Hello all of you (from a subdued blonde bimbo BV)

Well have just got back. Have been wandering aimlessly around the local nearby town in a sort of ‘daze’ thing.. (Yes the same town JL that I had accidental contact with OM last Sat).. He isn’t there though but working away.

Well. Here I am. I have a badge to prove it that I am a bb…It says “Not only am I intelligent…but I am blonde too..)

Thank you for your replies. I don’t know what I would do without you. Yes I needed all you said to me. You are all right. I came back and logged on. I thought ‘I don’t care what they hit me with, just let someone hit me’…

To sum up before I reply to you properly.. Here is the lowdown.

Yes I have had 1 glass of wine with lunch
Didn’t buy any to bring back though
H (who is normally laid back and placid stated he would go loopy if I did)

Here I am ‘bearing’ my all (well not quite all) with total strangers across the world yet..

If I didn’t who would I have to talk some sense into me? You guys are right there for me and I do appreciate it.


Dear K,

Thanks for stepping in here. If I seem not ‘with it’ it is because I have just taken a sedative (my sleeping tablet) just to numb my stupid fogged up brain.

Thank you for sharing what you have done. I am sorry how sad and painful you & W’s situation was and still is. I really can’t imagine being in that situation which you have both had to face. You have been through very painful times.

I feel ashamed how I must seem to be ‘pining’ for OM. You are right K:

You are in an emotional affair. Harley likens these to addictions---chemical substance addictions. Crack cocaine. Heroin. Nicotine. All these substances are highly addictive, they will cause the addict to do ridiculous things to get their fix, and they're all very tough to kick. Your affair provides some of the same types of brain chemistry as these substances (thankfully not all of them).

I am in this state of ‘brain chemistry’. How do I make it stop quicker than the below option? There must be a quicker way.


As an addict, the only effective way to quit is to go cold turkey. You need to do this for yourself. You need to have help with accountability---something that your husband would probably be happy to do for you. The sooner you do this, the better off you will be.

I have accountability with close friend and advisor, as well as H, but as you say when your brain is acting this way an addict will do things to get their fix.

I have gone 16 weeks nearly with NC and done well. However it isn’t getting easier with time but harder. I emailed his sister and left my new mobile number ‘incase’ she spoke to OM and happened to mention it. That is the state I am in.

Om is moving soon. He won’t get in touch with me I know that, because I think I am just ‘in the past now’.

Why do I have this need for closure? I don’t want closure really I guess in my heart do I?

Dear KY4

I have since been able to come out of the fog enough that I don't even think I crave those phone calls.

If I eat loads of chocolate and muffins will it help?? Seriously though I truly wish I was at your stage. I can’t even imagine getting to your stage. It seems totally beyond me.

Out of the ‘options’ you gave, I think the following may be true:

Let's say, OM thinks about you all the time and misses you and would like to resume contact, then what???

I would like to resume text contact. I miss it. I know that would leave me getting emotionally entangled again though. I know I would resume contact if how I am now is anything to go by

Or OM doesn't think of you at all, and wishes you never spoke to him again, then what?? Then I would be really sad and back to an even worse state than ‘not knowing’ now

Or he thinks of you, misses you, but can't have contact with you, then what????

This is probably the hardest one to accept..

Thanks for believing in me KY4. Keep those muffins rolling overseas to BB/BV. Can you put additives in them to make me sane again?? Wish you could zap some in.

I am truly glad that you are back to making sane and rational decisions! I used to be like that… at least you are not getting my ‘wining’ posts any more for:

Please post RAP
Please post RAP
Please post RAP

I hope she does post again soon though????? May have to start my chant again.


Dear Uphill, thanks for replying. I know JL isn’t able to post until evening time, so I really appreciate you stepping in here too.


You are totally right. I am absolutely still emotionally ‘glued’ to OM in my heart. As Carder says in his book it will need ‘fish hooks’ in this type of A I have been in.

H has just come in by the way, and trying to get me to talk, but I simply can’t ‘open up’ any more. He has now gone away offended because I don’t want to talk. I said to him sometimes I can and sometimes I can’t. Am sorry because today is a ‘cant time’.

You said:

He will start to wonder if he truly wants a sterile life void of intimacy. He will fantasize himself about what it would be like to have a partner who IS into him - emotionally, spiritually and physically.
I know you are right K, but I am afraid of myself. Afraid because of the fact that I seemed to ‘connect’ to Om emotionally and phys. I am ashamed to say this.I have a fear now, because OM is the only person I have had this ‘connection’ thing with. Ok I am talking fog talk I know. You know that and I know that.

Perhaps you need to be jolted out of the complacency that you can take for granted that your H, you good ol' dependable H will be there for you no matter what. Perhaps you need to see that your H, while flawed (as are we all) is nonetheless a good man, with plenty to offer some other woman who will know how to appreciate him. Someone who won't make his second choice status so blatantly obvious.

I know you are right again.

I am trying to inject a bit of crazy humour into myself, in this post, as the sleeping tablet is starting to work, so am getting a bit drowsy.

I will come back here tonight and read all your posts again. Thank you for your time, and for being a special caring 4x4 band in this!

Lots of love to you all

Hello all of you (from a subdued blonde bimbo BV)

Well have just got back. Have been wandering aimlessly around the local nearby town in a sort of ‘daze’ thing.. (Yes the same town JL that I had accidental contact with OM last Sat).. He isn’t there though but working away.

Well. Here I am. I have a badge to prove it that I am a bb…It says “Not only am I intelligent…but I am blonde too..)

Thank you for your replies. I don’t know what I would do without you. Yes I needed all you said to me. You are all right. I came back and logged on. I thought ‘I don’t care what they hit me with, just let someone hit me’…

To sum up before I reply to you properly.. Here is the lowdown.

Yes I have had 1 glass of wine with lunch
Didn’t buy any to bring back though
H (who is normally laid back and placid stated he would go loopy if I did)

Here I am ‘bearing’ my all (well not quite all) with total strangers across the world yet..

If I didn’t who would I have to talk some sense into me? You guys are right there for me and I do appreciate it.


Dear K,

Thanks for stepping in here. If I seem not ‘with it’ it is because I have just taken a sedative (my sleeping tablet) just to numb my stupid fogged up brain.

Thank you for sharing what you have done. I am sorry how sad and painful you & W’s situation was and still is. I really can’t imagine being in that situation which you have both had to face. You have been through very painful times.

I feel ashamed how I must seem to be ‘pining’ for OM. You are right K:

You are in an emotional affair. Harley likens these to addictions---chemical substance addictions. Crack cocaine. Heroin. Nicotine. All these substances are highly addictive, they will cause the addict to do ridiculous things to get their fix, and they're all very tough to kick. Your affair provides some of the same types of brain chemistry as these substances (thankfully not all of them).

I am in this state of ‘brain chemistry’. How do I make it stop quicker than the below option? There must be a quicker way.


As an addict, the only effective way to quit is to go cold turkey. You need to do this for yourself. You need to have help with accountability---something that your husband would probably be happy to do for you. The sooner you do this, the better off you will be.

I have accountability with close friend and advisor, as well as H, but as you say when your brain is acting this way an addict will do things to get their fix.

I have gone 16 weeks nearly with NC and done well. However it isn’t getting easier with time but harder. I emailed his sister and left my new mobile number ‘incase’ she spoke to OM and happened to mention it. That is the state I am in.

Om is moving soon. He won’t get in touch with me I know that, because I think I am just ‘in the past now’.

Why do I have this need for closure? I don’t want closure really I guess in my heart do I?

Dear KY4

I have since been able to come out of the fog enough that I don't even think I crave those phone calls.

If I eat loads of chocolate and muffins will it help?? Seriously though I truly wish I was at your stage. I can’t even imagine getting to your stage. It seems totally beyond me.

Out of the ‘options’ you gave, I think the following may be true:

Let's say, OM thinks about you all the time and misses you and would like to resume contact, then what???

I would like to resume text contact. I miss it. I know that would leave me getting emotionally entangled again though. I know I would resume contact if how I am now is anything to go by

Or OM doesn't think of you at all, and wishes you never spoke to him again, then what?? Then I would be really sad and back to an even worse state than ‘not knowing’ now

Or he thinks of you, misses you, but can't have contact with you, then what????

This is probably the hardest one to accept..

Thanks for believing in me KY4. Keep those muffins rolling overseas to BB/BV. Can you put additives in them to make me sane again?? Wish you could zap some in.

I am truly glad that you are back to making sane and rational decisions! I used to be like that… at least you are not getting my ‘wining’ posts any more for:

Please post RAP
Please post RAP
Please post RAP

I hope she does post again soon though????? May have to start my chant again.


Dear Uphill, thanks for replying. I know JL isn’t able to post until evening time, so I really appreciate you stepping in here too.


You are totally right. I am absolutely still emotionally ‘glued’ to OM in my heart. As Carder says in his book it will need ‘fish hooks’ in this type of A I have been in.

H has just come in by the way, and trying to get me to talk, but I simply can’t ‘open up’ any more. He has now gone away offended because I don’t want to talk. I said to him sometimes I can and sometimes I can’t. Am sorry because today is a ‘cant time’.

You said:

He will start to wonder if he truly wants a sterile life void of intimacy. He will fantasize himself about what it would be like to have a partner who IS into him - emotionally, spiritually and physically.


I know you are right K, but I am afraid of myself. Afraid because of the fact that I seemed to ‘connect’ to Om emotionally and phys. I am ashamed to say this.I have a fear now, because OM is the only person I have had this ‘connection’ thing with. Ok I am talking fog talk I know. You know that and I know that.

Perhaps you need to be jolted out of the complacency that you can take for granted that your H, you good ol' dependable H will be there for you no matter what. Perhaps you need to see that your H, while flawed (as are we all) is nonetheless a good man, with plenty to offer some other woman who will know how to appreciate him. Someone who won't make his second choice status so blatantly obvious.

know you are right again.

I am trying to inject a bit of crazy humour into myself, in this post, as the sleeping tablet is starting to work, so am getting a bit drowsy.

I will come back here tonight and read all your posts again. Thank you for your time, and for being a special caring 4x4 band in this!

Lots of love to you all

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

BV,

The comments by Uphill and K are far more germaine than you seem to realize. I was thinking last night you need to read the posts by "helpful_person" and lo and behold she pops up today and posts. Read her current post and then find her first posts here.

You will see what Uphill is talking about.

As for K, you are hearing from the Man. I respect him more than anyone on this site. Partially because he has been here since this site opened and he is an OLD MAN <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> , and partially because he taught me so much about what OPPORTUNITY really means. So time you should read his full story and you will be blown away. He counseled with Steve Harley, and if there is anyone that knows this stuff it is K. Listen to this man.

BV, you say you don't have a purpose in life right now. You say you are looking for a new job. You say you feel worthless. I think you are right. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Permit me to explain. Go back to that list of mine and then read your responses. Do you notice something kind of odd about your responses??? I did. The ONLY items on that list that you are doing are about YOU. Telling your H what you need from him and talking about YOUR feelings for OM. And working on improving YOUR sex life.

All others which require no more than a modicum of grace you are NOT doing.

You have lost your purpose in life, because your life has become all about YOU. You are not worth much because NO ONE else matters to you, thus you are not worth much to anyone. You are confused because you are going in circles, you are drugging yourself with alcohol and sleeping tablets so you won't feel what you claim you want to feel PASSION.

You are not lost BV, you are just looking at your navel and thus the scenery never changes.

One of the reasons OM is on your mind so much is that you are trying to escape, what you have done and what you need to do. Hence you go to a place in your mind where all is perfect, but it was not, it is not, and it would never be perfect. But you like the illusion, it comforts you. Meanwhile you turn down the comfort of your H.

If you want a life, then it is time you adhered to your faith. It is time you did as Jesus did. It is time you quit focusing on yourself and what you did and reach out to those that need your help. Your life will gain purpose, your life will gain worth, and your family will flourish. You need to reach out to your H and help HIM. You need to do the same with your children. Your focus should be on making the future something YOU, YOUR H, YOUR FAMILY and YOUR FRIENDS enjoy. That is the purpose of your life BV.

It is time you reversed the things you do and don't do on that list. It is time to quit seeking comfort in a glass of wine, or a pill, and seek it in the arms of your H. In the joy of your family. In the comfort of friendships.

Quit running BV and start doing. I know you are depressed and for that you need to see a Doc. But, you can turn this around by starting to focus on the loved ones around you and not the GHOST of a fantasy. You will find in the comfort your family will give you if only you give them some as well.

Please go back and read your answers to me and see how lame they are for not at least thanking your H, for at least telling him you do want him in your life, etc. They are weak excuses. Quit using them.

I must go now but I hope you have time to read this and think about it today. Go read helpful_person's threads. You will see what you can and may well lose if you keep this up.

God Bless,

JL

Dang that JL is good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BV, you aren't breaking down and ready to call him are you???? don't do it. Fill your mouth with chocolate and stay away from the phone.

{{{hug}}}

Warning: the following contains sexually explicit information. Do not read if you are easily offended.

BV - I am much older than you, but always had the "O" problem. But it is very easy to fix. I went to a doctor about it, and she advised me to exercise my PC muscles.

Those are the muscles that shut off your urine. Gee, how do I say this? Oh well, we are good friends. All during the day, you pretend like you are shutting off your urine, and close the muscles. You hold them for 10 seconds, and do it 10 times in a session. Do about 10 sessions a day.

In about 2 weeks, your muscles will be stronger. Then when you do the "no frills" thing with your husband, you use these newly developed muscles.

I have told many friends about this, and it works every time.

So now you have something to do, to help yourself and your husband out. By July 21, I would like a report. Good luck.

Daaahling BV ....

Here is a 2X4 from me as well....

You are not only a Wayward Wife ...

YOU are also "the other woman".

Think about this.

There is another woman .... a member of our "sisterhood" .... someone as worthy of your friendship and support as FL, RAP, Kiwi, Jelly, and all the other WW's you are sharing with ...

The OM has a WIFE and a FAMILY ....

and ~you~ dear one.....

conspire to steal away her happiness and her security ....

? why ?


Because you WANT to.

The OW mentality is not pretty .... and you're infected.

You could be OW to any of the BW here on MB who take their time to help you recovery YOUR marriage, YOUR dignity, YOUR chance for happiness...

and yet.... YOUR FAMILY is not enough ....

no........

YOU WANT this other wife's husband ..... because it's what you want.

If I were married to the OM you covet .... I am convinced you'd not hesitate to screw me over in a heartbeat! Because YOU WANT what YOU WANT. If the OM you covet were RAP's husband, you'd screw her over as well.

Sisterhood..... you may choose to betray the sacred sisterhood and call OM. Why? Because you WANT to. We are NOT supposed to screw up our sister's marriages.

The wife you hurt is no less wonderful than the Marriage Builders BW's who reach out to help YOU.

But, BV, you bite the hand(s) that feed you. If you knew your OM's wife was dying inside with pain and agony .... would you give any care to how you view your right to help yourself to her life, her marriage, to ruin the sanctity of her marriage?

How's your head feel after that little bit of 2X4 reality bite?

If you choose to live your life driven by emotional chaos.... sooner or later.... your life will be run into the ditch .... dragging behind you the lives of OM's WIFE, his CHILDREN, and his entire FAMILY who won't see you coming .... because you snuck up on them.

The OW .... not a very pretty picture..... and the sisterhood suffers.

Pep

<small>[ July 07, 2004, 02:35 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Dear JL,

Ok. I asked for it and I got it..

You said:

You have lost your purpose in life, because your life has become all about YOU. You are not worth much because NO ONE else matters to you, thus you are not worth much to anyone. You are confused because you are going in circles, you are drugging yourself with alcohol and sleeping tablets so you won't feel what you claim you want to feel PASSION.


One of the reasons OM is on your mind so much is that you are trying to escape, what you have done and what you need to do. Hence you go to a place in your mind where all is perfect, but it was not, it is not, and it would never be perfect. But you like the illusion, it comforts you. Meanwhile you turn down the comfort of your H.


It is time you reversed the things you do and don't do on that list. It is time to quit seeking comfort in a glass of wine, or a pill, and seek it in the arms of your H. In the joy of your family. In the comfort of friendships.


I have no reply to make because what you have said is true of me. I realize that I am contributing NOTHING to my marriage or recovery of my H hurts or needs.

I realize my focus is on OM and missing contact and working with him.

I realize therefore that I am a selfish person and am not contributing to the happiness of others around me.

In my defense I say nothing because I have nothing to say, except that I do believe ‘I am lost’ and cannot be restored back because :

1. I still can’t forgive myself
2. How can I seek to help others when I can’t even help myself get up
3. My H deserves better than me.
4. What I have done is ‘worse’ in my own eyes because of the nature of it

I will not chase after OM or initiate contact with phone.
However I cannot see me moving on beyond a ‘friendship/companion’ sort of M.
My H is so easy going that by my just being here seems to be enough for him
The true & intimate ‘blending’ in a M iguess will elude me.
I will just try to fulfill all the needs of my family and H and be content.

Maybe I am too down on the withdrawal and fog side of things to accomplish much on the list.

Maybe I have a ‘dark side’ to me which NC mentioned but because it is only me who posts you can’t see it? You can only see my side Of things?I will try to anylise my dark front to tellyou.

Sorry about that everyone. I can do nothing about it anymore.

I know you must all think I am pining away and making a fool over someone who doesn’t care about me anyway.

If I shouldn’t be at this stage now after 4 months NC then you can see there is no hope for me.

I guess the last 16 months of the devils work has finally destroyed me…

KY4.Thanks for being there,

I need a real huge massive chunky sized bar of choc or muffins at the moment, and to celloptape them in! I do appreciate you and your posts.

Believer, I have just bought a book on ‘tips for explosive O’s’. that tip was in there, and I was going to try it! Thanks for being there too.

Am struggling a bit with some more guilt. I feel sad if I have upset NCwalker and RAP, I wonder if he thought I should have had the same 4x4s as RAP but didn’t, aswe were posting the same sort of things being in the samestage.

I wouldn’t want to hurt them for the world. I feel a bit down about this. Maybe I talk and share too much and I shouldn’t any more.]

Perhaps I am hurting people.

Dear Pep,

Your words hit home. I amtoo tired from the sleepingtablet (anotherone) to be pouty liped or moody about it or even to flip some non existent pancakes..

You sisters meana lot to me.

I amthe FWW who cares for nothing and no one reallydo I?
See I told you I weren’t worth loving

Youguys and RAP are though. I care for you all.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

BV - I am still worried about RAP. While I do post to her and NC, I am surprised that RAP has not posted back. NC says she does not want to post.

However, I have my doubts, or maybe it is just me.

BV,

You have not been in NC for 16 weeks, you went to town and say OM the other day, and that set you back. You know it did, it is clear from your posts as well.

Forgiveness of yourself is NOT a requirement that you treat your H well. That forgiveness will come when you KNOW your H truely has recovered and you know he has not, because you have not helped him.

You have yet to figure you that this is a TEAM sport you are playing. IF you help your H, he can better help you. If you forgive your H, the things you hold against him and I suspect you do, then he will be better able to heal and you will be able to forgive yourself.

BV I am a physicist and one of the famous laws of motion is that for every action there is an opposite and equal reaction. It is NOT entirely true in the MB world, but it is surprisingling close to true. As you reach out and help your H, you will be helping yourself.

IF you want out of this mess, the best way out is right into it. You cannot go around it, there are no magic potions. You must go through it, and the direction through it is via your H. Not only is he there to help you, he is the touch stone for your recovery. You are making some very very severe "disrespectful judgements" of your H and these judgements have clouded your judgement for some time. It is time to stop the DJ's and it is time to forgive your H for whatever it is you are mad at him for.

You may think he is a weak little man that is just happy to be in your presence. A man without desire,or needs or faith, and surely not strength. But, these are ALL DJ's and lies. For the truth is clear in his actions. You just don't want to face the truth that you had the better man, and you went for the spiritually weak and morally bankrupt man.

Time to face it, you made a BAD choice. You have hurt alot of people and YOU cannot undo that. But, you can make their future happier, you can make yours happier. I understand the fog, and I know you are still in it, but don't dig yourself deeper into it. At least help your H to have the strength to endure it by thanking him for trying, and for loving you.

You can feel sorry for yourself all you want, and there are many things to be sorry for, BUT...it won't help you, your family, your H, or even the OM.

Actions BV, actions are required for you to begin to deal with the withdrawal. It takes time and patience, but it also takes effort.

We are here, and we aren't going anywhere. Pep, I, and others are your worst nightmare, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> because we are NOT going to give up on you. You are stuck with us. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> As my teenage says "sucks for you", but...there you have it. You can run but you cannot hide, we will be here, and we won't give up.

Think about that. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God Bless,

JL

BV- wow you sure got it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You need to step up to the plate girl and start helping yourself, instead of feeling sorry for yourself.

Make the effort. Do you love your H????? You have read MB, you see the dynamics of the A, right? Can't you fix your brain, and start thinking thru the fog, or do you just choose not to, and why if so do you choose not to recover from this????

Dr. Phil would say, what are you getting out of this? And, is it working for ya???

What is keeping you holding on to these false feelings for OM????

Stop your crying, stop your drinking, and pick yourself up out of the gutter and start fixing this mess you helped create with OM.

I need chocolate!!!!
love me - KY

Actions BV, actions are required for you to begin to deal with the withdrawal. It takes time and patience, but it also takes effort.

Lost the first part of my post to your reply. Thanks for being there JL. & pep

Will keep taking your 4x4’s to help me.


Dear KY4,

Was just logging off then saw your reply:

Make the effort. Do you love your H????? You have read MB, you see the dynamics of the A, right? Can't you fix your brain, and start thinking thru the fog, or do you just choose not to, and why if so do you choose not to recover from this????

You are right. I do want to fix my brain and come through the fog Have you got an potion to recommend me??

What is keeping you holding on to these false feelings for OM???? Am trying, know what I have to do. You guys talking straight to me have been great. I do read it do digest it.

Time will tell If am acting on it.

Does anyone out there need a BB(blonde bimbo) (with chocolate addiction) BV for a secretary??? (sobsob – no answer)

Stocking up on the choc tomorrow…

Kas
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Dear JL,

Will reply to your post in the morning for you to read tomorrow and Pep's too.

Thanks both of you,,

Just taking my hot water up to bed...(No not my H i really mean my hot water bott)

Guess my job description should now read:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Blonde Bimbo (but a Broken Vessell)
with serious choclate and muffin addiction <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
seeks secretarial employment...
Must accept her trusty hot water bottle though (she feels the cold loads - even in summer!!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Answers would be gratefully appreciated asap, as she is known for her pouty lip mood and flip personality.... (defined by her good reference....Pep!!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Night guys

Check you out tomorrow

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Good night BV-BB, sweet dreams.

KY

BV,

It is NCWalker responding at the request of RAP. She felt I might be able to help you because you mentioned the “dark side” thing. I personally am pretty down right now and feeling very alone. Just like you. I don’t want someone I can’t have, I want someone who doesn’t want me.

I am not really in the mood to be wise. I don’t think your really in the mood to read wise. I am not perfect. I am not a knight. I am just a guy trying to scratch out his existence on this planet just like you. Trying to understand this turmoil that is called life.

WORTH

BV, the way I feel right now, the loneliness I feel, should be statement enough that you have worth. I am not some great sage, or popular hero. I am just a guy on the other side of the world as you who is out of gas himself. What feels like my last bit of strength, my last bit of compassion is now going to you. You have worth, or it would not be so.

PAIN

BV, what is pain? When you garden I bet your want to get in the nettles and mites. And it hurts. What do you do, stare at it? You can, if you like the pain. Most people I know pull the thorn out right away. Pain is a way of knowing that something is wrong. Here comes another NCWalker analogoy, right? Wrong. It’s b*llsh1t. You and I are feeling emotional pain. A lot more insidious. It starts as an ache and only grows to pain in time. And it HURTS. I am feeling lots right now. Sorry. Misery loves company. Sucks doesn’t it. It HURTS and HURTS and you look for this d@mn thorn to pull out and you can’t because your pain is tied in to someone else. It is like they put it there and only they can make it go away. And they can’t because it is wrong (your case) or they just don’t want to (my case). And sometimes you don’t want it to go away. Sometimes the pain is almost a comfort. I hurt right now and I am sorry I hurt, but I like it. I can use it as an excuse. It is a get out of jail free card. I don’t have to struggle because I can hurt. I can just wait this out on the sidelines. I’m not even going to watch the game. I am going to sit in my pain, catch what crumbs of sympathy I can and ENJOY being alone.

It is like a sanctuary. People will leave me alone because no one wants to be around someone in pain. So I don’t have to work at life anymore. It HURTS, but I am safe. And I can learn to live with the hurt. I guess I’ll have to because I don’t see it going away. No one wants to do anything about MY pain. No one can about YOURS.

So where does that leave us BV? Two kindred spirits. Kindred how? Through PAIN. Yep. We are two friggin peas in the same pod. To lepers in the colony. To runts in the litter struggling to get off mamas milk, but we are too weak to struggle.

All that seemed good in my life is gone. Fading. Lost. The pain has grabbed my soul. I really feel like quitting too. It doesn’t feel like RAP can extend anything to me right now. It doesn’t feel like I have any reassurance she loves me. I love her with all my heart. I prayed to God over the weekend to stop loving her, I couldn’t take it anymore. She hurt me more than I thought possible. And I did my best to rescue her. Put myself through an ordeal coming back up here. Confronted OM, surprised RAP in her hour of need. Some knight. She thinks I’m a friggin dragon for chasing her lover away. We have had some conversations since, all about HIM. And some fights. More stupid stuff.

Now I just want to stop existing. It hurts too much. I can’t think of anything else except how my darling RAP doesn’t love me. That’s my pain.

How about yours? Dead marriage. Stoic, solid husband. Probably respected by your neighbors. BV’s husband is a good man. He is giving. You can count on him. Married him because it was the right thing to do. Solid, solid, solid, isn’t he. Dependable. Utilitarian, like an old reliable lorry. Start the family. Raise the kids. Model story for you, huh? Not a fairy tale. More like a chapter out of a book on economics. Fit the mold. Screw the mold. That isn’t happiness. Then your OM comes along. No lorry there, he is a sports car. Made you feel like a woman. Made you feel alive. BROKE the mold and it felt GOOD! Soul said this is evil, EVIL. Heart said I don’t care. Heart won and you gave in. Eventually soul got the better of you. You broke it off. RIGHT thing to do. BACK to that ****ING mold that made you SO HAPPY. Then the pain starts. Probably a big shock to you, not creeping in like mine. You don’t WANT the mold anymore. Is that your pain? Do I have it right?

So what now BV? Are you and I done? Two hopeless souls?

Do you really want to say that? Do you REALLY want to quit? Probably yes. I sure do right now.

Ever been burned BV? Like a bad burn? Hot iron, hand on stove. Remember what that was like? Ever been almost run down in traffic? Whiz of the auto taking your breath away. Heart in the throat but it doesn’t fit because it is pounding so hard. Almost makes you want to go lay down in the dark you are so scared?

Ever been in PAIN?

Ever see a small child, BV, innocent. World is new to a small child. Wonderous. Nothing is bad. It is all magical. Small, beautiful child. Tow-headed, blue-eyed. That soft, white skin only a child has. That magical curiosity about the world. Wandering into the kitchen. Looking at the pot on the stove, seeing the bubbles in the boiling water, reaching for the handle, not really knowing what is coming next. Spellbound by the wonderment of a new thing. What are you gonna do BV? Sit there in your pain while the waif discovers his own. Has to learn sometime, doesn’t he BV. Hell know. You are going to rescue that kid. You are going to teach him about hot things in a careful manner. You are going to make sure he understands WITHOUT having to feel the pain.

That’s why you teach the kids to stay out of traffic and all the other stuff. So maybe the magic in there world can last a little longer than it did in yours.

My father was violently abused by his dad. One night, my grandpa was angry at my dad’s sister. He wanted to lock her in the pantry for punishment. Problem was the pantry had shelves and the girl wouldn’t fit in. My grandpa slammed the pantry door again and again against her trying to make her fit. My dad jumped on his dad’s back and started wailing on him to protect his sister. My grandpa threw my dad out of the house. It was winter. All my dad wore was his pajamas. He had to sleep in the barn with the animals to stay warm. While the real friggin animal was inside the house. ONLY because he was stronger, not better. My dad waited all night in that barn. In the morning, he slipped behind the wheel of the family car and waited for his monster of a dad to come out. When my grandpa came out for chores, my dad tried to run him down. Tried to kill his own father. Didn’t succeed. Got beat within an inch of his life for his efforts. My grandma picked him up and tended his wounds as best he could after the boogeyman left for the day to go drinking. Everyone was scared to help him until then.

How is that for pain, BV? My dad never told me this story. My grandma and aunt (from the pantry) did. They told me this one day when I was being an ungrateful son. You know why they told me this? Because of what my dad did after they dusted him off. Here you and I sit, wallowing in our pain. My dad got picked up and he wasn’t wallowing. He looked at my grandma in defiance and said “I am not going to be a father like the one I have.” And he kept his word. He looked up DEFIANT against pain. He did not let it beat him.

You know what my dad became that day, BV?

Hope.

You do have a purpose. Hope.

If nothing else, you can be Hope. Hope that your pain can prevent it in some other soul on this planet.

You hang on to that, BV. You hang on to that and don’t friggin quit on me and I won’t quit on you.

If you quit, then it means there is no hope. Because that is YOU right now. It’s a heavy burden, but it can be done. You think of my dad. Skinny, scrawny 12 year old. Beaten and bloody standing in the snow, shivering. In pain. In a situation that would seem hopeless. And he BECAME hope. You can do it.

You listen to JL and the others. You re-make yourself. You work on your marriage. And you can soup up that old lorry into a sports car. It will take time. But you can’t quit.

You BE that HOPE and get through this. And when you do you will be able to keep the magic in someone else’s life.

I love you,

NCWalker

BV,

There are times on this site that are really beyond description. This is one of them. Listen to the man BV.

God Bless You and NCW God Bless you too.

JL

I am so moved. I was in tears reading this post the entire time, then throw in the Grandpa story, OMG!!!

Absolutely moving NCW.

KY

NC - Great post, you have a wonderful way with words and feelings.

Pep and others - What is different about folks on this site is that they are here - MarriageBuilders.

My WH and OW know about this site, but are not interested in reading or posting. That tells me a lot.

Somehow we will drag, push, and encourage ourselves and others through this.

Dear NC,

I am just doing a long reply to you now on this thread.

I am choked up by your caring post.

Thank you for caring enough to do this.

Am just seeing kids off to school then will be back soon.

God is speaking to me today through this.

Kas <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

BV -

Glad you are still here. You have to trust that this "fog" or whatever it is will pass. Because it will.

I have much empathy for the OW, because I have seen the choices my WH's OW has made. She was a stay at home mom, with a 12 year old daughter. They are neighbors and have a beautiful home.

When her BH went to Iraq, my WH started comforting her. And it went on from there. Now her BH is back, but she left him, and her daughter, and her home to be with my WH.

The strange part to me is that she rarely comes to visit her daughter. Her WH is kind to her, and they get along fine. She spends about an hour every couple of weeks with her daughter.

And get this - she told my WH that her little girl is the most important thing in the world to her.

When all this happened, I realized that this whole thing is just crazy. She is in the "fog", or brain chemicals have gone awry. I don't know what the answer is.

As a devoted mom, I could never leave my kids (or could I?). That is what is so scary about the whole thing.

Dear NC & RAP (for suggesting it – thanks so much..) <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I guess I will start at the beginning. First of all I am (truly) glad you have sent this post.

I asked yesterday to be sent 4x4’s because I knew inside I was cracking up. The replies I have received have been varied and straight to the point. I needed each one of them.

I needed yours too this morning to wake up to.

Here I am, a woman on the other side of this planet typing a reply of this nature to address a situation which I NEVR in my life thought I would get into.

I used to live abroad (became a Christian there.) I left my job there and went to study at a Bible College.

Met my H at this college. He was kind, stable, reliable, dependable, trustworthy and faithful, and although there was no (passionate wow thing) with me I prayed to God was he the man for me?

You see I had been let down by a Christian young man when I lived abroad. I would have married him. God knew he wasn’t the right one for me though. (He bought out a sort of passionate wow thing in me, but nothing like the future OM would later do)

I took a while to get over that, but was younger and stronger then and single. Went to college. Said to God I only want to marry a man who loves you with all his heart, and who I could trust. I want to be a good, caring and loving Christian wife to the man you have for me.

I KNOW that H is the man God chose for me without a doubt. H also said that God confirmed to him that I was the woman for him. H has always always maintained that to me. I was only the ever one for him (he never had a girlfriend before me) BTW..

So, because those qualities were MORE IMPORTANT to me the ‘passion side’ thing didn’t worry me. My H loved me. I could trust him without a doubt. He cared for me.

We go on to have lovely kids. He studied for degree and then MA. He was in ministry for a time too. We honestly are truly happy in our life together and raising the kids.

We are different in the sense of me being outgoing, talkative, . In a way, it is like (forgive the illustration please Joyce) Joyce Meyer and her husband Dave, from what I have seen on Tv etc. He seems to be her stable, dependable influence.

So, H and I go through loads of things together. We lose a baby, 2 miscariages, both my parents now.

We are still going on well, but without realising it exactly we sort of ‘branched off’ into our various ministries.

Mine was working in church and being involved in loads of stuff, His was speaking ministry at various churches and studying.

We only came together at the end of the day to briefly check out how we were both getting on and to sort out the kids for the night.

We then started to (not intentionally) lose the emotional interaction between each other, and just end up doing our daily things and seeing to the kids needs.

This went on over months. We ended up drifting apart as a married couple and started to function as 2 business managers running a household almost…Yet it still felt ‘normal’ in a way.

The classic sign……….we stopped paying each other attention………& talking

Then..I start to work for Om…..

After a while, I started to get compliments on my work. How I looked etc. Dismissed them at the time not giving any matter to them.

Then, one day I brought a new outfit and got my hair done as a surprise for my H..

I walked downstairs, and he didn’t even notice! He said nothing because he really didn’t look at me and notice! (He said since, it wasn’t deliberate he sincerely didn’t notice).

As long as I look ok and not come back with purple or blue hair and way out clothes, he in his mind registers me as looking normal, so doesn’t pay much attention to what I am actually looking like! I felt that nothing I did would make any difference. He seemed caught up in his world of study etc. I started to shut off I guess from that day.

Then, Om comes back with his noticing me, listening to me and compliments work. This time I start to pay attention. I listen, take in, digest.

We started to joke about things, laugh, smile, share, and bang. There you go. He revealed his feelings, I responded and felt the same. Started texting.

There you have it. An EA with PA about to start any time….and it did.

In the book torn asunder, one of the most complex things about my type of A (entangled stage 2) A, is that both partners in the relationship almost view it as a marriage relationship and form a deep emotional and phys bond. That is why it is the emotional side which is missed more when withdrawal takes place and it is very hard to sever.

In order for this A to continue, I compartmentalized my M and A and Ministry into 3 different things. (Again a classic thing which people do in order to keep up the A)

Obviously this becomes at the expense of the Spouse on both sides, and true, I then totally switched off from my H..phys & mentally, and emotionally.

However, I don’t believe OM switched off from his wife in the same way I did for H. I think he was more ‘skilled’ at maintaining a cover then me. I don’t mean this in the sense of it was more his fault than mine, I am just thinking that.

That is why I need help from you guys and I need to really understand what is happening to me in order to deal with coping with it and then dealing with the reality of it.

You see, If I had to say what I miss most about the Om, the phys would not be on the list first. What I miss most is ‘emotional side’

Ie phone calls
Txts
Conversation
Listening
Jokes
Laughing
Phys

You see it is the ‘interactive’ things I miss. This is because for 16 months I had them in a deep way.

The phys side is a separate issue, because, again I found ‘passionate’ feelings almost for the first time in my life. These feelings I now associate with OM, and have to have help in re-channelling them to H.

For me, the withdrawal is so hard because it is the EMOTIONAL involvement which captured me first. Not the phys. That just led on to it.

How about yours? Dead marriage. Stoic, solid husband. Probably respected by your neighbors. BV’s husband is a good man. He is giving. You can count on him. Married him because it was the right thing to do. Solid, solid, solid, isn’t he. Dependable. Utilitarian, like an old reliable lorry. Start the family. Raise the kids. Model story for you, huh? Not a fairy tale. More like a chapter out of a book on economics. Fit the mold. Screw the mold. That isn’t happiness. Then your OM comes along. No lorry there, he is a sports car. Made you feel like a woman. Made you feel alive. BROKE the mold and it felt GOOD! Soul said this is evil, EVIL. Heart said I don’t care. Heart won and you gave in. Eventually soul got the better of you. You broke it off. RIGHT thing to do. BACK to that ****ING mold that made you SO HAPPY. Then the pain starts. Probably a big shock to you, not creeping in like mine. You don’t WANT the mold anymore. Is that your pain? Do I have it right?

This sums it up for me as to how I am where I am. You are right NC. Going back to an unhappy ‘mould’ isn’t what I want. I want to reshape the mould. Make it new. Such pain in thinking about this though and working it out in my mind.

This sums up why I have such trouble in forgiving myself, because I can’t even work out how much I have repented? I know I have repented, yet I know the ache and pain of withdrawal from someone I got very close to and miss.

This then produces a huge amount of guilt in me. I see my H having to cope with a wife who is missing and pining for OM (especially knowing he was a man of cloth), and that H believes he is a ‘deceiver’. I still can’t accept that either.

I see my H trying desperately to reach out to me to make me see sense.

I know he is concerned about and worried sick he will one day come home and find me having drank too much and taken tablets.

I know in my head one thing…My heart then works on blotting out what head is saying.

Thank you for thinking that I have some worth. I know I do in God’s eyes, I know I do in H’s eyes. But in MY eyes I feel I don’t.

I see you NC in your pain with RAP. You feel pain deep pain. You want your wife back. You love her. Yet you see only OM in her heart. You feel she doesn’t want you. She is still addicted to OM despite all your efforts and care.

Here I am. I want to get back into reality. I am looking into you and your pain to try to understand. I want to understand I really do. I want to learn from the pain in your heart.

PAIN

BV, what is pain? When you garden I bet your want to get in the nettles and mites. And it hurts. What do you do, stare at it? You can, if you like the pain. Most people I know pull the thorn out right away. Pain is a way of knowing that something is wrong. Here comes another NCWalker analogoy, right? Wrong. It’s b*llsh1t. You and I are feeling emotional pain. A lot more insidious. It starts as an ache and only grows to pain in time. And it HURTS. I am feeling lots right now. Sorry. Misery loves company. Sucks doesn’t it. It HURTS and HURTS and you look for this d@mn thorn to pull out and you can’t because your pain is tied in to someone else. It is like they put it there and only they can make it go away. And they can’t because it is wrong (your case) or they just don’t want to (my case). And sometimes you don’t want it to go away. Sometimes the pain is almost a comfort. I hurt right now and I am sorry I hurt, but I like it. I can use it as an excuse. It is a get out of jail free card. I don’t have to struggle because I can hurt. I can just wait this out on the sidelines. I’m not even going to watch the game. I am going to sit in my pain, catch what crumbs of sympathy I can and ENJOY being alone.

How right you are in this. I do feel my pain is tied in to someone else. I do feel it is like they put it there, and they and they alone can take it away. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

It hurts me because they (OM) cant.

It hurts you because they (RAP) wont.

It hurts me because I know I can’t have contact to get an answer to my pain from OM, yet even more pain to know there is NO answer he can give to me, or help me in my pain

It hurts you because you can have contact with RAP but her pain is tied up with OM so you can’t reach her

You are right too. Pain is almost like a comfort. Something I have wallowed in. Made excuses in. Withdrawn from all my friends and family and H for.

What is my comfort now?? Drink and sleeping tablets. They are my comfort. They can blank out my pain for a time at least.

They don’t comfort me really though. They don’t stay. They go again.

I know God is my ultimate source of breakthrough. I know that.

How low will He let me fall until I realise that?

How deep will He let me fall into the pit before I realise that?

No matter how hard I try to cover up this pit and pretend I am not in it, I will sink deeper and deeper.

Now I just want to stop existing. It hurts too much. I can’t think of anything else except how my darling RAP doesn’t love me. That’s my pain.

There are FWW who have come through out of this. I am holding out that it is true. I know how RAP is feeling because I feel no love, but I do believe there is HOPE for it and POTENTIAL for it.

My dad got picked up and he wasn’t wallowing. He looked at my grandma in defiance and said “I am not going to be a father like the one I have.” And he kept his word. He looked up DEFIANT against pain. He did not let it beat him.

By seeing your pain I understand it more. I hold onto hope. Hope that I will feel love again. Hope that RAP will feel love again.

Hope that you will have your ‘heart’ back
Hope that my H will have his ‘heart’ back

Hope that RAP and me can give our hearts back to you both

Thank you for sharing the painful story of your dad. I want to become ‘hope’ too.

So what now BV? Are you and I done? Two hopeless souls?

Yes I feel I am hopeless, but No I don’t want to quit. I want to find out if it will work. If I didn’t hang on in here how will I ever know if it could have worked, and if It was really possible to get over OM and have a new mould in my marriage?

I have a small but tiny (really tiny) fighting spirit left in me. Enough to keep me here. Enough to want to listen to you and JL and others telling me the truth.

If you quit on RAP, I will feel that there is no HOPE for me? How long will you hold on to hope for? I will feel there is no hope for someone like me if you do give up.


If you quit, then it means there is no hope. Because that is YOU right now. It’s a heavy burden, but it can be done. You think of my dad. Skinny, scrawny 12 year old. Beaten and bloody standing in the snow, shivering. In pain. In a situation that would seem hopeless. And he BECAME hope. You can do it.

I want to listen to JL, you and all the others. I want to work on my marriage. I want to love the lorry even if it never becomes a sports car..

Thank you NC.

Appreciate you so much for your time & words.

Yes JL, I will do my best to listen and ACT too.

I still can’t believe how God put you people into my life when I needed you the most.

That amazes me.

Isn’t that a sort of hope? He prepared the help for me in ADVANCE knowing I would need you people across the world who I don’t even know?

That amazes me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

It is too amazing to fully comprehend.

Kas