|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 42
Member
|
Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 42 |
Without knowing what is actually transpiring in the relationship, I would have to agree, Java. Committing another sin wouldn't solve anything....But, if the new husband is waffling or exhibiting fog like behavior due to his wanting to be with the BS...err, I'm not so sure. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,736
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 5,736 |
If she did make a covenant before God regarding this marriage, then she would be breaking yet another covenant.
I don't know if the marriage was a covenant marriage before God, however, I suspect it was because she mentions talking to her pastor.
I don't know the answer, and I struggle with the whole thought of re-marriage and I'm not even divorced yet. (And hope that my WW decides that she doesn't want the divorce she has put into motion.)
There is an argument, a school of thought that re-marriage can only occur if the spouse has passed away. That the adultery mentioned in Christian Scripture only refers to pre-marital issues and that once the marriage is consummated, then it is until death do you part.
God is pretty clear in Malachi that he hates divorce. So, I suspect God would be even more upset with more divorces. However, I'm not God, so I really shouldn't presume to speak for Him. It's just a feeling I have that he would not want this couple to divorce.
But, honestly, you have to ask God that question, and then check the answers you get against His Holy Word.
I say that because my WW says God tells her it is ok for her to divorce because she feels we forced His hand and married against the will of God.
Just my opinion, I reserve the right to be wrong.
Tony
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,380
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,380 |
This is why,IMO,that trying to better "understand","learn from" or "see their side" etc from an OP is fruitless.We know why they do what they do and we know who it harms.
"Providing a perspective" is not something I need to hear from an OP.Nor will any apologies after the fact be of use unless YOU ARE ENDING THE ADULTERY WITH A MARRIED MAN.The damage is done and a marriage was destroyed.The issues are between the husband and the wife.The OP is being used to fill the voids and replace the problems that should be worked upon within the marriage NOT outside of it.
It is no secret that we welcome those people(OP's) who are here,looking for support to end the affair and this includes all manner of WS's.But,you are not here for that and in a sick sense,are in your own fog or whatever you want to call it,by thinking that this man,your husband,will not cheat on you too(you trust him) and that his former wife,wasn't completely destroyed by you being involved with her husband and perhaps had to D him to because she saw no other alternative.
Statistics prove that you have a very poor chance of being married to this man for years to come.And it is just, being how the relationship was born.Out of selfishness,greed,pain and deceit.
And,it wasn't mentioned if he had children with his previous wife or wives,but that of course makes this tragedy even worse.
Lastly,regarding the mugging scenario.Any crime/action against another that results in pain,loss,trauma,abuse should be treated accordingly.Unfortunately,we no longer have laws,in most states now,that prevent Adultery from being rightly punishable.
Physical or emotional crimes are usually inter-related as is the case with Adultery IMO.My WH's adultery caused me tremendous emotional pain and scarring but the physical effects were just as damaging: loss of weight(20 lbs),loss of sleep(3 weeks lead to hallucinations),collapsed at a restaurant from exhaustion,jaw pain(from teeth grinding),depression(taking antidepressants now) and so on.
Now,what is the point you are trying to get across here?
O
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 101
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 101 |
I don't believe that I was trying to make a
specific point. I was attempting to learn and
share.
I don't share you view that my marriage is tainted or doomed. The affair was wrong- but
I don't think that everything that comes from it
has to be.
I thought this place was bout building marriages.
Are you the judge on what marriages are right
and what marriages are wrong?
And if adultry was a crime punishable like other
crimes- would you like to see your spouse
convicted or only the OP?
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,909
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,909 |
Would someone please explain how breaking her marriage vows NOW would restore her integrity. I know of NO pastor, rabbi, priest that would say such a thing.
Yes, paige should own her stuff... and it sounds like she does. Yes, her marriage started out as an affair and it is something that will cause pain in our hearts when we hear of such...
BUT... she is no longer in an affair. She is married... and as such we should be helping her become whole... not beating her up for her past.
Who among us is free and clear of sin? Who among us has not made a host of errors they regret.
Maybe we should have walked away from our marriages and made ourselves whole and started all over again. 'cause NO ONE is EVER a whole, completely healthy person.
I don't and will not ever believe that affairs are a good thing... a healthy thing... but when it is over... it's over... why the need to continue to beat her up?
Would we do this to our spouse who returned to us? Continue to make them prove they had learned and were now different?
Jesus said to the woman @ the well... "go forth and sin no more." There was nothing about wearing a big scarlet A and sack cloth and ashes. No pound of flesh.
I'm sorry... I'm just amazed at the antipathy I have seen here lately.
We cannot be whole ourselves if we do not rid ourselves of the bitterness of what happened and the arrogance of one wronged who now believes himself/herself now better than...
Cali
I am not advocating FOR affairs, but FOR marriage.
<small>[ June 15, 2004, 10:03 PM: Message edited by: Cali ]</small>
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996 |
Cali, I agree 100%.
This marriage matters. I would love to see this M thrive.
Pink... here is my concern...
When you were the OW, you had to compromise your integrity and values ~in order to have~ the affair.
And you have deleloped the OW mind-set.
Squishy boundaries and wobbley moral code kept you in your affair but have NO place in your marriage.
NOW ~~~~~~~~ you are no longer the OW ...
YOU are the WIFE ...
The things that served you well as the OW ... your defense mechanisms that DISabled your integrity ... will sabotage your marriage.
In order to permit yourself to foul up another's marriage... you had to devalue marriage...
and now you are married... see the problem?
The little sound bites you feed the OW on TOW may work there...
but, guess what?
Those same values are anti-marriage.
Your justifications about how you got married weaken your marriage.
Dump those values if you want a great marriage.
Your mind-set needs to be re-arranged. YOU are a WIFE... STOP making OW-like excuses.
Thnaks for listening.
Pep
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996 |
Originally posted by The Pink Paige:
Pepperband- my husband married me for the same
reason your spouse married you- because they
loved you with the best of intentions. I'm sure
your spouse still believes in marriage even
though they faltered- don't define him/her or
even yourself by this one mistake.
Pink...
Our vows were not the result of any adultery. We entered marriage with our values intact.
Mr. Pep lost his way 14 years into our marriage.
He has restored his integrity, found his moral compass.
Mr. Pep would find troubling your current lack of healthy marriage values. As I do.
Pink, it is not your ~past~ that bothers me ... it is your present OW mentality ....
it will not serve you well.
I am really sorry your thread has gotten so wild and insulting .... sorry, really. it's too bad, but you are hearing the raw hurt of women who have been DEEPLY hurt ... and you come here wearing the wrong ideology.
I hope the outpouring of anger does not defeat any progress we might have made toward helping you get into a place where you are a wife-minded woman instead of stuck in your OW thought processes.
Please take care.
Pep
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 115
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 115 |
I don't usually get involved in threads of this nature, but really feel I have to comment, just once.
The only problem I have with pink is her apparent fake expressions of regret and remorse.
If a person can say that given the chance, they would do it all over again, they are effectively saying they have no regret or remorse. What I'm hearing is, that since it all turned out OK for HER, what's to regret?
I wonder how understanding she would be, if another OW wanted her husband sooo much, that nothing and no-one else mattered. Would she find that scenario all OK and fair enough?
It does seem, that in her eyes, the ends justify the means. This site is not built for that mentality.
I'm sorry pink. I hope you make the best of your marriage and never have to experience being the victim of another's 'whatever makes ME happy' attitude.
I do hope you stick around though and open your heart and mind to all the posters here (BS or WS), who are trying their hardest to be the best they can be, in the worst circumstances they are ever likely to live through.
Perhaps you will learn the real meaning of remorse and regret and resolve to live your life with a less selfish attitude.
Marriage can be VERY tough and selfishness is one of it's biggest enemies.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 42
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 42 |
excellent post, Horizon. Very well said.
I, too, echo the sentiments that I hope you (Pink) continue to post. Keep an open mind and continue to ask questions. You will gain entirely different perspective--even if you don't agree with it.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 7,093
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 7,093 |
I think everyone replying on this thread is doing a great job (for lack of a better way to say it).
If they are not helping Pink Paige, they are definately giving me a lot to think about it. This is the kind of honesty I was looking for when I came here.
Pepper - I must have been thinking about what you said in my sleep (about the OW mentality) because this AM when I read more of you replies I finally GOT it. Hope you are around to splash cold water in my face if I get married!
Paige - sorry about hijacking - just thinking about myself AGAIN. gotta quit that
Weaver
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,380
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 3,380 |
Pink,
In regards to your last post to me.Statistics that we are aware of here regarding marriages born from Infidelity have a very slim chance of working,about 3%-5% and of those marriages many fail.And,this doesn't include the fact that this man has already been married twice before.So it's not just my personal opinion but what many of us have read.I am not a judge but just giving my opinion based on my experiences.
I have eluded to this before,I cannot agree and be happy for you that you are now married.It is the way in which the marriage was obtained that I just have a big problem with.I don't think ending your current marriage is the solution,it's a done deal so you have to live with that.You should have walked away the MOMENT you knew the man was married,plain and simple.It is a very basic case of right versus wrong.I cannot fathom knowing a man is married and getting involved anyway.
I think Adultery should be punishable by law IF it results in a divorce.This might include monetary damages such as a case in North Carolina that we talked about fairly recently.I really think it might make people think twice about entering into an adulterous relationship which may result in the demise of a marriage and family unit.The divorce rate in this country has stabilized at 50% at it sickens me.
Until we educate the public more,specifically couples and young adults about marriage,this rate will not decline.People will keep jumping from one relationship to the next thinking that switching partners is the answer to all the problems in a marriage.
I am just here to say that no,I don't agree with your actions in the past and why you are here on a Marriage Builders site.Yes you are married,but I highly doubt,again just my opinion,that many of us BS's would welcome the OP here if they were now the current spouse of our WS's.I know I wouldn't.
How hypocritical is that? You help to destroy one marriage to obtain the very same.
O
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906 |
Ok ... Paige here's some things i just wanted to address..... in your very first post...you question about the fog.... and I just wanted to take a moment on sort of clarifying that term.. first of all it is just that a term...a lable... that applies to typically cake-eaters (WS) that string along multiple people in a triangle.. typically the BS (betrayed spouse) AND the OP (other person).... it is a term used to describe things that the WS says that clearly are illogical or stupid...and even if we wanted to get technical...INSANE <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> things like... Ws says to spouse..."I just don't understand why you and my OP can't get along and be friends..!!!!" WS says...."but I love BOTH of YOU" etc... the term fog does not deny the existance of feelings... or deny the WS's BELIEF that these feelings are ENOUGH to justify all actions... cause they aren't... really fogged up WS...can't understand why their spouses aren't "happy" that they have found happiness with someone else... that thought process is not logical.... BS never HAVE to be happy about it... AND note the marriage builders itself exists solely based on a marraige therapist who in years of practice..saw couple after couple that had infidelity as an issue....and WANTED to work it out...and fix it.. so he came up with a road map so to speak.... and walla....this site... this does not mean by a long shot that all marriages should be saved... This site doesn't deal a lot with people who have an affair...hit the road and don't look back..and go off with their OP.. this site is mostly about cake-eaters and people who aren't "sure" what they want.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> that's the majority that are here....and much strength to those that are just left...BUT that type of pain though swift...atleast has some finality that assists the BS to move on... woes to the BS continually subjected to false recoveries and continual years of lies..... but in the end ...all of it hurts... BUT I question why you question us about the fog term...when it doesn't apply to you...as your husband made his choice. cut his ties. and is with you... so why now do you question or ask about the fog... what is going on in your MARRIAGE that makes you think of the fog.... AND what else is not clear is what are the issues in your MARRIAGE that have you in counseling.... I can't see where that is clear.... so perhaps if you clarify what is not quite "right" in your marriage.... people can focus on what can be done to fix it.. ark......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 101
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 101 |
ark^^,
too funny, I was postin to you on another
string.
I don't think I have a specific problem in my
M- between me and H. The counseling I am
involved in is two fold- after marriage counseling,
that our parish provides- to just work on establishing a healthy marriage- focusing on
people newly married and my own individual
counseling- which is where I focus more of my
guilt and intergrity issues. I'm here to learn
and work for a successful marriage.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906
Member
|
|
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 5,906 |
what guilt and integrity issues do you have now..
and what does your husband say about these things.
ark
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 101
Member
|
|
OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 101 |
ark^^,
You'd have to fortify yourself- but reading
through my posts on this thread would probably
give you an idea.
My H is not particularly religious- but he goes
to these things out of respect for me. I don't
discuss my guilt and intergrity issues anymore.
He knows how I feel and why I feel that way.
I know that he felt and feels guilt- that he
should have addressed the problems in his M
first- he looks upon it as a personal weakness
and internally beats himself up a lot.
Certainly it would be better if we both adopted
more MB beliefs together- but there should
be no harm and only +++ if I adopt them re:
my behaviors.
|
|
|
|
0 members (),
758
guests, and
71
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
|
