I popped into the Divorce boards and ran back here straight away. I don't belong there, YET.

Mm hmm. I have been thinking of the big D more and more often these days. Seems like my relationship with FWH would only be good if I stopped asking questions, stop talking about him, me, or us, stop getting angry and if I stopped crying altogether. All he wants is a quiet, subdued Ruffled, quiet as a mice, never asking for more time, more affection, more conversation, more admiration, more sf. When I stop all the asking, everything is fine. Except I am still hurting inside, and I feel lonely.

I don't know where FWH lives. He doesn't want me to know. He would rather hurt me or see me hurt myself than to let me know. I don't know who he is with or where he is during the day or at night. I don't question him about the amount of time he spends at the office anymore (FOW is there). I don't call him anymore, even when I feel I need him.

I did remind him that it has been a year, and he has no plans to come home to be with me. He got very offended, and was defensive. Sometimes I long for him to come back, sometimes I don't. We've grown apart, and I don't trust him to be in my apartment anymore. He didn't proove himself to be trustworthy the past year. There were still a lot of lies. Lies about money and a whole lot of itty bitty lies. Lies by omission, usually. How can I be with someone who can't be truthful to me? How can I live this way? This is not who I am, and I don't want to lose myself.

I still feel saddened every time I think of leaving and the ending of my M. My head says go, but my heart is still weeping. It is not reluctant, just crying for all the sadness inside me. I'm just gonna stay here for a while more till I'm ready to go.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ June 14, 2004, 11:04 AM: Message edited by: Ruffled ]</small>

Hi Ruffled, Truly sorry for your pain. I've been knocking around the D issue myself. I know how you don't want to go there. After all we are the ones that were committed to the relationship. Although, if your husband is not coming home (it does not sound like it), What is left for you to salvage?
good luck
Rich

{{{Ruffled}}}

I know. I am feeling the same today.

I think they hide because they feel guilty. They don't have the courage to face us, so they hide. they don't want to admit that what they are doing is wrong and that it hurts us. They are ostriges. At the same time, they miss us, and are scared that we might move on.

Do you have any contact with him at all? Does he call you?

Let me ask you something- what attracted your husband to you when you first met?

I don't know about you, but I was a different person back then. I was peaceful, calm, happy- but the past years I turned into this clingy weepy sad person.

He says just being around me makes him feel guilty, for all the hurt he has caused,the way he has sabotaged our life, so he hides. He doesn't want to talk about anything either- and I think I'm going to do just that- not talk about us anymore.

Like it says in the 180, don't bring up anything about the relationship.

He is expecting you to ask questions etc. Maybe this will make him nervous.

Let him see you as peaceful. BE peaceful!

I have been realising, I don't want my husband back in my life as a partner until he is ready to be married- honest, faithful, committed. I don't want lies, cheating, hiding either.

Its as if we are already divorced, in a way, and I am looking at him as a potential mate.

If he isn't ready to be married, its his loss.

I pray that they will both come to their senses soon and see what they are missing, and that when we are around them they will see someone that they will want to be with- a beautiful loving woman, inside and out.

As for the guilt, I need to somehow let my husband really understand that I forgive him, but that doesn't mean I will live with him the way he is- there is no point being with someone if we are a house divided.

And I guess I need to stop letting him take for granted that I want him back.


Shul

Hi {{ruffled}},

I don't know where you are in your situation since you have no sig line but I just wanted to let you know that I cared.I felt similarly many months ago but I can truly say that heading for a D feels right for me at this time.So,until it does feel right for you,and I'm not saying to jump for joy,far from that,don't head for a D.Keep on working on you and making your life better as if your WH isn't in it anymore which is partly true anyway right?

That is what I have done.I have asked for guidance and have prayed,I have done the plans and read numerous books and gone to counseling.But alas,I cannot do it alone.A marriage takes two and I am standing by myself.We each have our own limits and it sounds as though you are not quite there yet.

I want people here to know that it is not failure to make the choice for a divorce.It doesn't have to be for us because we are all here trying to save our marriages,trying to help other's while in pain ourselves but because we one day may need to stop the madness and leave our WS's if they do nothing to change isn't our fault.If we can take some of the blame off ourselves because D is a decision some of us have to make then it may make it easier.Just give yourself more time.Take it easy,there is no rush.Your life is on YOUR timetable,no one elses.ok?

O

Dear Rich and Octobergirl -- I am so tired and alone. Recovery begins when both spouses work at rebuilding the marriage together, doesn't it? Can both spouses be apart and yet be successful in recovering the M together? I am tired of trying to reconnect to H. My head has already given me all the reasons to give up and go. Oh, if only my heart would leave too.

I am waiting to reach that limit, when even my heart says 'no more'. I guess yes, I will know when the time comes. I want to be so sure that I will not look back and wonder if I made a mistake walking away or if I had not given him enough chance.

But also, I am troubled and confused here. This is what my head's telling me: If I look at H's character, he is a predator. He sets out looking for young women. He knows which types are likely to fall into his trap, and he says so himself, he plays along and sees how far they are willing to go. He has had 2 As and were looking for ONS and other willing women before DDay. He has a list of targets from the internet. That is not on for me!! Will I choose to stay with a H like this? He is Nightmare MM!

On top of that, I take into consideration that he is also a compulsive liar and has failed to manage his money over and over again. He's always had money issues. But instead of managing better as he earns more, his money problems just grew and grew! I am the opposite and can help him, and he knows it, but is too lazy to develop good habits and behavior regarding money. Listen to me talk... I am also tired being his mother. But he refuses to talk to anyone about his problems and he won't read up either. He wants help, but doesn't want to make the effort to help himself. He wants to be given help. This is why I also keep questioning if I will regret choosing to stay with him.

We don't have any children, so our D won't be so complicated. We can both start over again. Of course I will feel cheated of my fertile years but there's nothing much I can do about it now.

Shul -- H calls, almost everyday. We still see each other for a few hours a week. But during our time together, he only wants to talk about 'safe' subjects. Like, when was the last time I went jogging with my friend, which was the last movie I saw, how is my mom, how is the cat, etc. If I start approaching ENs, As, our M, he will withdraw and stonewall. I can feel his resentment. It is probably his defense mechanism about feeling too guilty, too ugly. It also shows his resentment towards making up to me. I think he feels I criticize him too much.

What else can I do? I start gently, dropping hints on how he can make me feel good, he is too prideful to pick up the hints, I wait, I tell again until I am frustrated. I get angry and then I tell him resentfully he never does anything for me and he gets defensive when I do this, so the whole cycle never ends. I don't know how to change this.

What attracted me to him when we first met? He made me laugh. He was attentive and devoted. My girlfriends saw how much he loved me. They said they could see when he looks at me, everyone else in the room disappears. He traveled across the globe to be near me when I went away for my studies.

I'm not very good at 180! I want to talk about the relationship all the time!! The less he wants to talk about it the more obsessed I am! It drives me nuts. Both of us are unhappy. Maybe peace will come when God strikes me in the head with it. Aaaargh! I want to run away! I feel I failed Him.

I am at peace when I get some of my issues resolved with H. How can I resolve issues when H avoids talking? Shul, my hair's turned grey!

Am I too stubborn to learn or is this normal?

Anyway, I want to thank all of you who have so kindly responded to my post/vent. It helps when I feel someone is listening to me. I feel a little less empty. I needed that, you guys. Thank you so much.

I read my post again and realise how it all began...

I tell him I need him to spend time with me... he moves a little further away. I tell him I need some affection... he moves a little further away... I tell him I need some sf... he begins A...

I haven't learnt anything, have I?

Nahhhh...you have not learn anything yet...you still need a couple more slaps before it hits you in the eye that you need to move on.

If you want him back or save the marriage...you need to follow MB program as strictly as you can.

Since you are not in plan B...you must do a good plan A.

Personally i believe you need to do a plan B on your WH.

Your rollercoaster has still got a long way to go.

I know that feeling not wanting and wanting WH. I believe i was in that stage a week ago. Not today though...i believe i have reach another turning point...i am quite at peace knowing my deadline is coming up fast. At peace knowing i need to do a divorce.

Like Octobergirl said...when the time comes...you will know it.

Er... don't know what happened tonight.
Must be zizzy's telephatic slaps or high amount of msg in my dinner.

Told FWH,'Don't call me again."

I guess that's it, folks.

H went to a pick-up joint last night.
I had to fish the information out of him.

Do I need to say more?

I think I've just got to get some money and get those divorce papers filed. As long as I don't do it, I am in withdrawal and I can't let go. I don't know why he is going out like this and still not giving me a divorce. Why does he think the M will heal itself?

I hate being in withdrawal.
It feels too lonely and sad.
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

<small>[ June 19, 2004, 08:47 PM: Message edited by: Ruffled ]</small>

Ruffle...hold plan D. You dont sound like you are ready for plan D yet. By reading your postings i see that you are still emotionally attached to WH. You need to get to a point where you dont feel so strong towards him anymore.

Try do a plan B first. It helped me tremendously. If you decide to do plan B...dont forget to write a good plan B letter okay.

Zizzzz,

I love your name.
How are ya doing.
I see you are D-ing everywhere.

FWH is coming over to explain his night out.

I went to the doctor this morning and she said she's gonna knock some sense into him... better than a counsellor <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Plan B letter? There's no current OW.

I am D ing everywhere...need to vent or i will go out of my mind.

How sure are you there is no OW? I read back my diary last night. I had 4 months of red flag signs that the affair was still on going but i was too blinded to see.

Take care now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />