It has now been about 3 months since Dday. I don't feel any progress has been made. I truly believe my W's PA ended but she does still have contact with OM. Most contact is initiated by OM not being able to accept it is over but some initiated by W.

She seems so cold and distant it is hard for me to keep up a positive front. We have had some talks about us but not much. She still says she has no feelings for me if she ever did. This of course makes it even harder for me. I was sending her text messages every couple days just saying Hi and I hoped she was having a good day.I try to be friendly and not LB but she says I am just obsessed.

She has said she doesn't think we will get divorced. However, I'm not sure. I know I can't live with her being so cold and distant. We do talk but I can barely touch her. I give her hugs but it seems to make her uncomfortable. If I put my arm around her she slowly pulls away. I just don't know what to do. I'm losing it and am having a hard time to keep going. I really need any words of encouragement from anyone. Thanks!!

Are you living together?

Yes, we are living together.

Plan A...give her the best you can but dont over do it. You will be fine.

There are other FWW her maybe they can give you more opinion. Try search on this topic.

Staggered,

The reason that your WW is still cold and distant to you sticks out like a sore thumb: SHE IS STILL IN CONTACT WITH OM.That's no secret.

Forgive me but I don't think I know your whole story.Are you in Plan A right now,I would assume? Have you thought about Plan B? It sounds like a NC letter was not sent is that correct? Can you get a profile? It really helps people like me,that come into these posts later,to know your status.

Your WW sounds like a cake eater right now even though she may not be physically seeing the OM but he is still in hot pursuit no less.At some point you will have to put up some boundaries for her which may include Plan B soon.Your statement of not feeling that there has been any progress is a classic sign that *something needs to change.Whether it's the counselor,the Plan or what have you.What you are currently doing appears to not be working so it's time to review what can be done next.

O

<small>[ June 14, 2004, 08:08 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by staggered:
<strong> Yes, we are living together. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">staggered, first off, I would suggest backing off. Touching her or chasing her in any way seems to be a huge lovebuster right now. And that makes sense, because she is still having an affair and is very emotionally detached.

You realize she is still having an affair, right? Any contact means the affair is ongoing.

If she doesn't want to be divorced and says she doesn't love you, then what is her plan? Why is she there?

What need do you think the OM is meeting for her?

O-I know something different has to be done, but I just don't know what.

ML-I had backed off considerably. I hadn't sent her any messages for about 2 weeks. I haven't tried to hug her for a while either. Even though I wasn't doing this very often. I do just feel like she has lost her feelings for me. It may be due to the fact that she can't find them for me if she is still in contact but if I ask her about her contact with OM she just says its not about the A its about her losing feelings for me if she ever had them. That I don't want to listen to this. Of course I don't really know how how to respond to this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by staggered:
<strong>but if I ask her about her contact with OM she just says its not about the A its about her losing feelings for me if she ever had them. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Staggered, but that is not an answer to your question. You need the question answered. Her lack of feelings does not mean she doesn't have to be honest with her H. This is about your life too, and you have a right to know what is happening in your own life.

And she wouldn't have feelings for you if she is still having an affair and it sounds like she is.

Wanted to add-W has said she is here because of daughters and also because it would devastate her father and grandmother if we split up. Plus, I don't know what need OM is filling. Apparently, he pursues her mainly. 2 weeks he called to tell her he was going to kill himself. I think W feels bad and yes is still emotionally attached.

Staggered,

I lost my other post to you but I'll just recap.

What your WW is saying to you is because she is still involved with the OM.You have to learn how to tune out these hurtful fogged statements because they are a crushing blow to our hearts and egos.

It may be time for Plan B because your WW is deep on the dark side and further attempts at a Plan A are being rebuffed.Maybe the suggestion of her moving out and being on her own will help pull her off the fence.Right now she has all the comforts of home and you and the children while she still contacts the OM.Whether or not it's the OM contacting first doesn't matter IMO.She still talks to him instead of a NC letter.Now this OM has made attempts,serious attempts,to win your WW to his side by threatening suicide.This man is dangerous.

IMO,I could see this sutiation going on for a long time staggered.Your WW sees no need to change,she has it all at home and the OM is still a part of her life.You may need to do a Plan B and soon.

Your WW cannot expect you to endure this continued unfaithfulness on her part.At some point,she needs to see how serious you are about her ending all contact with that man.She needs to see what she will risk losing if she does not.

O

<small>[ June 14, 2004, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Your wife will never have feelings for you until there is NC with OM. That is just the way it is.
would she come here and post?

O-I look forward to your post.
B-I don't know if she would come here and post or not.

Thanks for comments. Have to pick up girls. Any further comments welcome. Will check back in about half an hour.

As I see it,there are two options left to choose at this juncture:

1) Continue in the status quo.Nothing changes.WW still maintains contact with OM while she lives at home with you/children.WW has no incentive to change and therefore doesn't.

2) Intitiate Plan B and set up plans for WW to move out(live with family or friends),PBL,intermediary for WW to see/pick up kids.If she works,she can form her own personal bank account and you start to split funds so you will not be financing their A.Let OM try to fulfill ALL her needs and he will most likely fail and fail horribly,especially when it comes to children and family(" The lover simply will never be able to take the place of the spouse,but the spouse CAN take the place of the lover"-Dr.Harley)

Ok,so which course do you choose? Both are hard and hard work too.One is emotionally draining but the other can be emotionally empowering as you learn and grow from being detached from the source of pain: the A and your WW.You set boundaries and stand up for your dignity and integrity and your marriage.You take a stand that this situation that your WW has created for your family no longer can exist as it is.

You show your children that a marriage takes two and even though your WW is staying for the kids,the parents or whomever at this point,she STILL needs to make an effort to save the marriage or else she is just a bystander,a loafer,a cake eater and fence sitter.She will need to make a decision one way or another but if she can't then it may be made for her.like I did with my WH.

Hopefully the discussion of her leaving and what she stands to lose will shake her out of her resistence to letting go of this OM once and for all.If not,then you do have an option.

O

Thanks for the comments. I really don't believe the PA is continuing for different reasons. However, continued contact does constitute an EA especially since it is hidden from me. I don't think Plan B is possible at this time(at least not financially). I do think some changes need to happen. I need to confront her and let her know how I feel again about having NC. However, it just seems to be a major LB everytime I mention the A. I just don't know how to bring it up. Of course it doesn't help that my confidence is so low due to previous comments from her.

Staggered,

Why is a Plan B not financially acceptable at this time? Sometimes finances can be a jolt to the WS to let them know just how foolish it can be to continue in an Adulterous relationship.I hope you aren't using that as an excuse to maintain the staus quo and not make waves.I have heard so many newbies here say how frightened they are of a Plan B but it was my saving grace at a time when I was so down and lost hope.

Ultimately,you know that you can only request/ask your WW to stop contact with this OM so many times but at some point,you HAVE asked 100 times and she has refused to stop.Then what? Do you ask again or do you CHANGE the equation,take yourself out so she can no longer use you in the background of her life.Don't you want a wife,a partner that is right there with you,100%,in the marriage and as a mother?

Asking your WW to end the A and stop contact is NOT an LB,so don't confuse that fact with what your WW is saying.We know differently.She is again,using that as an excuse to prevent the NC.In a way,it fuels her desire to contact him more or allow it.So if I were you,I would stop asking.She KNOWS that she shouldn't be talking to this guy,she KNOWS that she has messed everything up but she is powerless to stop it.Remember that ole phrase: being abducted by aliens? That applies here as it does with all our other WS's.

So,let's hear the real reasons you have for not entering into a Plan B so we can review them.Some feedback may help you come to some conclusions about where you're headed.

O

<small>[ June 14, 2004, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Octobergirl ]</small>

Finances is a major reason. W is actually major bread winner at this time. I am a student and only work part-time. We just bought a house last year and neither could afford it on our own. So we would have to sell it which would take time. Also I don't think she would be the one to move out which means I would have to move out. Since we are living in Europe in her country I don't know what this would mean with our girls. Although I know she would want and need me in their life as much as possible. Of course, they are also a reason-I couldn't imagine not being with them all the time.

ok,there are some road blocks but you may be able go around them.

Do you own the home jointly? If so,then you do have rights which can include having your WW move out until she is ready and willing to make your marriage and family the priority.It is not an LB to ask her to leave since SHE is the one having an A and is refusing to stop.You could ask your WW to stay with family or friends while you are both going through this and it will still enable you both to keep the home,both contributing financially, for the children to stay in primarily.I wouldn't advise trying to sell the home at this point.It's much too soon to be even thinking about that.But,one day it may be necessary if things aren't working out.

The other option would be to get a legal agreement that if you move out of the house,it's for X reasons,that way you are protected from any abandonment issues she may try to place on you in a legal separation or a D.I don't know how the laws work in Europe but in my state,the H or W has to be living out of the home for a year or more for a W or H to claim abandonment in a court proceeding.

How much longer are you retaining student status? Any chance on putting that on hold for the upcoming summer and working full time while you go through this?

No doubt this is a very difficult situation and a painful one at that.I guess I would like you to see yourself 6 months down the road and what that looks like.Eventually,even with all the complexeities of the current situation,you may still have a WW that refuses to end her involvement with the OM.

And,unless you are willing to put up with that for eternity,what WILL you do? Waiting and hoping that it will all work it self out is a pipe dream.I'm not saying this is what you are thinking but at the very least,we have all at one time or another hoped it would not be as bad as it is.There are some very heavy decisions to make and we here are,for the most part,in the same boat as you and can only give advice from our own experiences.

Your WW has to come to an understanding,at some point,that the situation that she has placed you all in is unfair and is hurtful and she cannot be allowed to let it continue to the detriment of all around her.How best to do that than to start making it difficult for her to be there with you under those circumstances?

Since you are a student,maybe it might be worth the effort to start to gather some information and maybe seek some legal counsel as to what your options are regarding the kids,the home and your marital rights.Many of us here have already done that and I for one,found it very helpful,speaking to a lawyer about what I could expect in different scenarios.

O

Yes we do own house jointly. But I'm not sure of my rights. I do want to talk to a lawyer to see what my rights are. I am writing my masters thesis now and should be finished in about 3 months. I want to hold out till then. If things are still the same I will fully consider my options at that time. For now I will keep trying to Plan A and hope for better results.

Well,3 months doesn't sound unreasonable to wait given your circumstances and thesis coming up.I can appreciate how important that is.

That sounds like a plan so I wish you much luck in the interim. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


O