First off, thank you to all (esp. Lisa103, KiwiJ and cwmac) who posted looking for me. I took some time away from the boards because I felt so hopeless and frustrated that my recovery was going nowhere. I went on vacation the last week of May and yes I have been lurking but I am hurting now and need help.

I replied to a post by movin' on but I don't want to hijack the thread. Please reply to me here!
Thanks

my post is Here

cwmac,

thank you for your reply. thank you so much for caring.

hmm...boundaries...can i set boundaries without him thinking i am being rebellious?

remember, H is passive/agressive and intellectually driven and i am very emotionally driven. most times when i express my needs he thinks i am just being flaky or immature.

in the past i have been very immature and very flaky. that is not who i am now. i am growing into a true 'identity' and as i said the dynamics have changed considerably. i am scared!

he is always too busy to get to the therapist, he knows it's tuesday nights at 10pm, funny how he is *always* tied up in the shop on an emergency job every friggin tuesday night...

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

no communication...

Will he read any relationship improvement books?

Men are from Mars Women from V... is a good one to at least explain to your H that men and women think and communicate differently.

I've been known to be passive/aggressive.

It wasn't until I truely knew that my marriage had hit bottom (like an alcoholic) before I was willing to get help and work on the mess that is cwmac.

me

Another thought.

Some people respond better to letters than verbal communication. You may want to try that avenue.

Tell him how important it is to you. Logical people sometimes need to see everything written with reasons to back up your thoughts/ opinions.

Men take women's problem discussion as criticism so make sure he knows that you aren't criticizing him when you want to talk about the relationship.

Women also typically can't stand it when men listen to a woman's comments and then draw a line from point A to point B and say "problem solved." The woman feels like she wasn't heard and that the H was condescending ie "the answer is simple dummy."

Somehow you need to get through to him that you and his marriage to you is more important than the IPO, the bigger contract, the whatever.

Put him on the board here. I'll straighten him out!

"Well I'll and then I'll. He'll be sorry he ever messed with me." he said in his best cowardly lion voice.

me, again

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> problem w/H is that he treats me like a child. He is controlling and oftimes very condescending. He is very sweet to me and it's only when I show signs of independence or expressing my NEEDS and WANTS that he becomes so demeaning. It's almost as if my independence scares him. SOmetimes he is like Jeckyll & Hyde, I swear!
Now when we met, I was very immature, scared and naive. Our relationship was one of adult/child. He was much more stable and mature and basically my 'knight in shining armor'. In the past few years I have changed so much for the better(with the exception of the hideous, horrible AFFAIR) careerwise, socially, and maturing into an independent smart woman. The dynamics of our relationship has changed. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OMG, this is very similar to my story, too.

Please please please get David Schnarch's _Passionate_Marriage_ and read about differentiation. Don't think of doing anything now--divorce or otherwise. Study what's happening so that you can proceed from your best self (rather than as part of a chain reaction). I know this sounds vague but I sense that action is not the right thing, just now.

I have

1.Surviving an Affair
2.After the Affair
3.Getting the Love You Want
4.His Needs, Her Needs

on the coffee table and bookshelf available to read at any time. I have sent him the link to this site, to General Questions II, to Just Found Out, to In Recovery; he'll 'check them out when he gets the chance'.

cwmac, i was a mess for a long time. i was immature and needy and sick. he is so used to who i was that it is hard for him to see that the A and what is happening now isn't just another 'situation' that i'll eventually get over.

i am so different now, it's hard for him to see that i am GROWING UP and not REBELLING!

does this make sense?

in the past (pre-A) i was so enamored by him, i worshipped him, i was grateful that he saved me and stuck by me through a lot of hard times. (i am still grateful). i felt guilty and like i owed him my life. i feel so differently now, he isn't the fantasy knight in shining armor, he isn't the dad that i never had, he isn't my 'god'. he is just H and i guess in my own sick way i am disappointed that those feelings and ideals are gone, and also scared that i don't know what to replace them with.

i know he has acted out of love for me as well as to fulfill the need of being needed. i know he loves me and yes i love him...

i feel so empty inside...i feel so detached from him...and at the same time i revel in my newly forming independence...

Hi mrsx,

I am sorry to hear that you aren't doing so well.I remember posting to you many months ago when you were first trying to give up the OMM.

Your concerns are valid ones and I can hear the frustration in your post.If only we could have a little chat with your H to make him see how close he is to blowing it.You have both had this great ooportunity to make your marriage btter and it's slipping away again.I wish we could rech out to him and to you.I know this is hard.I am nowhere near any recovery but I am saddened when I hear about chances being lost.

Your H needs to change his perception of you and treatment of you.Neither of you is the same person since this happened but your H has reverted back to old habits and ways that are not beneficial to the marriage or to your self esteem.

Like cwmac mentioned,perhaps there is a certain way he can be reached to make him understand YOUR feelings,a reflection of what is going on in you,not what he thinks.If there's any way to get him here we can hopefully get through.Hmmm.What else? A friend of his maybe? Someone that he trusts,like a guy friend that might know what you are both going through?

Have you sat him down,face to face and said "Look.We are in trouble again and this time it's because I am feeling like you don't understand my concerns and I want you to understand".Something like that?

O

cwmac,

I will do as you suggested and put my feelings down in writing...this post makes a LOT of sense to me, everything you said is right on. thank you.

mrsx

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cwmac:
<strong> Another thought.

Some people respond better to letters than verbal communication. You may want to try that avenue.

Tell him how important it is to you. Logical people sometimes need to see everything written with reasons to back up your thoughts/ opinions.

Men take women's problem discussion as criticism so make sure he knows that you aren't criticizing him when you want to talk about the relationship.

Women also typically can't stand it when men listen to a woman's comments and then draw a line from point A to point B and say "problem solved." The woman feels like she wasn't heard and that the H was condescending ie "the answer is simple dummy."

Somehow you need to get through to him that you and his marriage to you is more important than the IPO, the bigger contract, the whatever.

Put him on the board here. I'll straighten him out!

"Well I'll and then I'll. He'll be sorry he ever messed with me." he said in his best cowardly lion voice.

me, again </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

OK will look for the book everlong. Can you tell me a bit more why you sense this, btw? Do you think I am allowing my emotions to dictate my decisions? I am often guilty of that I'm afraid....

thanks everlong,

mrsx

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by everlong:
<strong>OMG, this is very similar to my story, too.

Please please please get David Schnarch's _Passionate_Marriage_ and read about differentiation. Don't think of doing anything now--divorce or otherwise. Study what's happening so that you can proceed from your best self (rather than as part of a chain reaction). I know this sounds vague but I sense that action is not the right thing, just now. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

O,

I suggested H and I take a drive yesterday to Nyack Riverfront Park which overlooks the Hudson River and is just a bit from the Tappan Zee Bridge.

It is beautiful there, secluded, peaceful, wooded romantic. I packed a lunch and brought a blanket.

We ate lunch, hiked 5 miles, saw some very brazen deer, took pictures and then sat on the beachfront to talk.

I felt my hopes slipping away when I told him how I felt about our situation. I felt them slip further when he turned our issues into financial burdens. I felt them slip further when he said we are nowhere near financially ready to even think about starting a family.

I know I have messed up and I am trying to prove to him that I can do whatever it takes to make a future for us. He doesn't want children. I do, desperately. I have for a few years. Money is always the excuse. I know couples much much worse off than us having families and they are HAPPY.
In our talk, we discovered our goals are so different. I am speaking up about what *I* want from life, and telling him that I am no longer just along for the ride while he lives *his* life.

I felt the thread that was holding us together snap. I felt my heart breaking in my chest. I saw 11 years and an affair flash thru my mind and began to cry for what has been damaged due to the A and what is unravelling as a result of so many things, including the fallout from the A and us merely growing apart and realizing how different we really are.

Again, I am SO SO sad and SO scared! I wish I knew how he FELT and not what he THINKS!

mrsx <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Mrs. X - I have not replied to you before. But it seems to me you have latched onto the American fantasy - "They got married, and lived happily ever after."

