I'm taking the liberty of starting a new thread for onlywords (I hope you don't mind) so we can focus more specifically on her situation and not thread-jack Pepperband's *Love*Bank*Deposits* thread.

Recovering H and I had discussion about this last night...he was upset that I couldn't come up with more ideas for "deposits"....ok, I've been busy, I didn't want to just rattle things off the top of my head, I wanted to think about it, take it seriously, give it some thought....but I didn't do it FAST enough, so now he thinks he's the only one working on this marriage, and right now I'd just settle for the absence of Love Busters....does that count? For instance, if one of the love busters is contradicting me or otherwise making comments in public that degrade me in some way, then would a deposit be "NOT contradicting me or otherwise making comments that degrade me in front of someone else" be a Deposit?
I've been trying to understand a guy's perspective, because it seems to center around sex so much that I end up feeling like he thinks that's the only thing I have going for me, and that, to me, is a MAJOR "love-buster". How do we come to a happy medium on that, when "More sex" is something he wants from me as a deposit, and "less pestering and groping and one-track-mindedness" is a deposit he can make for me????

Pepper, I've noticed that you make comments about this "guy" thing a lot....where does that come from in your case?

Anyway, I DID think about this, told him so, and still got busted on , so I feel that my attempt just wasn't good enough, that I'm not doing anything significant to help our marriage. I know that he feels bad about this, but doesn't know what to do to make it stop. And he wants to know how the OM was able to make so many deposits so fast and I couldn't come up with an answer to that...I'm not so sure he really made that many deposits, it's just that there weren't many withdrawals, not enough to cause a major imbalance anyway.

Also, for so long I think I've shut myself off emotionally from Recovering H because he wasn't opening up emotionally to me....so I stopped wanting anything so as not to be disappointed and all I ever thought about was what I wished he WOULDN'T do as opposed to what I wished he WOULD do.

Help???

onlywords,

I've read somewhere that one LB can undo 20 deposits in the old love bank. I think that was just an out-of-the-air remark made to demonstrate how damaging LBs can be -- but it *is* true that one LB can make huge withdrawals.

I know in my own M the big problems are not really the deposits; H is a little misguided and focusing too hard in some not-so-important (to me) areas, when I wish he'd put that energy in more important (to me) areas... but the BIG hurdle is the LBs.

Not only do LBs make withdrawals at an alarming rate, they also make it very difficult to approach your spouse and say "I wish I had more of this and less of that" or "It hurts my feelings when you cuss at me". The LBs are so commonplace you feel like you're just going to get knocked down again. Who wants to go into that situation?

So you end up NOT saying anything, Recovering H ends up NOT knowing how he can improve. You're withdrawn and resentful, he's confused and resentful... it's a difficult place to pick yourselves up out of.

I'd suggest you both read up on LBs again and then, while avoiding LBs yourself, point out to your H how specific actions of his make you feel. For example "H, when you said XXX, I felt like I was unimportant" or "...I felt like you were making fun of me" or "...I felt like I was being called stupid." Whatever. Let him know specific things he's said, and try to be as descriptive as possible in how those words make you feel.

Regarding the sex... you'll feel more and more like having sex as your love bank balance grows. For the time being, perhaps you could tell your H what would make sex more enjoyable. You mentioned pestering and groping. Would massages help? More kissing? Taking time to light candles, put on some music? Think about what might help you feel less "grabbed" and more "worshipped".

A good model for communication of this is:

WFTS

When _____________
I Feel _____________
I Think _____________
So I would like _____________

For example, here is one I should have used on my wife instead of getting mad because of spending.

When I ask you to spend less and your credit card bill is even bigger the next month, I feel like my concerns have not been heard, I think we can find a solution to this so we both find satisfaction, so I would like to go over our budget and spending to make sure that we both have the same set of agreed upon goals and expectations.

It may take a while before this sort of communication begins to work, and hopefully your partner too will see the benefits of sharing in this way.

Please notice I didn't blame. You want to simply share that when you do X, it makes me feel Y, you don't want to feel Y, so you would like to have some help avoiding feeling Y or perhaps understanding what his rationale behind X is, so you don't feel Y.

Like it was said before, if you just withdraw, then there is little or no hope for him to understand how you feel.

Another thing is he may have a hard time feeling your feelings, so perhaps you can paint a word picture.

I don't know the specifics of your situation, but let's just say you feel the marriage needs some work.

So you paint a word picture.

H, you understand how a home needs work. We love our home, but there are things we'd like to do to make it better. New windows, a new kitchen, a new den or workshop for your hobby, fix that sticking toilet, stuff like that. You can't just buy a house and expect it remain in like new condition without some work.

H, I believe this is true of our marriage as well. I like being married to you, and I want to do some things to keep the marriage well maintained. Perhaps we can set aside some time to do fun things together, date like we did before we married, work on improving our communication so we understand each other better, I know you want more and better sex, things like that.

What are your thoughts on this?

See, you are not blaming him, but using an analogy that he can understand to convey your message. You validate that you've heard his concerns you understand his needs, so it's not just about what you think he is doing wrong. The conversation is about how do we start with what is good and make it better.

This may work a lot better than, honey, we need to talk about our marriage. Especially if he, like most guys, thinks it's going to be about what he does wrong.

But, let me preface this with all of this is coming from a man whose wife is wayward and has filed for divorce, so I may just be all wet. So let's just say this is how I'd like for things to be going right now, but I don't have the opportunity to implement them 8^)

Tony

<small>[ June 25, 2004, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: javaSansContour ]</small>

Dear OnlyWords,

Are you really my wife? I know you are not, but I would swear watching you and Recovering Hs posts I do not have to write any of mine. We are facing EXACTLY the same issues to the point that it is SPOOKY.

Let me tell you how I feel. Maybe it will help you understand RH. What my W did was wrong. It hurt me tremendously. I would NEVER do what she did. I have truly forgiven her for what she has done, but the hurt has not gone away completely. The demons come when I am weak. They make me think crazy thoughts on occasion. I am working my @$$ off tying to be the best husband I can be. Giving with a CAPITAL G.

My W is shut down. Occasionally I get a small sign of appreciation or friendliness, but that is really it. The demons come and whisper to my flesh. They say things like she should be jumping through hoops to apologize and make me feel better for what she did. Why should I try so hard now? I have moved a lot, should she not move even a little? That’s what the demons tell me. And when I listen I LB and make big withdrawls.

I talk with food in my mouth. REALLY bothers runawaypot. Sometimes I am excited that we are talking and forget to chew and swallow. Sometimes I forget my manners and just do it. I don’t THINK I do it that often, but RAP would probably tell you she doesn’t think I can talk WITHOUT food in my mouth. ROFL. It doesn’t bother me, but it bothers her. Doesn’t matter why it bothers her, it does. So she will look at me and say in “the voice” (you know the one, the “button pushing voice”), she will say “Please don’t talk to me like that, it’s disgusting.” Bang. Here come the demons. They come and they whisper feeding my pride and indignation and say “Disgusting, DISGUSTING, I’ll tell you what DISGUSTING is, DISGUSTING is when you….(fill in your own sordid detail about the A here).” And I have to fight the demons off. And it is hard. REALLY hard. Most times I win because I am trying to be the “Capital G,” but RAP knows the husband she was married to for YEARS and he has a track record, so when I act differently from the old NCWalker, I sometimes think that confuses her. Or maybe she thinks she doesn’t deserve the giving. Or maybe she is waiting for the old NCW to come back and explode. Anyway, the one thing I know is that SHE is sorting out if she wants to be married to me. If she can have feelings for me. So there is like this tension. A scary tension. Like maybe it would be better if we were apart for a little while so we could BOTH sort through some stuff. But I am also scared to be apart from her for two reasons: 1 – the OM (obvious) and 2 – I am afraid I would find out I don’t want to be with her. I just feel the demons would have a field day, know what I mean? It is just tense in general, to be with her AND to be away from her.

So I try my best. LB deposits don’t really work. I think RAP is so frazzled. I think about what she is going through: guilt, self-worth issues, loss of an important companion (that is disgusting to me, but I can’t deny she had an attachment to get over, wrong or not), rejection (cast aside by OM, he is moving on), MANY triggers still, older feelings about me BEFORE all this cr@p. She is dealing with a lot. I try to understand it, but it is hard because I am not feeling it.

So I do my best and fight the demons. Sometimes I win and I feel REALLY GOOD about my M and my W and I just feel good. I feel like the hurt is gone over what she did. I feel peace about the marriage. God really has mercy on me and will give me an occasional respite to all the junk and garbage that I am feeling. A breather. But I am a stupid, swarthy, thinking with the “other” brain, cro-magnon MAN and when I get that break, the first thing I want to do is have sex. LOL. I would just be NICE, you know? I don’t think you do, maybe you do. I don’t know. I personally really enjoy the intimacy. Makes me feel like she WANTS to be with me. Makes me feel loved. Guy thinking. (We also don’t mind the O either.) LOL.

But the point is we have this pie graph going on. Because of recent events, I have this whole circle of hurt with a small sliver of NOT hurt, a skinny little pie slice. So does RAP. And this circle is spinning round and round. Sometimes the NOT hurt is at the top, sometimes at the bottom. RAP has a circle spinning too. What are the chances of them spinning at the same speed? NONE. What are the chances of them being at the top at the same time? NONE. Our “NOT hurt” slivers are TOO SMALL. So it’s like we cannot connect.

At least that is what I think is going on with us. Would be good if RAP posted her views here too.

The point is I REALLY love her and I REALLY want this to work. And my “NOT hurt” sliver hits the top out of synchronization with RAPs and then THAT hurts because that is when I want something from her, but her sliver is not at the top so she can’t really give then. I have to fight that down and sometimes I don’t do such a good job. That is when the demons are coming.

And I am a guy and I see this problem and I think FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT FIX IT. And I want to take care of her, I love her sooo much. And I want to make it better. And I can’t. You see, I am the BS. MOST of my hurt is because of what RAP did, so I tend to think two things that are probably wrong (the things I’m thinking, I mean): (1) since RAP gave me the hurt, she should take it away and (2) MOST of RAP’s hurt is the same thing. And it is frustrating because I WANT with ALL MY HEART for us to be better. (Remember, when you say “patience” to a guy, he is most likely thinking about a hospital, you know “patients.” LOL) But I think (and I really wish RAP would post to this) I think RAPs hurt is more complicated. Her really big piece of hurt is not only BIG but also TANGLED. Not only is hers made of what she did, but the OM, how I react, her guilt, etc, etc, etc. So while my piece of hurt is this nice, uniform color on my pie graph, hers is more like tie-died spaghetti in color. You know, tangled.

So I am looking at MY hurt and thinking “You know what, a BIG love bank deposit from RAP would take a huge chunk of this hurt away.” And it would, my hurt is pure, homogenous, and uniform. So that is what I try to give RAP. And it isn’t working and I get frustrated. Again, I think the problem is that RAPs hurt (back me up here RAP, I’m guessing) is TANGLED. So a big love bank deposit to her doesn’t help. Her “hurt” can’t really receive it. It won’t fit. It will just get all caught up in the tangles and probably make it worse. She tells me things sometimes like “Stop doing that for me.” And I hear “I don’t want you.” I think what she needs is time to untangle her hurt before she can get rid of it. And that is hard for me. I can’t help her do that but I want to with all my heart. And it makes me frustrated and angry and the demons come.

And I think when she reacts bad to my “little” love busters. To the annoying things I do, I think she is crying out for help and doesn’t know it. See NOT doing a love buster is like a teeny deposit. And THAT I think is what she needs. This teeny little deposit will FIT in the hurt part. Because it is teeny it can get in between the tangles. And she can use that as a stake or anchor point to help untangle her hurt which she has to do BEFORE she can begin cutting it away. I just don’t think you could go in with a machete and a weed-wacker and mow it all down. I don’t think RAP could take it. Maybe God could do it. I can’t.

And I see this and I think I am right on, it’s so hard to tell. And I will do anything it takes to make this better. And RAP is so scrambled right now, I am not sure she is sure what she needs. Or maybe I just don’t want to hear what she needs. But I am not perfect. I am hurt and frustrated. I love RAP sooo much. And I think RecoveringH loves you, too. I think our biggest crimes towards our WWs is trying too hard. But it is in our nature to do so. And we try and the demons come. And we have this big internal battle ourselves keeping our NOT hurt slivers from shrinking.

We are all selfish by nature. I think what Recovering H and I need – no, not need, it is not a need – what would be a BLESSING to Recovering H and I would be an occasional act of warmth. Take a break from sorting out the hurt when you feel like you can and just make a small effort that we can SEE. We need some reassurance that what we are doing is working, so we have the strength to last until the finish line. To keep our own NOT hurt slivers from shrinking. So we can at least look at the demons when the come and say “NO. You are NOT going to win this one.” If we have to do it by faith, I think both RH and I have the resolve to do so. And if that is what it is going to take, then so be it. A little warmth, on occasion, would just be nice, even though we know it is hard for you.

Hope I wasn't out of line with any of this. Helped me a great deal just to write it.

NCWalker

PS – Even though you are completely covered and wrapped up in tie-died spaghetti, you still look beautiful to us. We still love you.

Well, my H ncwalker was right. So right that I am sitting here crying like a baby.

onlywords,
I have thought early on that maybe our struggles are similar. I cannot put it all down here. I can't be that open. I don't even want to admit what is going on inside me. It hurts. I feel lost. I don't want to stay in this pity party. There is so much that has nothing to do with the A. It is just that the affair is like the thing that made it all explode. You know? I crushed my H, yet I don't feel I can even be available to him. This may sound like an easy way out to some BSs. It is not that I want to go back to Om, even if he wanted me. It is just that I don't know what is what right now. I am scared of how much needs to be fixed. I am scared that the problems that I have cried out to God about for so long(before A) never seemed to move.
So, I am getting a glimpse of what it will take. I have been selfish. I want to FEEL. The choice part is scary. Will it work? It doesn't seem to matter. It is about vows. I am not making sense.

My H was right. Idon't know about you onlywords. I don't want to tell you how you feel. It is hard enough to know that, much less verbalize it here. If you ever want to email privately, I would be happy to. Maybe we could talk it out and encourage each other. I don't know how to do this obviously, but I will not give up yet. My H is too good of a man to have a W that just walks away. I need to be much more than that. Blessings onlywords. You will be in MY prayers.
Pam

bump.

Turtlehead - Thanks!

NCWalker & RunawayPot - also, thanks.

NCW: You said a lot of what I was feeling. But let me give a little more background. Last night started fine, onlywords (ow) went to bed, I stayed up, read a little, watched a little tv and then headed for bed.

My schedule has been a little messed up since surgery, in that I've been sleeping in longer in the AM. Well, when I got to bed around 11:15-11:30, I couldn't sleep. Rather than getting up and coming back downstairs to read, I just laid there...thinking. And it's not like things have been bad. In fact, they have been pretty good (except for the lack of SF). ow got a new business venture off the ground yesterday and some other things were 'cleaned' up. But I think it's those demons, or more specifically Satan invading my thoughts, bringing things up that were resolved or at least partially. So basically, now I'm thinking things to death.

One 'tool' that I used to be able to use to help myself get to sleep, no longer works for me. I'm talking about pleasuring myself. Since the A came to light, I have absolutely no desire (and when I do) I get no pleasure from self pleasure. Hence, I'm unable to have a quick O and then just fall asleep.

Well, after laying in bed til about 1:20, I came downstairs, composed an email, sent it to onlywords and went back to bed around 2:00. Well, anyhow, before I came down, I had rubbed her back a little, but she didn't want sex so I didn't push it, couple of times she was snoring so I made a few comments (to slightly wake her out of the snore). Well, when I went back to bed, she started talking in her sleep so I talked back to her. Something woke her up and she went downstairs. I'm sure it was that I had been 'interupting' her sleep previously and now she was just awake. This was probably around 2:30 - 3:00. These were all love busters, I'm sure, especially the email.

Well, I heard her log onto the pc, do a little typing as I was sitting at the top of the stairs. When I figured she had read my email, I came down.

I'm not sure now why I had to go into all this detail to make this point, but we got to talking and it kind of seems like our roles our now reversed. I'm all needy and she's getting the work done. So I can see where she coming from with what we've all gone through.

Also, I think we need to just get out and do something fun. I know we haven't really done that. We've done a couple of things with the kids, but nothing for ourselves. And of course, I'm such a lousey person to have fun with anymore I need to refigure it out.

Also, Runawaypot, you mentioned that it might help you both to email some things with onlywords. I have no problem with that, it in fact may be quite helpful.

Also, you had said I might want to post a topic to NCW about this. I thought about it, but never did. I wasn't sure what to say, but if he would like to email me, I have no problems with that either.

Anyway, thanks to all for your input.

<small>[ June 26, 2004, 09:11 PM: Message edited by: Recovering H ]</small>

NCWalker
I feel that was well said. I'm in a very similar situation as you. Alothough the W continues A (her boss). LB Deposits are hard to give when WW has so many mixed feelings. You want to make a BIG LB deposit and it just doesn't happen. Then the demons come out. (I can relate the same thing happens to me). I agree the little LB deposits are the best way. Our W's (or at least mine)see how hard we are trying and if we do to much too fast I think it just (tightens the knot) so to speak. My W feels bad for what she has done and guilty and that is a tremendous weight on her. If we do too much too fast it makes that guilt worse. Thus we end up LBing and don't even notice it. Stop LBing, small deposits and a LOT of love. Just my 2cents. Brad

Turtlehead,
Thanks for starting a new thread for me, adn for your input.
To NCWalker and RAP,
I like your analogy of the tangled up spaghetti! There is so much going on inside me and it's very hard to sort out, and very overwhelming at times. I can't do too much too fast, and Recovering H wants it fixed yesterday. I totally understand that, and I wish it would be fixed, too....but it takes time...lots of it. The situation we find ourselves in didn't happen overnight, so resolving it won't go away overnight. And yes, like RAP said, there are things I think and feel that I don't want to admit to....things that I'm afraid to say because it would sound like I don't WANT to work things out, and that just isn't true. I guess the bottom line is that I know I am doing the right thing by staying and trying to work things out, but at this point my HEART isn't totally in it. That makes it a lot harder. See, just saying that, I'm afraid it will hurt my husband's feelings and he'll think I don't love him! I suspect that the problem is ME....how I shut myself off from him first to keep from feeling hurt any more, then to be able to actually have an affair and keep it going. I used to know what I wanted and that I wanted those things to come from my husband, but now I don't know where that went. He tries to give me Love Bank Deposits, and while I appreciate them, sometimes they just annoy me. I know that hurts him. I hate that. I understand the love-busting...I try not to hold it against him...I try to just ride it out because I know he has his bad days too.
Feelings are a funny thing....they come and go. Sometimes I feel cuddly and loving, other times I want to be alone. Of course, he can't predict when that will be, and he doesn't always understand why, and he feels so insecure that even the slightest rejection to his attempts feel like a big sledgehammer on his head. I hate that too. And as NCWalker said, those up and down times we each have don't often coincide.
I feel like I'm rambling here.
I do feel so confused about EVERYTHING...but I want Recovering H to know that doesn't mean I'm going to walk away. And when it seems that I'm avoiding working on things, please understand that I just need a damn break from it all...I don't want a dark cloud following me around all the time....all that would do is paralyze me.

Thanks again for all your input....from everyone.

Juliana

<small>[ June 26, 2004, 05:28 PM: Message edited by: onlywords ]</small>

Hi onlywords and RecoveringH,

We have your emails so you can take them off now. Hate to leave them out here.

Onlywords,

Not to sound dramatic, but you sound almost like my twin.

And yes, like RAP said, there are things I think and feel that I don't want to admit to....things that I'm afraid to say because it would sound like I don't WANT to work things out, and that just isn't true. I guess the bottom line is that I know I am doing the right thing by staying and trying to work things out, but at this point my HEART isn't totally in it. That makes it a lot harder. See, just saying that, I'm afraid it will hurt my husband's feelings and he'll think I don't love him!

I have thought these exact thoughts. I tend to keep it to myself too, because I feel so horrible about it, and I don’t want my H to think I don’t want to make this work. We had an argument last night. First argument in a little while. He put a book in front of me and said, “This is what we are doing right now.” I was the one upset this time when we argued. I was a little out of line. I was tired of being corrected(or so I felt). When he put that book under my nose, I thought I would blow. I know that is horrible. The pressure of “fix it now” makes me run screaming the other direction. I know it is not fair, but I am not there yet. It annoys me and then I feel guilty about that too. I know you care about RH. I know I care about NCWalker. I put him aside to have the A to “get lost” from myself and life. I allowed my heart to harden. I am not happy about that. I want to stay and have that rock inside me soften. I don’t know how long it will take, but like you, I do not plan on giving up. I don’t know if he can believe that because of how I feel now.

I do feel so confused about EVERYTHING...but I want Recovering H to know that doesn't mean I'm going to walk away. And when it seems that I'm avoiding working on things, please understand that I just need a damn break from it all...I don't want a dark cloud following me around all the time....all that would do is paralyze me.

You said it for me. I hate the way it sounds, but that’s exactly it. I want to scream “Leave me alone. I am here. I am not with OM. Please give me time!” I know how selfish that sounds. It sounds horrible. But it is how I react. I recoil when I feel forced to connect right now. I know it is me and not H.

Thanks for your input. I will email you sometime when kids are worn out and resting! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Have a blessed weekend,

Pam

PS. I am hoping your posts will encourage my H. Maybe mine will encourage yours.

Blessings.

Pam, Juliana, you are exactly where H and I were about 3 or 4 months ago.

He used to say to our MC I don't want Jenny to still feel like this about the "creep". I haven't got the time to wait for her to be herself again.

She said that there was nothing he COULD do but wait and that it was worth it to wait.

I know exactly what you mean about the LBank. I wasn't ready to have it filled but he just kept on persevering. Sometimes the angry outbursts were also needed and they actually helped us move forwards in lots of ways. Sometimes he'd just look at me and sort of hiss "you're thinking about him again aren't you. there's only so much I can take." It would end in a fight and floods of tears but at least we were in "conflict" and not "indifference."

Jenny

Thanks for the input kiwi.

It can just be so scary where we are right now. It is good to see what it can be like 3 to 4 months down the road. Right now, I get concerned H will not be able to wait that long.

Thanks for the input.
Pam

Thanks KiwiJ.

RAP/NCW - I don't know about you two, but I for one have been a big conflict avoider in our marriage. We talked a little bit about this in one of our early MC sessions. And we both said that it felt like we both lost when we got into arguments. The counselor said that was not good. (I know that I've watched tv in the past and saw things where people got to have makeup sex and that is something we've scarcely ever experienced.)

Anyway, I've noticed 3 times recently where I "instigated" a "fight" or argument. The first time was intentional, because she wasn't talking and I kept digging trying to get something out of her, but the last two times, while not technically a fight, I've done something stupid trying to push us forward. Hopefully, I'm over that (because neither instance led to make up sex), but ultimately we've come out a little further ahead (but probably at the expense of my love bank with onlywords).

Thanks again to all here and have a great weekend!

RH,

Literally ROFL with RAP. RAP and I aren't really what you would call "conflict avoiders." I would say some of our conflicts have made progress with our M and some have not. If we avoid a conflict, it is really an extreme act of will on one of our parts. We are learning to fight fair.

Guess the final answer is as long as your learning and making steps forward it is OK.

NCW

OH WOW. The pain from both perspectives. What a thread.

For the ladies. I'm another bh here. My wife moved out to live with the OM. She came home 3 months later. Of course, it was her own choice to come home, but, I had given her the 'privacy' she wanted, and had told her I would leave her alone for three months. She knew, the next day, I would have been knocking on her apartment door, and probably have killed OM. So, her coming home was a violation of her own emotions, even though she did it on her own and didn't want to. We have actually discussed that several times, and I stand firm on the aspect of ultimately, she didn't violate her emotions and that her ultimate decision and choice was to be at home with me, and that is what she did. Although she expereience pain by choosing this path, it was the path she wanted most, because it was what she decided upon when she could have went either way. I hope that when you are feeeling unsure of your decisions, maybe that can cut through some of the haze and make sense. At some level, even going back through all the pre-A pain, you still choose to be with your H post-A. And, you choose that of your own accord. Something more powerful than the allure of the OM pulled you to your husband. Be thankful for that power.

FOr the men. I'm at 7.5 months. Wife was gone from me for almost 4 motnhs total. She withheld from me in the bedroom for 2.5 weeks before we were finally together. I was in agony at that point. I know all about sex drive, I have told wife point blank, 2-3 times a day is half of what I desire...she is compromising at about twice per week... of course, for me, that isn't even close. But, it is growing. I know that somewhere in our heads that is all our fws did with the OM, f.f.f.f.f. day and night, non stop. Some part of this enormous sex drive is their faults, I know it...I wasn't this bad pre-A, so, I pretty much know this is more than just a suspicion. I believe it's laying some claim to our wives again.

Somthing of note, try very hard to not make her feel like a prostitute right now. I think that where they are mentally right now, that since they have no desire to sexually engage with their H's, to do so makes them feel like who..'s. Another thing...sleep is sooooo very important right now, a rested mind can begin to think logically through things, DON'T wake them up. Especially for sex.

I struggled precisely with the sex though...any doubts, just search on the older posts by me. Even still, a monster issue is the sex. It seems so easy for us guys, just do it...but those darn ladies, they just can't see it that way. Anyways, for both of you couples, endure. Endure , endure.

You can make it to the other side. I saw something about cussing at the spouse in this thread...don't. Not LB'ing is not a deposit. It jsut isn't a withdrawl. Deposits can be made, even when it seems they aren't taking them. Love her to death. Really. When you die, and God looks down on you and says...Son, well done, you loved your wife so much she left you! Do you really think He's gonna say that? Don't control her, don't smother her, just love her. She hopefully is showing you how. Look for what she does to show you love...how is she trying to make deposits for you, often, that is what they are wanting.

Hey Rook, you probably don't even remember me but I just wanted to say Hi. I wondered where you'd gone.

Glad you're doing well.

Jenny

<small>[ June 27, 2004, 03:43 AM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

Rook,

Thank you SO much for your post....I REALLY, REALLY, REALLY like the advice you gave to our BS's...I think you pretty much hit the nail on the head! (For me, anyway!) Also, what you said about doubting our decisions on an emotional level....I hadn't thought of it quite that way, so it helped a lot to hear how you said it. I am in this for the long haul, but there are definitely times when I just am not sure the pain and work will be worth it. Some days I wonder if the darkness will ever go away and we'll feel normal again. Just reading about how far you have come, as well as KiwiJ....I now believe there is light at the end of the tunnel. I still don't SEE it, but I BELIEVE in it!

Thanks so much....more than you'll ever know, you have helped! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Onlywords

Hi onlywords, kiwiJ, and all others <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ,

Just a note to say HI. It is good to see a light at the end of the tunnel. It is the biggest boost I get when I come here...hearing from those who are a little farther down the road than I am.

Have a great Sunday!
Pam

Folks,

I was sitting here reading this thread, and thinking how often I have read these words on this site. I am guessing but in the last 5 years probably about 70,000 times or more. I have over 7000 posts and I read at least 10 times as many threads as I reply to. I do have to make a living. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

My point is that nothing any of you are feeling is unique, and every feeling you have that is negative can be overcome as it has many many times before.

Further it is great that both spouses are posting in this particular case. I think it will help a lot in the long run. However, if you go back and reread the threads, count how many times the discussion is about "I". When it is about the spouse it is something like: "I know he is hurting but..." which means you don't know he is hurting, and you are distancing yourself from that pain.

If I could offer ANY of you one piece of advice, do something nice/kind for your spouse once a day. When your spouse does this, THANK them. I mean look them in the eye and THANK them, none of the "yes but..." thinking.

This is very hard stuff, and it takes time and patience to get through, and thus the toll is very high on all parties. The big time failure will occur when one of the partners runs out of gas, and the other is unwilling to do something like simply "Thank" them for their efforts.

"I want to work on it, but I need my space..." hurts. Pure and simple it hurts,and yes a single LB can cost a lot of deposits, BUT... a single deposit, a single "atta boy", a single "Thanks" can lift the soul. Do it, do it every day, and you all will have the strength to get through this, heal, and rebuild a better marriage.

To the WS's here, you may have questioned your spouses love and commitment, you can no longer do that. Thank them for it.

To the BS's here, you may question your spouses decisions, but they did decide to be here. Thank them for it.

Everyday, do something from your heart for your spouse, no matter how little, just a kiss, a Thank YOU, a touch, a squeeze, somehow some way, THANK THEM for trying.

It is what works, and has always worked. You all may not realize this but Harley's focus on the LB's, the plans, everything is allow you all to renormalize the marriage, to take a second look at not only what failed, but what is good, and to let time and a general goodness of the soul prevail.

You all have the goodness of the soul, use it. Grow from this, don't huddle in the pain.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL