Hi eric n and ks,

eric n,
Did you see my posts right before yours to ks? Hope it doesn't offend. it may just confuse a little more <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

The drug question is a scary one. Do you really think she has done drugs? I would hope it is just the hooks the OM has in her in general. Hopefully no drugs.

And boy, the thread about Plumb Bob please read is getting heated. I wish to stay away <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ June 21, 2004, 09:36 AM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]</small>

I guess you could ask her, as long as you wait until you are calm and you are both in a good mood. Just make sure you dont accuse her.

Make sure she knows it is only because you are concerned for her health.

Are you doing a good plan A?

Sending lots of love

Lets just say I am doing all that I can in plan A. No hate words, nothing but how much I love her and want to get through this,,, my problem is once the visions of her being intimate with him start my day is done,, I get pretty quiet, when wife asks if I am thinking about it, I cant help but tell her that I am not, I just do not want to talk about it and get me angry.

That is why I have found so much comfort in this site I can tell the people here the things that I cannot tell my wife.

If it was just a one night stand I think I could get healed a little quicker,, but 10 times 'at least thats what she confessed'is a hard pill to swallow. The lies and the extreme measures she took to sneak away to see him consume me.

I know my affair and her affair are equally wrong but do you know how many times the OW has crossed my mind????? 0 NONE has she called me? no not one time. Do I feel any need to see her again? NO
She is not what I want and I am not what she wants. I wish my wife could have had that perspective after her affair,, but no... he was what she wanted and she felt absolutely no regard for me and our children,, only when she got caught was she sorry. I just dont understand why The BS has to be the perfect one to get the marriage back on track. How can you ever fully implement plan A when you feel so betrayed, confused , hurt, humiliated, angry, regretful.

I mean how does one become this better person after they are betrayed. The truth is (and I bet I am not the only one here) but the truth is I feel like I want to close my emotions off. I feel like I never want any of my feelings to get abused again... Do u know how many times I told her she was the most beautiful woman I ever seen, and I would allways tell her how lucky a man I was to have her in my life, I was telling her all of this while she was having sex with him. \

How am I supposed to be this new and improved man to my wife,, I have allready had a revenge one night stand on her. Before this I never even dreamed of being with another woman,,,NEVER,,,, How can I improve myself when all that has happened has made me such a different person.

I am just to scared to shower her with love,, and then next thing you know I am devastated again.

OK,,, Sorry,, but I just get so mad when I think about how I am supposed to be this better person. When In fact the only mistake I ever made was trusting that my wife loved me so much that I could let her go to a bar and she would not hurt me.
Ofcorse I have definately made some bad decisions since the affair.

I did not have the affair that sparked all of this, I was a good father,, good provider, and at least in my mind and still i feel; this way,,,,I was a good husband,,, just trusted the woman I love a little more than I should have!

Eric,
I've had all the feelings and emotions that your last post touches upon.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I mean how does one become this better person after they are betrayed. The truth is (and I bet I am not the only one here) but the truth is I feel like I want to close my emotions off. I feel like I never want any of my feelings to get abused again... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> How am I supposed to be this new and improved man to my wife,, I have allready had a revenge one night stand on her. Before this I never even dreamed of being with another woman,,,NEVER,,,, How can I improve myself when all that has happened has made me such a different person. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have no easy answers to your questions. I do know that it's a step by step process. Kinda like Bill Murray's "baby steps"

I personally think you have the guts to do this. Don't listen to that little voice in your head that brings up doubts.

Focus on the posative. I know it sounds stupidly simplistic but it's gotten me thru some tough spots.

In my case, I focused on the fact that the A ended as soon as I discovered it. I focused on the fact that my W recommitted to me fairly quickly.

I forget are you on ADs? They do help especially if you have had other episodes of depression in your life.

Keep after it!

cwmac


cwmac

Eric, I am STILL banging my head against the wall trying to figure out what on earth I was thinking and it's been three years since the start of the A! None of it makes any sense given who I am and who OM is. I have some ideas, yes but if I knew then what I know now OMG, it never would have gotten to the where it did.

There was a definite point for me where I could not leave the relationship because of OM's sense of entitlement to me. Runawaypot has some VERY good things to say in terms of how things progress and the emotional thinking process, in that she's dead on.

There is an ADDED factor in your wife's A that the majority of the MB posters thankfully do not have to deal with. That is an OM who is SO dominant that the WW doesn't have control over the situation.

It's bad enough to deal with an A period, from both sides but when a woman has subjugated herself to the point where she has "allowed" things to happen to her that she NEVER imagined, it's a whole uglier mess. It's not about YOU, Eric. It's about HER.

There is NO COMPARISON between you and OM, we know, and you know in your heart of hearts. You did not deserve this in any way. The thing is don't fall into the trap of feeling like it's a competion at all. It wasn't. She did not sign up for what it became and all actions have consequences.

There were factors in your marriage that led to the A and you know what they were. The problem is that when a predator is involved and we can all agree that OM with his history of violence and aggressivness is a true predator, the entire picture becomes muddier.

It becomes much more difficult to extradiate (sp) the WW because of the combination of fog and deeply conditioned fear of OM's anger or disapproval. I continued contact with OM before DD in spite of the fact that I desperatly wanted out because I was afraid of him going off the deep end. He controlled me, not the other way around. Do I sound like an complete idiot yet????

I am deeply shamed by the things that I did and the things I "allowed." I am horrified at my lack of character, and my poor judgment. I will have to live with these things the rest of my life.

At the same time, because I have exposed these things and myself to H, there is nothing hidden between us anymore. What if he had rejected me after finding out the deepest, darkest side of me? What would the result have been for my family, my children, for me then? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

I have regret AND remorse Eric, and this is what troubles you in FWW. You are not seeing/sensing it, YET. It will come with the sheer passing of time and concerted effort to be a safe person for her on your part.

She will be able to deal with her feelings about your ONS when she is more clear herself,it's just one more coal heaped on the fire at this point. It doesn't mean she doesn't care! I agree that it is the guilt factor that keeps her feelings in check. I sort of wanted my H to do a revenge thing so that I wouldn't feel so bad. Selfish aren't I? There is no explaining a fogged mind, I tell you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Yes, it's unfair that YOU have to be the strong one but it is the way it is. If you can do this now to the best of your ability, you will reap the benefits in the future.

Don't question yourself too much, just put one foot in front of the other, day by day. Things will get better but you need to hang tough. Your situation has added issues and I pray that they get resolved.

Eric, I have been through so much crap in my life, you'd fall over if you knew but the relationship I had with OM takes the cake. I have always despite everything, been a sparkly, optimistic person because I know that through sheer grit and determination I can overcome obstacles. Hard work, Eric and it's your turn now. I do NOT feel that I am giving you false hope when I say it can be done. There are so many marriages saved here as proof. Hang in there! Best, KB

KB,,,,,

Thanks for responding and saying everything you can to give me hope. For that I respect you and admire you. More of all I admire your husband how did you and him get to where you are? I mean you have told me the bad times and the good times. You never told me it was easy! Man you were not lying.

To give you an example: Last night I slept in a sleeping bag outside of the car port.
::: was not able to show wife any affection.
::: Wife tried to kiss me ,, I pulled back.
::: Wife wanted to talk about it but I clammed up.

I have told her that I am back home where I belong.

Why does it feel like I do not belong there?
it feels like she is not even my wife, more like she is just a woman I live with.

When I was separated from her I didnt have to see her and be reminded of the kind of person she can be. Now I am home and seeing her sparks the images and thoughts of her affair.
I just do not know how long I will last.. more of all I dont know how long ,my wife will last.

It is just so so so hard for me to show her love or affection. Maybe I am a person who cannot forgive infidelity. There are men who have divorced thier wife 2 days after finding out of an affair and never looked back. Just the same as I admire a Husband who forgives and is able to save his marriage, I admire a Husband who knows when to lick his wounds and head down the road.

Right now I cannot do either of them,,, I was reading about the BS and sometimes FWW that place themselves in a shell vowing to never love again to never set themselves up for hurt. When I read up on this it seemed the author knew me personally and every thought that I had in my head about my future. I have allready put a shield up between me and my wife.
It feels like this has just taken all the love I had in me,, there is no more. Kids are the only ones who make LD'S in my bank. I do love them dearly.

To give you an example: Last night I slept in a sleeping bag outside of the car port.
::: was not able to show wife any affection.
::: Wife tried to kiss me ,, I pulled back.
::: Wife wanted to talk about it but I clammed up.

E, She was able you didn't let her. Don't ask for something and then get upset when you get it. I know it is rough but you want your wife to reach out for you and she did. Let her hold you.

I have told her that I am back home where I belong.

Why does it feel like I do not belong there?
it feels like she is not even my wife, more like she is just a woman I live with.
She probably feels like you aren't her husband.

When I was separated from her I didnt have to see her and be reminded of the kind of person she can be. Now I am home and seeing her sparks the images and thoughts of her affair.
I just do not know how long I will last.. more of all I dont know how long ,my wife will last.

Is this different than the kind of person you can be? If you want to be married you are going to have to work through this crap. It is unavoidable unless you turn tail and run but I guess when you visit them you would see her and be reminded again. Looks like you gotta feel this way no matter what you do....damn!


It is just so so so hard for me to show her love or affection. Maybe I am a person who cannot forgive infidelity. There are men who have divorced thier wife 2 days after finding out of an affair and never looked back. Just the same as I admire a Husband who forgives and is able to save his marriage, I admire a Husband who knows when to lick his wounds and head down the road.

And it might take a while but time doesn't make it any easier, it is what you do with the time...a cliche', I know. There might come a time when you need to move on but IMVVVVVVVHO it isn't now.

Right now I cannot do either of them,,, I was reading about the BS and sometimes FWW that place themselves in a shell vowing to never love again to never set themselves up for hurt. When I read up on this it seemed the author knew me personally and every thought that I had in my head about my future. I have allready put a shield up between me and my wife.
It feels like this has just taken all the love I had in me,, there is no more. Kids are the only ones who make LD'S in my bank. I do love them dearly.

it seemed that way because this is how most of us feel. We all put up the shield at first, it is a natural reaction when we get hurt. And as long as you are getting hurt it is good to distance yourself but it doesn't seem that your wife is slinging arrows at you right now.

God Bless and stay strong,

Doug

eric n.,

kb and d-rose had great things to say. I am glad you have these people to listen to.

I don't know if you got the post I wrote to you in this thread, but I did want to respond about your present feelings.

My H and I are very new in recovery. I am still in "withdrawal", although I am trying desperately to move on because of the pain it causes my H.

When I first confessed to my H, it was hell of course. I have known him so many years, and I would have to say loyalty and fidelity are two of his greatest strengths. I was not sure he would stay.

I continued the A behind his back for about 3 more months. Horrible, I know! I was so attatched, and , well, I don't know what to say. I am still shocked of what I became capable of.

We set up a date for MC, and I finally broke it off. Then I confessed the rest. Of course it destroyed any desire for my H to support me then. I had betrayed him again. He has really amazed me, but he has gone through so much to even get to where he thought he could stay.

In your situation, with the OM still having hooks in your wife(that is what it is), your emotions are natural. Why would you want to reach out if you might have your hand bitten off in the process? But please don't stay where you are.

You need a lot of support, but (please don't hate me for saying this) your wife needs you too because she is going to let this OM destroy her. As I said before, she is missing something in herself that has not made her strong enough to deal with this guy. No excuses, just from experience.

I am still surprised my H chose to stay with me. Especially when I continued while he tried to support me. There is a lot that has to be repaired for us. Your M can make it. Take it one day at a time. Don't be too hard on yourself. Just please give as much as you can, when you feel capable. It will help you and your W if only a little.

It is not fair, I know. One day she will see this. But now, she doesn't see anything clearly. Nothing. I am sorry you are hurting. I have no real advice, but please take care of yourself so you can hang in there when your W comes to her senses. Get what you need from here.

Pam

Doug,,,

Are you saying I am just being stubborn? Maybe I am I dont know. Yes wife is trying to reach me, trying to be affectionate to me trying to hold me.... why does it hurt me when she does these things.....

I really cannot tell you or my wife anything that she can do to make me feel better.

I have 2 countermeasures to my feelings.

1. Working out- Relieves stress plus keeps me feeling physically good.
2. Children- The only ones I am able to show love for which makes me feel happy.

when my workout is done and the kids go to sleep nobody left but wife. I immediately look forward to my next workout and seeing the children the next day. My wife is not even in the equation.

I look back at all of the great times me and my wife have had. They have all been shattered by one 2 month EA/PA.

Years from now I may look back and say ,,, I was to stubborn to work my marriage out,, at the present time I only feel I am to scared to work my marriage out.
"Mans accomplishment today can be his undoing tomorrow" JFK

Eric...

more importantly than the physcial/reaching out to one another...is where are you two on the communication side of things...

1. has she committed to total ending of contact
and is she willing to show proof....

2. are you two in active marriage recovery counseling

ark

Ark,,

Wife wants to talk but I am unwilling to, I mean what else needs to be said? Do we keep repeating the same conversation over and over. How am I suposed to communicate with her when all I can think about is her affair.

we were in joint counseling after 4 sessions we discontinued it,,, the counseling only seemed to fuel the fire.

here it is almost 2 months post affair and I have only got worse,, It took everything in me just to move back in.

Our situation, I am sure has changed the type of man and person I used to be. Problem is I dont believe the change is for the better.

AS far as contact,,, She had me totally convinced that there was no more contact,,,, but thursday I get a reality check that she has talked to him on the phone and told him about how we are doing. According to her he called her at work both times. She was unable to be firm with him or just hang up the phone,, nope what does she do?? She confides in him. After her actions,,, no I do not believe she has severed all contact. The OM is obsessed with her he will not quit calling her. I have even told him over the phone to never call her again. He said he was sorry and he would try to leave us alone. Welll,,,, one week later he calls her again,, says he couldnt help it he drove by her shop and he just wanted to call to see if she was ok. Wife buys it ,,, hook ,, line and sinker. She has another conversation with him. I Love busted her by saying any further conversation between them 2 would send me packing,,,And thats the way I feel,,I married pretty young I am still young, I cant get into some competition with another man for the woman I married. I still have time to start over,, just chalk this marriage up as a learning lesson, and not let it hapen again.
The only emotional thought I can come up with for my wife is "Damaged Goods" once a woman I loved so much that it was the love I gave that caused her affair.

Runaway,, I just caught your post,, sorry I guess we respnded at same time

Your husband Is very strong,, and it amazes me that people are able to overcome some of this.
But that is the key word PEOPLE, we are all different,, not all of us react to trauma the same.

I dont know what kept your husband so strong if I did I would sure bottle it up and sell it to all BH.
As A FWW I know you are able to relate to my wifes feelings better than I can and I do take all the things you say seriuosly. It restores hope for about as long as it took to read it.

When your wife tells you you are A GREAT HUSBAND kisses you and then marches out the door to sleep with OM. Or when you express concern about her bar activities and tell her you dont like it as her Husband,, she replies by saying "u have no reason to worry I would never do that to you I love you more than I could any Man" Marches out the door and sleeps with OM.
I reminded her that she said these things to me and asked her how is any human being capable of that kinda deception??? Her reply,,, "YOU SHOULDNT HAVE BEEN SO STUPID",, Come on where do you begin to start to ever believe in someone who has done this to you?

Eric...

I know this is all hurtful and confusing..
lots of people have found about resumed or never truly ending contact even no contact professed so know it's more common that not....

Here's how I feel...

limbo is dangerous....
limbo can lead to further pent up negative feelings.....

limbo can be dangerous for the children as people settle in to non-confrontational patterns that the longer they go on ...the harder things become to confront....and then they blow up...and the children are in the wake of another break up with no for-warning....

