seems to slip in and out. Today we spent nearly all day alone together and it was really positive. He even wanted to go out together this evening and later watch a movie (and have sex)with me instead of going online. he didnt forget the "dont read anything into this" comment before going to sleep though <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

What I have realised are that all the reasons that I left the marriage are still there, some are actually worse. I realise that these conditions, if not fixed in the long term, will make my resentment build again. What I really dont know is when to begin the negotiations... He still says that he wants to leave me (he cant afford to do this at the moment anyway) so I really dont feel in a state to be able to do anything like beginning negotiations to have my needs met at the moment. I do show appreciation when he does things for me that do meet my needs but other than this positive enforcement I really dont even see a way to approach the subject. If I ask him to meet specific needs he will simply say hes leaving anyway so whats the point, and that he doesnt want the marriage to work.

when I came back I did set a year as a marker point for me to reassess the situation. At the moment I am simply heading for this point. I cant see any possibility of getting my needs met until he comes out of the fog. In teh meantime I am concentrating on not LBing and fulfilling his needs. he wont tell me what these are so Im using the top 5 mens needs plus conversation , which I know is important to him.

When, and how, can I begin negotiations?

Debra,

1st of all, where are you in your plan? Your actions sound like you are in neither and really s/b in 1 (IMHO).

What kind of MC or IC support are you both in? You really shouldn't be meeting his s3xual needs if he is still having an A w/a guy. The risks to you and the effect to your family c/b devastating. He should know this also.

Now, how familar are you w/plan B?

L.

<small>[ June 13, 2004, 02:36 PM: Message edited by: Debbra ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Debbra:
<strong> As far as the sex goes he had a one night casual PA with a local man he met online. he regrets this very much as he is not a casual person. He has had several EAs online. At the moment he is not in an affair. Therefore I presume we are no longer in Plan A. Basically I am avoiding LB and am meeting his ENs as much as possible, he is in withdrawal and not prepared to commit to teh marriage at this time. I presume this is the early stages of recovery.

Im very aware of PlanB and would be prepared to move onto it at some point if I feel that it would work. At the moment we seem to have a pleasant status quo. We get along together very well, spend quite a lot of time together and are reestablishing our relastionship as best friends. He still doesnt trust me.

We are on the waiting list to see the local psychologist for counselling but this is taking longer than anticipated. My psychiatrist advised me not to go to anyone else as the issues are so complex. All other counsellers here are part time and do a year long evening class to qualify. their role seems to be just to listen and help you sort our your own feelings. My husband has been seeing an IC for some time and I feel that she has not helped our situation in the slightest as she simply says everything he says is ok. I feel he should be seeing a christian counsellor but this is simply not available here. he is having some counselling by a church leader but his situation is not something he is used to.

As I stated...what worries me is establishing a situationw here I meet his needs and get nothing in return. I appreciate he is in withdrawal but I need to know where and how to start. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Debbra:
<strong>....As I stated...what worries me is establishing a situationw here I meet his needs and get nothing in return. I appreciate he is in withdrawal but I need to know where and how to start. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Debra,

Herein lies the reason why you need to consider plan B. A WS often will remain in an incomplete state when the BS alows him/her to by enabling the state of mind or lack thereof. My H had told me at one point that as long as I would allow him in/out, that he was going to continue that rollercoaster ride. Of course he told me that as I was coming out of plan A. That immediately help me see the need for plan B, which I implemented swiftly. It then took about 4 weeks. 2 of those 4 weeks brough him back to reality real quick.

I recommned you give Steve or Jennifer here @ MB a call. They do phone counseling and your scenario would not be too hard for them to handle. They have seen a lot.

Please review the book Surviving an Affair and His Needs/Her Needs. Both are by Dr W. Harley. This will help you see that before you go to plan B, your heart and mind need to be in sync so that you can handle the path it takes you. Remember the reason for plan B is not about the WS, it is about protecting the BS and your needs.

As an xws, you will see how important this is more than others. Remember though that now you are experiencing it as a BS, many other emotions will come into play. The trust factor needs to be dealt with on both sides. You both have valid reasons NOT to trust the other but those reasons should NOT be used as an excuse to prolong bad conduct.

JMHO,
L.

<small>[ June 13, 2004, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: Orchid ]</small>

Thanks for your reply Orchid.

I am definately not ready tomove on to PlanB at the moment. I was emotionally separated from my husband for 3 years (the 15 months of physical separation included in this). I really feel that before moving onto Plan B I need to reestablish our friendship and relationship in general. I have only been back here for 6 months. 3 Months into that time he had his PA one night stand and that was the time when his EA online ended their relationship, telling him to come back to me. He is only just beginning to get over this EA. I give him as much support as I can. I do understand where he is coming from. He is really only just beginning to slowly come out of withdrawal and allow me to begin to meet his needs (sometimes!). If I was to move on to PlanB now it would simply confirm what he believes, that I dont really love him and came back only because my other relationships didnt work.

I recognise, by reading here, that a lot of people are having it a lot harder than me. I am reestablishing a close reslationship with my husband. I really feel that it needs to be given a lot of time. If I was to move into PlanB this early he would simply view it as an attempt to manipulate him. I am not rejecting PlanB outright but I really feel it is not the right thing at this time.

I will certainly not make any move before the year that I set as a goal is up. Living with him is by no means unbearable and we do get along very well. I would like more of my needs met though and some hints on how to go about negotiating without LBing!

Debbra, in order to negotiate, you have to have someone to negotiate WITH. He is not at the table. What would be his motivation to negotiate anything if he is happy with the status quo? If he is happy with things as they are, he would be crazy to negotiate that away. What would be his motivation?

To make me happy?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Debbra:
<strong> To make me happy? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is a great motivator to him? If it is, I am curious why it hasn't motivated him before.

<small>[ June 14, 2004, 07:30 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I doubt it. He commented earlier today that there was no reason to make an effort as we would only slip back into teh status quo after a few days anyway. This has been teh pattern throughtout our marriage. We would discuss my need for affection, usually following a blow up over my refusal to have sex, and he wopuld promise to make an effort. he would do this for a few days and then we would end up back where we started. Since I returned we have been having sex regularly (and better than ever from his point of view) but I am not getting the affection that I need. When I tell him that I am trying to meet his needs and i need to have mine met , he simply says " I didnt ask you to meet my needs". It seems I have become the giver and he has become the taker. Its a frightening pattern. I am a very loving person and I desperately need affection. last night , long after he had gne to bed I was crying and crying. I just need some strong arms to hold me. Whatever happens we are stuck together in teh short to medium term for financial reasons, if nothing else. he says to give me affection he doesnt feel would be a travesty. I feel he is trying to throw me towards having another affair so that I will leave him and then it will be my fault and not his. I do need to add that we are generally quite content together and get on extremely well. I am not living in hell like some of teh BS here. I just need affection. Is it too much to ask?