GC - I may be too late to chime in - you may be talking to her right now, but I am not sure that it would be such a good idea to bring up anything that you heard "OM said to his wifes friend". That sort of thing usually backfires. The day will come - for sure - when you will be able to say this to her. But during the fog she will likely defend anything he says - like "he just said that because he knew that wifes friend would turn around and repeat it to her". She could also accuse you of trying to attack her.
Last week my WH (now EX) confessed that he now realizes the OW was not everything she portrayed herself to be. It was the perfect opening for me. I said "EX, so many people tried to tell you that she was not everything you thought she was, but you would not listen"
and he agreed - said that many people tried to talk to him but he would not listen. he felt that people "did not truly understand him - or her" that they were two misunderstood, tortured souls who were meant to be together. He said that each person who tried to talk to him, just pushed him closer to her.
Just an observation.
I would try to listen to her talk. Let her ramble on, soak it all in so we can all help you analyze it to death later! But I would be careful thinking that you could tell her a few things she doesn't know about this guy, in the hopes that she will turn away from him. While the fog is in, she will only make more excuses for him. And you will end up hurting.
Will definately pray for you tonight. My gut tells me that she will eventually have to come out of the fog and wonder what kind of man has an affair, and leaves a wife who is pregnant and has a 2 year old child? The man is scum. Hope the sparrow finds that out soon.

Eeek. Can you be artistic and romantic?

I definitely won't give a third-hand description of OM's conversation with his wife's friend. What I quoted was his W's interpretation, and she is madder than hell right now. Besides, I'm not trying to convince the sparrow of anything tonight. I just want to tell her the things I know about that she's done that have hurt me. I'm not going to point out that OM is scum and a wimp and a tool. Right now she thinks he's just fantastic. I don't spend too much time wondering why.

She has been by the house today and is probably at yoga. She may come back here. I hope she doesn't argue with me about whether or not she'll be staying here. Ultimately I can't stop her from staying - it's her house too. I can just ask nicely.

I am artistic. I'm a musician. I write songs. I play guitar and sing in a band.

I'm not good at being romantic. I have dropped that ball many times. I've never written a song for my wife. I don't know why; it's weird. I would certainly change that if she returned to me. She needs this in her life, and I did not give it to her.

GC

That's it! Write her a song, record her a song.

Your plan A'ing right. This is what you didn't do before. The right moment to give it to her will arise.

Your a guy, your back on your feet now after the initial shock. Your up for a little competion, aren't you? Two can play at OM's game, no?

I can't fix my own yucky relationship, but by golly I'm going to help you fix yours. Darn it any! LOL

Weav

Weav, take me under that wing you've woven.

The sparrow just called, finally. She may have tried the house earlier; I went out for a bite. We're not meeting until tomorrow now, dang it. And here I am with my head straightened out and everything. By 6 PM tomorrow I could be a mental patient.

Actually, I've written a couple tunes during this ordeal but they aren't all that nice and are more frustration-venting sorta stuff. I've written one good quiet song, but it's imagining her all alone in her new place moving on and leaving me behind. It's wicked sad.

Of course, she has no intention of being all alone. But I'll get right on that mission. It's a good idea.

GC

I was going to ask you what you did when you were first courting her, that attracted her to you,

then I started thinking about what attracted my husband and I to each other...and I don't know.

He was there, I was there, I was going somewhere and he decided to come.

Nevermind.

I'm with Weaver. We will be your cheering section.

From now on you are a Man with a Plan. Got that?Go get her! Win her back.

Shul,

I laughed out loud when I read your post.

Come on you can remember better than that what attracted him to you. It was only 1800 years I mean 18 years ago for heavens sake.

Thats right Gray, we are going to help you get her back.

Your wife doesn't stand a chance!

again, not to be the sour note here but still don't expect her to stick to the things she says. so again, don't expect her to show up tonight. you can plan for it but don't get your hopes up.

in case you didn't get a chance to read my entire session w/SH thread i'm going to relay something he said to me that i think applies to particularly your situation. SH said to treat any talk or discussion on the M or R as a war zone and that you (the BS) cannot over extend your stay there because you will be making yourself vulnerable. you can't stop your W from saying whatever she wants to say about M, R, D, etc. but you can redirect, be matter-of-fact but yet pleasant, and continue to plan A. when any discussion occurs regarding the M, R, A, OM, etc. then you are potentially giving amunition to the adulterers to use against you and possibly saying something you'll regret.

SH also told me not to act like everything is just hunky dory. that if my H asked how i was doing or how work was then just to say "things aren't going well but tomorrow is another day." if the WS asks why or what you mean by that then you can say "because i'm not w/my H or W but tomorrow is another day." by saying this or treating the situation like this you are not allowing them to get off the hook that you are okay w/out them and this is the the way you want things to be. you have to almost be stragetic in everything you do and a lot of times you will have to be the one to fall on the sword.

if it ever comes out w/stuff like, i gave you opportunities to change or if things had been different, then you apologize for that but state that person or belief system doesn't exist anymore. then you just continue to follow your words w/actions. make sense? i'm plan A'ing long distance so i can really only speak to your situation to a certain degree but the fact that we've been M for about the same amount of time, that we don't have kids, and your W seems hell bent on her new path, makes me compare our situations a lot.

continued strength and remember that you really do have the upperhand because of what you have learned here and you know the statistics and stories of people in A's. prayers to you, RR

RR, thanks for that. I did read your SH thread, and the things you pointed out have been on my mind. I do hope to inform her about what I know, but I won't bring it up unless there's an opening. I will be cheerful, upbeat, positive, and open, but if she asks how I'm doing I'll be honest.

Here's something - when I suggested a place to meet last night, she gave me that horrible snicker she's learned. I don't know what she didn't like about my choice (a harmless coffee shop). She has these mannerisms and this pride now that she seems to put on display to make me feel like a triviality and an annoyance to her. I have to fight very hard to not be affected by them. I have to remember that she may be in the driver's seat, and she may like to show that off, but I'm still the strong one and she isn't watching where she's going.

GC

oh yeah, i just can hear the snicker now <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> my H does some things like that too. not too long ago and i know you read it, he laughed at something i called about and i asked him why he was laughing, of course he said that it wasn't funny and he wasn't really laughing. whatever.

again, you kind of have to pick some of the battles. try to avoid "what" questions. you could say something like how would you feel about this place, would this place be okay, do you have a suggestion. unless you have a real objection something she chooses then go w/what she wants (stinks i know). if it's more of a bigger decision then just treat it as a negotiation. if you can't agree then step back and wait then come back to the issue.

just continue to be on your guard, don't expect for her to care for you or meet any of your needs because she can't right now. keep us posted. prayers to you, RR

Thanks to all for the cheerleading. I'm not as upbeat as yesterday - torn up from thinking she's living it up without me and considers us done - but in just over an hour I'm heading off to the meeting place. Pray for me to be strong and for the sparrow to lose a little of that armor.

GC

Will do Gray!

Gray - That is exactly what we will do for you. I pray that things will work out for you the way they are suppose to. I am a firm believer that things happen for a reason. The hard part is figuring out what that reason is!

You sound much stronger keep on the track and doing what you need to be doing. You will get over this mound and things will improve.

Your increasing strength is awesome. You are doing really well and your words constantly sound stronger. You really are doing great. Keep going and you will overcome this challenge.

We met for about 45 minutes. She did not tell me she wants to come home, but... well, here:

She asked about my investigation into her retirement money. She had that looking-to-fight face, but it was not as sturdy as it has been, like her heart wasn't in it. I told her I'd looked into it at a time when I was in a very dark, panicky state, and that I was sorry. I offered to give her the PIN. The fighting face slackened.

She asked what I plan to do with the house. I said that before I get into it, I just want to say that I don't want to get divorced, I think we could have a future together, and that if she were to file, I'd understand, but I couldn't in good conscience go along with it (almost verbatim from all y'all's advice). She said she respected that.

I started to talk about the alternatives for the house, should it come to that. All involve me keeping it. I told her my plans for adding a bathroom and getting a renter if I have to. As I described the alternatives for her getting out of the mortgage, her head sunk lower and lower towards the tabletop. Her eyes misted over. Her armor was gone.

She said that she misses the house, that she misses having stability.

We talked about how to split up the money sitting in our bank account. I said I hadn't thought about it. She said after giving me her half of the house payment and paying her rent she'd have nothing left of her paycheck. I said she should use what she needs from our joint account until things get stable for her, and we'd figure out the credit card (which I'd thought she paid but she hadn't) later. I said I know you aren't going to do anything outlandish.

I confessed that when I told her my initial doctor's appointment was for stomach trouble, it was a lie. I said I didn't want you to feel guilty. She said I do feel guilty. I told her I was being treated for depression and that it would continue for several months. Her head sunk and her eyes misted over again.

She talked about her therapist. The day she said she wanted a divorce, she said this therapist was flaky and that she was really great. Tonight she said I don't like this therapist and need to find somebody else.

She talked about needing to be more in touch with her feelings, and needing to learn to stand up for herself. She said she developed bad habits for dealing with her feelings when her father was dying.

I told her I have lots of things to work on too. I said I had made an appointment with a therapist. I said I had an appointment with a dentist (I need lots of dental work and am terrified of dentists). She was glad to hear I've finally gotten it together to start with that.

She said it's hard knowing the right thing to do. She talked about how she has disappointed so many people. She nearly cried several times.

I said I would always be there for her. She said she was sorry, and I told her I am going to forgive her. She said thank you and misted over again.

I told her that I've been in contact with OM's W. She asked me what I know and I told her. She looked utterly ashamed and said it was all true.

I asked her if she's been going to yoga. She said she hasn't gone in two weeks, that she's been too tired. I noticed how thin her arms are and put my hand on her arm and stroked her wrist with my thumb. She sunk further and did not stop me. I told her she was getting too thin. She's 5'2" but has always had a figure (she looks amazing without clothes, like a tiny Italian statue). She's a stick now. She said that since she's stopped yoga and has lost weight her allergies have come back.

Several times I looked into her pleading eyes for long stretches with love and compassion. After a bit longer she said she needed to get going.

We walked to the corner and she thanked me and hugged me, and we went to our cars.

GC

You did excellent, GC. Really - I'm sure it will stick in her mind for a long long time. I'm glad to hear it went so well. Her armour is cracking - that's a very very good thing. For someone who wanted to leave so she could be happy - she sounds miserable.

Also at one point she said, "You're a great person." ... If only I could make her get the hots for me.

GC

graycloud - Sounds very promising. She will get the hots for you again when OM is out of the picture. You did fine.

Graycloud - It sounds like the fog may be lifting. You did a great job. Must be something in the atmosphere this week. WH and I had some what of a break through too this week, although he still doesn't want to come home (YET!). Keep doing what your doing. You have now become the strong one, so sure of what you are doing, and she is weak and confused.