I can tell you that while your WH is logical and unemotional, and you are unhappy, if you get a divorce, the next guy you get with might be:

1. Abusive
2. Lazy
3. A cheater
4. A liar
5. A compulsive spender
6. Divorced with 6 kids, & tons of child support

You got the point I hope. There are no guarantees. If you know very many married couples intimately, you will find that most have all kinds of problems, and all kinds of adjustments to make.

I would work on this marriage, and seek to meet some of my needs from other women, or activities.

Figure out one need that is most important to you and see if he will meet that. Otherwise, I see you going from one man to another, seeking them to meet all your needs. It will not happen. Then you will be too old to have a child, if that is what you truly want, and you may end up with someone worse than you have now.

I had my kids late. The first was at 35 and the second at 38. I was always waiting for the perfect man. Well, that guy just does not exist.

Hi Mrs. X,

Sorry things are so crummy right now.

The thing that stands out to me is that you say your husband does not want children. When you bring it up, he relates it back to finances.

So which is it? He wants children, but doesn't feel financially able to support them right now? Or, he doesn't want children at all. Period.

If he doesn't want children at all and you do, this is a major problem that needs to be sorted through with a marriage counselor. Are you guys in counseling? I can't remember. If not, I would not delay another moment.

~ Snow

Believer,

thank you for your reply. who said i want to find another man to live out my 'dreams' with? i am not searching for the perfect man, and i am not looking elsewhere at this point for a replacement for my H.
i want these things with my H. if i didn't i wouldn't be hurting so bad. yes maybe i am 'dreaming'! maybe i am dreaming of happily ever after for me and H. i am a needy person i admit. especially emotionally. i can support myself financially and i am not scared of being alone to fend for myself. but i do admit that i have emotional needs that i hope my H would fill.

i do have friends, i do go out and i am pretty active socially. i go to the gym 5 days a week and lift weights, i read alot and have some very good relationships with family and girlfriends.

i want somewhat of an 'american dream'. love, romance, family. that isn't too much to ask. be more emotionally 'connected' with my H. maybe i am fantasizing, i don't know.

i don't want to wait so long to have children. especially when the only excuse putting it off is money that we absolutely do have.

thanks for your input!

mrsx


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by believer:
<strong> Mrs. X - I have not replied to you before. But it seems to me you have latched onto the American fantasy - "They got married, and lived happily ever after."

I can tell you that while your WH is logical and unemotional, and you are unhappy, if you get a divorce, the next guy you get with might be:

1. Abusive
2. Lazy
3. A cheater
4. A liar
5. A compulsive spender
6. Divorced with 6 kids, & tons of child support

You got the point I hope. There are no guarantees. If you know very many married couples intimately, you will find that most have all kinds of problems, and all kinds of adjustments to make.

I would work on this marriage, and seek to meet some of my needs from other women, or activities.

Figure out one need that is most important to you and see if he will meet that. Otherwise, I see you going from one man to another, seeking them to meet all your needs. It will not happen. Then you will be too old to have a child, if that is what you truly want, and you may end up with someone worse than you have now.

I had my kids late. The first was at 35 and the second at 38. I was always waiting for the perfect man. Well, that guy just does not exist. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Mrsx,

I think you are too emotional right now and too 'in terms of him' to make a right decision. Just reading what you wrote and the phrase 'I wish he could tell me how he feels and not what he thinks'.

Do get that book.

mrsx...I'm so glad to see you back here but I'm so sorry that things aren't going well. You know I'm no expert by any means but it seems that you and h have reached a major crossroad in your marriage. These are issues that have been there all along but never really dealt with. Does h understand how important these issues are to you? The baby issue is HUGE!!! God knows if we all waited until we could afford to have children mankind would probably cease to exists!! T..talk to him about what's on your heart and let him know how serious this is.

This is a chance for you two to really open up to each other. He obviously has issues too that he uses the financial crutch to hide behind. I don't think he realizes the importance of these issues because I think he truly loves you. I can't help but think about that movie "When a man loves a woman". The H had to learn to let his alcoholic wife be independant. Not that your an alcoholic but there are some similar behavioral issues there to compare.

I want you to talk to me girl. I'm very upset that you haven't emailed me to talk. I'm just kidding. I understand the need to step back sometimes but please know that I'm your friend and I'm always here for you. God knows you have been there for me!!

Mrs X,
I was walking to my car thinking about your situation. I was tryning to put myself in his shoes.

It dawned on me that the following might be happening:

All men feel the importance of being "needed" You've desribed how your pre-A relationship was even an extreme case of you needing him and letting him "run the show". It sounds as though you've turned yourself into a very independent, self-supporting, independent woman ie "you don't need him anymore."

This combined with the fall out of the affair whether he admits it or not is a pretty severe blow.

I said earlier that I acted similar to your H early in my marriage. I got all of my feelings of being needed from my economic success. I thought that's what women wanted. I never realized they wanted financial as well as emotional support.

Most men (except of course my W's OM- damn him) aren't very good at the emotional support stuff.

Your H turning everything into a financial decision is hiding behind this as a way of showing you/ proving to you that you still need him.

Again Men from Mars....Venus discusses these issues.

That book along with His Needs Her Needs should be required reading in every high school in the country.

cwmac

MrsX,

First, it has NOT been very long since the A was over and d-day occurred. Less than 6 months right, give this time and have some patience with him. OK?

You said a few things I think warrent consideration.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> n the past (pre-A) i was so enamored by him, i worshipped him, i was grateful that he saved me and stuck by me through a lot of hard times. (i am still grateful). i felt guilty and like i owed him my life. i feel so differently now, he isn't the fantasy knight in shining armor, he isn't the dad that i never had, he isn't my 'god'. he is just H and i guess in my own sick way i am disappointed that those feelings and ideals are gone, and also scared that i don't know what to replace them with.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, this is a very honest thing to think, and yes perhaps even tell your H. You are saying you are finally growing up, you are finally seeing him as a human being. Now I have a different perspective on his humaeness (if there is such a word than you).

When I was a child my father was my idol, Probably true of must boys I guess. When I was a teenager, I realized he was human he made mistakes, had faults, and he and I did NOT see eye to eye. But, as I got into my 20's and 30's a new realization occured to me. I say how he had taken care of my mother all of the years. How all of us kids had been provided for. How I knew when I had a question, he would do his best to answer it, without trying to force the final answer to how he would have done it. I then met many of his old friends from various wars, and I learned more about the man I called my father.

What I learned was that he was a far better human being than I ever realized, not because he was a "superman", but because he was human, he made mistakes but he always tried to do the right thing.

When I hear what you say about your H, and then you ask </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he is just H and i guess in my own sick way i am disappointed that those feelings and ideals are gone, and also scared that i don't know what to replace them with. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think to myself "she should replace those feelings and ideals with one thing: he is a human being who had tried to do the best for me."

MrsX, it is ALL he could ever do is the best for you and he has. He has forgiven you alot, not just your A isn't that so. You have grown and you no longer "NEED" him right? Well, you may not NEED him but you will have a hard time replacing what he has provided. He did NOT use you, he gave to you, he has forgiven you. You replace "hero worship" with a very simple thing and the thing he really needs "admiration". That is what you should do. Admire him.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i know he has acted out of love for me as well as to fulfill the need of being needed. i know he loves me and yes i love him...

i feel so empty inside...i feel so detached from him...and at the same time i revel in my newly forming independence...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are NOT independent so much as you are finally growing up. Most adults can survive many things even being alone. But, that does not mean you should. Your H is still recoverying and he fears you do NOT appreciate his fears. Let me offer you some ideas what he may fear most.

1. He fears you do not love him.

2. He fears he is NOT a good enough husband.

3. He fears you doing this again.

4. He fears he will fail you and his children.

The first 3 are pretty obvious, but #4 is something I don't think you truely grasp. Most men, myself included, define ourselves by how well we take care of our family (W and children). That translates into finacially taking care of them for the most part. Hence your H focuses on being there financially for you, and if I remember correctly you have enjoyed spending his money right?

So now you are talking about children. You want them, he says the time is not right. Let's talk about this for a second. You are only 6 months into recovery. You post that you are NOT happy with him, you don't know how to view him, and you are NOT close to him. Don't you think he knows this??? Of course he knows how you feel. He may not TALK about feelings but he has them and he is very very sensitive right now. He is thinking there is NO WAY on God's Green Earth I want to bring a child into this mess right now. You know what, I would be thinking the same thing. A year out, perhaps. Six months, no way in h**l. Further he fears this child you want so desperately is to sooth you, not just because you want to perpetuate the species.

So my question to you is WHAT are you thinking?

Next, let's say things are going along well. You figure out how to fit him into your heart as a mere human being, and you start to actually love him not use him. Then he will still be like most of us males, worried to death about supporting the child or children.

I will tell you quite honestly when I was told each time (3 in all ) that I was going to be a father, the 1st thought that went through my head was will I be able to provide for them and give them the educations they will need. How will I do this? It is scary and the costs keep going up. But you will notice I do have three children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I got over it, and now I have two in college and one a year away from college.

You want to know what I am worried about now?? I am worried that I won't be able to take care of my W as well as I want to when I retire. I wake up at night worrying about this. My W is NOT a spendthrift, but she doesn't worry about these things, I guess because I do. I am old enough that I no longer worrying about dying prematurely and leaving her distitute. But, I want to really enjoy our retirement.

My point, your H's comments about finances is NOT as heartless as you think. He is thinking about you, he is thinking about children and taking care of them, and that means financially and in a stable home. You should be happy he thinks this way. Yet you view it as him NOT caring or loving you. Wrong answer MrsX.

I find it interesting that you talk about being independent and then talk about having children. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You don't seem to realize that when you have children your life is NO LONGER YOUR OWN. They will depend on you, and that means you are no longer independent. You must take care of them.

You need to view this much differently in my humble opinion and you need to talk to your H about this. The fact that you don't need him to be "superman" taking care of you, is a GOOD THING. He will be happy to share a life with a woman that "has his back and is not just a basket case." He needs to know of your growth, your new view of his a just human. I can assure you he views himself much lower than that right now.

MrsX, you growing, and seeing him for who he is, is a wonderful thing that you should share with him. His concerns are valid and normal given where you are in your marriage and your life. He will never "be ready" to have a child (I can tell you that from experience. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ), but he will be ready to consider in a year or so. He will need to be persuaded as I was <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , and he will do his best to be a good father, as he has to be a good H. He needs his confidence restored that is all. He is very likely worried about the responsibility, and he fears he has NOT been good enough for you.

Your discussions with him seemed to gone in the wrong direction in my humble opinion. You focused on what you felt was the negative, and a future neither of you can foresee. But, if you foresaw a future with him, if you two could plan, and discuss the plan, I think you would see that he has feelings, fears, and a lot of love to give.

If the discussions went as you described my guess is his defensive barriers came up. He needs to be persuaded that he can be a good father, that there is a way financially (discuss what he feels the burdens would be, college, clothes, food, new house, whatever, and problem solve with him).

But MrsX, I strongly feel that talking about children when YOU don't feel connect to your H, you are just coming off of an affair, and your H feels he failed as an H, is a bit premature. His opinions can and will change if you ever learn to see him for who he is, just a human being trying to do the best he can.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks snowbelle,

H said yesterday when we were walking in the park that he doesn't really want to have children. He would like to have a few dogs though. (What brought the conversation up was we were hiking behind a family: mom & dad in their 40's, 3 small children, 2 dogs. I mentioned that I always fantasize how that would be us some day soon. I asked him if he ever dreamed of that, too and he said no, not particularly)
I said to him maybe if he saw me pregnant with his child, and felt the baby's first kick in my stomach, he might think different. If he saw me give birth to his child and looked into the eyes of something that we created with love, maybe he would think different. He said he doubted that and I better not get pregnant 'accidentally'. He further elaborated on how expensive it is to have a child and we are in no position to do so, etc. etc.; again it came back to money, because I guess he really doesn't know *why* he doesn't want children, maybe he just doesn't and that's that.

I am wishing I could make him want what I want!

I see a marriage counselor every tuesday at 10pm. He knows the time and day of the appt. and somehow he is always swamped with work or hit with an emergency job every friggin tuesday night, i kid you not.

mrsx

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Snowbelle:
<strong> Hi Mrs. X,

Sorry things are so crummy right now.

The thing that stands out to me is that you say your husband does not want children. When you bring it up, he relates it back to finances.

So which is it? He wants children, but doesn't feel financially able to support them right now? Or, he doesn't want children at all. Period.

If he doesn't want children at all and you do, this is a major problem that needs to be sorted through with a marriage counselor. Are you guys in counseling? I can't remember. If not, I would not delay another moment.

~ Snow </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

JL,

Thank you so much. The child issue was the biggest issue we had pre-A. My therapist at the time thought it was a lost cause. I carried a lot of resentment around because of it.

You are right, this isn't the time to plan a family or consider children. I am not ready now as it is, but I did hope that H could give me some time frame as to if and when he would be ready to begin planning. I will hold off on any further discussions on this subject as you make an excellent point that there are more pressing issues at hand that need to be addressed first.

Thank you so much. I guess you're right, I am not giving him a chance to recover. It just would mean so much to me if he would just sit with me and tell me how he really feels inside. Maybe that will come in time?

We fight so much lately about things we don't agree on. So many things we talked about yesterday were scary because like I said, we have different goals and different ideas of what we see in our future.

Is it possible to meld our goals and to compromise? What can I say/do to help him open up to me and tell me how he feels.

I honestly feel like I am in limbo. He is back to the exact same H, same everything as he was pre-A. I really do expect him to at least try to find out what he can do to rebuild, not just work and come home and hang out and have a good time and not talk, not work on things, not connect with me on a more emotional level. Please please tell me if this is out of line....

Anyway H just got home from work. Gonna go hang w/him.

JL thank YOU!
All thank you, I will be back to read more and LEARN more later on tonight or tomorrow.

mrsx

MrsX,

Go hang with him, that is good.

Ok, you have had a discussion with him, you feel that you two don't see things the same way. That is good, so what should follow is a discussion of how to construct a win-win, but let him heal. When you talk with him understand he is discussing his feelings by discussing his obligations, his desires, etc. He is using a different language which is more protective. But you can get around this.

As for children, I don't recall previous discussions about children, but one thing most men "KNOW" is that when the child comes, they are moved to the back of the bus. He may need you and your love more than you realize, and he does NOT want to be the back of the bus when children come.

It is very normal for mothers to focus on their children and NOT their H. The thinking seems to be his a "big boy" he can take care of himself, but these little kids need me all of the time. Sound about right, well if it doesn't keep reading about the women whose H had an affair while pregnant or shortly after pregnancy. The idea the "he is a big boy and can take care of himself" is just stupid and leads to the H "taking care of himself alright" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

If you want to have children one of the things you should definitely talk about is how YOU are going t help keep the marriage alive, how you want to keep him at the forefront. MrsX, do you fly on airlines. Have you noticed that the tell parents or any passenger for that matter to put their oxygen masks on before helping another, that is because if you run out of air you cannot help someone.

Your H is sort of telling you this about the current state of the marriage, and he very likely fears this when/if you do have children. If you want healthy well adjusted kids, take care of your H. He will enjoy the kids more, help more, and love you more, IF he is NOT at the back of the bus while you are driving.

So give this time, learn to see him for who he is. I doubt he is trying to hurt you, but I am also sure he is protecting himself right now. You can overcome the wall, but it must be done with love and trust. Yes, you need to show that you trust him, odd isn't it.

MrsX, there is a long way to go, and having children is a very complex thing. Frankly I didn't care if I ever had children or not, but I am a very dedicated father.

Think about this.

God Bless,

JL