Hello--I normally post in the JFO section, although I'm a bit past that situation now. Briefly, my husband has had 2 PA; there were lots of problems in the marriage, many of them due to my depression and emotional isolation. I went to plan A, and he has told me that he wants to stay in the marriage....but continue contact with OW as a "friend".

What I'm finding is that, as a result of plan A, I have been able to come out of my shell, and really interact more with people, which is a gift! And WH is responding to that; he says when I am happy, it makes him happy, and that I needn't worry about "competition" from OW as she is "just a friend".

I don't quite buy this, and here are my questions for you all:

1) I find that he wants to talk about the relationship, and in the spirit of the "new me", I am being quite honest about my feelings...but should I even be doing this when he continues to see OW?? To say, " I don't want to talk because you're seeing OW" seems like I am cutting off conversation...

I know plan A is about "enticing the WS back to the relationship".....none of the honest conversations have been "nasty" or filled with LB, so I continue them...

2) His continued contact with OW is draining me. And I have told him this, and he continues to see her..I have even told him that I cannot continue in this state forever, and his response was that if I left him, he would "never forgive me"..it's a bit too early to go to plan B, but if (when?) I do, is plan B supposed to come out of left field? I think it is, but wasn't sure...

Just need some direction (and reminders) about what plan A is and isn't supposed to be. I'm worried that I'm feeling somewhat emotionally detached from him; I want to talk to him and of course I want him in the marriage, but he continues to be disrespectful. I'm not ready to give up on plan A at all; just feeling that maybe I'm getting ahead of myself with all of these conversations about the relationship as opposed to terminating contact with OW. (of course, he doesn't want to talk about termination--he wants to talk about the relationship!)

Thanks for your input!

cciyer, I think you are doing a great job in Plan A and your instincts about ending contact are right on. There is no hope of recovery until he ends contact. I would make sure he understands this.

You may well have to move to Plan B if he doesn't end contact so I would start planning for that right now. A good amount of time in Plan A is around 3 months for women. If it goes too much longer than that, it can actually work against you, because it cements the relationship between he and the OW.

I would continue to tell him you can't live with his continued contact with the OW and continue telling him how you feel.

I would also do everything you can to make the affair VERY UNCOMFORTABLE. Exposing the affair to everyone who is key in your lives is essential. It takes away all the excitement of a secret, fantasy affair and exposes it for the ugly, putrid thing it really is. Suddenly all the silly rationalizations for the affair look very stupid and silly.

So, expose, expose, expose and get ready for Plan B!

Sounds like you're seeing positive effects from Plan A, but you still have a cake-eating WS.

Plan A is an effort to negotiate the end of the affair by a betrayed spouse. In it, you attempt to do so by using Radical Honesty and no lovebusting to POJA the end of the affair. It's good that you're being honest, not lovebusting, and showing good marital behavior---and it's paying off.

It's my opinion that Plan B is best when it does "come out of left field", as opposed to a response to something the WS has done. When you do this, it's clear to the WS that YOU are doing something that YOU need to do. When done in response to something the WS has done, the perception is more of punishment. How long have you been in Plan A? If it's been more than a couple months, then I think you should be preparing for Plan B---get the letter written, an idea on where you can go (if you're moving out), and a support network in place.

Here's an excellent overview of Plan A by Cerri (who is a MB trained coach) :


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Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)

Now, Plan B IS all about you, the betrayed partner. It's about getting you out of and away from a situation that is horribly painful and, let's face it, degrading. Plan B is taking the stance that enough is enough and that although you want the marriage to succeed you will no longer be part of a triangle. And that you care enough about the marriage to know that you need to protect the love you still have for your partner.

Now, nowhere in any of that is the idea that the faithful partner needs to make life easy and comfy for the straying spouse!! No need to bend over backwards to be a doormat. Certainly no need to be afraid to trigger guilt!! Good god!! They should feel guilty!!!

Thanks so much! I have only been in plan A for about a month, (maybe month and a half), so I still think it's too early for plan B...although, yes, I have been mentally preparing myself for that step...

The strange thing is that, in his mind, the affair IS over. He sees nothing wrong with maintaining a friendship...but I have told him there is still secrecy about it, there is secrecy about their communication...so in MY mind, it isn't over. Maybe a more accurate position is that it moved from a PA to an EA. (and even that, I hate to say, I'm not sure of either....he never admitted that it was PA; I discovered this by reading an email.)

Again, appreciate the responses, and looking forward to hearing more viewpoints.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by cciyer:
<strong>

The strange thing is that, in his mind, the affair IS over. He sees nothing wrong with maintaining a friendship...but I have told him there is still secrecy about it, there is secrecy about their communication...so in MY mind, it isn't over.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is so silly, of course it is an affair. If she were his "friend" then she should come over and have dinner with the family tonight. Nor does a sane man sacrifice his marriage over a "friend."

Tell him to invite his "friend" over for dinner tonight and you can ALL be friends! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Is she married?

She is not married....and actually WH does want her to come over! So that we can all be "friends"....it's ME who doesn't want to do this (this is a woman who told him that I was "self-indulgent" and incapable of serious change. She has met me ONCE. )

Should I? Should we all have dinner together? I think I might just LOSE IT!

I just want her out of our life.....maybe I'm the one with the problem.