I haven't spoken to SH in about 8 weeks when W withdrew from the process. I needed some advice on facing the upcoming summer events as well as W's latest request that I join a pool team with her. Here's the advice.

a)He explained the rules of conversation to me. That woman are looking to just talk or chit chat whereas men are looking to solve the problem and basically end the conversation. When I look at the posts here I think that is quite true.

b)He told me to monitor my progress and not just convince myself that I'm making progress. This applies to both marriage and my IC. I would agree that this is also very true. Lot harder to rationalize if you're taking notes. He likened it to going to the gym. Easier to convince yourself your lifting more weight if you're not actually keeping records. Your brain can convince you the weight is heavier but if you've written it down you know it's the same weight.

c)The biggy. How to respond to her request to form a new team. He thought this was fantastic progress because in the past she could not have imagined having fun with me. He also told me this is a way to put a positive experience on Pool; her favorite recreational activity. If I simply sit back and wait for her present team to dry up leaving her with nothing, that Pool would forever have a negative image. I also suggested that the team be formed out of the area and he agreed. And we agreed that it would be coincidental how the new team formed out of the area. In other words it would not be so obvious that this was done on purpose. I can do this with the help of some friends whom she respects and would be part of the new team.

Finally regarding my participation at upcoming events he told me I should not be in this man's company again. This was the answer I was looking for, though I would have complied with contact for me if he thought it would help. He told me I just need to tell W that it reminds me of a painful time that I don't like to think about. Just don't make it demand but sort of a negotiation even though I know the result; i don't attend. So as always feeling much better after a SH session.

WOE

hey WOE, haven't had computer access the past few days and i'm just now getting caught up. this post was a few pages back. i just a huge smile on my face reading this for a lot of reasons. your progress, SH's validation, and the hope that's still there. way to go WOE, way to go, continued prayers to you AND your wife, RR

Sounds like you are making progress. Please don't give up, you seem to be chipping away.

Thanks RR and Believer. It's nice to have this support. It does get discouraging when I see many other cases turn one way or the other rather quickly and mine just seems to drag on with no end in sight. I can tell you that I am no longer afraid of W leaving and am prepared for any eventuality. Of course very commited to healing but comfortable with the future; whatever it holds. The reason I called SH in the first place was because of the midnight call to "cutie petootie" last week. I am going to sit W down and explain this "cause and effect" to her. I won't say that her cell phone call made me call SH and spend that money, but I will tell her that her phone call "motivated" me to make an appointment with SH. She certainly can't deny that. I will then show her her cell phone bill that documents the time parameters surrounding the ONS. She has no idea I have ever seen this let alone still holding the original after 2 1/2 yrs. I will explain to her that her late night call last week took me back to that painful night and that is precisely why I had the performance anxiety and the need to talk to Steve. I think this might make an impact without being considered a LB. After all I'm only stating the truth and not intending to dress it up or dress it down. Just state this as fact. We should really have been having these types of talks 2 1/2 yrs ago or even 3 1/2 years ago. I am such an enabler. But doesn't justify her behavior and I'll be firm on that point.

what did SH say about this approach? it sounds like a decent one to me but i was just wondering how relaying the latest session would be. would it be possible to talk to her w/out even stating you talked to SH? I just see your session as more for you and that it doesn't really go in w/what your plan to say. that's JMO and i don't have a lot of experience at this and you know your situation more than i do but like i said it's just an observation that maybe you can obtain the same goal w/out extraneous information.

RR, I was having some doubts and your post turned the tide. I won't pull out the old phone bill nor will I have this discussion. I already told her when I discovered the phone call that it effected me in the bedroom. W is not stupid and I think that may have got the point across enough for now. SH was unaware of this idea and probably would suggest against it. I think you are right on in this case. SH previously told me we are trying to add one brick at a time to this relationship. I believe by mentioning that I was aware of the midnight phone call that I probably was successful in adding another brick. To surprise her with a cell phone bill that is over 2 years old would be like dropping a wall on her as opposed to the one brick theory. So I will just continue to make my love bank deposits and hang in there. After all she is with me and he is not an option. It will inevitably fade with time. I just need a lucky break like OM leaving the team. That kind of thing could happen. Meantime I am actively trying to assemble the new team to include me and several other married couples. I have to keep reminding myself to be patient because her inviting me to join a team with her is a very positive step. I don't want to blow it. Thanks for your accurate advice. WOE

well i'm glad that i wasn't off base. i'm still learning a lot and as chris-CA123 says that i have my "training wheels" on. sometimes it's hard to know if you have a grasp on the concepts w/yourself and it helps to know when you've applied the concepts to another person's situation that it all comes together. does that make sense?

your journey has been a long one and i constantly have to keep stepping back and reminding myself that this rough road is a long one no matter what happens and i need to save my energy as SH says so that i am able to finish the race. that's what we all want to do, is to finish the race which is a marathon and not a sprint. i'm not even 6 months yet after dday so i'm still kind of bracing myself for the even more bumps and potholes on this rough road which will happen in the future.

sounds like your doubts and gut feelings served you well and SH would be proud and glad to hear how you handled the situation. again, the tremendous amount of patience and restraint is very telling and a great example for others. as my lonliness starts to set in more often than not i just have to keep reminding myself that it's not the end of the world and others have been there. continue to keep us posted and prayers to you, RR

RR, thanks for your support. I wanted to tell you the variation I took on the original plan. I was so angry last night when I saw that she again call OM on Friday after this big fight on Wednesday, that I made a note in her checkbook "Marriage Builders" $185. She saw it this morning and I explained "remember when I was very hurt that you called OM last week?, that's when I made the appointment with SH." She didn't say anything but I know it sinks in. How can it not sink in? She is questioning spending $80 to get her and our two daughters nails done and wondering if we can justify that expense. And the debit just before the $80 is $185 simply motivated by her 1 minute call to OM. How can she possibly make this all add up in the debit/credit part of her head? How foggy can you be not to have this hit home? Very frustrating some times but I am glad the way I handled it. I didn't want to lie about the call to Harley.

you know it's almost kind of funny how some things are now or how things look now given our situations. not too long ago i lied to my H and told him i hadn't received a letter he sent me and i absolutely felt horrible, i cried and cried because i lied but i just wasn't prepared for him calling me. i mean in the letter he said to call him if i wanted, i didn't realize that he would call me. anyway, i made an appt w/SH right after that and begged God to forgive me for not following my words w/actions. i even put a big post-it on my computer that says "DO WHAT'S RIGHT!!! WWJD?" to get it through my thick skull.

chris-CA123 says that if something like that comes up again to just not say anything or just say "i'll have to think about that." i guess the point being to really take a deep breath and think even harder before i speak. i knew that lying to my H was wrong but i still did it because i felt like a deer in the headlights and was unprepared for his call. i also thought maybe if my H knew i hadn't read the letter yet that he would be more apt to agree to talk to SH again, which he did. needless to say i still feel badly about something so stupid.

i even felt guilty the other day about eating a nut from a friends office w/out asking. so the next day i acted like i had just ate the nut and told her. she said that was fine that the nuts that were left were the ones that she didn't like. what is my point? again, like i said i look at things a lot differently now than i used and things that i just assumed didn't really matter now matter to me. even if i'm just a squirrel trying to get a nut <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

i think the check register thing was a good idea, subtle yet still obvious. $80 on nails, hmmm......yeah, that's money well spent <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> i wouldn't have thought much about it before but now w/POJA i think differently and agonize over the money i mispent over the years w/out any regards to how my H might feel and it was just "stuff," most of it just stupid! when i was at our house last in march i had a yard sale and sold most of the stuff i had bought over the years because it was truly just assinine for me to have bought those things. but hey i made almost $300.

you've got your own speed and like you've said before it's paying off, slowly but surely and i still wish you strength and prayers, RR

RR, you NEVER need to feel bad about your behavior during these times. In my opinion your H is 100% responsible for putting you in this unenviable position. You never knew you would need to know how to behave as a BETRAYED SPOUSE. Now that you are one, you are doing the best you can. Don't EVER feel bad for anything you are doing now. You didn't expect that you would need experience in this area when you married him. No need to apologize for your inexperience.

How does the saying go? easier said then done. i think i could easily forgive myself if i was given another chance. but when you know that you were given chance after chance to change and you didn't it's hard to swallow. i keep telling myself that now I know, will that ever be enough? i have such little contact w/my H only a call here and there and i'm just so afraid that i won't be given a chance and i was the one that was faithful. at times when i'm hurting i can't help but think about the pain that my H went through being w/me and me hurting him by just being me. but i was ignorant of what is needed and afterall doesn't that make a difference? that i hurt him out of ignorance and he has hurt me by his A and his continued A and the fact he has no interest in working on our M.

i'm just so confused and my emotions are a swirl. didn't want to seem pitiful but i guess i do sound pretty pathetic. maybe apart of it is that i still don't look like i did when we got M, weight wise and i'll think of the OW and just not like myself again. why would my H want to be w/me when he has her and the way she treats him and the way that she makes him feel, especially SF. God i miss him and it has been a long time. another cliche, you don't know what you've lost or had until it's gone. i don't know any other kind. my H was my first and only and any time i even think about the future and that maybe someone would actually want me, i just get sick to my stomach.

wow, did this thread take a turn, still praying time will be my friend, that this 20 yr old OW will lose interest, my H's heart will be turned and softened towards me, and that God will help me deal w/the feelings i have because i don't even know where to start. i have to walk out the door soon from work so i better try to compose myself. thanks for the encouragment WOE, it's just that sometimes it's easier to be encouraged then others. prayers to you, RR

" I am glad the way I handled it. I didn't want to lie about the call to Harley."

Really ... your communication skills have greatly improved. REALLY!

Good for you!

Pep

Thanks Pep. Yeah I think that little exchange in words really did speak volumes. She has called me numerous time today to see what's going on when will I be home etc. We're soooo close but still so far. It's coming. Thanks for your continued support and don't retire completely. You're a joy.

I am going to start a new thread asking women what love bank deposits their husbands make ....

Maybe you (and other men) can get some ideas.

Pep