I live in Illinois. I guess the way I understand it is I need to decide if I want to try sole or joing custody. The visitation would be the same for both just not his rights. Does that make sense?

Durham,

There are some sites on the web about laws for each individual states...some vary but usually not too much. There is more to it than sole and joint custody. Did your atty. talk to you about primary physical residential custody?

You are correct about visitation usually being the same whether joint or sole custody is established. The term "legal joint custody" allows the non-custodial parent to have influence on many aspects of the child's life. i.e. what daycare to use, what school to attend, what doctors to see, what religion to be raised as, access to medical and school records, amongst other things. Most judges tend to award this type of custody. But this does not mean the non-custodial parent has free reign when it comes to visitation.

Sole custody by definition says the custodial parent basically has all the say so. The non-custodial parents' views really hold no legal weight. This is really hard to obtain. Most judges feel it strips the non-custodial parent their right to parenthood.

Let me give you and example of something that can happen with joint legal custody. For arguements sake lets say you are catholic and you husband is jewish. If you decide to send your child to catholic school and you H is against it, he can take you to court to try to prevent this.

The other I am not clear on is that the atty. said you must file. Are these Divorce papers or what. When I talked to an atty. about my current situation he told me he could file legal seperation papers with visitation outlined within. See Durham, technically no one has custody of a child until such papers are drawn.

Durham please understand I am only trying to maybe help you understand these terms a little better. Only you know your H the best and know what he is capable of. Believe me, although as parents we try to do what is best for our kids even with divorce, it is very hard to co-parent. I know some couples are very sucessful at it but many are not.

Once again I am here if you wish to talk further.


Lisa

Dear Durham,

Does your attorney think that you are giving up many important rights with joint custody? Which rights are important to you?

Does your attorney feel that the time to fight for sole custody is now? Or can joint custody be changed to your sole custody at a later time, if some difficulty arises later?

Do any of your counselors have advice for joint custody as compared with Sole Custody? I expressed the opinion in an earlier post that Joint Custody was not desirable, but if it is important to H, and there is little real meaning to the term now, with an order of visitation, then it may be wiser to save lawyer fees now, in case you need more legal services later.

Are you still taking a low dosage of Zoloft? Do you plan to cut back after the delivery?

You seem to be in good spirits. Congratulations for keeping up your spirits.

Are your muscles and back holding up OK? I found a massage stick with rollers at a running store. I can massage my own back and legs with the rollers.


MASSAGE:
Info on Website, must buy in a store.
Rollers for self muscle stretching and easy massage of muscles of the other person.

Muscle Toning and Stretching Aids

I find it easy to use on my wife also, when I am tired myself, and my wife would like some relaxing attention.

Blessings

<small>[ June 20, 2004, 06:41 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>

I think joint is what I will do but I am going to discuss again with my attorney. The reason I was told that we must file is that if we don't the visitation will not be bound and just having it agreed upon will not mean anything. If we just agree then it could be changed. If we agree on it and file then it can't be changed. That is what my attorney told me. The other part is that I want my H to file.
How long can you wait once you file to finalize? I am not clear on this but my atty said I can do the visitation now and the rest of the details after the baby is born. I don't even know if that is a good idea but I am trying to stay sane for this baby and not have an early delivery.

Durham,

Have you just talked to one atty?

As for your question about how long before it is finalized. That really depends upon the parties. It can be stalled for quite a time if the parties cannot agree on the terms. Also it depends on how it is filed. The state I live in is a no-fault state which means if no grounds are stated in the action the parties must be living apart for 18months before the DV becomes final. Granted all the terms have been agreed upon by both parties. But if grounds are cited in the action i.e. adultery, severe mental cruelty, a DV can be obtained in a much shorter time period.


Lisa

Dear Durham,

Lisa stated it pretty well, by saying, "It depends upon the parties." If you instruct your attorney to delay proceedings after filing, your attorney can get continuances or file motions or additional discovery requests, to delay the proceedings indefinitely.

An advantage of your filing the suit for divorce might be that you could then dismiss the suit, at any time you felt it was appropriate. Of course you could file the suit again, at any time you felt appropriate, in the future, after dismissing the suit. Check with your attorney.

I believe I understand your wanting H to file the suit for divorce, I just don't think he really wants to file. It is easier to get visitation as you and H have agreed, if you file, and there are no other contested issues at the time the Visitation Agreement is approved and ordered. You might want to ask your attorney how long it will take to get things done, in Court, as H may have to sign a number of waivers to be able to have the Visitation Order approved by a judge before the delivery.

You could take the position that you want H to file, and wait to see if he does. If and when you feel that you have waited long enough, you can file then. Timing can sometimes be important, and you are there, and I really don't have a strong feeling or premonition about your timing.

If you feel that H is getting out of line, at any time, you can go to the court yourself, and ask for a protective order. Initally a protective order will ordinarily be given for a few weeks, until a more indepth hearing can be held. Court Case workers will help you with a protective order.

Write down the questions you have, and make an appointment with your attorney. Your attorney fees will be paid for by H, eventaully, so just make an appointment, sooner than later, and go over your questions, whenever you have several questions written down.

You should feel in control. You have a strong hand to play from.

It is generally unethical for other attoreys to give you advice, when you are repsresented by an attorney. Once you discharge your current attorney, then you could shop for an attorney, and talk to other attorneys. Sometimes attorneys that are good at convincing judges of their case may not be good at breaking things down for the layperson. You can ask your attorney to have someone from the firm sit in with you to explain things in lay terms. A secretary or a paralegal can sometimes speak your language better than the attorney.

Blessings

<small>[ June 20, 2004, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>

Durham,

Why do you need to decide on visitation now, before the baby is even born? I understand you having to decide on the legal custody aspects, after Lisa explained the differences, but why can't the visitation be decided on after?

I know when Paige was first born it would have ripped my heart out to let her go with anyone without me being there. Her dad used to come visit her at my house for the first few months before he started taking her to his place, and only then for a few hours.

I think if you have to let the baby go with your husband and OW you will go insane.

Maybe I'm missing something but if I were you I would do everything in my power to insure that I could keep the baby with me, especially for the first few months, if not the first few years. I didn't agree to what we have now for 8 years, and now we have true 50/50 joint custody, she lives with each of us for four months at a time. Up until than I had full legal and custodial custody, and he liberal visitation. But he wasn't my husband so that was easy for me to get. As Lisa said for you it would be very difficult.

The visitation agreement that I have presented to WH does only allow him a few hours a week at our home. He can't take the baby anywhere.
I keep wandering what he is going to do when the baby is here as I know it is going to be really hard for him to not see him. He states it will be the hardest thing he has ever done in his life. He doesn't want to come back because he doesn't love me anymore. The few times I have talked to him it seems he is really screwed up. He wants to be with OW because he loves her but also hurts because he will not see his son. I guess he will just have to get over it because he can't have both. I love it when he states I never planned for my life to be like this. Oh but I did.

Oh good, the baby will stay with in your home.

As for him, who cares, it is no longer about him. It is about baby now.

He might very well end up wanting you back, but whether you end up wanting him remains to be seen.
People change so much after a baby comes along. I know we both changed dramatically, and for the better thank God.

Take care Durham, my thoughts are with you. (Are familiar with KLOE? she is in a situation like yours)

durham,

Your WS may say he did not plan for his life to turn out like this.

Maybe he didn't, but he CHOSE for his life to turn out like this. Doesn't he get that he chose this, and chose for this to happen in his life?

One question. Why did WS lose feelings for you after the miscarriage? Seems to me instead of coming to you with the pain and healing this together with you he went somewhere else with that pain.

As long as he makes these kind of choices he has to live with the consequences.

These are all about his choices. Not yours. You were not informed and now have to make your own choices.

Try to step back from reacting emotionally. Just step back from the emotions and think about what is healthiest for you, and your baby. That just has to be #1 right now.

I don't know what to tell you to do about visitation. I am, however, praying for you and your situation.

God Bless, and I hope you contact MB counseling services. If you are following MB pricipals I believe that counseling thru MB will help you decide the correct actions in your situation. Not many counselors understand saving a marriage.

I am glad you told your WS to quit saying he doesn't love you. He is just trying to make himself feel better at your expense.

Best of luck and hugs!

Love in Christ,
Miss M

I know in all this horrible mess it's easy to lose site of the good stuff. But just think you are going to be a Mommy soon! You must be so excited, scared, nervous, anxious and about a thousand other things. Everyone keeps saying it will get better when the baby gets here and I believe them. I can just imagine what it will be like to focus on something so good, sweet and innocent, instead of all the hurt and pain. I am thinking about you as your date gets closer.

Thanks for all of your support. The closer it gets to my delivery I think the more he is stressing. He is in definite turmoil.
He is driving me nuts with his emails. He sent one talking about starting a piggy bank and an IRA. He sent another talking about making some things out of wood possibly his name. I guess he wants to feel he is a part of this.

Isn't it nice being in total control of something at this point? He is at your mercy when it comes to the baby!

Why not have your intermediary field these emails, durham?

The point of Plan B is to forget about him -- focus on your own healing. His continual contact is keeping you hoping for things to change. The only change that you need to hear is that he's dumping the b**ch.

durham,

Since you are not completely dark in plan B at this time, it might not hurt to say what AAM advice was to you.

However, I might not be so harsh. Tell him that you want to reconcile, that you do love him and want a family together with baby, you want to fulfill his en's. Let him know that he did not communicate to you what he needed and you had no choice in the decisions. How can he say he doesn't love you when he did not give you a chance? He should have talked to you about his pain and not given that to someone else. You had a covenent together that HE broke by confiding in the opposite sex. I don't buy that he had no feelings for you after your miscarriage. He got you pregnant again didn't he?

Sorry, it just doesn't wash.

FOGSPEAK.

He might have at least told you of his pain and disconnectedness and given you a chance. That he can give you a chance by NC with ow, and letting you give things a whirl. After all he did love you when you married and trade vows with you. That your child makes it all a different ballgame.

You have to protect you and baby from any hurt and anguish as far as you are able. This is Plan B. To help you cope where you could not in Plan A. To preserve your love. And I see you still have a bit of love there. This is why Plan B works. You still have some of that love going on.

However, until there is no contact that is not possible. If he wants completely out of the marriage, then consequences are as follows: visitation as you have stated and as lawyer has retiterated.

Just my very humble opinion. I am still urging you to contact Mr. Harley. I think Professional MB counseling might help you to decide what is best for ALL of the parties concerned. And I don't mean ow. Sorry, she has given up her own child in the fog. You will protect your child. I know this. YOU ARE WORTHY. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Best of luck and prayers for you and baby. :)And prayers for your WS also. Perhaps your WS needs the most prayers right now. For God to soften his heart towards you, the mother of his child, the love of his life when you took your wedding vows together.

Hon, I know you are hurting. I don't want to give you bad advice. I am concerned that you get counseling in tune with this website. It is very, very good here, all about saving families, marriages, and life all the way around.

Continue to make choices that are healthiest for you and your precious child now.

Love in Christ,
Miss M

<small>[ June 23, 2004, 01:55 AM: Message edited by: Miss M ]</small>

Very well said, Miss M

I agree 100%. I too sense that there is still love between Durham and her husband.

I have been in her situation and know that babies have a way of bringing people back together. The miracle of a newborn baby has a way of invoking other miracles.

Very good advise in my opinion!