I think my old post has gotten, well..old. I'm back from a week of vacation in Florida and it seems a good time to start a new thread.

LL

<small>[ July 07, 2004, 07:42 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

Welcome back. How was your trip?

yeah, don't leave us hangin <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

LL,

Yup, good time to start a new thread.

So, um.... YOUR turn! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WH stayed at my house while I was gone, to take care of the animals, and I loaned him my car since he hasn't replaced his truck after his rollover. (On a sidenote, his insurance check was deposited today, so he now has no excuse not to get another vehicle.)

He sent txt while I was in FL saying we needed to talk, that he didn't think he could live without me or the kids, that he KNOWS he can't live with OW, and that he feels it's affecting his health and he's losing his will to live.

We talked later and he asked if he had to leave the house when I got home. I asked what he wanted and he said he wanted to come home.

Then the fear kicked in and instead of giving him a "that's wonderful! Let's talk about what needs to happen" answer, I hesitated and then started to spew out my requirements. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

A) OW must be gone.
B) No drinking--must get help.
C) No staying out late after work.
D) Must answer cell phone when I call.
E) No yelling, anger, cursing around home.
F) Attend MC to learn what normal marriage is.
G) I don't want to lose the relative "peace" that I currently have in the house. Don't want chaos back.

That pretty much scared him.

I asked him when the last time he saw OW was. Answer: Earlier that day.

The story is again that her friends are finally going to kick her out and she will be moving 35 miles away. WH says that will put the end to the relationship because of the distance.

I still don't feel like he's really ready to give her up. I just think that he's feeling physically lousy, he has no home, he has no vehicle, and he's uncomfortable.

So, after our Sunday talk I was feeling REALLY guilty because I wondered if this was the break I was supposed to jump on to get him back, and I hesitated and scared him away because I'm really terrified that I'll go through that h*ll again.

Sunday night he calls me again, this time with chest pain and nausea. I told him to go to ER if he thought it was a heart attack. Nothing I can do from FL. He thought it was anxiety.

Phone rings early Monday morning--him asking what hospital to go to. He was in extreme pain and decided that he was passing a kidney stone.

He passed it Monday evening and is better now, though his urologist (saw him today) says he still has more stones. More tests in a few weeks to make sure the kidney is functioning properly and then they may do a procedure to get rid of them.

So, he spent last night at my place but found an apartment that he will be renting month-to-month again. Not sure when he closes. Not sure where he's staying until then. Again, he claims OW isn't moving in with him.

He's still drinking--had several swallows from his traveling bottle of Jack on the way to the doctor this morning. I assume he's also still communicating with her (and in fact, she probably looked at the apartment with him last night), because his phone beeped several times last night with new messages.

He says he's moving on this apartment deal because of my answer to his "Do I have to leave the house?" question. Says he's not going to continue to be homeless and that he's "moving on" with his life because I made it clear that I was perfectly fine living alone and maintaining peace.

I explained that it's not that I want to be alone, but that I don't want the A, the drinking, and the anger and yelling, and accusations back. I also told him that I couldn't just immediately have him move back and pretend nothing happened. I need some time to see changes before I let him back home.

I asked if the tables were turned, if he could just forget that anything happened. He said yes. We see it differently.

We also got into a BAD fight over $ last night. He knows if we D that he gets half of my retirement. However, when I asked what he was doing with the extra $ he's going to have from the camper sale if it goes through, and from his insurance settlement (buying a cheaper car), he got very defensive and told me HE was the one who paid for this truck he rolled with the proceeds from his motorcycle accident settlement and that I best not forget that he paid off my car loan, too.

I can see this get ugly if we don't get back together. He's going to net about $10,000 after all is said and done with the truck settlement and if the camper sells. I've been making home equity loan payments monthly since he moved out that shouldn't have happened, because the deal was for us to sell the camper months ago and pay off the home equity loan, but of course that didn't happen. I doubt I'll ever be reimbursed the $1000+ for the loan payments.

Then I got angry and told him to just stop paying me anything, that I'd figure things out on my own. And he got all apologetic and told me he wasn't trying to screw me out of money.

I think I missed applying a bunch of MB concepts over the last few days.

So...did I do the right thing? The wrong thing?

LL

lordslady - You did the right thing. (Not letting him move back in.) You need to stick to the NC with OW, no drinking scenario. Otherwise you will be back in the same miserable marriage.

LL -

I've never talked to you before but I read your post and it struck such a chord with me, because of the alcoholism. I grew up in a home where my dad was an alcoholic. He was gentle and kind and I loved him, but my mom couldn't do what she needed to do, and that was kick him out until he quit drinking. She just didn't understand.

I spent the last 5 years of his life and the first 4 years of my only daughters life taking care of him while he drank himself to death. Literally. I had him on one are and baby in the other going from detox to rehab to police station, and on and on and on.

My Mother died 8 mo's before him, I think she just checked out, because she just couldn't take it anymore, and she couldn't do what would have got him sober.

DO NOT allow him to come home until he quits drinking and is working a program. He has to bottom out, and then rebuild himself/his life and then you will be able to have what you want with him. He is close to bottoming out now. Very close.

I think you did the right thing, definately. Keep doing it, for you, for him and for the kids(if you have kids).

(I'm sorry if I am out of line posting to you like this, but I loved my parents so much and this really hit home)

As for the vacation, here's sort of what I posted on my other thread last night:
----------------------------------
Had a really nice trip. I LOVE Disney World! It was very hot and humid, but we only had one day of afternoon storms.

We spent one afternoon at Cocoa Beach. (LNH, I thought of the cruise you recently took when we passed the Canaveral port--there was a Carnival cruise ship docked there. This is the first time I've seen one that close. They are HUGE!)

The kids enjoyed their first ever flights for the most part. We were delayed going down because of weather and today because of mechanical, so the travel days were very long. And our plane to Des Moines from St. Louis today was a puddle jumper--they switched equipment after I booked the tickets, I guess. I make a habit of NEVER flying if there are propellers, and haven't had fly them for 8 years. I guess I survived...but just barely. They even had to shift people around to redistribute weight.

Both my kids and DS's girlfriend were very well-behaved overall. DD did overspend her budget (NEVER give your teenager charge privledges on your Disney room account and let them go unsupervised!)

All in all, it was probably the most pleasant vacation I've ever taken.

LL

LL

You are not the same scared woman you used to be... you have strength and wisdom and courage.

I admire you !

Pep

Weaver,

DO NOT allow him to come home until he quits drinking and is working a program. He has to bottom out, and then rebuild himself/his life and then you will be able to have what you want with him. He is close to bottoming out now. Very close.

I think you did the right thing, definately. Keep doing it, for you, for him and for the kids(if you have kids).

First, I do have kids. Daughter is 14 and has a LOT of behavior problems. She's got ADHD and is also a lot like her father. I believe part of her issues are simply her personality, but I'm sure a lot came from growing up in a home with an alcoholic who was often difficult to be around even when he wasn't drinking.

My other "child", my son, is an adult now. He turned 18 last month and graduated from HS. He's going away to college this fall.

While what I did (not allowing WH to come back yet) may sound good in theory, I'm concerned about my motives for doing it. It wasn't simply to help him.

I am fast reaching a point where I want to move on with my life, and not just be a "single" married person forever. I wonder frequently now if there is someone else out there for me.

On one hand, I wonder if I can ever get past what has happened and have a normal M with him. I do fine just being around him, but when I can't think of anything intimate with him. Every time I try, all I can think of are things he's said about OW, and things I know they've done, and how he walked away from the kids and me and told me he needed to do this to see if it was what would make him happy since he wasn't happy at home. If he comes back, I feel like it's not because he really wants to, but because his first choice didn't work out. I will be the fallback girl.

But then when he acts like he's moving on with his life, I start thinking maybe I'm going to miss him and I think about how weird the future might be if he's not in it with me. I worry about him.

Am I screwed up or what??!?

(Pep...not sure it's courage and strength and wisdom. May be insanity setting in.)

LL

LL - no you are not screwed up. I kicked my fiance out a while ago (when I joined this forum)
And I am having a lot of the same feelings you are. When he doesn't call and act like he still wants to be here, I get very confused. I don't know if I want him or can forget about all the pain at the same time.

But you sound great and you don't have to take him back. My doctor just told me that yesterday. He said any relationship that makes you physically sick and brings you such pain is not really worth it. And then he said again, like I still didn't get it "YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE HIM BACK".

So I guess it's a big club, heh?

That's one of the reasons I come here--just to see if I'm totally wacked out or if I'm normal (as normal as one can be as a BS). <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

While it was great to be away and spend a week in Florida with the kids, I missed this board.

LL

LL, I was going to post exactly what Pep posted already. So, ditto what Pep said!

You ROCK! You truly do. You are so much more than you thought you were. I had a feeling you were . . . <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

SS

Thanks SS. Maybe if I read it from enough people, I'll eventually believe it.

Maybe someday I'll even get strong enough to kill spiders!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

LL

I think that week vacation did you well Lady. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
I'm proud of you for standing up for yourself. For just a second I thought you would let him move back in, but you didn't.. good for you! Stick in there, unless he change, don't let him back in. He is feeling life without you. see.. in a week he cracked.. he is feeling like his comfort rug is being pulled under him, and its scary. So now stick to your guns if you want to have a new marriage, and even if you do not stay with him, it looks like you've got stronger girl!

Power to you...

big hugs from Brussels

LL, love to see you coming back. I did few post to your old thread to keep it up. But you know my recent development, I was not able to do much. But I am so thrilled to see you where you are now, emotionally, physically. You are really Lordslady and you are setting me a good example how we can be weak but glorify GOD's will.

LNH,

I just read your recent posts and posted back to you. I am thinking about you. You will be okay. You're much stronger than you think you are.

I don't feel strong most of the time, dispite what others might say. I just keep my mind occupied so that I don't think about things.

I want so much to do what God wants, but my thoughts aren't all that Godly sometimes. I'm losing my will to stay married, yet I don't want WH out of my life either. I"m rather confused, so I just keep plodding along in limbo because it's the easiest thing to do. No real decisions to make this way.

I'm a little concerned tonight, so am trying to refocus. WH was going to stay here again because a bunch of his stuff is here from staying last week while I was gone. He called several hours ago to say he'd be here shortly. But he never arrived and never called back either. As usual, I always think cycle accident, but no police officer has called yet. This is the kind of stuff he did all the time when we were together, and he thinks nothing of it. I guess it's a sign to me that he's nowhere near changing yet, because it's one of the things I said would have to end in order for me to rebuild trust.

Also, my daughter snuck out this evening while I was cleaning the turtle's tank. I should have known, as she was doing her hair just before that, but she didn't say anything about leaving. My cell phone is missing too, but when I call it she doesn't answer. I'm not sure where she went. The only one who actually confirmed with me where he was going was my son.

So I could worry about DD (because I suspect she's with someone much too old) and I could worry about WH. But I think I'll try my best to trust it to God and have a glass of cold milk and go to bed soon, and pray that everyone is okay in the morning.

LL

Glad you had a great trip, I LOVE DisneyWorld. I would love to move to Fl so I could go more often...

Interesting developments about your H wanting to move back home, but yet when you gave him the qualifications for a M with you...he baled...again. And to show you he was NOT going to follow your idea of M, he went out and broke every one of YOUR "rules".

Look at what one week of limited contact did to him...what about Plan B? It would not be hard now, there is such limited contact. But don't kid yourself, the very limited contact he has with you is his lifeline to enable him to keep going in his current lifestyle. He's not really felt he's losing you...even though he is. It's time.

It's time to write him a Plan B letter where you tell him why you can't be in contact with him (too painful) and the path he can take if he chooses to come back...but it is up to him. And then no more contact...or limit the contact to emails about finances or kids...set some ground rules. He needs to rely more on OW and see she is only there for the party... He needs to stand on his own and begin to see what his actions are doing to his life. He has been blaming you for his troubles... Get out of his way!

Your DD is in trouble. Time to sit down with her and tell her the rules...if she leaves without telling you where she is going then you will consider her running away and you will call the police. Think of as many 'what ifs...' as you can and the consequences to each action. Then watch out for the fireworks because she will test EACH ONE of the consequences you laid out. In your conversation with her, write it out, make a copy for both of you, keep an extra copy, give to the police too. In our state a parent can request a teen be put on probation if they are not following rules at home (only used for extreme cases like your DD). The probation officer then requires the teen to make a certain grade point average, have a curfew, counseling, etc. Is on for a about a year and gets off ONLY if they obey the rules of probation...otherwise they go to juvenile detention (not a bad place here...but definitely not what a kid wants...a bit like time out, not bad, but a kid hates to feel punished). Look into your options. Talk to the police or family services (CPS?) they may have some programs/ideas.

SHMI, good to hear from you again. As for your comment:

Look at what one week of limited contact did to him...what about Plan B?

Our contact was really no more limited last week while I was gone than it has been for weeks now. I talked to him daily. I think what really bothered him was that we were 1400 miles away on a vacation to a place he's used to going with us and he was basically homeless and carless and he didn't feel good.

By the way, as for how last night went after my last post....

WH finally called at 11:30pm to tell me he'd crashed for a while on the couch at OW's friends place. OW and her girlfriend were at the skanky bar--it was 'ladies night out'. WH wasn't sure if he was sleeping at the shop or what.

I told him it was too late at that point to come to my place to stay and that I would have appreciated a courtesy call saying he wasn't coming, since the last call I received at 9pm said he was on his way and would be there shortly.

He called again at 1:30am, angry, to tell me he was staying at Motel 6 (yuck!) because he was tired of all the s**t and wanted a real shower. Not sure if he and OW got into it or if she was still not back from the bar and he was tired of waiting. He was angry because he said he'd been trying to call me and I hadn't answered. I didn't hear a phone ring, so not sure what he did wrong, but at any rate, he's the one in the wrong.

I gave him a chance to prove that he could show respect (come over when he said) and he blew it. He didn't show, didn't answer my calls, and didn't return a call until hours later. This is exactly what I fear will happen if he gives up OW and comes back. He'll still only call or show up when he's good and ready, and then I'll be the one who gets the blame if I complain about it.

-------------------------------------------------
Also, DD called at midnight to say she was with some girl, Sarah (of course, no last name). She has my cell phone which also angers me. And then when I asked when she'd be home, she said she didn't know, and that she was shutting the phone off. And she did.

I haven't been able to contact her, and she didn't show up all night. I talked to our police department this morning to ask their opinion. They said I could file a missing person's report on her, or I could wait a few hours to see if she returns.

Of course, I had to go to work so won't know when she shows up until I get home, unless she calls. I did't file a report yet, but may shortly if she doesn't show up. I'll have to run home, get a photo, stop at the police station--it'll probably take a good 2 hours out of my day and I was already late this morning because of stopping at the station to talk to them. I'm afraid it could start to jeopardize my job.

I'm not sure the consequences yet. No one has offered putting her on probation. I don't think they'll do that in my town unless she commits a crime of some kind. The officer today asked if I'd considered placing her in a facility for a time, but that would either require me to pay out of pocket $1000's or I'd have to sign over temporary custody to the state to get them to pay. I can't do option #1 and WON'T do option #2. My insurance will only pay for inpatient treatment if she's suicidal.

So...I wait. And I pray that she's okay. I don't think she ran out of state, and the police department hasn't had any reports of juveniles being involved in serious accidents since midnight. I'm pretty sure she's okay, but want her to come home. Then I have to decide what to do with her. Laying down the law myself doesn't seem to phase her. Her personality is a lot like her father's. It's all about them. They don't show much consideration for others.

So, it's raining, dreary, I have a migraine coming on, I'm tired, and I'm a little worried. Starting off to be not the greatest day. Hopefully it'll improve.

LL

I had been lurking on your threads for a while but really stopped posting because I am getting frustrated with your un-MB-like actions. The forum is great and you are getting help, but are you following the MB principles? You are moving along doing hte same things month after month, getting the same results, month after month. You want him back, but not willing to Plan A or Plan B. Are you doing ANYTHING to try to get your M back? No, then you say you don't know if you want it...then what...

I say, try Plan B again. Cut out the contact. Why does he call YOU when he's in trouble? You are his support, and you are preventing him from hitting bottom!!!!!

As for DD, the police aren't necessarily the greatest resource when it comes to knowing all the help out there. You can call the school or family services (anonymously) and ask what services are out there. You can call the probation office and see what they say. Come up with your list of consequences, be prepared.
Talk it over with DD. Some actions have strict consequences, and some actions she can request what consequence she has. Then be FIRM!!! about those consequences, as I said before, she will test your resolve on each one of the consequences.