Thank you WoF. This happened so quickly, my head is spinning. I had plans for today. Last summer we got an antique high chair for the sparrow's best friend, who has a small baby. I've been talking on the phone with this friend, who is supportive and has not been speaking with the sparrow, who she believes has lost her marbles. The other day I left her a message which she did not return. This morning I left another one saying I wanted to bring her the high chair. I went to go get it and load it in my car, and wouldn't you know, it's gone. First my SIL went dark on me, now the sparrow has apparently reached out to her friend, who is doing the same. The other day, MIL, who has been very supportive, didn't exactly tell me not to call anymore, but she said this is all too upsetting for her and she can't be "in the middle". All the sparrow's family and friends that have supported me are disappearing. I was feeling good for one measly night, and now it's gone. This doesn't get easier, does it?

GC

Okay, the plot thickens. OM has some kind of online forum he posts to, and his W has been reading his entries - he does not seem to know she is aware. Here's what she told me in an email just now about his posts:

"he said to a friend of his who is coming back to this country in july or aug. 'i am perched on a chair and need help getting off'. he also said 'i am in the middle of a root canal and am starting to throw rocks at the line again'. i dont fully understand what he means, but have a couple of speculations...i get the feeling and so do another couple of people that something is going on. something different than what has been going on anyway...dont know what though."

Listen to him cry and moan with such flowery language. What in the world is happening??? God almighty, will this never end?

GC

no - it doesn't get easier.
Try not to read too much into lack of response from Sparrows friend - or from MIL. Again, things are not always what they seem.
I think that is the hardest part - the feeling that people have gone "over to her side". But it isn't necesarily so. If you continue to be the good guy, you will come out ahead.
This friend of sparrows could be avoiding both of you at this point. Hard saying. Or - could be that she sees a break in sparrows armor, but doesn't want to share that with you yet, so she is avoiding you. Know way of knowing for sure. I don't want to build false hope - I jsut want to show you the possibilty taht something else entirely different is going on here.
As for MIL. I am sure she still supports you, but, as a mom, you have to try to support your child. It has to be a terrible struggle for her right now. She wants to support her daughter, but how can she? My MIL (now ex MIL) used to say she had to be "neutral". It hurt me terribly. She and I went on several trips together. I supported her more than the rest of her family did. But he was her son. I am a mom, I have to try to understand that. Does she have regrets now? Probably. (you may have noticed in my signature line that I am D now)
Today will be bad for you. And tonight will be worse. But morning will come, and things will look better again.
I remember one time when Ex did show up to get some stuff while I was there. I did not cry, or LB, I just asked what he was going to take, and as he left, I said "I hope some day you will decide that you would be happy living here again." Thats all. Then I walked away. I know it had an impact on him. He couldn't even look at me when he left.
Have you read the LostVa story yet? I bumped it up a while ago. Great inspiration. you need to read it. Let me know if you need me to look for it again.
Basically - her WH moved out, and was living with the OW. OW had a child that WH was actually planning to adopt - had even seen an attorney about that. WH said mean awful things to LostVa "I am never coming back, get over it" "I did not know what true happiness was until I found OW" etc. During that time LostVa did maintain contact with MIL, but she also said that MIL was also supporting her son - becuase she was afraid she would never see him again if she didn't support him. So her son would bring OW over for visits. I am sure that tore Lostva apart - the thought that she had been replaced so easily. It is a great story to read.
In fact - 3 days before he came home he actually send Lostva a letter and said "I will be filing for D it is time to get this over with" and then, 3 days later, he stopped by for a visit and asked if he could come home. 3 days later.
I do not want to build false hopes BUT I think it is important to have hope. Without it, you can easily give up, and say "forget it, I am going to file myself and get this over". Without hope, you begin to hate.
One last thing I will add for now - I did like your email respnse to her - it was short and to the point. With one exception - you told her she could stop by anytime Sunday, you would likely be there. Try to set some boundaries. "I will be home between 2-4, please stop by then."
You are not a doormat. She does not get to have OM, and then stop by "anytime" she wants to. I know you want to be nice - but you also need to show her that you have a life and she needs to respect that. It will also help you out becuase right now you are planning to spend all day sitting around the house waiting for her to show.
Hang in there friend.
You will get through this. You will come out the other side. And you will be stronger. (I hated it when people said that crap to me!!!)

I agree with WoF. It will kill to you come back after she has been and gone. I see that you have decided to stay. Good don't make it easy on her to come get her stuff.

As for what OM says in his crypted little message - WHAT is that? He sounds like a total nut case. I can't imagine what they mean. Glad you have some speculations.

Whatever you want - you will get in the end. You know that don't you? It is a universal truth, but you have to really want it and be willing to walk the walk.

Hang in there.

the man is a freak. Sorry - just my opinion.
Let her have her stuff on Sunday. She really needs to jump into the deep end of this pool and see how good she had it before with you.
Throwing stones at the line? What the hell is that supposed to menan? And what does it have to do with a root canal?
Doesn't sound like a man who will be able to meet all her needs. Sounds more like a man who wants to sit in his chair waiting for everyone else to meet His needs.
This whole weekend will be huge for you. Much prayer for you.
I may not be able to get online this weekend - I am having company <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> but will continue to check in with you today.

I didn't send the original email, so I modified it and said I'd rather be home when she comes, and asked if a window from 12-4 would be okay.

I think a root canal is a D. The rest, I have no idea. Blech. Root canal. I betcha I've got some in my future now that I've mustered the courage to go see a dentist.

Yes he is a nutcase. A hopeless romantic whose flowery prose soaks us all down like a loose firehose. Oooh bingo, more lyrics - I'm going to record several songs and maybe give the CD to the sparrow on our 10th anniversary next month, or something.

GC

Uh oh. I think I just did an LB. She sent this response to my email:

---

Hi [GC],

The timing is fine for Sunday. However, I was planning on asking [OM] to help me which is why I think it would better for now if you're not there. I won't take anything of yours. I can be there at a more specific time if that helps.

Thanks,
[sparrow]

---

and I responded:

---

[sparrow],

I'm very sorry about this, but [OM] is not coming into my house without walking over my dead body.

[GC]

---

Is this bad???

GC

No it's not bad! Do not ever let her bring the scum to your house! Promise me! That would be a form of acceptance of her new life IMO. There were things that I let my WW do in the beginning like that and she just kept trying to push further and walk all over me. In the beginning she refused to have me help her. now she has agreed for him not to even be blocks away from the house. I stood up to her crap and she respects me more for it. Whether the D goes all the way or not she will have respect for me as a man. You did the right thing and could not be handling all of this any better. Good work. Be cool, but stand up for yourself when she has ridiculous requests or statements.

I promise, Juke. I might have to change the locks to prevent it at this point. I think she's pretty steamed. The emails have been flying.

She asked, "Who else will be there besides you?"

I replied, "Probably nobody but me."

She replied, "This arrangement makes me feel paranoid and uncomfortable, especially the 'probably' part. I don't think I'll be coming over this weekend after all."

I said, "[sparrow], you know you can trust me. I can assure you that I'll be the only one here
if you decide to come on Sunday. If you want to, please tell me what you're concerned
about."

She must think I've got some kind of intervention planned or something. It's outrageous! To think I would be okay with that guy strolling into my house.

GC

Thanks. You are doing the right thing. It's funny how you mention her lack of trust for you. My WW has been the same way and was surprised when I had lack of trust for OM being in our house? He steals my wife and I am expected to trust him not to steal anything else? Especially after all of her erratic, insane behavior like bringing him to our church. It just shows that our WW's are not themselves right now. Neither one of them would be behaving this way under normal circumstances. It is like they have been infected by an alien and that alien is the OP. All I want is for her to get a reality check and it is only a matter of time. You were able to get a small glimpse of your wife's true self and she is fighting the good in herself as hard as she can right now to justify her actions. I did get a small glimpse with my WW a couple weeks ago (not as impressive as yours BTW) but she went right back to being cold after that. Evertime I have had a small amount of hope it has been crushed within days.

Gray- Sorry if I sound negative today. Don't give up hope if u want her back. Your situation sounds more promising than mine.

Do you get the feeling this guy is controlling her?

Just a thought.

Maybe he is scared to let her be alone with you b/c he knows she isn't at all sure about moving etc.

You are doing well. Firm , but kind.

Bingo!
I think Shul hit the nail on the head. OM doesn't want to let her out of his sight. There is no way in hel that man should be coming into your house. Stand strong! If you do eventually end up changing the locks, jsut tell her "I did not want to keep you out, but I simply can not have that man coming into my home. this is my sancutary, my one safe place. The thought of OM coming in is just too painful. I will hlep you to carry your possesions out of the house, but I simply can not allow him to come into my home".
forgive me for sharing yet another example from my own horrible experience (by the way - today is my 1 year D Day anniversary. he left a year ago today)
After WH had been gone about 2 weeks, and I still had not seen the OW, I had a day where I came home from work early. We were having a party for younger sons baseball team (planned before D Day) and I wanted to get ready. I was actually starting to feel good about myself again. I wanted to shower - put on my cutest shorts and tank top, wear makeup, you get the idea.
As I pulled into my own driveway I saw WH's truck. Yeah! I thought. he wants to talk!
I get out, and walk to the front of the house, and guess who is standing there? You guessed it. That 2 bit, thiefing whore who had convinced my H that he should abandon his wife and children. I started to scream. WH came running out of the house saying "she just wanted to help me" she starts running to get into the truck (MY truck - the one I helped him buy - and sitting in MY seat!)
WH kept saying "I didn't know you were coming home early, you should have called ahead (I have to call my own house to announce my arrival?) I told him that she should not have been there - no matter what. He drove off with a quick "Its my house too". My boys were in the house the whole time. Terrified.
Later he said "She really feels bad about what happened" as if that was supposed to make everything ok.
Several weeks later a co-worker of his called to see how I was doing. I started to relay the above story to her, and she said she had all ready heard it from WH. She said that when he told her this story she personally read him the riot act for bringing OW to my house, and he agreed that it was stupid and he should not have done it.
But he never told me it was stupid. he only told me that she was "a part of his life now, and therefore would be with him wherever he went". So, here again, your wife is acting out, trying to make everyone accept this relationship. She won't admit to you that she sometimes says things or does things that she later regrets but I KNOW she is having regrets. The more she acts out - emails - gets mad - the more I am convinced that she is having regrets. She is trying to convince herself.
A pastor told me something once that has proven to be very true. I don't remember the exact quote but it is something like this:
Love waits for itself - lust runs to itself.
True, mature, life long love is able to say "I love you enough to wait for you - go take care of your old business. I will be here for you.
Lust says- I can not let you out of my sight for 5 minutes becuase you may change your mind.
Where does your wife and her OM fall in all this?
So if she comes over Sunday to get her stuff, fine. If not, her loss.
You are still doing a good job.

Am I in some new "reality" TV show or something? Where are the hidden cameras? This can't be for real.

The passive, sweet, artistic nature of OM that I've heard so much about (I know, he's boinking my wife and ditching his own child and pregnant wife) suggests he wouldn't be sinister enough to be controlling my wife. The two of them seem to just be stupidly blundering along. But maybe in a less-than-conscious sense that is what's happening. I don't know.

GC

graycloud - This is almost too funny. Sorry I know you are hurting. But she does not feel comfortable picking up stuff with her husband there, but you should feel comfortable with OM coming into your home? This is just too much.

Believer,

Her comment about being "paranoid and uncomfortable" is revealing.

Last night, alone with me, her defenses were down. I was kind and generous. Her feelings of guilt and confustion surfaced.

Today, she is paranoid about being alone with me. I imagine her describing our meeting to OM, and the two of them spinning it somehow into me being manipulative and untrustworthy, in some sinister way planting seeds of doubt in her mind.

As long as they stay close together, they can believe this alternate reality they've created. Separate them for a while, and they begin to see clearly.

Hopefully, sooner or later the good part inside her that's screaming to be rescued will become too loud to ignore.

GC

GC

Good job on placing that boundary. You can be firm without being disrespectful.

I shake my head reading your posts; not that I am entertained by this tragedy, but because of the similarities in the sparrows actions and my and the others WWs. The guilt manifests itself as anger and anger always feels justified, it's the very essence of the emotion.

I wish I had found the support this forum has to offer earlier in my situation. I hope it is helping you.

I think you may be right in thinking this house of cards has to collapse for her. So much, so fast, I for one predict a meltdown. I will pray the only peace she finds is in God and come to her senses.

I'm glad my misery is so entertaining! Just kidding. I'm stuck guarding my house tonight. My friend who was going to come and drink my beer (none for me, dang it) is rescuing another friend from heartbreak and can't make it. He's a real samaritan.

Another thing happened this week. I just spoke with MIL, and she has told the sparrow's grandmother what's going on. This is the grandmother whose husband cheated on her and left her to raise her two boys, the sparrow's deceased father and uncle, on her own. She never remarried because her faith did not permit it. Apparently she is most displeased. She told MIL that it brought back all the memories of what happened to her.

Grandma might just tear the sparrow a new one.

GC

I agree with Binder that this is happening too fast and it will crash in the same way. It all seems very childish.

For some reason I feel a bit alarmed by this man. I am thinking mentally ill- personality disorder.
Is he an abuser?
I am curious to know what his wife says. What is she like?

Go granny go!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You're doing just fine, GC. Don't try to read in to what sparrow is thinking - she's insane right now.

Hubby and I were reading your post together - and he commented "that's just like it was with us". All our 'friends' pretty much disappeared during our dark time as well.

It makes people uncomfortable - so I guess they just kind of bow out. We mended a lot of bridges after we worked everything out - but some friendships have never been the same. However - we've made quite a few new ones too.

Hang in there - this is all pretty typical.