Zizzy -- you're right about the emails. I had found several other bits of evidence in the past couple of weeks, and they didn't really bother me, so I figured I could handle anything. But you're right... I won't be doing that again. They weren't even that bad. Something about it just set me off.

This was really the first day when I said to myself, "you know, if this is who she has become, then I want nothing to do with her". I've been gradually getting to this point, but I felt it very strongly today.

I don't know if it is better to see the bus coming before it hits you, or if it is better just to me rundown. Hang in there, it is good that OM is reluctant.

<small>[ July 17, 2004, 09:43 AM: Message edited by: 1Tin Man ]</small>

Phantom,

Good luck with SH today. If your W is about to hit a wall, I wonder if SH will advise that you wait a little longer before plan B. Will be interested to read about it.

Reading those emails and journal entries was bad for you. Though it seems there was some promising news in there, sort of.

Your W is in deep financial doo-doo. Has this kind of trouble given her stress before or is she able to not sweat it too much?

Your dogs are the coolest. Ralph's coloring is exactly the same as my parents' schnauzer has. I'm going to see border terriers a week from today. I probably can't afford it but will probably still go for it.

GC

1FM -- Yeah, until yesterday, I thought I wanted to know everything, but I feel like complete garbage now. No more snooping around for me. Nothing really changed; it's not like it was surprising. Just seeing it there in black and white caught me off-guard for some reason.

GC -- She's always been bad with money, and it's never really bothered her before. Though she's spending more than I've ever seen her do. $10k in 3 months is just staggering, even for her. I'm starting to wonder if bankruptcy may be the only thing that wakes her up (in which case I'll need a separation agreement before that, as I don't want my credit screwed too.) I have to think that she's going to crash soon, but I don't know. She just seems so oblivious to everything right now. I wish her family would talk to her (though she ignores their calls, so I guess that's easier said than done). Even though they're on my side, they know she's hard-headed, and just "needs to figure this out for herself."

BTW, Ralph was supposed to be a black & silver, just like Alice. He mutated to a salt & pepper a couple years ago. If there's anyway you can afford a dog, go for it. They've really helped me through this nightmare. The best thing about schnauzers is that they don't shed AT ALL. There's not a single dog hair in my house.

Just finished speaking with SH. When WW spoke with him on Monday, she was very cordial, and if asked, said that she would speak with SH again. As roughroad has said, SH doesn't give out many details of his conversation with WS. SH had me fill out the Love Busters questionnaire (from WW's point of view) after our first talk. He said that my responses were dead on with what WW told him. I guess that's good; if I keep concentrating on fixing the things that I'm already aware of, I'll be in good shape, no matter what happens.

The current plan is to try to get WW to agree to going to the Marriage Builders seminar later this month. I don't think she'll want to do this, but I'll try. The important thing right now it to convince WW that it *is* possible to get things back on track, that it *is* possible to re-ignite our love. The affair WILL end, and if she knows that things are fixable, she'll want to come back. SH said he has seen MANY examples of affairs with 20 year age differences, and he is very confident that it WILL end.

SH wants to talk to WW the week of 7/12. He's on vacation the week of 7/5. This is getting expensive, but I've got to keep trying...

SH thinks that when the credit card is maxed out, she'll just get another card (I agree), because she'll want to continue in her current lifestyle. He said that if she doesn't agree to go to the seminar OR to talk to him in a couple weeks, then I should begin taking steps to protect myself.

He confirmed that it is too early for Plan B. In fact (important for Graycloud and others), he recommends that a BS without children NEVER goes to Plan B. Without the children there to pull the WS back, it just makes it too easy to make a clean break. You just need to pace yourself for as long as you can.

Also said that I should be emailing her every couple of days, just to make her think of me, even if she doesn't respond (which she rarely does, these days). I know this is consistent with other peoples' session.

I think that's about it... I'll add more if I think of anything else.

<small>[ July 02, 2004, 01:30 PM: Message edited by: phantom8808 ]</small>

Yes, the email advice sounds similar to SH's advice for roughroad also. Regular flares to remind your WS that you exist. While in plan A, how much is too much, that's the question.