Eric...I would never blame you for deciding that you can't get past this....

that alone is your choice....

and I would never tell you get over it and move on together....

but....
(cringing at the word but)

what I would encourage you to do is look at some of the bigger picture...

recovery is possible..
you have children and have already spent time outside of the home...(correct?)...
and coming and going is very damaging to childrens need to security...
very scary to them....

they will blame themsevles...not being good enough for mom or dad to stay..
children are self-centered just based on developementally...and dont' give a rats behind for parental happiness.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I also am not clear what you mean by counseling fueled the fire so you both quit...

what does that mean...

The biggest issue is that you two regardless of the outcome for the sake of the children need to learn to be a team....whether together or apart...and perhaps you can focus on that....

I beg you to seek counsel...best through this site...

please don't spend a lot of energy on your ability to move on and find someone else at this point....those thought processes are dangerous and can be damaging as an escape route to what's at hand....

your children need a father focused on other things than moving on...

ARk

Ark,,,

When 2 people fall in love ,, have children,,,, then somehow someday they fall out of love and become so unhappy that they are not able to be a good parent to the children,,, do you just stick it out for the sake of the children. I went through a divorce when I was 4 yrs old,, I never knew who was at fault,, and yes as I grew up I allways wished MOm And Dad would reconcile,, but no MOM remarried and DAD remarried. I remember my Father allways telling me when he had me on the weekend it was not my fault,,sometimes 2 people just do not get along anymore and to avoid any further damage they have to split up. My father remained a great father and raised me full time after my mom got hooked on drugs. Only after I grew up did My Dad ever tell me why he and MOm could not make it,, SHE HAD AN AFFAIR,, my dad stuck it out as long as he could but in the end it ate him up. This gives me motivation to try to save my marriage because I remember it is no fun to only see your father every other weekend,, but it also tells me if Mommy and Daddy cannot work it out Daddy can still be a very loving Father to his children.

I also will never forget when I graduated My Dad told me: "Remember this advise,, There are 3 things in this world you never mess with,,, Thats a Mans Money,, a mans children,,, and a mans wife.
He said remember this and you will live a happy and healthy life. Even though I broke my vows by having a ONS I know for sure I have allways kept my promise to my father, and now more than ever do I understand what he was instilling upon me.

dang....that ark sure is smart. Almost sage-like.

Dear Eric N.,

Hi. I am the husband of runawaypot. I have been off the board for a while working on my marriage. I have posted to you before on this thread. She said you might need to hear my perspective.

I would be happy to give it, but can't this moment. I will read all this thread tonight and tell you MHO about my situation and yours.

It will help me tremendously if you let me know what kind of believer in God you are. I can respond either way - with faith or with logic. Guess I just want to know which way would speak to you most right now.

NCWalker

wooooooo------hhooooooooooooo

this is a warning from the national fog alert system....

fog is thick

zero visibility.....

When 2 people fall in love ,, have children,,,, then somehow someday they fall out of love and become so unhappy that they are not able to be a good parent to the children,,,

then somehow someday they fall out of love

oohhh..fog babble...

Eric...I know you are very hurt and confused..but people don't "fall in to love"...nor do they "fall out of love"...

people either act loving...
or act non-loving...which is a direct correlation to feeling in love or "out" of love...

but it also tells me if Mommy and Daddy cannot work it out Daddy can still be a very loving Father to his children.

truth is Eric...you haven't really tried yet..
both of you haven't tried yet on the same page..

her continued contact undermined you and her..

you current state of withdrawal...undermines you and her...

and eric...again and again..this is not to blame you or fault you for your current state of feelings of withdrawal...

but quitting after four counseling sessions without seeking a new counselor..does not bode well for recovery....

you are in the home RIGHT now...use this time wisely.....

blessings to you...
Eric I hope you are praying for clarity
for compassion
for peace.

d-rose said...

dang....that ark sure is smart. Almost sage-like.

watch it d-rose ...
Wat said something like that once...
but it was a coverted way to call me old!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
ark

OK Ark you make sense on the falling in and out of love,,,, Your right, and I also missed where you said Acting as a team either together or Apart,, I was focused on the together.

No, I have not looked into any other counseling,, Im still trying to pay the bill from the first 4. I asked the male counselor during one session if his wife had ever had an affair.. he replied no. This upset me because during that time he was telling me how I felt,,yea maybe he has seen people hurt similarly but trust me I had to before it happened to me and I know you just cannot fully relate or understand the mixed up feelings unless you have been there yourself. As for praying I have prayed to god over and over since finding out about A. I have decided that I will go to see the preacher who married us this week and pray with him for reconciliation,, I just wish I had confidence in reconciliation

NCwalker...

Could you try to relate the best you can from both perspectives,, I am a true believer in God. I am also a true believer in simplicity, so if you could I would not mind from both and I know that Runaway got you and told you I needed help... I can not believe the help and concern people here are willing to give. It feels like in some way if this destroys me it will affect everyone here. I appreciate everyone who has given me hope or tried to make logic, or even just let me vent,, as you can tell by how often I respond and talk about my situation I have become dependent on MB members to somehow help me get through this.

Eric,
First of all I'm at work so don't tell anyone I'm posting. ok?

Anyway... I have a few thoughts for you.

As I've said before I could have written many of your posts. I could have written them in Nov or December when I was only 2-3 months from DDay2. Despite feeling that way then, today I feel better about myself, my wife, my marriage and our future.

How did I get here? I had to take certain steps:

-After all the reading I had done on MB and elsewhere, I knew that I needed to give the marriage a real try for at least 6 mos. to a year after DDay2. Anything less and I might regret it in the future.

-I got myself on anti-depressants. They don't take away the depression or the related anguish but they do flatten out the highs and the lows. Depression is progressive. Untreated it only gets worse.

-My W's affair reopened old wounds in my past as well. My mother divorced my father and married the next door neighbor. As a teen I always woundered but put it out of my mind. Well the affair put it right back in the forefront. I always put my wife up on that pedestal and thought "here is the one person who would never betray me (as my mother and step-father had)." The reality is that was unfair to expect saintlyness. She's human as am I. In away my anger for my mother and childhood was all directed at my W as well and her affair. Again unfair. My W didn't cause my mother to do what she did. My W's actions did remind me of all of the embarrassment and pain that I had felt, though. I had to work thru the anger and I realized that not all of my anger should be directed at my wife. Most of it should be directed at mother, father and step-father.

-We, too, went to a MC. In the beginning, he seemed to help but during IC, I had asked him not to talk about a certain subject with my W. Of course he did. Said he forgot. From that point on our sessions seemed to just make things worse. They just reminded me of the affair and related pain.

-Found a new counselor. One who treats the shock of infidelity as a form of Post Shock Stress Disorder. Used some hypnososis to help with the flash backs/video of W having sex with the OM that would play in my head. It helped. I'd never been a believer in hypnosis.

-After the bad counselor, I decided to take some of the responsibility of a better me and a better marriage into my own hands. I started reading almost anything I could get my hands on.

"The Road Less Travelled"- several themes but "love is a decision" is the best. Another related theme, "the in love feeling is just a chemical reaction in the brain," is also good.

"Men are from Mars... Venus."- talks about how men and women miscommunicate bc they think differently.

"Men are from Mars...in the Bedroom." - same miscommunication issues but specific to sex.

"Finding the Love that You Want." bit of a tough read but explains why we pick the mates that we do.

There are more...

After all of this reading it reminded me that I'm not perfect nor is my wife, mother, step-father etc. I shouldn't expect them to be. Although I did.

I realize that IC, MC, drugs, books etc are expensive. I think that to date I've spent well into a few thousand dollars on all of it. (Not to mention the affair related expenses.) IMVHO, these expenses are the best money I've spent in years.

Not sure any of this helps but what you said about your mother's affair really struck a chord with me so I wanted to share.

cwmac

<small>[ June 22, 2004, 01:08 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>