I have some questions I'd like to ask any FWWs out there who've come through the confusion and the fog of A and aftermath. I don't know if what you'd call where my M is right now > We are definitely in No Contact, but W is still very confused and in a fog. She seems convinced that our M can't really recover and I "would be better off with someone better." She believes that she is a bad person and that I need to move on. Lots of guilt and shame, and thinking that if she gave into would destroy our M forever. I stop short of saying that we are in recovery. The reason is that she is not really helping out in putting things together again. The things we have done together she shows a lot of ambivilence and cold exterior. She tolerates us working on the relationship.

She has shut me off so hard that I've mentioned me leaving with the kids. I feel so empty inside. She shows no love or affection towards me. She said it all goes back to my LB over the years and she says that she doesn't want to fight anymore. She's ready to give up, I think. She says she loves me, but I really don't know anymore.

The other day she really opened up to me. We were laying on the bed and she told me about how guilty she felt and the shame she felt. She cried and held me.... I thought I had died and gone to heaven. It was the intimacy I was looking for for a a long time. But, then the next day, she shut down tighter than even before. She later told me that she felt like there were too many cards out on the table for her liking. She said that she didn't want to put too much out there in case I were to go on the offensive with her. She won't let the past go. I've told her that I've changed and I have, but she seems like she's punishing me in the now, for something I did while I was ignorant of how I was behaving.

I wish like everything that some FWW that has gone through all this fog and confusion could post to my wife and speak to that in her. That would make my day! If anyone would fit that bill and would be interested in doing that please contact me at:
floridarev@yahoo.com. I think she would listen to someone whose gone through all this before in their own lives.

Out!

Well, RWS, I certainly fit all the criteria.

I wouldn't want to intrude on your w though. Has she said she would talk to someone?

Jenny

If you don't mind, would you tell me about your story? How you came out of the fog and so on; it would be helpful to me to hear it.

And, yes, I believe she would talk to someone via the board or email.

Thanks

I've only just posted this on "Moving Forward."

"A with old HS b/f. A lasted 18 months and I was totally, absolutely, completely obsessed with him.

A ended because he wouldn't leave his w (and 30 year marriage) so I had no choice but to try to make my (30 year) M work. H didn't know about the A so I began withdrawal on my own. Withdrawal consisted of drinking myself into a stupor and going to bed at 8.00pm.

H found out and I was still totally in withdrawal. I said things like "if he comes back for me I'm going to him." etc etc

Went to MC which helped a great deal. She was very good and very pro marriage.

Came on to MB in February this year (can't believe its so short a time ago) and everything began to turn around for me thanks to the wonderful people here."

That's basically it. I was absolutely determined that I was going to get back the marriage I had before and that I was going to love my H more than I ever had before. I read and read and read. I talked and talked to the people here. JL (Just Learning) can probably take full credit for saving my M although he's been very kind and said that H and I can take full credit for saving our M. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Does any of that help?

Jenny

yes it does. I just hope my FWW can do what you did. You sound like a very strong person. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You know I never thought I was strong but maybe I am. My late dad brought us up to always have "guts" which I guess is the same as "true grit". If you make a mistake you darn well fix it and learn from it.

I was thinking that JL is probably the best person to talk to your w. Have you come across him on the board? Neither WS nor BS, just a very wise and clever man.

Jenny

Hi RWS,

I'm not a FWWs, but wanted to give you my perspective as a male BS on what you've posted...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She has shut me off so hard that I've mentioned me leaving with the kids. I feel so empty inside. She shows no love or affection towards me. She said it all goes back to my LB over the years and she says that she doesn't want to fight anymore. She's ready to give up, I think. She says she loves me, but I really don't know anymore. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It's hard for us BS to realize that our WS is hurting just as much as we are, but in a different way... Once you realize this fact and start focusing on ways that YOU can help ease her pain, I think you'll see that your W will open up more and more...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But, then the next day, she shut down tighter than even before. She later told me that she felt like there were too many cards out on the table for her liking. She said that she didn't want to put too much out there in case I were to go on the offensive with her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Again, it's going to take lots of consistant actions from you to SHOW your W that you aren't just going through the motions, and that you've truly changed your LB ways of the past... Doesn't really seem "fair", but if you continue to SHOW your W that you are working on changing your ways of the past, she'll eventually start opening up and trusting you more.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She won't let the past go. I've told her that I've changed and I have, but she seems like she's punishing me in the now, for something I did while I was ignorant of how I was behaving. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She will have to "let go of the past", just as you will have to eventually "let go" of her A... It will take time for her to learn to trust you again. Unfortunately, just telling her that you've changed won't do it... Keep looking for ways to SHOW her that you're working on yourself and changing your past behavior...

This is a really hard time, right now... The hardest part for me was realizing that I'd hurt my W and that I needed to work on ME, before we could even start working on rebuilding our M... Once I finally "got it", my W started opening up and we really started rebuilding our M.

The fact that your W is willing to stay in the M is great... just know that you're going to have MANY ups and downs... If you keep your eye on the final goal of rebuilding your M, then these little setbacks will take on a different perspective...

Hope this helps...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Hi RWS!

I'm a FWW and I am currently posting a lot on the Moving Forward thread.

The fog is going to last a while. For me, no contact was established in April but I still have those foggy moments. They come and go but I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I can't keep my emotions in - I wear them on my sleeve so it's easy for me to talk to my husband, especially because he has never once belittled me or made me feel bad about what happened. I can't really give you an answer as to how to get your wife to open up, she's just going to have to do that on her own I think.

Does your wife have anyone to talk to? Is she willing to come to this board? Show her the Moving Forward thread and you will see there are quite a few of us in the same boat as she is. Maybe she would feel comfortable enough to post? Hope so, we can all encourage each other.

Chack (carol)

Rebuilding,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It's hard for us BS to realize that our WS is hurting just as much as we are, but in a different way... Once you realize this fact and start focusing on ways that YOU can help ease her pain, I think you'll see that your W will open up more and more...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The day my H said that to me I knew I loved him more than anything.

I know it sounds selfish of me that I needed to hear that but I tell you any man who can say that is heading ALL THE RIGHT WAY to the recovery of his M.

It said to me that he understood me and that he loved me.

I should add that in the couple of months leading up to him saying that I had heard various versions of "I don't care what you feel about him - get over it." Our wonderful MC taught us that we were both in pain but from different sides of the fence.


Jenny

<small>[ June 27, 2004, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: KiwiJ ]</small>

RWS: I've posted to you before. I was happy to see the break through, but as I said it is quite the roller coaster you have coming. And I don't say that to be mean, that's just the way it is for 99% of the people on here.

I don't know if you had the chance to read my story? But it's in my tagline below. I asked my W (onlywords) to come on this board probably just over 2 months ago. She came and lurked awhile, made a few snide remarks and kind of left it at that. Well, it seems about a month ago she was reading again when she read something I wrote and she had to post. Two posts in, I could tell it was her and she's been here off and on ever since.

Most of what she has gotten out of the board has only come recently. Today was a good day for her on the Moving Forward Thread. See link: Moving Forward

Anyway, invite your W to join us here. I've seen other couples and read their story from 2-3 years ago that didn't think they would make it and have. It's really awesome! Now after you invite her, you may have to be patient to get her to come around. You may have to print out some of the threads for her to read on "her own time." You see onlywords was too proud to come on here at first (at least it seemed that way to me), but she did. She still gets whacked with an occasional 2x4 and she wants to leave, but she's learning and I can see the growth in her and in us. Because ultimately, this board has provided another avenue of communication for us that we didn't previously have. Now we talk about threads and other people AND how it relates to us OR how we're different. Or whatever. It's truly an amazing place and the love that is shared between posters is amazing (the kind of love that is shared by Christians wanting to help other Christians or even just others).

One thing you could use to try and entice her here is the following: Before you give up on us, why don't you try the Marriage Builders message board. Don't you want to be able to look back 5, 10 years or whatever from now knowing that you gave everything you could to try and save our marriage? Or would you rather just end it now and possibly look back with regrets. This will take some guts on your part, because she could reject you. But I think you have what it takes and you'll be able to pull it off AND save your marriage in the process. Hang in there buddy!

Good luck and God Bless!

P.S. You've had a lot of good posts here. Go ahead and printout this thread and give to your W and ask her to read it. Go for it!

RIF and Kiwi, that business about "our wayward spouse is hurting just as much as we are, but in a different way" did so much for me tonight.

Now, my sparrow may not be herself, and she may be addicted and not entirely sane, but the conflict between not wanting to give things up and cause pain, and feeling she has to, and the fear that grips her as she watches her bridges burn - all that is, I'm sure, very painful to her even in her fog. She showed me that when we met last week. And that's what I must remember when I see her. It's not fair that I have to do all the giving, but right now if I want to save my marriage, that's what I have to do.

When I'm tempted to be angry and judge her, snap at her or try to show off how I'm hurting, I just remember that these are selfish temptations. Entirely justified, but still selfish. And if I want to show her I truly love her, I will give up these selfish things when I see her. That doesn't mean not having boundaries or tolerating abuse. It just means acknowledging that she is in pain, even if she's being a jerk, and trying to be there to lessen this pain however I can.

Thanks again for that,

GC

GC, I've been following your story. I don't want to give you false hope either but the sparrow looks like she's wavering to me.

And, DEFINITELY, the boundaries have to be there and you should not tolerate abuse of any sort.

I think you should get the Border Terrier, too. They are great little dogs. Full of personality.

Jenny

well it's 12:34 and it's officially my birthday. Some birthday present, W is in bed, in the fog, not knowing if the M is even worth fighting for and I'm on this board. Happy Birthday! I'm not doing too good a job lately. I've been noticing depression sneaking in on me. And, I feel no love whatsoever from her anymore. It feels like it did right after dday. I would have rather lost my legs in an accident as this crap happen. The pain would've been so much less and even learning to cope would've been easier.

RWS,

Happy birthday! It's 10:30 am on this side of the world...

Hey, hang in there... I completely understand the feelings you're having right now... I asked the same questions myself...

Remember, keep the long range goal in sight... and the short range stuff will eventually work itself out. Your goal is a better M... to get there, you have to go THROUGH all of this crap... you can't go around it... I tried going around all of the hard issues, and they just came back... it's hard work, but you can do it...

Semper Fi,
RIF90

Thanks for posting. you've replied on several of my posts. You sound like you've been through it. I am leaning on my wife for things she can't give me right now, I'm just going to have to be the strong one. I used to think I was so strong until this happened. I'm not to strong after all. I've really obsessed over everything today with her, to the point of LB I'm sure. She frustrated with me for asking things that she can't answer. I know better than that, dern it, but I'm just so dog gone needy right now. I sound like some stupid Oprah Winfrey, Dr. Phil show. God, I hate that.

I'm going to have to move forward strongly and pray hard. You hang in there too buddy!

God Bless

Hi RWS,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I used to think I was so strong until this happened. I'm not to strong after all. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Took me a while to realize this myself... but Phillipians 4:13 helps...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> She frustrated with me for asking things that she can't answer. I know better than that, dern it, but I'm just so dog gone needy right now. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I "found out" about my W's other A's 10 years after they ended... I had so many questions, and all I got was "I don't remember..." or "I don't know..." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> VERY frustrating for me... When we were first starting out with rebuilding our M, the "I don't know" answers just about killed me... I just HAD to know all the gory details and would grill my wife over and over to see if there was ANY change to her "story"... Looking back at that time, I realize that my W really DIDN'T know the answers to many of my questions. (I can barely remember what I had for dinner last night, and I sure can't remember exact details of things that happend in my life ten years ago!)

When you're going through the pain and hurt, it's so hard to keep focused on the end goal... and not get caught up in the details. When you find yourself obsessing over the details, don't ignore them, but recognize that you W might not be able to tell you right now, because she's trying to figure out what was going on herself... Eventually, she will be able to answer most of your questions... For my W, I had to SHOW her that I could handle her answers in a godly, mature manner... without becoming angry or hurtful. Once she could trust my reactions to her answers, she really started opening up.

I do believe that in the end, once your W has learned to trust you again, and you have learned to trust her, that the gory details won't be as important as they are at this moment in time.

Hope you're having a better day today... You and your W are in my prayers.

Semper Fi,
RIF90