Another thought: people tend to be much more impetuous and gutsy in emails than in person, over the phone, or even in written correspondence. Maybe it's because you can give into an impulse quickly, and hit "send" a second later, and you don't have to face the receipient to do it. I've had big fights with people over email that would never have happened in person. The time it takes to sign, seal, and deliver a letter... the extra weight of hearing somebody's voice... the burden of having to look them in the eyes...

Maybe email is not a great tool for MB. Just a thought.

GC

Yeah, I'm not thrilled with sticking to email. Bottom line is that no medium is that great right now. WW ignores anything from me (calls or emails). The only way I talk to her is when she calls me to discuss when I pick up / drop off the dogs. So that gets me 2 conversations per week. If that continues, and I send her a couple of emails every week, at least I'm in her thoughts, if only a little bit. Just have to wait for the A to die...

I'm done. I spoke to WW today, and asked her to come and get the dogs, as my flight to NYC is at 5:30, and I'm trying to get some work done prior to that. She wouldn't do it because "They're [her] dogs, and if [I] want to see them, [I] should come get them / drop them off every time." My LB is empty. I guess it's been getting pretty low lately, and this one thing finally depleted it completely. I thought I could last longer than 3 months, but I guess I'm not made of the same stuff that some of you BS's are. I truly admire you folks.

When I get back next week, I'm going to start the process of refinancing my truck into just my name, and her car into her's. Then the house. Fun.

Phantom,

I understand what you are going through and my heart goes out to you.

I am 4 months into a fairly good Plan A--few LB's and a positive attitude. A few weeks ago, I checked cell phone and charge card receipt (which I dug out the pieces out of the trash and taped back together) My snooping confirmed contact and lying. Although I expected it, the reality hit me like a tons of bricks, and it was like a second D-day. I ran away for a few hours and when my H asked me what set me off, I did not say--but that episode still turned into an LB.

I can and want to handle honesty, but until we are stablized, I have sworn off snooping--it has been a set back for me. Hang in there, Phantom. I hope you can stick with the a good Plan A. I am pulling for you.

Phantom,

I'm sorry to hear you feel it's time to give up. Maybe this is the danger of a permanent plan A.

I thought I was growing distant from events in my own situation. But for reasons I won't go into, I realized today that I'm not there yet. I still have hope, and I still care deeply about each new development.

And yet, reading about ncwalker and runawaypot has made me terribly nervous about the prospect of recovery.

Boy, the fireworks at MB have not been pretty this weekend.

Phantom, got you in my thoughts tonight. I hope you keep posting.

GC

Just got into my hotel in NY, after 2 hours of delays... Should be coding right now, but don't really feel like it...

I'm still going to do Plan A when I'm around her, but I'm not going to go out of my way to contact her. Call it a pseudo Plan B.

I guess if I had to describe my current state of emotions in one word, I would say indifferent. If she were to come home and want to work on things, I'm sure I would take her up on it. But right now, I need to look out for me. And given WW's reckless spending habits, I'll be taking care of the finances first.

It's such a shame, because she's going to crash so hard at some point. Maybe I'm just having a bad day (week?), but right now, I'm just not motivated to put any more energy into saving this thing. The house is finally clean (and WW is not exactly neat, which is one of our favorite argument topics), and frankly I'm enjoying it. I'm not constantly picking up after her.

I've just come to realize over the last couple of weeks how immature WW is. When I was deep in love with her, I didn't care/notice. But now that my love has eroded, it's painfully obvious. She's messy, financially irresponsible, dishonest, etc. I'm the exact opposite. I always thought that our strengths/weaknesses complemented each other well, but she obviously got sick of it, and I guess I'm realizing that maybe she's right. Maybe I'm in the fog too; I don't know.

Looks like I need to catch up on MB news. Unfortunately, I'm on site with a client this week... not quite as easy to post as when I'm working from home...

well i wanted to throw in my 2 cents FWIW. you have to say what is said here and gleam from what you can and use it for you and your situation. however, we are all aware of how our emotions on this rollercoaster change sometimes from minute to minute. just re-read this thread from the beginning and look at how your emotions and outlook has changed in such a short time. i bet if you were to talk to SH again soon, you would again feel differently.

maybe using the MB seminar as the line in the sand for you would be best for you. i chewed on this as well but just didn't think it would benefit my situation and we don't have the money regardless whether or not it was a money back guarantee. you could ask her to go to it and if after attending and doing some of the follow ups she still wants to D then so be it. but you've just got to be able to live w/what could happen.

remember we are all just doing what we can for as long as we can on this roughroad in this marathon race. don't do anything in haste no matter what you feel, sleep on it and approach the situation fresh the next day. but i think until plan B or D is all you can think about then you should still stay in plan A. always plan A until plan B or D. because in reality plan A is a way of life in any R you have and if there are things that you need to work on then you need to do it even if it's for another M in the future.

thank you for sharing about your session. i'm glad that it sounds like i was able to convey what SH has told me but what you said that SH has told you. although he never specifically told me about plan B and no kids so thanks for relaying that. i of course, have never thought i could go to plan B and still don't think i could. i'll probably try and get a session w/SH next week, not sure but will keep all posted. it is expensive but again you have to do what's best for you as the BS. i say that in that way because of course the WS believe they are doing what is best for them.

wish you continued strength and prayers and a safe trip back, RR

I thought about using the seminar as an ultimatum of sorts. It's just that I've really gotten to the point where I don't know if it's worth it. I find it amazing that my opinion has changed so much, but I still feel the same way today. I even emailed BIL to tell him that I'm ready to move on. I emailed WW and told her that I will be refinancing my truck, and she should think about refinancing her car, to get them in our respective names.

I was willing to forgive WW for the last 3 months. But the fact that she continues to show me no respect whatsoever has taken it's toll. I want to get on with my life. True, I'm only 27, but I'm not going to waste any more time hoping for something that I have limited control over.

It's her loss. She is going to crash, and crash hard. Too bad I won't be there for her. Roughroad, you're right that I should only do Plan A until I can only think about Plan B or D. I think I'm at the point where all I'm thinking about is D. I'm in no rush, as there are still 3 months before we can get a no-fault divorce (and I'm not interested in going after her for adultery), but I really think I've made up my mind. I'll see how I feel in a couple days, but it's not looking good for the M.

"out of our greatest fears, come our bravest deeds."

"whatever happens....trust HIM."

prayers to you.

how's it going phantom?

I've become a lurker in recent weeks due to traveling, and being VERY busy with work.

Not much change in my situation. I haven't talked or emailed with WW since Monday 7/5. She had a new credit card sent to the house (not sure why she didn't use her address). Her other one has a balance of $11,000, and it maxes out at $12,000, so she's showing no signs of slowing down.

I spoke to a lawyer this week, and he is drawing up the separation agreement, so we can make this legal. He said that she will be responsible for her debt, and that she's not a good candidate for alimony. So if it gets to that point, she won't have much to gain by taking me to court. I was fairly relieved after that discussion.

I'm leaving the door open, but I'm protecting myself, and preparing to move on with my life. I'm sure she'll call me in the next week or two, as she'll need her new credit card to pay her rent on August 1. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> The hole just gets deeper and deeper, and she only paid the minimum payment this month.

Driving up to DE this weekend to help my mom buy a new car. She was going to get Toyota Rav4, but I think she's leaning toward a Ford Escape. I have an Explorer and love it (though I miss my Ranger...)

I guess that's about it for me...

it's still okay to do plan A until you are in some other plan. do what you can, when you can, for as long as you can. choices are being made for you and you have to react or respond accordingly. very good to still leave the door open.

don't know what to say about the "ford" thing, i'm a chevy girl myself. i drive a chevy silverado and will probably for the rest of my life. once you go truck you can't go back, plus i've been told by several men over the years, that it's incredibly sexy for a woman to drive a truck, i wonder why that is?

keep us posted when you can and it's okay to still have hope, don't give up, you are capable of more than you ever dreamed. just read more here of all the testimonials and how things were turned around. prayers to you.

I hope all you truck people here at MB won't lose respect for me... I drive a Golf.

Phantom, I'm glad to hear from you. Your WW is a loon. I've heard lots of stories about WSes going crazy with credit cards. What gives?

Glad to hear you're protecting yourself. Needless to say I hope everything plays itself out quickly.

GC