Hello,

I've been lurking and haven't really posted because I had no hope for my M. Well, things might have changed... I'm hoping you can provide me with some advice on recovery w/ my WH after his A. H orignally thought of his A as an exit-A, but now he wants to talk reconciliation. (I can hardly believe it - I was in Plan B.)

However, he referred to OW as "sweet" and "wonderful" (what?? she knowingly became involved w/ a MM, lied to him about me, called me at all hours of the night, mocked me over the phone and encouraged him to have an A and end his M -- real sweet). (sorry for the vent )

Here's my question... he admits he will have a hard time with NC and I'm afraid that he will relapse (or fail altogether)... what did you do to help end contact? what can I do to help him? how long did it take for you to see the OW's true self/colors? is it wrong or a big LB for me to politely point out her wrong/mean behavior and other things? any other advice that you can give? what did your spouse do that was helpful in brining you out of the fog and into a good M, and what was not helpful/hurtful?

Also, my H thinks MB is stupid, but he's willing follow a plan to rebuild our M. So, the plan I'm suggesting is based on what I've learned through reading and MB. How do I help him understand some basic concepts, such as no selfish demands, etc? I'm not intending this as a DJ, it's just that I think my H can be very selfish and that this helped contribute to his A and other problems. For example, he has said ...you meet my needs first, then we'll talk about meeting your needs. My needs were always second place before the A and he did a lot of DJ and LBing, so I withdrew emotionally and physically, and then my H felt justified in having an A (and blaming it on me) and thought the M was over. When and how did you learn the basic concepts that helped rebuild your M and make it better?

Thanks!

I'm not a FWH but I thought your thread could use a bump up from page 2.

To help make NC successful, you two should write the NC letter together, and then YOU send it to OW. If she's M, send her H a copy too.

How did your H typically contact OW? If via cellphone, his cell # should change (or you should get his cell and he should get a new one).

If via pager, his pager number should change.

If at a leisure function, he should find a replacement activity - preferably one that you can attend, too.

If there was any email communication, he should give you all his passwords and he should put rules on his email so that any emails from her are either instantly deleted or forwarded to you.

Sit down with your H and brainstorm this. This is an excellent opportunity for POJA.

Regarding getting H to understand the concepts - would he be willing to read Surviving An Affair, and do all the questionnaires? That would be an *excellent* way to start.

Have you considered marital counseling? A good counselor can help you navigate the troubled waters.

We did two years of IC and MC...It worked miracles for us and saved our marriage.

Susan

CNH,

I am a FWH, and I'll give you my opinion, but keep in mind that that's all it is...an opinion.

It sounds to me like H is starting to realize OW isn't quite what she seemed during the A. Perhaps the chinks in her armor are starting to show, or she's taken the armor off altogether.

I personally think my W handled things about as well as any W could when she found out about the A. She was upset, but she never ranted or screamed. She wanted details, so I told her. She listened, without interupting or becoming hysterical. I said that some things in our marriage were possibly contributing factors, and she was willing to consider this. (I now realize that no matter what the contributing factors, my actions were wrong, don't misunderstand).

My suggestion is this...rather than bad mouth the OW, which will be hard, I'm sure, it might be better to try and make H remember why he fell in love with you in the first place. Don't compete with her, or make comparisons. Refuse to allow comparisons, because you are way above her. You need to remember that, but not necessarily scream it in his face.

It will be hard for him to maintain N/C. It's like a drug addiction. I liken it to when I quit smoking.

It took me a good six months to get through the fog, and that was after N/C was REALLY established. There were a couple of times it was started and broken by e-mails, etc.

My biggest concern for you right now is his "selfishness". To say, "You meet my needs, then I'll consider meeting yours" is NOT in any way acceptable in a marriage. It's a mutual thing. My strongest recommendation here is M/C for the both of you, and I/C for him. He's got some serious inferiority issues going on here, it sounds like. Which is common for WS's. A big reason for most A's is the boost to the ego, that's why it's so hard to give up.

Anyway, stay firm, set some boundaries, but most of all try not to LB and try to show him that if he's willing to honestly work on recovery that you want it and him.

Oscar

Thank you for the replies - this is a difficult time for me and the advice has really helped! (I also posted on the recovery site and received great advice from different people, so I will continue to post on both boards - I need all the help & advice I can get).

I have a few more questions based on my last conversation with my H...

Info. about the A:
My H says that he is willing to go to NC completely. I was surprised, but then he said that he & OW are no longer seeing one another (so I'm thinking...oh, so that's why you're so willing to give her up). I asked why they were no longer together and he refused to tell me. "It's private." Question: this seems completely disrespectful and offensive to say to me - am I right to be angry? Don't I have a right to know?

Defending Her:
I think the "it's private" comment is another form of defending her. Also, he still seems to want to defend her... (Oscar - good advice - I made one small comment about OW - it was tame, but I see now that I shouldn't do that.) However, it's one thing for me not to criticize her, but it's another for him to defend her or even say nice things about her. How do I explain to my H how much this hurts and how wrong this is? He doesn't seem to get it. I think it's a matter of him showing me respect for me (this has always been a problem for him) and getting his priorities in line, am I right?

His Responsibility:
He was not 100% honest last night about the A and it was like pulling teeth to get any info. out from him. I had facts that prove he is not being honest - and his answer was often "I don't remember." Is he in denial? Also, he still wants to blame the A on me, and I don't think he is taking his share of the blame for the state of our R leading up to the A. I certainly was not happy or getting my needs met (at all) and I felt he treated me like dirt, yet I didn't throw the M in the garbage and have an A. Is this part of the recovery process, or should he know by now that we share blame for the state of the M, but he is 100% to blame for his choice to ditch the M & start an A? How do I get him to understand this and take responsibility?

Helping your BW Recover:
FWH's... what did you do to help your BW feel safe & secure in your love again and to help her feel like you were truly sorry and it would never happen again? Can I say that if he has any contact or I find anything memorabilia remotely relating to her, then we are through? Is that too rough?
FWHs: what conditions did your wives place on you that helped her & your M to recover?

Questions RE: denial and fog:
He wants me to do a few things to help us rebuild our friendship and trust. (e.g., I took the wedding album because I was afraid he would destroy it - now he wants it to make a copy and I'm not sure I trust him yet). I feel like it's time for HIM to be showing some action to make me feel better and rebuild my trust, but in his mind it seems to be all about him and what I can do. (again, a problem in our M - it's always all about him & I'm always to blame for everything, even his bad behavior - obviously I'm venting a little, but I'm tired of this - I'm not just cute, I'm D@MN cute and I have options too - joking - sorry, venting again)

As I said above, my feelings are really raw, and although I'm getting more from H than I thought he would give after the things he said to me on DDay, I'm still torn up - I nearly had a nervous breakdown with all the cruel and hateful things he did (the things he said and did were really extreme in some cases) and now he seems to hardly remember them. My friends were so worried about me then and they will not understand how I can even talk to him again. How can he just forget how awful he was and all the things he said? Is that another form of his selfishness or denial or inability to take responsibility? Is this common - or more common when H thought it was an exit-A?

I appreciate any help you can give me. Thank you!!!

sorry - double post

<small>[ June 25, 2004, 09:58 AM: Message edited by: cutenothot ]</small>

bump - any help on my recent questions? thanks!