I have been married for over 15 years. My wife had a brief emotional affair with my best friend. My wife and I were with my best friend and his family quite often. Our children are very close.

I discovered the affair the same day that they first met in private. That was the only time that they met in private. Since then the affair has ended and my wife and I are very much in love. My friend made the decision to stay with his wife. After that decision was made my wife decided to stay with me.

I have several issues that need addressed that will help me bring closure to the affair and the future with my wife. I am having a hard time resolving the issues in my mind. It seems as if I am the one making all of the concessions to help my wife bring closure, in the process hurting my ability to bring closure. They are as follows:

1. Should we try to rebuild our relationship with my best friend and his wife? Our children ask about getting together with them quite often.

2. My wife called him while I was at work to help her bring some closure. Should I have a right to have been with her when she called him?

3. Should I have been a part of that phone conversation?

4. He apologized the night that the affair came out in the open. I saw it as an apology that he was taking my wife and told me that he loved me like a brother. Now that it is over between them should I expect him to ask me to forgive him and to apologize that it even happened and for what he has put me through and admit that it was wrong?

5. My wife kept a diary during the emotional week between the time I became aware of their feelings and the day that it ended (June 1). Do I have a right to see the diary?

6. My wife and friend told each other that they loved each other. Should I expect my wife to retract that statement to him? She had no problem telling me that she was not in love with me. This would help me bring closure.

7. Should I expect my wife to remove all reminders of him in our life? For example his sweatshirt that we still have.

<small>[ June 16, 2004, 06:22 AM: Message edited by: Hustle ]</small>

Hustle, first the you should stay away from this family. The relationship can die gradually so the kids can adjust so to say. But you really need to move on. Things happen and sometimes difficult decisions need to be made. But I really think it will eat at you if you try to remain friends. That makes this doubly hard but it may impress upon your W how much she has hurt you and make her a bit more diligent on repairing your M. If you roll over and accept it as not that big a deal you may get burned again. Speaking from experience. Lose the sweatshirt. Forget about taking back the I Love You's etc. Don't give the relationship too much credibility. But don't underestimate the message here either. You marriage is vulnerable for some reason. Explore that and learn from this. As you read here you'll see that you may have gotten off easy.

Hustle,

I am new here and going through some pain myself. Please look for a "second cord" to anything I might say.


<strong>1. Should we try to rebuild our relationship with my best friend and his wife?</strong>

Sorry. Think that would be a breach of no-contact, probably most important tenet to starting recovery on this site.

<strong>Should I have a right to have been with her when she called him?</strong>

I think you use the word "right" like I do. I know what you are saying, but "right" is not the best word. You have two rights: to stay and make it work, to leave.

My wife broke it off in a similar manner, seeking closure. I never heard one of their phone calls and gave her the privacy to break it off when she asked. Guess what? She broke it off over and over again. We were new to MB and not aware of the NC letter. The WRONG reason to want to hear that phone call is pry into her emotional state. You have plenty of glimpses of that coming and they all hurt. The RIGHT reason is when she says "No More" in front of you, it adds a level of accountability to her. Explain that to her. Bottom line, if she can't do that for you, she is chosing him over you. And she may for some time. But she will choose you. If you force her, what have you gained but the demonstration that you can force her to do something? She has to WANT to, and she SHOULD.

<strong>3. Should I have been a part of that phone conversation?</strong>

Boy, I sure would like to. I could tell my WWs OM plenty - things like you're not fit to drink my toilet water. Sure would feel good. He sure would deserve it. But stop and think. What kind of man would I be? I am not hurtful by nature. What would it accomplish? Heck, the OM might take it as a challenge to try and get to the wife again. (Easier for them to do than either you or I would want to believe). Hear the conversation? Yes. Participate? Definate no-no. Odds are you will get angry with what is said. If your wife is really going to end it, she needs to COME CLEAN about what went on or you will get a nasty suprise. Listen, all of this is easier if she writes the NC *LETTER* that you approve. MUCH MUCH MUCH better than the phone call. In fact, I retract all I said about the phone call in the first place.

<strong>should I expect him to ask me to forgive him and to aplogize that it even happened and for what he has put me through and admit that it was wrong?</strong>

This point is moot. When you do something wrong and are repentent and apologize, you are doing that for yourself. When you are wronged and you forgive someone, that too is for yourself. When we wrong, we apologize (sincerely) to clear our consciences (sp?) and get on with life, hopefully learning something. When we give forgiveness, it is kind of the same thing. I forgave my WW for ME. So it would not eat me up. Count your blessings - at least the OM in your relationship sounds like he has some remorse.

<strong>
5. Do I have a right to see the diary?
</strong>

Tough one. I am not sure, but I am too trusting by nature. The materials on this site that are not these threads (EXCELLENT, READ THEM) talk about "radical honesty" and that she should not have a problem with you reading it. If she is properly sharing her feelings with her soul mate, what would she have to hide? Fundamentally I agree, but I am too mired in my own pain to comment on snooping. I do feel that it would be better if she WANTED to. I do think you should be ready for some hurt when she does. Others will have to comment about looking without her permission.

<strong>6. My wife and friend told each other that they loved each other. Should I expect my wife to retract that statement to him?</strong>

Sorry to bust your chops on this one. No. I have learned the hard way that the EXPECT word is bad bad bad. Stop and ask yourself what do you want:

Vengence, payback and retribution? Then take the EXPECT road.

or a Loving, Devoted Wife? Then find your servant's heart, forgive and understand.

Yes, she made a mistake. It was SELFISH, HORRIBLE, AND IT HURT YOU. I am there too. There was NO EXCUSE FOR IT. NOT ONE. But guess what, it happened, didn't it? Strangely, as the BS it almost seems like YOU must suck everything up and SHE gets away with it. But for whatever reason, you need to win her heart back. Personally haven't seen this part in my own situation yet, but from what I read here, a FWW is usually 10x the wife she was before. How 'bout it ladies, can I get a witness?

<strong>7. Should I expect my wife to remove all reminders of him in our life? For example his sweatshirt that we still have. </strong>

These are the "triggers" the material on the site talks about. I am currently struggling greatly with my WW over them. Touchy, touchy. Your wife is probably pretty raw, emotionally. Yeah, if she has a shred of compassion for things that hurt you, she should give up any triggers without question. Eventually, she probably will. You must be the strong one. She is not thinking clearly. During this withdrawl period for her I would say this.

Unless this trigger item stirs such strong feelings for you that it shuts you down to where you cannot take care of the kids, etc, I would not push the issue until she is stronger. HOWEVER, if it is a trigger item for HER - meaning associates the affair in a positive way, makes her pine for the contact, etc (notice, not your trigger, her trigger) its got to go. As part of NO CONTACT.

Hope this helps. Helped me to write it.

NCW

NcWalker,

Don't you feel an apology from my former best friend for the pain he caused would help me bring closure? It certainly would make me feel much better. He has not apolgized for the pain that he has caused, only for taking my wife. Thank heavens that he was not successful.

My wife and I have said many apologizes to one another and are well on our way to correcting our wrongs.

1. Should we try to rebuild our relationship with my best friend and his wife? Our children ask about getting together with them quite often.

No. Too risky. The A could fire up again... even years down the road. End of friendship. This is the cost of this particular type of affair.

2. My wife called him while I was at work to help her bring some closure. Should I have a right to have been with her when she called him?

This is why the friendship must end.

Your wife mistreated you again when she called him for "closure".

There is no such thing as "closure". Closure is not one single event that then closes off all feelings of longing or regret.

Better to turn away from this relationship and walk away. The "closure" comes like the disappearance of the distant horizon ... it gets smaller and further away slowly until it is gone completely.

3. Should I have been a part of that phone conversation?

Yes, but too late now.

Walk away from this man and his family.

4. He apologized the night that the affair came out in the open. I saw it as an apology that he was taking my wife and told me that he loved me like a brother. Now that it is over between them should I expect him to ask me to forgive him and to aplogize that it even happened and for what he has put me through and admit that it was wrong?

My H had an affair with his life-long friend's wife.

There is no "love like a brother" here. Love does not spit in your face the way the OM did.

Forgive him? Sure. But close the friendship forever. It's over.

He screwed your wife and did great damage to you and your kids and his own family as well.... the consequence for this is the loss of the friendship.

5. My wife kept a diary during the emotional week between the time I became aware of their feelings and the day that it ended (June 1). Do I have a right to see the diary?

Ask her when does she think she will be able to share herself with you, including her diary.

There is no "right" .... there is a request.

Beware... the diary likely contains stuff that will rip your guts out.

Are you sure you don't want to burn it together?

6. My wife and friend told each other that they loved each other. Should I expect my wife to retract that statement to him? She had no problem telling me that she was not in love with me.

You cannot "expect". You can hope.

My H and OW also spoke "love you till the day I die" ... and "nomatter what happends you will always be in my heart"...

We are 8 years in recovery ... looking back, it was infatuation, not love between them.

Your wife is not ready to be open and fully intimate with you.

Time and patience.

7. Should I expect my wife to remove all reminders of him in our life? For example his sweatshirt that we still have.

Why not?

Ask... do not "expect".

Tell her the sweatshirt is a painful reminder of her unfaithfullness. Ask her if she understands how much you want her to toss the sweatshirt out.

Time and patience.

Read the entire site. Not just the discussion forum.

Pep

1. Should we try to rebuild our relationship with my best friend and his wife? Our children ask about getting together with them quite often.


Unfortunately, you cannot go on with being friends with this family. how old are your kids? It is not possible to continue being friends with this man after your wife has had an affair with him. it will only trigger emotions and you will never be able to restore your marriage.

2. My wife called him while I was at work to help her bring some closure. Should I have a right to have been with her when she called him?

well, she should never have calle dhim in the first place. If they had closrue before, then she should never speak to him again. Has she sent a NC letter? If not, she needs to ASAP!

3. Should I have been a part of that phone conversation?


Whether you should have been apart of that conversation is not the issue. the issue is she ocntacted him and should not have!

4. He apologized the night that the affair came out in the open. I saw it as an apology that he was taking my wife and told me that he loved me like a brother. Now that it is over between them should I expect him to ask me to forgive him and to aplogize that it even happened and for what he has put me through and admit that it was wrong?


Well, if you never see or speak to him again, you wont have to worry about this. Dont expect anything from the OM.

5. My wife kept a diary during the emotional week between the time I became aware of their feelings and the day that it ended (June 1). Do I have a right to see the diary?


Absolutely you should see this diary. Everything should be in the open now. But you have to prepare yourself for some things you may not want to read. She should also answer any and all questions you have regarding the Affair. No more secrets.

6. My wife and friend told each other that they loved each other. Should I expect my wife to retract that statement to him? She had no problem telling me that she was not in love with me.


How can you retract a statement that you ahve already said? No, you should not ask her to retract that statement. That is all fog talk.

7. Should I expect my wife to remove all reminders of him in our life? For example his sweatshirt that we still have.

Yes, just throw the sweatshirt in the trash can. No need to return it.

Just remember you cannto start recovery if there is still contact with the OM. Your friendship is over with him.

<small>[ June 15, 2004, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: momto3boys ]</small>

Sorry, double post

<small>[ June 17, 2004, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

1. Should we try to rebuild our relationship with my best friend and his wife? Our children ask about getting together with them quite often.
No, you & your W should have no contact with this people.

2. My wife called him while I was at work to help her bring some closure. Should I have a right to have been with her when she called him?
Yes, you have.

3. Should I have been a part of that phone conversation?
Yes, you should.

4. He apologized the night that the affair came out in the open. I saw it as an apology that he was taking my wife and told me that he loved me like a brother. Now that it is over between them should I expect him to ask me to forgive him and to aplogize that it even happened and for what he has put me through and admit that it was wrong?
You can’t force him to admit this and you can’t force him to apologize and ask you for forgiveness. He must do it out of his own, otherwise it’s not sincere…

5. My wife kept a diary during the emotional week between the time I became aware of their feelings and the day that it ended (June 1). Do I have a right to see the diary?
You can request her to show it to you and be open and honest towards you…

6. My wife and friend told each other that they loved each other. Should I expect my wife to retract that statement to him? She had no problem telling me that she was not in love with me.
I don’t think this is a good idea… Let bygones be bygones. Your W must have NO CONTACT with him.

7. Should I expect my wife to remove all reminders of him in our life? For example his sweatshirt that we still have.
Yes, I think you can expect that. Ask her to get rid of those things.

8. Don't you feel an apology from my former best friend for the pain he caused would help me bring closure?
Yes, it certainly would… It’s easier to forgive and work through the pain if you receive a sincere apology from the person who hurt you… If you really feel strong about this, you can write him a NC and ‘closure’ letter and explain to him exactly how you feel and how much he have hurt you. All you can do then is to hope God will work in his heart to give you a sincere apology… But as I’ve said, you can’t force it.

Hustle,

Of course I thing the man who almost stole your wife owes you an apology. But he must give it, or it is meaningless.

I sometimes handle difficult emotional situations by transferring the problem to my children in a hypothetical example. Then as their father I get to play God, hypothetically.

Consider - my two sons love video games. Son 1 is playing a game, but not really into it. He leaves to go to the bathroom. Son 2 comes in and takes over the controller while S1 is away. (Kind of like the affair, you are S1, your friend S2, your wife the game).

S1 comes back to find his game in "someone else's hands" and the fight starts. The ruckus brings me in, and I stop the fight. S1 entreaties an angry plea to me to make S2 apologize. I can force S2 to do so, but if he doesn't WANT to, S1 is going to get a really spiteful, sullen, don't-really-mean-it kind of apology.

What will S1 think? Will he think S2 meant it? No. I can make S2 apologize all day long, but CAN'T make him mean it.

You can ask God to put an apology on the OMs heart. But you can't force it - as a condition of the family friendship continuing (it shouldn't anyway).

All you can do is be graceful if he willingly offers it. Only then will it mean something.

Don't get me wrong, you do deserve one, you definately want one. I know I feel the same way. But remember, God has only promised to meet your needs - remember the parable about the birds where God says I feed and care for them, how much more you considering your worth to me (something like that). You only NEED to forgive the guy, otherwise it will EAT YOU ALIVE. If he doesn't apologize, HE has bear that BURDEN. How many movies do you see where somebody dies and someone left alive is saying something like "I never got to make it right" and feels terrible about it? This OM will have that burden (if he comes to realize his sin, if he doesn't, God WILL take care of that).

Don't you have the burden of holding the grudge, let it go, it's just not worth it. What is is fighting for your wife's heart. I just really p*ssed off mine a minute ago. STUPID ME. But the point is, THAT is hard enough to do under the circumstances.

Understand?

NCW

NCWalker,
In regards to retraction of the "I love you" statement I am not looking for vengence, payback, or retribution. I simply need that for closure. I have been very respectful and kind-hearted through out this whole process.

Pepperband,
I wanted to make it clear that he did not screw my wife. I don't think that changes any of my feelings though. I just thought that I would let you know.

<small>[ June 16, 2004, 06:46 AM: Message edited by: Hustle ]</small>

Hustle-

My W had an EA with our very close friend. He is a minister. This hurt unbelieveably. When I found out I confronted him, in person, and when I told him what I knew, he immediately apologized and stopped all contact with my W. The apology helped, but it came from him. That's the only way you can have a meaningful apology.

My W has also apologized to his wife. His W forgave my W and now wants to be friends again. This was hard since OM's W is a great person. Our MC said doing so now was not wise. Her quote was, "When in recovery from alcoholism, you don't hang around the bartender." I agree. So does my W. We have both agreed to look at the issue in a couple of years. Not before. This was a nonconfrontational way of getting past the issue and continuing recovery.

My experience, Plan A works. The apology, the retraction, etc. that you want- work on your marriage first, show your W how great things are and will be, and then see how important those other things are.

This is tough, but on one hand feel grateful you discovered the EA before it became physical. Many others here have not been as fortunate. You have a lot to work with here, don't forget that.

These are just my thoughts. I hope they help.

Regards

Hustle,

Understand the need for closure. But be careful the source. If you want your wife to retract her statement, that is fine. We all have idiosycracies about what we want to make an A better.

I am right here in this with you now and learning the hard way what works and what doesn't.

Words like EXPECT and RIGHTS are bad words. IMHO I would let your wife know that a retraction of that statement would help you in your pain, but that she should only make it when she is ready to make it. (I would NOT have her contact the OM to tell him she takes it back, NC breach is BIGGEST stumbling block to recovery). If you want her to say "Honey, I am sorry I told him I loved him, I don't and only love you" or something like that, it is fine. Ask her. Then drop it. No "why can't you do it right now?" or that kind of stuff. She may not be able to now and the reason might hurt. Not fair, I know, but reality.

If you have gently let her know it is something that would help, that is the BEST thing to do. If you pester her about it, she probably will react negatively and strengthen her resolve to withhold it.

You sound like a good dad. You sound like you have a good marriage as the A didn't go very far. Sounds like you and the wife communicate. Have you read the other materials on the site? The threads are great, but you got to eat the meat to or you won't know what half of us are talking about.

Take your skills as a good dad and use them: here is a situation you want advice on. TRANSFER this situation to your children - obviously not an affair, but you have seen your kids interact enough to imagine a problem with a similar dynamic - one wronged, the other not thinking one wronged, take something back, etc.

USE YOUR GOOD DAD SKILLS - as the good dad, you have to step in and resolve this situation your "kids" are having. What would you do? What would you say? Remember - you CAN force your kids to do things and what do you get? Surly attitude and resentment. As a good dad, you solve the problem in a way that SEEKS PEACE, WISDOM, AND UNDERSTANDING. Solve this hypothetical problem with the kids in your own mind, then step back and take your own advice.

Write back and let me know what you come up with.

Last word: closure. Blech. I don't like that word - it is tossed around in todays society like it means something. "I needed CLOSURE with ..." What the heck is that? Don't like it and here is why. Don't mean to offend, ponder what I say and let me know how YOU feel. Our differing opinions is the energy that keeps us growing.

Closure is bad because...
It implies that my emotional state (NOT a reaction, like a smile, but a STATE like joyfulness) or my internal feelings about an event are either partially or wholly in the hands of another individual. This other individual may or may not have my best interests at heart. If I can assign (or in the negative sense, blame) another individual with such power that they can effect my mind or my soul to CAUSE me to feel a certain way, that's giving them a little more power over my own self than I am willing to admit. I am in charge of me, no one else.

Don't get me wrong, other individuals may AID or IMPAIR the way I feel, but CAUSE it? I don't like to think I am at the "mercy of the winds" so to speak.

Do you WANT closure, or do you NEED closure?

I am in it like you are right now, and believe me, I need to take my own medicine more often than not. But I do know this - I NEED to keep my personal integrity intact. I NEED to do my best for my wife. I NEED to do my best for my 3DS. I WANT that in return from my wife. It is not easy, but I can (and eventually will) choose to be happy with my M again.

NCWalker,
I have read the material on this site and find it to be most helpful.

My wife and I had a great night last night. Once I can find closure everything will be fine. She is really doing great. She is an awsome mother and wife. She just made one mistake and I have forgiven her.

<small>[ June 17, 2004, 06:16 AM: Message edited by: Hustle ]</small>

Stick with us and we will help you through this. You can have a much better marriage than before the incident.

As you read more here, you will see how easily these things happen. That may help you with closure, when you can look at it more clearly.

TTT

I want to give an update to my situation. We had several events scheduled with OM and his family. Two concerts and a vacation. We have taken the tickets to one of the concerts and they (the other family) have taken the tickets to the other concert.

The vacation is another matter. My children, especially my son wanted this vacation with them more than anything. We have been trying to work out a compromise with the OM and his family. We have proposed an overlapping vacation where we would take their children with us and stay four nights. The other family would stay with the kids the last four nights. Therefore, we would overlap one night at the condo. I am comfortable with this and want this for my children.

We sent them a note Thur. night letting them know that we were disapointed about them not being willing to work with us on this compromise.
The OM wife called last night to chat about the letter. Unfornanately I may have blown it by being brutally honest with her about my lack of comfort of being around her husband (the OM). My wife was very upset with me saying that I may have blown it. She (spouse of OM), also, told me that her husband is not comfortable being around my wife.

One of the main reasons that I have not been comfortable with him is the fact that he is/was willing to screw my son over. It has created a disire not to talk to him when we see him out. My comfort level with him would increase if he were willing to do this for my son. Should I call her and explain to her why I am not comfortable and this may help solve the lack of comfort?

Replies please, I need help.

<small>[ June 22, 2004, 07:32 AM: Message edited by: Hustle ]</small>

It will be better for your marriage if you get this couple completely out of your lives. Yes, it will hurt your son, but you need to do it.

Find somewhere else your son would like to go, and do that instead. If your son is old enough, you may have to give him an explanation.

Hey there. This same thing happened in our lives. FWH's OW was my supposed "best friend." She is single, but our kids really enjoyed us all doing things together.

OW's S is also in FWH's Scout patrol. I think they are quitting, though.

It is so sad, but necessary. Choices have been made, things have happened, and once those boundaries have been crossed over, there really is no turning back.

For recovery, the families must part. And the children will probably suffer the most. Mine sure have. BUT, they are children, life goes on, and find them some new stuff to do.

If you look at where this will be in a year, perhaps you won't feel so saddened. In a year, your kids might talk about them occassionally, but they will move on. Just as you will.

Figure out the logistics with these people to maintain NC, and focus back in on your own M. Doesn't matter how brief the A was, your pain will surface just as much as the next BS, and you will be riding the infamous rollercoaster that is recovery. No matter what, you will have bumps and scares and hurtles to cross over.

I do suggest MC, as I think it greatly speeds up recovery. Take care of yourself!

SS