1 night of stupidity and i shattered her world. My sole goal in life right now is to "restore" OUR world; possibly even make it better. Anyone with experience in this situation encouraged to weigh in!!

Details, eh... you make a good point. First time on, bear with me pls

Was traveling (work; i travel a lot), was at a bar, drank too much, long story short was with with another woman, didn't go all the way but as I now know that doesn't matter that much... later, a major guilt trip emerges on my part as this was a first time, only time event. Told wife a few days later; and here we are like deer in headlights now wondering how to move forward. She is absolutely crushed; so am I. Have lost 7 pounds in last 4 days. 2 kids, 22 yrs married in Aug

Another note - the abbreviations at the bottom of many posts - is there a legend to figure out all the meanings??? Thx

ILH,
For the abbreviations go to the Just Found Out board. The top two thread will give you what you want.

cwmac

<small>[ November 06, 2004, 11:18 PM: Message edited by: cipher ]</small>

Ahem, some of the "older' generation are still up. OK, it helps that I'm on the other side of the world and it's only 7.30pm here.

I love her, the people on here are amazing. They have wisdom, kindness, a whole lot of humour, they'll give you some "firm" advice if they think you need it - what can I say, they're just so COOL.

Just wanted you to know that people are reading.

Jenny

iloveher,

The advice cellophane gave you is very good. Reading SAA will hopefully lead you to an understanding of what happened here. Often affairs happen because of unmet needs at home. Sometimes they don't. Your job will be to find out WHY this happened to make sure it doesn't happen again. Do you have a drinking problem?

In the meantime, I would work on cleaning up the damage with your wife. Such as, staying out of bars, staying in town as much as possible, staying in touch with her throughout the day.

Have you told her the ENTIRE truth about this? One of the biggest mistakes that wayward spouses make is withholding information in order to "spare her some pain." The problem with that is that the betrayed spouse almost always senses something is being withheld and when the truth does come out - it always does - trust is destroyed all over again.

Its much better to get it ALL OUT in one fell swoop so you can both move forward. Otherwise you will be stuck in time and every time some new little tidbit comes out you both go right back to day 1 of recovery. Its about like dying a death of a thousand cuts and it is even more destructive than an affair.

So, spill your gut if you haven't and get it all out now. She can deal with what she knows, she can't deal with what she doesn't know.

Can you send her here so we can help her?

<small>[ June 17, 2004, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Thank all of you so much for your kind and helpful words... This happened so recently i'm trying as hard as i can to understand all this better so i can begin doing the right things for our family. Have any of you been to the MB weekend getaways? Comments/Results?
Also, to answer one question I travel for a living; can't avoid unless I change jobs. Drinking, don't need to attend AA meetings but I certainly feel like i lose control when I occasionally overdo it. For now the drinking is over. period. Church is definitely on the agenda for sunday am and beyond. And, the fear of STD's just paralyzes me now that i think about it... what a d*** mess.....

keep calm ILH and you will work it out. you have come to a great place here. You made a mistake, but you can make it right now. It might not be easy but you can do it.

Iloveher, I saw on your other thread that your W is not meeting your need for sex. This will have to be addressed at some point in the future or you will be vulnerable to an affair. This must be resolved or it will continue to cause huge problems in your marriage.

I would suggest getting the book we mentioned above and His Needs/Her Needs by Willard Harley. You can also print out the emotional needs questionaire on this website and have your wife and yourself take it. It really is important that you understand the other's emotional needs and learn to meet them.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi4501_enq.html

Can you send her here to us?

ml, fl, thank you, you are just wonderful as far as i'm concerned. I consider myself a reasonably intelligent person and i see great wisdom in your comments.

I am already doing some of the things mentioned like keeping in touch more during the day, telling her i love her, apologizing for a flamingly stupid (ONS) decision. It's tough, as i noted i travel for a living, today I'm about 500 miles from her and won't see her til Sunday. As to can I get her on here - perhaps - I'd like to very much. I have already mentioned that I'm willing to do counseling, anything it takes to restore our relationship though I have very grave concerns that her faith in me will never truly return. She's a very committed, very no-nonsense type woman who in my mind is quite remarkable. You are right - i was very upset at the lack of a consistent physical relationship (ie sex); 95% of the rest of the marriage was fine from my perspecitve. She tells me that I was not sensitive to her needs; she is quite a conversationalist while i am a very quiet, reflective, thoughtful type. As I look back I no doubt did shut her out on things she probably wanted to discuss but just never tried as she probably felt i wouldn't go along with the discussion in a meaningful and "come to a conclusion" type of way/commitment. After telling her I followed her around like a little puppy dog for a few days trying to discuss things.. she was at a disadvantage as I had 3-4 days to contemplate the situation. Just when we were beginning to open up it's time for me to go on another trip, and an important one at that. I suppose I'm getting ready for next week - I'll be home all week and hope to continue our discussions.

Again, thanks for your input <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I love her -

It sounds like you have already taken some very positive steps. In my case I can see why the A took place, and as the BS I have to life with the knowledge that I was partially responsible for the condition of our marriage that left it open for an A. I don't know if it is too late for my M, but I'm not ready to give up yet. And you shouldn't either. You need to give her time to absorb this and grieve the loss of "the perfect marriage." You sound like you are doing all the right things, keep it up. Make sure you guys address each others needs so you can keep that A door closed for good. Let us know how it goes.

Just spoke with her on the phone... didn't go so well, think she's feeling down + angry this evening <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .... hopefully tomorrow will be better

Anyone else with suggestions pls pls let me know your thoughts!!

Send your wife to marriage builders...there are sooooo many BS here. We can really give her all the support.

I can knock some sense in her too. I can tell her my story and i bet she will start to think she is lucky that you came home, remorse and sorry.

My WH never gave this marriage a chance...he is a creep.

You are a great guy...Keep doing what you can. She will come around. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well, an update... things have settled down and we are communicating reasonably well about general topics. I am finally back in town so we can at least communicate in person. She has to be hurting soooo badly but she is being remarkable in her interaction with the kids (esp when I'm around) and keeping an even temperment.

I'm really puzzled about how to behave around her, what to say, and what to do. I have lost interest in the world at general; I only care about her well being at this point. My emotions are still a mess as I think hers are. It's hard for me to be in the same room with her without getting misty eyes about how much we're hurting right now. Here are my general plans for the next week - I'll be in all week thank goodness:

(#1) and most important - work on friendship issues. She's my best friend in the world, I hope I'm hers. Seems to me we have to re-establish some basic rapport which hopefully will help her dig deep and rediscover some positive feelings about me and our relationship. I'm trying really hard to see issues from her perspective and to consistently every day discuss things that are very important to her right now - while trying to not be so aggressive to want to discuss my ONS incident ad nauseum to ease my troubled feelings.
(#2) Help her around the house and with the kids more. She's a typical Mom that does more in one day than many men can accomplish in a couple of weeks..!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Like most women I'm sure that never-fading commitment just wears them out and no doubt was a contributing factor to some of the problems I thought I perceived months, years, and even decades ago.
(#3) We've agreed to outside help/counseling. In an interesting twist we will go on vacation with the kids just before the first step of counseling begins (a timing thing, but it is what it is..) with MB. I'm really impressed with the whole MB concept. I hope we can maximize its offerings to their fullest. My goal is to be an all-star graduate of its programs. Goals are important for me; they help me navigate through life. I just need to make sure I choose my goals very carefully and as I work to achieve them avoid some of the pitfalls that led to my feelings of severe neglect that then led to the temporary insanity of very recently....
(#4) I'm trying to set my mind that this will take a looong time to work out and that worries me. I don't think a quick resolution is good (need to do this right) but with my depressed state of mind (and hers) some days it just doesn't seem like you can feel much worse... who knows what that brings later on...
(#5) I want to reestablish our ties emotional ties with a church and try to weave into a network of solid, stable people. Today was to be the first day at a local church but the airline had a bad day. I had a little meltdown at the airport waiting for the endless delays to be resolved. Church didn't work out today but we've agreed to get back into it next week.

With all that, I have some questions for anyone kind enough to relay some advice. The questions are from a certain slant which you will see but it's really something I'm struggling with right now:

a. I am scared to touch her, even a glancing inadvertent touch. This certainly includes hugs. Kisses haven't been permitted so I quit asking. I keep asking her how she feels but she is quite reserved with her feelings right now. My plan is just to back off and let her guide me. This problem, it seems to me, could be so deep-seeded that we will never have any close physical contact again. I really don't know where this is going.
b. I assume I should stay in seperate bedroom quarters, for awhile anyway, who knows.... I don't want to alarm the kids though, so I'm trying to figure a way to keep this as quiet & "non-noticeable" as possible...
c. What time frames are usually found before a couple can find emotional stability well enough to lead to a well rounded physical relationship also? Months? Quarters? Years?

I ask these questions about the physical part of our relationship as that's the area that let to my mind sploshing in the gutter in the first place. Maybe I'm just being shallow and calloused, I don't know. Perhaps I'm just the prototype male who thinks with testosterone and not with their brain.

Anyway, that's the status one week after our "D-Day" and 10 days after ONS date. It's been the worst 10 days of my life without question. I've now lost about 12 pounds. At this rate I'll blow away in a month or two!!

I think I'll reengage in real life right now and fire up the grill for a family cookout.

God bless you all; pls keep us in your prayers <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

ILH,

Whew, you and your wife have been through alot. I've been gone from this board for awhile, so my thoughts could be a little rusty!

A question for starters...am I correct to understand that you and your wife will be doing coaching through MB? I hope so, because it's the best way IMHO to navigate your way through recovery of your marriage.

So much of recovery is counter-intuitive; I'm still amazed by that fact. You've already said something that is soooo important in recovery. You told your wife that you would do "whatever it takes" to save your marriage. Keep repeating that when she's particularily down.

You both have much to learn, great books are Harleys "Surviving An Affair"; His Needs, Her Needs - and Shirley Glass's book "Not Just Friends".

You need to become an expert in why you had an ONS. There are some great examples on this forum of marriages that not only survived, but thrived on the other side of recovery.

If you're counseling with the Harley's, they will be able to give you very specific solid answers to your detailed questions. I counseled with Steve Harley, and he was so very intuitive to our situation and made a HUGE difference in our pace of recovery. Good Luck!

ILH,

It sounds like you are doing great in laying out a plan for the recovery of your marriage. That is essential to recovery and I applaud you for doing it. I think you are on the right track.

The only thing I would add is that I think its important for you to sleep in your bed with her. Unless she boots you out, I would get in your bed and see if she lets you hold her. TRY to hold her.

See, one of the big issues with betrayed spouses is that we believe the affair happened because we are undesirable and unattractive and you found someone MORE desirable than us. It is a HUGE blow to our self esteem.

It is this impression that you need to help her overcome. So I would suggest doing everything to make sure she doesn't feel that way. Such as letting her know that you DESIRE her and NEED to be close to her. You want MORE than friendship, you WANT HER. You find her desirable and attractive. That means you try to sleep with her and you TRY to hug and hold her.

Touch her and look at her as much as possible. Kiss her on the cheek. If she pushes you away, then try again the next day. Because you desire her SO MUCH you are willing to try again and again.. See what I mean? She needs to see you demonstrate that you want her more than you wanted this bar lady in order to restore her badly damaged self esteem.

ILH -

Great advise has been given to you. The only other thing that I can suggest if it hasn't been suggested already is that if the depression is getting you or your wife down get on anti-depressants! It will help with the ups and downs a lot.

I might be speaking out of turn here, but I think your wife may want to "reclaim" you sexually. This is really really common. You should be prepared to take rejection, in an effort to make it easy for her to have sex with you. A lot of BW's don't need to be asked. It's instinctive. However, you made some comment about STD's. If there is any chance of that, then better leave it till you've been to a clinic.

Now, how do I approach this subject without giving you the impression that you weren't totally in the wrong? If the lack of sex in your M was as bad as you claim, then you had grounds for looking outside the M. (at some basic level of thinking) Your W has to know that your sexual relationship was cr*p. This will play on her mind as she is computing the sad state of things (or it should). I blame myself for my H going outside the M and we had sex regularly. I just didn't enjoy it regularly. I was a great wife IMHO, but I didn't know how to enjoy sex - so provided it a couple of times a week without much personal involvement (and then once a week (if that) I'd try to have an orgasm) Now, I feel guilty about my lack enthusiasm, so how is it possible that this is how your wife feels?

We are motivated by deep seated factors. It's common for a BS to feel desire for a WS, in spite of what they've done - because suddenly they realise (think) that their S is not a sure thing. I heard that fear raises the testosterone level - it sure as hell did in me.

Now I get a bit miffed at this point, that the WH can still think of his physical needs at such a time. But, we need to be practical. Men are huge into physical pleasure and apparently can put it above all else - risk ruining their lives for it. So, you should accept you have this need and maybe take this time to be bold and tell your wife, without apology, that you need/want/crave closer physcial fulfilment with her. Probably best to tell her first what an awesome woman she is first.

She might take your conversation as your self justification speech. Somehow you are going to have to differenitate between justification and your needs from the relationship.

My H was prepared to wait a year or two without sex. He waited 3 days. The longer she waits the more difficult it will become (least that's what I told myself). And, she wasn't used to having it that often anyway, so she's not thinking she needs to change because you found another lady who was willing to give you a bit. But deep down, I'm betting she knows she needs to change. You already said she's amazing - so she knows!

Btw, the being normal around the kids? It's weird but in an odd sort of way, life goes on. She is still living in the pre ONS state for a lot of what she does. I can't believe that my H went to work the next day after discovery. I said he should go to to work so he did. It's not that she's not in a lot of pain, but she's still going thru the motions of her old life.

Wonderful feedback from you all - thank you for your insights.

Last night we had a long discussion followed by another one this morning. We're both a bit bleary eyed but its worth it when she begins to talk about things. I will have to be very consistent and considerate with her to continue creating a "safe" forum in which to discuss our mutual feelings. One of the things she said is she is grossed out by the thought of me touching another woman and she has no interest (at least yet) in touching me in "those" areas. Kissing is only allowed on her cheek. However, I am now allowed hugs (we agreed those were ok last night) and she always has been a sucker for a good shoulder / head rub of which I happen to be very good at. Anyway - progress! Baby steps! Yeah!

It was sooo interesting to hear "anyname's" perspective and her answers to my questions. She answered them directly and from the perspective of someone who's been there from the other side. Exactly what I needed to hear; thank you very much.

To the STD question - in my opinion ANYONE who goes outside the marriage has the possibility for this to happen. Regardless of what the "Other" person says their history is you really don't know. This is why I brought it up in the first place. I don't know of a problem but I don't know for 100% sure its not a problem either. My wife and I both agree that we need to be 100% certain that we have eliminated this as a potential problem. I'm going to see my Dr. later this week and discuss. Physically, I feel fine, but so what? Depending on various sources you have to wait 28 days to get a test but others have said 6 months. The Dr. can speak to that.

Ah, just something else to beat myself up with. In the long run it's probably useful tho - I did a stupid thing and need to feel pain to help me understand why it can NEVER happen again. EVER.

With good reports covering that disgusting topic perhaps we can start the process to better address and meet each others emotional needs which one part would be the intimate physical part. I hope upon hope that she sees it as you suggest and decides its one of MY important emotional needs and finds some way to as you say "enjoy" it and not just go thru the motions just to appease me, and develop a reasonable frequency. You mentioned a couple of times a week in your marriage - we were on the couple of times every 1-2 MONTHS plan for the last few years. Before that I was feeling poorly about once a week - what was I thinking?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I'm not that bad looking! Without a doubt your experience sounds like hers thus any additional thoughts you have by all means leave a note.

Thanks again!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />