My wife has filed for a D. Mediation starts next month and I've been just quiet and supportive. Her OM thinks I'm manipulating her so she's distrustful.

Should I tell her, if she asks what my intentions are ? If yes, will the following letter help or hurt? Thanks all!

W:

By now you’re wondering why I’ve decided to stand for this marriage. You probably see this as my attempt to control you and keep you from your true happiness. I understand now that trying to explain anything to you in your current state is difficult at best . However since you asked, I’ll clarify my actions.

You are the most important person in my life. What you currently think is obsession is simply unshakable love. I made a commitment to you because I loved you and I chose to act in love to you because of that same commitment. My actions don’t depend on what you do or say. They don’t depend on other’s opinions. They are based on the deep, abiding knowledge that true love stays true. Can you honestly say that you’ve experienced commitment on that scale? If you were my girlfriend or lover and wanted me to release that role I would gladly do so. I, however, am your husband and the father of your sons. That is a sacred role not so easily discarded. I am going to stand firm despite your protestations and rejections. Why? Because I cannot respond to your hurt and distrustful self by abandoning you, the boys and my commitment. I cannot give in to your fatigue.

When a person is diagnosed with a life-threatening illness, they fight it. This situation is a threat to our family’s life. I will fight it W. I will fight it with all the love, patience and understanding I have. I will lean on God and I will seek the help I need.

I do this according to:

Faith: Because I know God will pull us through
Love: You’re the woman I chose to love. After all this time, the love has just strengthened and matured.
Commitment: My life-time commitment to love and support you was based on principle, not feelings.
I accept the good and bad, regardless of the temptation to run away with my fleeting feelings
Family: We are the center and leaders of a family. Our marriage is a blessing and gift to our children

The H you fell in love with has grown. The depressed man who disappointed you through neglect and apathy is dead. Before you is someone who would rather be your husband with all the burdens, problems, boredoms and challenges than be someone else’s another’s lover. That lover exists as well, though. He’s loving, funny charming, flirtatious considerate, strong, and sexy as hell. He listens deeply and speaks eloquently. He drinks in life and pours forth wisdom and wit. He is for better or worse, your husband.

I am patient and strong, W. I am loving and forgiving. I will grow while you explore. I’ll play no games, nor give no ultimatums. What I won’t do though, is actively participate in the destruction of this family. You can ask me to do anything but that.

Standing for the fam

<small>[ June 28, 2004, 03:12 PM: Message edited by: dleightonc ]</small>

I respect you and the time and thought you gave to that letter.

I am not as qualified as others on this site to give you a 'proper' reply, but as a FWW myself and on recovery in my mariage, it seems you are a lot like my own husband.

He too is standing by me. I have broken contact with OM (13 weeks ago now), and just wanted you to know that withdrawal from something you become addicted to is very hard.

I am ashamed to say that when I was addicted to OM the true reality of what I was doing was hidden in a cloud because I didn't want to see it.

I am sorry for the pain I caused my husband in what I did.

I am grateful he has chosen to stand by me.

I am trying my best to regain my relationship with God and be restored...

My thoughts are with you in your situation.

Kas

Hey>
Great letter. To stand for your marriage is the noblest thing a man can do. You are standing for what so many people won't anymore. It is a covenant you made to your wife and God in the presence of family and friends. A covenant is not to be broken so lightly based upon the whims and fantasy of an EA. You are the man!!!

Keep us posted > I admire you being a real man in a world of "Oprah-Winphreyized" men who aren't men at all.

out!

I admire your tenacity. My WH is in a fog and is not taking any move one way or the other.
But I realize that one day I might very well be in your position of being just a few weeks from mediation and divorce.

And I am solidly in the same belief that you are, standing for the marriage and not looking for an escape from the pain.

I have told my WH that any talk of divorce is his just looking for an easy way out. And that I choose to fight for the marriage. I choose the harder path.
He doesn't see that very well. He only sees as divorce as being very hard, he just doesn't see that working on the M will be harder. (but I know the rewards will be greater)
But I know he considered my thoughts on that.

Any attempt on his part to discuss settling something, I have rebuffed with, "I don't know why we are talking this way as we're not getting a divorce". I don't participate in his attempts to go the direction of a divorce. (so far he has mentioned it very little)

I don't know what is right or wrong, we all have to choose our own paths, but just wondering if you have participated in her attempts so far to discuss divorce and what will be divided?
In my mind, I can picture standing in front of the divorce judge and still proclaiming my desire to hold the marriage together.

Your letter expresses commitment very nicely when comparing it to a girlfriend or a lover.

Something else comes to mind, I'm not sure if it is right time or if you can even use this.

When our conversation has gone to my saying just leave the OW, he has responded with, "I don't understand" or "its not that easy".
And I generally respond, "I know that you have strong feelings for this person and I do know what I am asking. I know that leaving this person will be painful"
But I posed this question to him, "don't you think that the pain that you feel even thinking about leaving this OP is equal to the pain that I endure in attempting to get past the A and to save our M? Don't you think that if I am willing to take the pain to save our M, to forgive . . . don't you think that you could take the pain to leave the OP?

Of course, I didn't get much of a response . . . but I've no doubt he heard the words.

I believe letters to the WS helps. I believe it allows the BS to put words down that don't generally come so eloquently when attempting to talk with WS.
And more importantly they are words on record, that the WS can re-read the words over and over again (hopefully).

I couldn't tell you if your letter is good or not. But I would suggest that you make sure this letter is less of about you and more of what she may need to hear.
Read the letter to yourself and see if there is anything that might be a trigger for her.

I get the impression that you haven't told her much as you seemed to only want to give this letter IF she asks.
If you have held back your feelings, wouldn't that come across to her as you don't care?
Maybe your sharing your feelings is the very thing she is looking for. I don't know your story so these questions are rather out there. But just food for thought.

Although i am a BS but if i were you i wont send that letter. It sounds very possesive and controlling. I dont think W will like it and may even get more angry.

I doubt she sees the true intention in that letter except it being manipulative.

Nevertheless i could be wrong. At the end it is your opinion.

If i were you...dont say never but state a deadline. Tell her to give you a year of waiting in separation. Tell her after one year if she still insist on divorce then you can give it to her. This will give her some breathing space.

Then you do a plan B...write a plan B letter and give it to her.

Good luck <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I do not have a lot of experience in this area, as I am not married, but as a woman and mother, someone who had a dad who loved his family more than life...

I think that if she asks, or if you just feel the need to explain yourself, that yes you should give her that letter. It is a beautiful letter. It made me feel good just to read it.

You put no pressure on her, nor do you ask anything of her. You simply state your position, your feelings, and your intention.

Unfortunately in your wife's current state of mind, it might not have any immediate results. But I believe very strongly in "speaking your truth" which it seems you have done.

And as someone else said, letters are very good because they can be taken out and read when most needed.

I wish you well!

Weaver

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by zizzycool:
<strong> Although i am a BS but if i were you i wont send that letter. It sounds very possesive and controlling. I dont think W will like it and may even get more angry.

I doubt she sees the true intention in that letter except it being manipulative.

Nevertheless i could be wrong. At the end it is your opinion.

If i were you...dont say never but state a deadline. Tell her to give you a year of waiting in separation. Tell her after one year if she still insist on divorce then you can give it to her. This will give her some breathing space.

Then you do a plan B...write a plan B letter and give it to her.

Good luck <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As an accused controlling person, I fail to see how this letter is controlling.

In no place in the letter does he say what she should do. I do read a lot about what he thinks, feels and will do and will not do. To me, that is more of setting boundaries, not trying to control her behavior.

One of my pet peeves is for people to cry "control, he's trying to control me" Control is an illusion. If you feel controlled, it's because you allow yourself to be controlled. No person can control another, unless the controlled person allows themselves to be controlled.

A person setting a boundary for what they personally will or will not do, establishing what they believe in, or simply stating an opinion or preference is not an act of control.


I don't see where he is saying anything along the lines of "W, you should do ...." So I fail to see how he is attempting to control his wife.

Tony
Pleading innocent of the charge of being a controlling person.

Nobody else?

I think the letter simply explain your love and commitment to her. She choses to accept or reject your love. However, she may be feeling very guilty now. Your letter may reinforce her guilt. So she may have mixed feelings about the letter.
I am so sorry you are in this predictament. I know you are hurting really bad.

Java asked what in this letter could be seen as controlling. Remember that this is hypothetically being read by a WS. I don't know that all of it is controlling but there are a lot of love busters in it (from a WS perspective). Please note that I think it's a beautiful letter, but WS have their own view of the world - especially of their BS.

You probably see this as my attempt to control you and keep you from your true happiness.
I wouldn't tell her what she thinks or feels.

I understand now that trying to explain anything to you in your current state is difficult at best.
Disrespectful Judgment regarding her ability to understand you.

What you currently think is obsession is simply unshakable love.
Controlling. What you think is irrelevant. My opinion is what's right.

My actions don’t depend on what you do or say. They don’t depend on other’s opinions.
Independent Behavior. I don't care what you want. I don't care what anyone says, I'm doing this.

Can you honestly say that you’ve experienced commitment on that scale?
Disrespectful Judgement.

If you were my girlfriend or lover and wanted me to release that role I would gladly do so. I, however, am your husband and the father of your sons.
Control alert! I could let you go, and under other circumstances I would, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO. neener neener.

I am going to stand firm despite your protestations and rejections.
Independent behavior.

The part about how you've grown and what you have to offer will come across as boastful or manipulative.


Again, I think it's a beautiful letter. I don't think she's in a frame of mind to hear it properly, however.

I think this letter will piss her off, not because it is controlling but because it points out things that she isn't proud of. He tells her what he would like and what he is willing to do to get it.

He isn't rolling over and making himself a better man (making her choice harder).

send her two copies. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

God bless

Doug

dleightonc,

I am accused of being a control freak, and I plead guilty. However, I think the idea that somebody like me is horrible and selfish is pure horse$**t, particularly given that I acknowledge my flaw. My current situation is a power struggle, and maybe yours is too. I have not been generous in sharing power in my marriage, and my WW took revenge by taking all my power away. It took this for me to realize it.

I think the letter is good. It touches on many things that you have every right to express to your W. I don't know if she would see it that way. It shows off your integrity and contrasts it with your wife's lack thereof.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you honestly say that you’ve experienced commitment on that scale?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She might think she has now, with OM.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I cannot give in to your fatigue.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Fair enough. But she can. Has. And she likely knows it. This may just remind her that she's too tired of giving and not receiving (a common WW complaint).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I accept the good and bad, regardless of the temptation to run away with my fleeting feelings.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">implied: UNLIKE YOU!

I don't mean to suggest this is a bad letter and that you shouldn't give it to her. The clock is ticking, you are desperate to demonstrate your growth, and there is no reason not to try.

GC

Hello all! Thanks so much for your input!! I spoke with Steve Harley this morning (the best investment you can make to save your maariage)and he said I should give the letter ASAP so as not to seem smug/manipulative by giving it to her after I stonewall the mediation next month. It will establish and explain both my current behavior and give her the taste of much needed reality. As long as my behavior remains loving and consistant, the letter will merely be a demonstraion of commitment. (She'll still be upset upon recieving it)

Also, per some of your suggestions, I toned down a lot of the judgemtal sounding statements without losing the spirit of firmness I need to project. Hard balance. You ladies have been most helpful in gauging my W reaction. Dead-on. I wish I'd found this place 8 months ago.

God Bless

Well I've tried to pull the LB's out and this is what I got. Hope it comes across firm but not controlling, loving but not weak:

Dearest W:

You may be wondering what to expect from me as we enter this transition in our lives. I’m writing you this letter, then, with the deepest respect for your feelings. I pray that you read this with an open heart.

I recognize you want to have more joy in your life and relationships. Indeed, you deserve what you want. You’re worthy of a relationship where you receive lots of affection, attention and intimacy. You should feel the love you receive and be happy return it. Your passions should be filled with and by the person with whom you’re paired. He should be the main person with whom you want to share your dreams, feelings and experiences. You’re worthy, too of the freedom to pursue your desires. In short, you want and deserve to live a romantic, authentic life.

It’s a sad fact you've been unhappy with this marriage for a long time. My negative, oppressive behavior has contributed to your unhappiness and the emotional gulf between us. For that I’m truly sorry. I acknowledge and apologize for my part in the failure of our marriage. However, I have learned from my mistakes and am taking steps to ensure that they’ll not be repeated. People can change if they're willing to look in the mirror and hold themselves accountable. I did that and I'm proud of the person I'm becoming. By working on Self, I am releasing anger, neediness, manipulation, judgment and guilt from my life. I’ve accepted the loving, charming, funny, sexy, smart, strong man I really am. .

So what am I saying here? I ask that you take one last opportunity to remake our marriage. “What??” “Why? “I’ve made up my mind!” I’m not happy married to you.” I’m not happy being married” “I’m in love with someone else” "I don’t like who I am when I’m with you” "I want to be my true self” I hear you and understand. You have every right to feel this way, so what else is there to consider?

There are alternatives, W, and as long as they go unexplored I cannot, in good conscience, pursue the current course of action. I won’t fight over the value of our lives together. I’ll not demonize you, play games, or give ultimatums. Neither, however, will I actively participate in the destruction of our family. The emotional, physical, and financial cost to us both (and the boys) is too high. This journey toward divorce started while I was broken, you were longing, and we both wanted to end our pain. Along the way we wrongly addressed our needs and issues with incompetent or biased people. This guaranteed our failure. Anger, Emptiness, Neediness, and Fear are not places from which to build a future.

As much as I want to heal and continue our marriage relationship, you have made it clear that you don't. You must think I’m crazy (or maybe, weak or God forbid, stupid), then. Maybe I was, but I’m clear now. I’m not naive; there’s been a lot of damage done. We need help to guide us in learning better ways to meet each other's needs and begin to rekindle the spark of emotional intimacy between us. Recently, I sought the support and expertise of those who have built great relationships from crap marriages. They have conquered betrayals, withdrawals, unrealistic expectations, toxic friends, and parental legacies. I’ve seen passion rekindled and love reborn. They have taught me that the love, peace and happiness on the other side of crisis is possible and better than we could imagine.

“Why bother with you when I have what I want with OM?” you ask. Although you have said that it’s not about him--it’s about the life you wish to lead-- you do get much of what you want in a relationship from him, for now. Your heart is aflame for sure. You feel an inexplicable chemistry, an intimacy, an emotional closeness that you’ve never felt before. You’re in love and finally, at peace. How dare I, then, expect that you’d give that up? I’m not expecting anything right except that you be open to all the possibilities for happiness. The paths that you choose are always your own.

While watching those “Dr. Phil, Relationship Rescue” shows with you, I thought, “We haven’t sunk to their depths”, but I also realized that we haven’t gone to those lengths either. If those funky couples can find happiness with each other, we sure can! Dr. Phil’s take on calling it quits:

“You shouldn't get a divorce, he says, until you have turned over every stone and investigated every avenue of rehabilitation possible. That means everything from reading books or going to a marriage counselor, to speaking to a clergy member and spending time focusing on you and your role in what's going on.” "You know you're ready for a divorce when you can walk out the door with no anger, frustration or hurt. Otherwise, you've got unfinished business,” "Unless and until you look each other in the eye feeling peace, no hatred or resentment, you're not ready to get a divorce."
I’ve embraced this excellent advice. I’m empowered and encouraged, then, to stand for our family and work toward our mutual happiness. Principle, faith and example guide this decision. My actions, then, don’t depend on current feelings or appearances. They don’t depend on other’s opinions or flights of fancy. Understand though, I’m not compelled to compromise my life just to be with you or because “I’d die without you”. That’d be obsession. I prefer to work on this marriage because the greatest good for our family is here. I do I love you and the boys and want the best for us all. That best is a family where the parents are happy and in love with each other. I want to honor the blessings God gave me in this life. W, The love and even the passion, will come. You only need to choose this path with me.

I care enough about us to risk my future to pursue the ideal for our family. Do you have enough regard for us to allow that chance? If so, we will get with folks who can really help us find our way. No judging and living in the past. No “H cries & W goes unheard” sessions. Further, I will do my part--100%-- without reservation. I will take responsibility for my actions and will stop any relationship, behavior, or attitude that detracts from our healing. What’s in it for you? A passionate, prosperous life where you’re free to be, where your children see the fruits of love and forgiveness, and you’re cherished and accepted for who you really are. An authentic life, indeed (laundry and dishes thrown in, just to keep it real <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ).

I have faith in God. I believe in Love. I believe people can change. I believe in us. I still, W believe in you. Please know that I still see you as a wonderful woman who deserves a world and life of joy. Stand with me W. Really, what do you have to lose?

(True) Love, (Lasting) Peace, and (All the) Happiness (You Can Stand)

H

dleightonc,

You seem to be in a power struggle with your wife.

If this impression is correct, then your tendency in this newer version to put words in her mouth or tell her what she thinks, then respond to her imagined response, is not a good idea. As you write this letter, you converse with a puppet version of your wife. And I suspect your wife might really really really hate being a puppet.

I say edit it again.

GC

graycloud:

My wife has said everyone of those things. I wanted to convey that I have indeed heard her. You are right about the power struggle. I'll find a way to make this message less provoking.

<small>[ June 23, 2004, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: dleightonc ]</small>

Don’ try to “educate” her (the Dr. Phil stuff).
Don’t tell her how she feels or thinks or put words in her mouth.


Delete all the following and it looks pretty good.

I pray that you read this with an open heart.

In short, you want

It’s a sad fact you've been unhappy with this marriage for a long time.

I ask that you take one last opportunity to remake our marriage. “What??” “Why? “I’ve made up my mind!” I’m not happy married to you.” I’m not happy being married” “I’m in love with someone else” "I don’t like who I am when I’m with you” "I want to be my true self” I hear you and understand.

You must think I’m crazy (or maybe, weak or God forbid, stupid), then.

“Why bother with you when I have what I want with OM?” you ask. Although you have said that it’s not about him--it’s about the life you wish to lead-- you do get much of what you want in a relationship from him, for now. Your heart is aflame for sure. You feel an inexplicable chemistry, an intimacy, an emotional closeness that you’ve never felt before. You’re in love and finally, at peace. How dare I, then, expect that you’d give that up?

“You shouldn't get a divorce, he says, until you have turned over every stone and investigated every avenue of rehabilitation possible. That means everything from reading books or going to a marriage counselor, to speaking to a clergy member and spending time focusing on you and your role in what's going on.” "You know you're ready for a divorce when you can walk out the door with no anger, frustration or hurt. Otherwise, you've got unfinished business,” "Unless and until you look each other in the eye feeling peace, no hatred or resentment, you're not ready to get a divorce."

Do you have enough regard for us to allow that chance?
No judging and living in the past. No “H cries & W goes unheard” sessions

Dleigh

I'm sorry, I don't like the second letter very much. I'm not a WW so I could be off base.

I find it rambling and kind of wimpish. I think you should take the DJ's out of your first letter that I think Turtlehead highlighted, and maybe add some stuff about why you love your wife so, why you will miss her so much...personal things about her that turn you on, that set her apart from all other women. What ever keeps you attracted to her.

You see?

I'm sorry if we are confusing the heck out of you.

Weaver

I agree with weaver. The first letter, though not perfect, touched on some very nice things.

A little rambling discussion: one of the concepts that appears quite a bit in the various divorce-prevention-for-BSes literature is the idea that you cannot tell the WS how you've changed; they won't believe it. They think you're the same old person, just in crisis mode and on your best behavior. You can only show them how you've changed, and they must become convinced over time and become attracted to the person you have become. I think this is probably true, and I suggest you accept that this is the way it is, whether you like it or not. You are giving your W a little bit of the hard sell, I think. I understand why; there isn't much time. But she ain't shopping right now. I'm in the very same situation, man.

GC

I spoke to my counselor. I think I'll give her this letter 2 weeks before mediation. He says her response is less important than the fact that my intentions get out. That way, there is no doubt as to why I'll be behaving in such a "resistant" manner.