As I see it one of the biggest problems you are going to have if your wife decides to stay with you is that no-contact with the OM will be impossible if he wants a role in raising his child.

This is an awful mess. You are only 29. Think hard about how much you are willing to endure if the OM is constantly in her life and yours because of the child.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JustinExplorer:
<strong> As I see it one of the biggest problems you are going to have if your wife decides to stay with you is that no-contact with the OM will be impossible if he wants a role in raising his child.

This is an awful mess. You are only 29. Think hard about how much you are willing to endure if the OM is constantly in her life and yours because of the child. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, you're right. It is a possibility. I don't think he will go for that though. He'd basically have to sue us for the right to pay child support. Depending on the judge, if we ask to deny that, I have read of many judges doing just that. I'd also make it clear to him that I would be handling all child transactions at a neutral site. He would have no access to W.
And if that wouldn't be enough to deter him, I'd also make it clear that if he wants to be in the child's life, that the child would be taught exactly the type of person that OM is. I think facing this, anyone would just disappear. Which I would expect him to do. He's a coward. Just knowing he'd have to face me all the time, he'd turn tail and run.

<small>[ June 23, 2004, 12:27 AM: Message edited by: TTSi ]</small>

Well, I'm still here. Been cleaning up the apartment and its been taking longer than i thought. Last I updated, W wanted a day to think about what she wanted to do. So since I was still here I gave her that. She called me Wednesday morning and said she was coming with me and asked if we could leave on Friday. I agreed as I still had more stuff to do here cleaning than I thought. So no problem.

Today, Thursday she once again starts to waffle.
Doesn't know what to do. Is worried about what OM will do. I guess she's afraid he'll kill himself or something. Doesn't know how to just leave. She had been crying all day she said. I talked to her and re-assured her that everything would be ok. But she doesn't know. I told her that things had changed within me and that I felt like I deserved a chance. She agreed and said that I did deserve a chance. She just doesn't know how to tell OM. I don't know what else to do. I'm done here and leaving tomorrow.
I am in such pain right now I can't see straight. But I know I am doing this to myself and really only have myself to blame. W said she wanted to call me this evening, so we'll see how that goes.

TTSi,

Please do yourself the favor of detaching from your wife's wildly-fluctuating emotions and behaviors. As an addict, you need to treat her with compassion but not fall into the trap of feeling that YOU are responsible for her actions. If you're not on antidepressants, it might be a good time to visit your doctor and be evaluated.

As far as your plan, I would suggest that you move and let your wife know that if she wants to rejoin you, she just needs to end the affair and commit to no further contact---and that you'll be happy to work on the marriage together with her. And then I'd minimize any further contact. She hasn't hit bottom yet, and I believe that she will need to before she can commit to making a decision that will be "reasonably stable". With you gone, this will facilitate her hitting bottom---she'll have plenty of time to contemplate her situation.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by K:
<strong> TTSi,

Please do yourself the favor of detaching from your wife's wildly-fluctuating emotions and behaviors. As an addict, you need to treat her with compassion but not fall into the trap of feeling that YOU are responsible for her actions. If you're not on antidepressants, it might be a good time to visit your doctor and be evaluated.

As far as your plan, I would suggest that you move and let your wife know that if she wants to rejoin you, she just needs to end the affair and commit to no further contact---and that you'll be happy to work on the marriage together with her. And then I'd minimize any further contact. She hasn't hit bottom yet, and I believe that she will need to before she can commit to making a decision that will be "reasonably stable". With you gone, this will facilitate her hitting bottom---she'll have plenty of time to contemplate her situation. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are definitely a wise man. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Many have told me once I move, that she'll be chasing after me even more than now. Everything is in God's hands now. I am weary of the fight and am allowing Him to continue.

Well, to update I am here in TX.
W called me a few times during my trip but I
didn't have much cell coverage while driving, and when I did it was usually late at nite so I
didn't return her phone calls. I did send her a short email letting her know I got here safe. But I really do not know how to handle the situation from here. I mean, I knew what kind of things to do while I was in the same city, but from here, how should I handle things? I guess a lot of that will depend on what she does. I guess I'm hoping that she will miss me more while I am this far away.

TTSi,

Well, normally this would be plan B time, and you would do nothing until she came back ready to work on the marriage. Plan B can temporarily throw the two lovers together---and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It puts more pressure and real life into their fantasy, and the affair can often crumble in that situation. Your wife is an addict and she will behave like an addict until she realizes the damage that it's causing her. Once that happens, she'll probably reevaluate her relationship with you---and this is the time that reconciliation (and the hard work for recovery) can begin.

Until then, I'd leave it up to her to establish contact. If you're continuing in this long-distance Plan A, then respond to her without lovebusting. If you're ready to move to a formal Plan B, then you should write the Plan B letter and deliver it to her (after posting it here for feedback). And then wait for the affair to end.

Thank you for your advice K, I really do appreciate you and all the others taking time out to help. I hope someday I'll be wise enough to help others as well.
It's amazing what being close with your family can do during these does.
I've only been here a couple of days and I already feel and have a sense of calmness that I didn't have previously. Im glad so many people told me to go home to the people who love me.
W has already emailed me telling me that she misses me like crazy wants me to call her and that she made a mistake.
I replied that I missed her as well and asked what mistake she made... (Obviously I know, but I'd like her to be clear on it. Then we'll see what she says.)
Since my movers screwed up, all my stuff is in storage back where I came from. It will probably be there for a couple of weeks. If W comes to her senses quickly, I have FIL as a person who can get access to the storage, and he would help W put all her stuff in there for the movers to take also. I think that will be my goal as to when I can expect W to be serious about coming home. I'm still thinking of the plan B letter, which I have already written. (Basically I'm horrible at written words, so I've stolen a lot from other plan B letters that are on the boards.)
I don't know when the time will come to go to that. I think I'll know pretty soon though.

Thought I'd update. Not a whole lot new here.
W called my cell yesterday and left a message. Telling me she loved me and missed me.
I also got a few emails from her containing
words like,

"This 4th is going to be hard on me, I hope it isn't hard on you. Love you baby."

"God I wish I was there, Write or call soon please, I miss you."

" miss and love you very much. I hope you will find it in your heart to forgive me and I hope I will be allowed back into your heart and your life. I am glad you are safe. I am sorry for hurting you so bad. I hope someday I can help heal the damage I caused."

"I miss you!!!!!!! I love you very much, do you know that?"

What am I supposed to think or do with this? Except for telling her I loved and missed her too, the ony other thing I have written in my replies has basically been, "If you miss me so much, why are we not together?"

I just don't know what to feel or do. I don't know if she's playing a game or what.

TTSi,

Your wife isn't being intentionally deceptive. She's an addict, and she's behaving just like one. She will act great one minute, but as soon as she needs her fix, you won't recognize her. If you try to make sense of it from the perspective that she's normal and acting "normally"---it'll drive you insane. She will be wildly inconsistant and erratic while in the affair. It's part of the addiction. It's very similar to someone who has a chemical addiction.

At some point here, you need to be very clear to her about what she needs to do to "come back". I'd suggest that you let her know that there must be an end to the affair, and a willingness on her part to relocate far from the OM. You also need "details" like writing a no contact letter (especially difficult given the issue of the pregnancy), getting into counseling, how to handle the pregnancy and the issues surrounding that---but all those details can wait UNTIL she's ended the affair and is ready to really work on the marriage.

If you're in Plan A, then you should continue the pleasant contact with her. But I think it's very close to the time where you send her a plan B letter outlining exactly what needs to be done. There's a very good example of a Plan B letter over on Emotional Needs by FaithHopeLove. Check that out.

Thanks for the post. That's kinda what I was thinking, but as you probably know, when you're
deep in the situation, sometimes the most obvious things are not clear.
I have already written a plan B letter. It's a bit generic, but it does get the point across well. I guess I'm just scared of using it. I guess I'm not the only one like that here though.
I've read the same thing from so many others who post.

Not much to update. Last contact with W was on Saturday. She called and we talked a bit. She says she wants to come here and be with me, but no action thus far.
I expected her to email me today from work, as she always does that, but I did not get anything.
I wonder if it's smarter to wait and let her get a hold of me, or if I should also make an attempt to contact her. (Write her an email, call her at work.) She did ask me to call. as "She wants to hear from me, she needs to hear from me" as she put it. I don't know if I should just step back and make her worry for a change what I'm thinking or if I'm still wanting her.

And now today, typical for my situation, I get one email from her saying "How are things going, I miss you."
and one of those e-cards saying
"I miss you and love you lots, hope your day went well"
In a normal situation, it's easy to respond back in kind, but here she is, saying this stuff to me all the while living with another guy and pregnant.
I really don't want to say anything except,
"then get home"

Thought I'd post the Plan B letter that I put together and get some feedback is possible...

Dear W,
I apologize to you for my part in creating the environment that helped make your affair with XXXX possible. Although I've ALWAYS loved you with my heart and soul, I made you feel that EVERYTHING was more important to me than you. It never was the case, but that is how I made you feel and for that W I am sorry. I have made many mistakes in the past and cannot change those. What I have been able to do is recognize those errors in judgment and I have learned from them so that I can take steps to ensure that they will not occur again. I did not realize how much
it meant to you for me to be there for you. The hand holding, the hugs, the passion, and the snuggling in the mornings to name a few. I now see the things that I was lacking in. I just didn't understand how important that was to us. I could not see through my own confusion on why I was so angry. I now clearly see many of those things I was lacking in. I just didn't understand how important it was.
I said and did many things in anger that I never meant. I know I hurt you. But believe me, whenever you hurt so do I. I wish I never did them. If I had known what I know now, it never would have happened. I would hurt back when
I was hurt. I have learned this is wrong and through the counseling I am getting, have learned to stop it. I have also learned not to internalize things so much. This is still hard for me but I am trying. I foolishly ignored you far too many times, and did not understand my
responsibility to meet your most important emotional needs. I was not there for you when you needed me the most and we are now both suffering for my mistake. I am willing to avoid the mistakes I have made in the past and create a NEW life for us that will meet your needs. I truly believe that it is possible with what I have learned. But I cannot do that until you end
your relationship with XXXXX once and for all. Until then, I will avoid seeing you or talking to you. If you need to contact me for an emergency, please have XXXXXX or another trusted friend get a hold of me.

I ask you to respect my decision to separate from you in this way. You must know about the suffering I have endured because of your relationship with XXXXX I simply cannot be with you any longer, knowing you with are living
with him. As I have told you before, I can't fight for our marriage alone anymore. I am weary. I still love you, and I will still pray for you, but I cannot see you under these conditions any longer.

As soon as you are willing to permanently separate from XXXXX, I will be willing to talk about our future, and the future of our family.
I want to be able to rebuild our Marriage someday. I want us to be able to meet each other's emotional needs and to avoid doing anything to hurt each other. We need to build a new lifestyle in which everything we do makes us
both happy. Then, there will never be a need for us to separate or to have other people there to meet our needs. I want to be your best friend again. Someone who is always there for you when you need me. And I want you as my best friend.
I have spent my whole life loving you W. The first 19 years I spent looking for you and the last 10 + as your Husband. I loved you when God
first brought us together as I love you right up to this day. I just cannot be with you or help you anymore as long as you are seeing XXXXX. W, I
do not know what the future holds for us, That is in Gods hands. I know that I want to grow old with you. When I said "I DO," I made a promise in front of God, you, our family and friends for life. Through better or worse. I want to be your husband, your friend, and your lover. I loved you more that life itself while we were together and I continue to do so as I write this. I want us to be a team, and restore our marriage together. I want you to know that no matter how bad the past was, no matter how ugly, we can get
past it. With God's help, our true healing can begin. Look inside yourself and find the strength we will need to do this. I look back through our life and I choose now to only remember the good times and learn from the bad. I
forgive whatever pain you have caused me and hope that in time you will forgive me too. I hope that we can work it out and be the best of friends. I hope with all of my heart that we can both put aside our harsh feelings and frustrations and see the good, and see the hope.
Love,
H

I ended up responding to her most recent emails in kind. I also added that "It's time to come home."
We'll see what she says. We'll see what she does.
Does anyone have any feedback on my Plan B letter above? I'm starting to feel like it's time to do it. I can't keep up with this. It's tearing me apart. Heck, even the AD I've been taking (a strong dose as well) has not been helping me, and I'm starting to have some mild panic attacks, like I used to have before starting the AD.
I wonder if moving was such a good idea. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I feel your pain and hope you get what you want.

<small>[ July 09, 2004, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: robby13 ]</small>

Bump <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

TTS,
I just read this thread. I, too, am a BH. Unfortunately, I'm no expert on Plan B bc my W ended her A almost immediately. Probably bc OM had children and wasn't willing to end his marriage. That's a whole other story.

From what I have read here about Plan B letters, yours seems good. The basics are that you want to tell her that bc of the hurt she has caused you need to temporarily end contact. When she is willing to end contact with OM then you are ready to be with her and work on the marriage.

I think your letter says that but review it again. The last thought you want to leave is that you love her very much and that you'll be there when she's ready to give up OM and "put your feelings above his." In reality (don't tell her this but if she doesn't come back in a reasonable amount of time you may need to move on. That time frame is of course up to you.

My first paragraph reminded me of something. Have you spoken to OM's W? Are you absolutely sure that they are in the process of divorcing. Even if they are does she know about the infidelity? If not please call her and tell her.

The reason I ask this is that experts believe that men and women have differing reasons for affairs and react differently. Probably bc we think so differently.

Most women have affairs as replacements (that's not to say that this is always the end result) while men have affairs as additions to the marriage.

Most men that have affairs (like women) have self esteem issues. They either don't have any and need the extra relationship to bolster the ego or they have way too much and pompously believe that they have a right (as God's gift to womenkind) to have an affair. Narcisstic type behavior if you follow me.

So are you absolutely sure that this guy really intends to leave his wife and kids? He may be lying to your W so go directly to the source his wife.

Hope this has helped some.

cwmac

Not much new going on here...
Got another email from her saying how much she misses me and loves me. Asked what I wanted for my birthday, which is Saturday.. (I'll be 30 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )
So now we're going to miss two big events in our lives, first our 10th wedding anniversary which was in December, and my 30th birthday.
I'm tired of this. I'm tired of waking up every morning upset that I didn't just pass away in my sleep. Everyone tells me how strong I am and all that, but I don't think so.

TTSI,

I think you should send the plan B letter. She is just stringing you along as you clearly have NOT seen any evidence that she is really thinking about you.

Oh! she will send emails and tell you that she loves you, but that is exactly what she was and is doing with OM, the father of her child.

Son, you are just turning 30, it is time you realized you cannot save her, she is not drowning and she is NOT calling for help. She has OM and he is what she wants. She wanted his child and she is having it.

Give her the plan B letter it will help you more than you realize. Right now every email just rips the scab off of your deep wounds. You need to heal and you need to do it for yourself, because you cannot help her if EVER she decides she wants you help if you are deeply wounded.

I would also seek a lawyer and make sure you are protecting yourself with regard to paternity. You are robbing your future for OM's child and she wants to be with him. If you do deny paternity or even divorce you can get back with her IF she ever decides to try.

I know what I am saying seems harsh but trust me on this, you need to move on. It may spur her to change her mind and join you, but I doubt it. You will never find out if you don't go to plan B. It is time. If you wait much longer you will in fact lose the ability to rebuild your marriage if such an opportunity should present itself.

I know my advice seems to be saying end the marriage and leave her, but actually it is giving you the best chance of ever having a good and happy marriage with her. It is part of what makes handling an infidelity so complicated, it is anti-intuitive.

I must go, but STTi send the plan b letter and let this thing get rolling. Right now it is just sitting in status quo.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL