Hello All.

After over 1 year in Plan B, I have spoken to my STBXH. In my country, one must have lived apart for 2 years to seek a divorce, so I have another 7 months to go.

It was a really long conversation, like about 4 hours, a lot of issues were discussed. He has had a lot of time to think about choices in life. I asked him if he wanted a divorce, he couldn't answer that at first, he said that was "too much of an emotional question".

Oh Please!!! The man had an affair, moved out, hasn't contacted me in over 1 year .... And he was dithering about whether he wanted a divorce. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

We talked for a while, and eventually he concluded that was what he wanted. We talked about divorce procedures, after some to-ing and fro-ing, he decided he would file the papers in January. (After he comes back from Texas, where he is taking the Concubine to visit his parents <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> grrrrrrrrr).

Since he was the one who left, I'm pleased he has undertaken to sort out the papers. However, I am wary of his previous history with procrastination too. I wasn't pleased when he suggested we should split the bill for filing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I went into the issue of financial inequity and got nowhere. He got quite angry ..... coz he knows he was a f***ing pillock over this. He claimed that the emotional inequity (from me ) balanced out the financial inequity (from him) . (The courts won't agree!) He then said that he got burgled and all of his expensive computer stuff was stolen (as this was AFTER he separated and he walked with more than his share of goods, I suspect that the courts won't care!) I left it by saying that he should search his conscience and ask if he would want to see his father treat his mother the same way as he treated me financially.

I was glad to hear him say that he should have listened to me more and taken my career seriously. He also admitted that it was wrong of him to try to push me into bodybuilding, and that he needs to compromise more in relationships. He also said he should have come to watch me play hockey and taken more interest in my hobbies. Like letting me play the piano. Unbelievable. This, of course, was followed by both of us saying that it was regrettable that these lessons were being learned the hard way. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

There was, of course, discussion on whether the marriage could have been saved. I always believed that it could have been saved. I now realise I was wrong. WS did not have sufficient strength to go through NC, withdrawal and recovery. The marriage couldn't be saved. He still has some confusion about what he wanted at the time and what he wants now.

Towards the end of the conversation, he asked me if we could be friends in the future. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> !!!!! We must have discussed this for about an hour!

I said that I wasn't sure why he wanted to be friends with me.
His reply was that we had so much in common - 5 years of being married.
I said we would be in for some misery if that was what we were going to base our future friendship on! I also reminded him that one of the reasons he cheated was because he had nothing in common with me!

He then brought up other shared experiences such as our travels overseas, the Army.
I said that we couldn't just spend all of our time talking about the past.
I said to him that people don't start friendships by asking another person to be friends - they do things together and both people get positive vibes out of these shared activities.... which builds up the friendship.

I told him that I would not be friends with him if he was still involved with the concubine.
I asked him what he thought we would do together - me, him and his concubine - sit about in the afternoons and reminisce about old times????
I also reminded him that since he was still involved with the concubine, that she would probably become insecure about him being involved with his ex-wife.
(Here's a thought, I could cause some havoc here, couldn't I?)

I then said that I could not be friends with someone who had treated me so badly, cheated on me, lied about me and not even thought to apologise.
He apologised at this point for putting me through such an amount of hurt.
I asked him why he needed me in his life now ... he has had over 12 months of no contact and managed perfectly well without me. He had no reply. other than telling me I was a "worthwhile person to know". (Of course, this set me thinking I am still a status symbol to him)
I then said I knew perfectly well I was a "worth while person to know", but asked if it was worth his while knowing me?
I also pointed out that he really didn't know me anymore, so how would he know if he wanted to be friends anyway?

In the end I said that I am learning to go with my gut feeling these days, and that my gut feeling was I didn't see a friendship working out between us.

It was the right time to make the step of contacting STBXH. It had to be done sooner or later and I have been feeling a sense of impending stress trying to figure out when and where to do it. Now was the right time.

It has cleared up many of the things that have been on my mind:
I have left the issue of filing the divorce with him, so I needn't worry about that now.
I know for sure that he has suffered too over the last year ... I was worried that he was getting away with it all scot free in his little fantasy land.
And he has finally apologised for all of the $h!t he put me through (although I did have to give a big hint)

One thing I am a bit p!$$ed about is the financial inequity issue. At least I have sown the seed of doubt. If I left off speaking to him and just filed for divorce, I know I would get no redress. I can't believe that he thinks all was fair and square financially!! He is still quite bitter about several things, and this is just his way of letting me know that.

Well, that is about it. Thank you for bearing with me on this, I know it's a really long post.


Enigma

<small>[ June 19, 2004, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: Enigma ]</small>

My WH asked me the same thing. He wanted to be friends. I told him I didn't think so. (I did not add, "Who wants a low down, lying, cheating, dishonorable, bottom dwelling friend?")

Oh enigma...i feel so sorry to hear your story.

WH sounds so much like mine and i am only in my fifth month of plan B.

Nevertheless i am sure you are feeling stronger and ready to move to the next step.

Do plan D if you have had enough.

Hugs to you.

Thanks Zizzy and Believer,

I had decided some time ago I had had enough and that divorce was my step. As some of you will know, I have been stuck in Divorce Pergatory (sp?) for at least 6 months now. In the country I am from our divorce laws only allow for "irreoncilable differences" which is proven by living apart for two years.

In a case like mine, it imposes what I see as an unnecessary period of uncertainty. Not being able to get a divorce for another year after I had made the decision to do so is frustrating. I have felt like I am caught in limbo; not in a marriage, but forced to remain married I don't want to be married to.

For quite some time now I have felt the need to close Plan B. Some people on this board have commented that since a divorce is not possible for me for another 6 months then I should remain in Plan B until then.

I see no point in remaining in Plan B and delaying an inevitable conversation with STBXH. Now was the right time for me to have that conversation, not in 6 months time when the marriage expires under our (blunt) laws.

I learned a lot about STBXH in that conversation. Although he has a lot of regrets, admits to being in a fog during the height of the affair, he actually hasn't changed as much as he thinks he has. Sure he has been through a lot, but he hasn't really changed.

Not being clear about whether he wants to be married after all this time, and then his request for friendship are both indicative of some degree of confusion.

I agree, enigma.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Although he has a lot of regrets, admits to being in a fog during the height of the affair, he actually hasn't changed as much as he thinks he has. Sure he has been through a lot, but he hasn't really changed.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It takes more than time to cross the distance between two points. It also takes something called motion.

Succinct as always, AM!

How are you doing?

double post

<small>[ June 19, 2004, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

Deep in Plan B. I'm trying to stay deep in Plan B even while the D is in process. I will not lift a finger to help this process, which I believe to be suicidal for him. I will quit the field with honor.

There is a growing realization among friends, family, and in community that something is deeply wrong with H. I will not participate in any palace intrigue. Much is at stake for him -- but he shows little chance of waking up to date. While this has its own anguish, I know that cutting the cord may be the best thing for me.

An act of God would be needed to reverse the flow. I'm pretty much okay with it all.

Thanks for asking.

Kick his [censored] and get moving woman!

If you feel plan D is your choice then i see no point going on with plan B...break it. But you said you do not want to be his friend anymore so there is no point talking to him right and that would led you back to plan B. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Maybe some men is really not worth waiting for. You can wait forever and they will still be undecided. i think my WH is the same.

Each day i doubt more and more that plan B is going to get him back. But plan B is making me stronger and more in control of my emotions.

You are still young...no kids...hell, if i was you...i will be out dating and moving on now!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

AM, I am pleased to hear that you are deeply entrenched in Plan B. You are right not to lift a finger to help him with the divorce. It's what he wants, right?

Until now I had thought that I would be the one doing the divorce paperwork. I don't feel it is my job, as I wasn't the one who decided that the marriage was finished. However, STBXH used to be so unreliable at getting tasks done that I would expect him to procrastinate over this too, forcing me to be the one to file. I really do think it is his duty to file.

But you said you do not want to be his friend anymore so there is no point talking to him right and that would led you back to plan B

Zizzy, I haven't talked to him in a year. I have no reason to talk to him in the future, with the exception of him telling me that the divorce has been filed. It is Plan B in the sense of a black out on communication, however, I don't consider myself in Plan B any longer. I think that Plan B is finished and over. Plan B has shown me what a weak person he really was. I found out a lot of other awful things about him much earlier on in Plan B.

You are right, some men aren't worth waiting for. I gave up on waiting for him some time ago, but our divorce laws do not permit people to be divorced as and when they decide the marriage is over.

I have been trying to put aside my legal marital status in my mind for some time now. STBXH has had little diffficulty doing this, so I am not sure what holds me back.

If anyone can suggest a way of moving past my (state-imposed) legal marital status into single dom, while not legally divorced, I would like to hear your suggestions. I sure as heck can't figure out how to be married, but act single ..... I guess if I could, then I would have been the WS.

Oh boy...i dont have a problem moving from BS to WS...

Every men is starting to look yummy. I am vunerable like hell now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I can actually understand why married men fall easily for OW. After reading and learning about affairs i am very confident if i apply what i have learned about needs i could actually bait a married man to fall for me.

Have to keep myself in check all the time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But i also understand what it is like being the OP and i dont want to fall to THAT level! Ugh!

In my case i am the one pushing for D...i told him to end it with OW or end it with me but like you i think mine will also procrastinate over it.

Last i spoke to WH, he agreed to D but told ME to do all the paper work and he need only to sign them!!! I kept telling WH that i wont do that and that WH must do the dirty work.

Now i wait and see... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Last i spoke to WH, he agreed to D but told ME to do all the paper work and he need only to sign them!!! I kept telling WH that i wont do that and that WH must do the dirty work.

Stay strong on that one.

I for one, will not be doing the dirty work. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

I will not be the one paying the fee either. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

WS ended the marriage relationship. WS must end the legal marriage relationship.

If I need to put pressure on him via his friends and relatives when the time comes, I will. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ June 20, 2004, 08:35 AM: Message edited by: Enigma ]</small>

Hi Enigma,

I don't think I have posted to you before but I just wanted to chime in and say I think you are doing the right thing.In my case,I am the one filing for a D because my WH is lazy and would not do a thing to start the proceedings even though he did agree one day that he did want a D.I don't think he truly does but he is so weak he is letting everyone else make decisions for him.I used to say to myself,let him do the dirty work but he would let this sordid scenario keep playing out eternally if I let it.I had to put a stop to the pain I was enduring still.

I figure,if he is willing to let me go through with this D and he continues to refuse to seek help,refuse to work on the marriage and continues to see the homewrecker(as opposed to your concubine!)then I don't need a selfish man like that in my life anymore.He is no longer the loving man that I married and he has the audacity too to believe that he can detroy my life and then keep me on the sidelines as a friend.I told him absolutley NOT.We will not be playing happy family and I never want to see him again.The homewrecker gets what she wanted,MY husband and he let her.She helped destroy our family and marriage as we knew it.Big losses on his part.But at least he is paying for everything and pay he will!

I do commend you on holding out in Plan B for a year.That was the right thing to do albeit a difficult thing I am sure.I didn't wait that long but I am at the end of my rope.I think we each have our limits but I did so much work on myself,read everything I could,posted here,did my Plans,sought counseling on my own,continued to take my AD's,talked with family about my options,etc,etc.I can no longer do this alone.

Anyway,hang in there.I do hope that your WH doesn't drag the D out.That can be hurtful too once you have reached a decision.You may find that you have to take the reins and steer your life in the way that YOU want it to go,not WH.

O

I don't think he will drag it out in order to be spiteful. If it is prolonged after we are eligible to file, it will only be due to his laziness and procrastination.

I had a bit of a tough time after making that call to WS/STBXH. I guess that is why I am posting here at MBers again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Due to the total blackout of my Plan B, we never did discuss divorce. The wish to divorce had been implied by his lack of effort to return, I guess, but until yesterday, we had not confirmed divorce as the next step.

I think I went through a little more grief after that conversation. The "loss" (of a selfish, cheating, porn addicted, controlling WS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> )is now confirmed, rather than merely anticipated

I steered the discussion in quite a detached manner, we were both clear that it was a final discussion. Although my mind was made up some time ago, I have lacked a sense of finality until this point.

That's what really has been bothering me - the lack of finality. Obviously, HE didn't need to hear me say that I wanted a divorce, however, it was something I needed to tell him. Marriage relationships do not have legal expiry dates, they end when we decide that the marriage is over.

Hi again,

I know it can be a rough turn of events,when the D word comes up.I struggle with it daily since I made the decision to file.Half of me feels like a failure and that I should wait longer but NO.I remember what WH is doing: Nothing.Nothing for us,our marriage or for our children.He IS doing everything for himself and the homewrecker.I have to remember that his ACTIONS are speaking to me loud and clear.

It hurts so very much to be letting go but I have to.What am I holding onto? Like you said about your WH,I have a porn lurker,selfish taker in my life who causes me pain everytime he comes home and DOES NOT understand WHY! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Your lack of finality is exactly what I am trying to execute.I can no longer let this man hurt me the way he does and I have to remind myself that what IS is different than what was or what could have been.REALITY is staring me in the face right now and it sux.It's a terrible dichotomy.Everything else about my life is good except that my WH is still in it.Last summer I would have fainted at the thought that I would be where I am now but yet,here I am.

Marriages do not have expiration dates that is true,but they do have limits on emotional and physical well being.Many of us here do not have that,you and I included.I am sorry that you are headed toward a D.It's not what any of us wants but it is,sometimes,what we need in order to live well again.

{{HUGS}}

O

Hello Octobergirl,

Divorce is not what I wanted when I was posting here last year. Divorce is what I want now, however, and I realise now how much I have had to go through to get to that point.

During the last few months, I have let that part of Plan B slip where one focusses on oneself. I have been focussing on uncertainty/ planning the best way to execute the divorce ...... in short, focussing on the failed marriage. My life should not be defined by a failed marriage!!

Over this weekend, now that the question of divorce is out in the open, answered and settled upon, I suddenly realised that I had been forgetting to look after myself properly in all of this. I feel refocussed now, and I also feel far less weighed down than I have over the last few weeks/months.

Once the decision has been made, there is no sense is trying to rehash the situation. Onward and upward.

You have been dark so long...did you feel anything when you spoke to WH? Do you feel numb towards WH?

When you saw him did you feel anything? Whenever i see WH my heart skips. I wonder if this is a sign that i am not emotionally ready for plan D.

Anger and hurt is whats driving me to plan D. I could not tolerate the stories of people seeing them together and it is leaking back to me. I feel humiliated when he is doing this without any regards to my feelings. I live in a small town and almost everyone knows us.

If WH lives somewhere else and doing it elsewhere then maybe i could go on longer in my plan B.

Zizzy,

I haven't laid eyes on XH now for 13 months.

I have been living in another country for the last six months.

When I spoke to him, I felt a bit nervous initially, but then I realised that he felt more ill at ease than I did, and after that I was really quite numb. I stayed like that for most of the conversation - detached and matter-of-fact. Because it really has become a matter of fact that we are divorcing. The only thing that really got me feeling something was when the stupid A$$ asked for my friendship. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Then I felt indignant and insulted. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

If WH lives somewhere else and doing it elsewhere then maybe i could go on longer in my plan B.

True. I was constantly anxious about how I would react if I ran into XH and OW. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I am amazed that I never did run into them, given that his house was next door to the gym I belonged to and less than 1km away from our house. (Maybe they were avoiding me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

I could not tolerate the stories of people seeing them together and it is leaking back to me.
Yes, it's horrible. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I feel humiliated when he is doing this without any regards to my feelings.
Because in their little alien world, WS and OW are the only people who matter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> It is simply too damn inconvenient for the WS to consider what your feelings might be. They are so devoid of compassion whilst in the affair, that some WS even take feel satisfaction in seeing the BS suffer .....

By being in Plan B and going very, very dark you don't allow the WS to see you suffer.

Anger and hurt is whats driving me to plan D.
Don't decide to divorce out of anger. I have regretted most decisions I have made in anger. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> If you are thinking you'll teach him a lesson by divorcing him, all you will learn is that you have played along with his (and OW's ) plans.

Believe me, I have thought a lot about divorce.

The move to divorce is a legal formality to be pursued when you decided that the MARRIAGE is OVER. That's right: the marriage ends first, and the divorce recognises that fact legally.

Take care

I feel as if a dark cloud has been lifted from my life after this weekend. I actually found myself singing along along to the radio this morning as I made my breakfast - something I haven't done for a while! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I have had a few more thoughts about whether to "remain friends" with XH. I actually don't want to be FRIENDS with XH, but I could certainly have some fun by staying in contact ...... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I will be totally honest here: the only motivation for me to do so would be to create problems between XH and OW. To try to mess XH about and create insecurity for OW. I know what XH is like - he has had plenty of "friendships" over the years with females, I know how far I could take it, without crossing any moral boundaries (except for deceiving him under the pretense of friendship). I also know what kinds of things would push OW's insecurity buttons.

This is obviously driven by bitterness: a selfish desire to cause some discomfort for both of them. I am surprised at myself. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Despite the nastiness of these thoughts, perhaps this scheming is a good sign as it indicates I am no longer consumed by thoughts of failure and uncertainty.

And to those of you who are despairing that Enigma's evil twin has taken over again, I can assure you I have no REAL intention of complicating my life by messing XH and OW about. They deserve each other!

Life's too short. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />