I often find myself wondering why I perceived my affair and it's impact on my marriage somewhat differently from so many here.

Far and above, the majority of affairs seem to be characterized as "replacement" affairs, i.e. the BS is replaced by the OP.

I never perceived my affair in that manner. I ALWAYS knew that I loved my wife deeply and would never leave her. I'd convinced myself that there were just some things that she was incapable of doing and that it was ok for me to have an "add-on" relationship to get those needs met. My marriage relationship actually IMPROVED (my wife agrees) during the affair. In light of what I see here, that seems so weird.

So, I'm curious how many here would characterize their affair as an add-on affair. What was your marriage like when it was in progress? Do you think men or women are more likely to have an add-on affair?

Low

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ... Mr. Orbit...

You know this already, Mr. Pep's was also add-on variety.


I think YOU are doing a great job, by the way.

Pep

LowOrbit,

I've read here that men are more likely to have add-on affiars whereas women are more likely to have replacement (or exit) affairs.

My H's A, although he contemplated leaving the M, was mostly an add-on A. He stated more often that he wanted BOTH of us, occasionally said he wanted to get away from both of us to figure out what he wanted, and occasionally said we might need to eventually D. Mostly, however, he wanted complete, independent futures w/both of us.

My A, though of short duration, was a replacement A. If I hadn't ended contatct with OM I'd have left my H. I couldn't do the balancing act.

LO,
We have posted to each other before. I think my H's A was similar, but our M was NOT better during the A. He loved me, wanted to get what he was getting from the OW from me, but felt that I did not have the desire or capacity to provide those to him. It was a way of staying married and still making himself happy.

It was all about making himself happy.

Unlike you, though, he doesn't see that he ever could have been happy long term with is OW. It was all a fantasy. She worked very hard to present an appealing facade. He realized that her whole life was self-centered, that she never takes responsibility for her own actions and that he would never have been with her if he were single.

Tx Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> sex and death ....

and chocolate ...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is safe to ask about this? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ June 17, 2004, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: LowOrbit ]</small>

Sad to say mine is definately a replacement.

If given a choice i will take add on ANYTIME!!!

It is crappy to be replace by someone else but when you have reach my stage...you do give a damn anymore.

I have a choice to replace WH too and that is a good thought <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I would say that my wife's was a replacement affair while.

My A wasn't an add-on really, although I did love my wife very much, I just didn't see her staying in the marriage.

I guess in a wierd way.....I settled???

I'd have to think more about this. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ June 17, 2004, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: d_rose ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by LowOrbit:
<strong> Tx Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> sex and death ....

and chocolate ...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Is safe to ask about this? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This time...

It's ALL EVERLONG's fault.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

That's all I can say.........

This is going to sound weird, but I am going to comment from my X OMs perspective. Believe it or not, we discussed this issue quite frequently. I think it was his way of making sure I knew we were just out to have "fun" and enjoy each other. I was too hooked by my ENs and PNs getting met, that I accepted that(sort of).

He often talked about his W fondly, and with great enthusiasm. In fact, I am almost sure the A made him happier and more giving at home. He would be with me, then tell me about his great plans for his W on Mothers Day. We talked about our spouses often.(awful, I know) She would call while we were together. He would answer, and then discuss with me their plans for the evening. I was definitely and add-on and I truly believe he felt it made his marriage lighter and his ability to give easier. Whether out of guilt or what, I don't know. I just know he did a heck of a lot around the house, with the kids, etc.

I am not condoning. You just really made me see it. It met a need so he could enjoy his marriage better.

It wasn't that easy for me. It became a replacement even if I did not intend on it. I knew how he felt, but I was so addicted to the comfort of the time together. Am trying to move on and appreciate the real love I have from my H.

My WH had an add-on affair. It was not better but he said he wanted us both.

Mine was during my husband's six months absense. I tell him I would not have an affair right under his nose. He does not beleive me. I wish he did trust me more. He does not see a difference. I do.

RAP, this discussion came up a lot between OM and I as well.

OM's was definitely add-on. He used to talk about his w very glowingly and with great pride.

It was made clear to me right from the start that we had "unfinished business" (he was HS b/f), we should get it out of our systems and then be friends.

I went along with that for quite some time. But then found I couldn't do without him and he was completely replacing my H in my emotions and affections.

Jenny

I think Betty's husband was 'committed' to staying married to her, sure. I do think men add-on more often than replace, generally. But unlike others here:

He talked very little about his wife, and then only neutrally. Nothing good, nothing bad.

He said on one occasion that he felt 'torn'.

He absolutely did not want to discuss what he got from each relationship, or why he was in an affair.

I think it was more of a 'split self' deal where he was (unconsciously) working out things about himself.

He was frightened a lot of the time, by a lot of things. In general, I think a lot of major things in his life were done out of compulsion.

Although I never really regarded him as a 'replacement' or expected, hoped, or thought that we would ever be anything more, I was very clear about what I felt about him, and why, and why I got into the affair, and why I had to get out of it, and the state of my marriage and the reasons for that. And I acted on all of those things.

Pep,

I will fully accept blame for the specter of sex and death that I have cast over all things here.

By way of explanation, those topics were the subject of a chapter in Schnarch's _Passionate_Marriage_, and because my book was bound defectively, I was delayed in reading about those things until I could borrow a good copy of the book and/or order a replacement from the publisher. To date I have received two new copies. Don't ask.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I think the question of an add on or replacement affair is an interesting one. I define an add on affair as the WS seeing something more in life (sex, emotional attachment, etc.) but does not want to give up what they have.

I see a replacement affair as the WS seeking to find someone to replace something that is missing or not good in the current relationship or the entire relationship itself. Obviously there can be cross over and I would expect that many add on affairs end up being replacement affairs, as described by KiwiJ.


My wife had a series of add on affairs. First she was abroad for four months and add an affair thinking it would all stay abroad. Then she wanted better sex and sought out three different people for that. All that was years ago. Then more recently I am not sure why she sought out a new lover as our sex life and home life was, I thought, very good. She says it was very good too, but she sought out new people. In posting an add on a website she stated that she was married, had a good relationship but wanted to have sexual fun with new people without getting caught. She keeps on seeking add on affairs which makes we wonder if she really wants a different relationship but is afraid of losing the good things she has in the current one.
What is confusing to me is that all of her previous add on affairs ended awkwardly or badly. They caused her to lose close friends, have an abortion, etc., but she keeps on trying.

In addition to ending badly, they caused significantly rifts in our relationship. She had to continually lie to me and try and remember what story was the truth. The lies kept us distant as I could not comfort appropriately about a miscarriage because of her past abortion and numerous other things that kept us from being close. Unless she is still lying to me about her past motives and what she did, I cannot understand why someone would keep having add on affairs when each add on affair did not work.


A response to Genia. I can hear part of my wife in your statement that you see a difference between having an affair when away and when you are at home. My wife now says that she is being honest and that my lack of trust when she goes out now is just punishing her for things that she has not done. She works in education and also is going to be home a lot this summer alone with plenty of opportunities to cheat. She says that she never cheated on summer vacation in the past and does not understand why I am having trouble trusting her this summer. However, the point is that we were betrayed and that surrounding circumstances (while very relevant to preventing future affairs and dealing with the problems in the relationship) are not less important than the fact that our trust was betrayed. For example, until the last affairs, my wife had never spontaneously kissed another guy at a party, or never sent an email to someone asking them to come over and f**k her, or she had never posted an ad on a cheater’s website, etc. The point is that the trust was broken and it is less relevant that the trust was not broken in a particular manner. My wife may not have cheated on me during summer breaks because her mental state was different or because the opportunity did not present itself. What is to say that if our relationship is bad and an opportunity presents itself that she will not cheat again. The fact that you did not have an affair under his nose does not give your husband much reassurance that you would not have done so if the opportunity and circumstances were not right. The huge difference that you see may be a very small difference to BSs. I am not saying that either perspective is correct, just that I cannot trust my wife just because she is doing something that is based on difference circumstances than when she cheated on me.


On the other side, I think BSs like myself have to recognize that there may be limits to what our spouses did and that they might not have crossed certain limits. For example, some WSs refuse to have unprotected sex. Some WSs recognize they have made a mistake and try to end or have ended the relationship. Maybe Genia is correct in that she would have never had an affair close to home. Maybe Genia has acted differently at home and refused potential affairs. Some people make a one time error under the influence of drugs that they would never had otherwise done. In my circumstances while my wife had unprotected sex, and relationships close to home, she never tried to replace me. She wanted to be with me, “just” wanted more. I think these facts are important to understand first that there are limits to the harm that some WSs will inflict. WSs often still have morals and ethical codes that they are following that allow them to justify what they are doing. These moral and ethical codes need to change, but may have some positive attributes that should be retained. Understanding the limits of what people will do is also critical to understand why the affair happened. If someone has had affairs while drunk then it is reasonable to stop drinking. If the affairs happened while traveling alone then no more traveling alone. Etc.

low...mine was an add-on variety too. How insane is that when you think about it...talking about having your cake and eat it too! I never, nor did OM have any intention of ever leaving our spouses.

I ditto Kiwij's post word for word. She's my clone on the other side of the world. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am having trouble getting my mind around this.

Ok, my husband is living with one woman during the week, possibly seeing other women also when he is in town.

And on weekends he is here with me, very loving.He told me the other day that when he is here he is 'with 'me. So does that mean when he is with her is is 'with 'her?

Like two wives, or a wife and concubine...I wonder which one I am.

Maybe we should all move in together and be one family.

***edited*****EITHER SHE DOESN'T CARE BECAUSE , SHE , ALSO IS IN AN AFFAIR OR ...........IF THIS ISN'T THE SITUATION......SHE JUST LIKES BEING TAKEN CARE OF FINANCIALLY OR HOPEFUL TO GET IN ON THE AFFAIR HERSELF . POSSIBLE TO FULLFILL SOME DESIRES SHE HAS BEEN HAVING HERSELF , BUT AFRAID TO TELL YOU . THEN AGAIN.....SHE COULD JUST BE SAVING HER MONEY FOR A WAY OUT .....WHEN IT IS BEST FOR HER !!! ****edited****I UNFORTUNITLY HAVE BEEN ON BOTH SIDES OF THE FENCE ( AT SOME POINT IN MY LIFE ) AND NEITHER SIDE IS A HAPPY SITUATION FOR THE SPOUCE THAT ISN'T THE CHEATER .IN TODAYS TIME WITH AIDS .....CHEATING CAN BE AND HAS BEEN DEADLY . THERE ARE LIFE TIME " FRIENDS " ( STDS ,ETC ) THAT EITHER YOU CANNOT GET RID OF OR THEY KILL YOU !!! AND LETS FACE IT SOMETIMES THINGS GET TOO PASSIONATE TO THINK ABOUT A CONDOM OR THEY BREAK . IF PEOPLE WOULD SPEND AS MUCH TIME GIVING THEIR NON-CHEATING SPOUCE THE ATTENTION THEY GIVE THEIR LOVER ...OR JUST TELLING THEIR SPOUCE WHAT THEY NEED IN & OUT OF BED ( AND ACTUALLY DOING IT OR AT LEAST TRYING IT ) THEIR MARRIAGE MIGHT BE EVERYTHING THEY BOTH NEED . PEOPLE MAKE MISTAKES , THE THING IS ....TO LEARN BY THEM . SOME OF US LEARN , SOME DON;T .....AND SOME ARE JUST BIPOLAR .....LOOK IT UP . OR HAVE OTHER ISSUES . SOMETIMES CHEATING ISN;T ABOUT SEX AT ALL . ITS ABOUT OTHER NEEDS THAT ARE NOT BEING MET ......IF YOU CAN'T TALK ...SEE A COUNCELOR.

<small>[ June 18, 2004, 10:35 AM: Message edited by: Justuss ]</small>