Broken Vessel, please read the following beautifull story. I searched for it on my computer this morning and I hope it will mean something to you today: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

A LOVE STORY

One day, I woke early in the morning to watch the sunrise.
Ah the beauty of God's creation is beyond description.
As I watched, I praised God for His beautiful work.
As I sat there, I felt the Lord's presence with me.

He asked me,

"Do you love me?" I answered, "Of course, God!
You are my Lord and Savior!"
Then He asked, "If you were physically handicapped, would you still love me?"
I was perplexed. I looked down upon my arms, legs and the rest
of my body and wondered how many things I wouldn't be able to
do, the things that I took for granted. And I answered,
"It would be tough Lord, but I would still love You."

Then the Lord said,

"If you were blind, would you still love my creation?"
How could I love something without being able to see it?
Then I thought of all the blind people in the world and how many of them still loved God and His creation.
So I answered, "It's hard to think of it, but I would still love you." The Lord then asked me,
"If you were deaf, would you still listen to my word?"
How could I listen to anything being deaf? Then I understood.
Listening to God's Word is not merely using our ears, but our hearts. I answered,
"It would be tough, but I would still listen to Your word."

The Lord then asked,

"If you were mute, would you still praise My Name?"
How could I praise without a voice?
Then it occurred to me: God wants us to sing from our very heart and soul.
It never matters what we sound like. And praising God is not always with a song, but
when we are persecuted, we give God praise with our words of thanks. So I answered,
"Though I could not physically sing, I would still praise Your Name."

And the Lord asked,

"Do you really love Me?" With courage and a strong conviction, I answered boldly,
"Yes Lord! I love You because You are the one and true God!"
I thought I had answered well, but...
God asked,

"THEN WHY DO YOU SIN?"

I answered, "Because I am only human. I am not perfect."

"THEN WHY IN TIMES OF PEACE DO YOU STRAY THE FURTHEST?
WHY ONLY IN TIMES OF TROUBLE DO YOU PRAY THE EARNEST?"

No answers. Only tears.

The Lord continued:

"Why only sing at fellowships and retreats?
Why seek Me only in times of worship?
Why ask things so selfishly?
Why ask things so unfaithfully?"

The tears continued to roll down my cheeks.

"Why are you ashamed of Me?
Why are you not spreading the good news?
Why in times of persecution, you cry to others when offer My shoulder to cry on?
Why make excuses when I give you opportunities to serve in My Name?"

I tried to answer, but there was no answer to give.

"You are blessed with life. I made you not to throw this gift away.
I have blessed you with talents to serve Me, but you continue to turn away.
I have revealed My Word to you, but you do not gain in knowledge.
I have spoken to you but your ears were closed.
I have shown My blessings to you, but your eyes were turned away.
I have sent you servants, but you sat idly by as they were pushed away.
I have heard your prayers and I have answered them all."

"DO YOU TRULY LOVE ME?"

I could not answer. How could I? I was embarrassed beyond belief.

I had no excuse. What could I say to this?
When my heart had cried out and the tears had flowed, I said,
"Please forgive me Lord. I am unworthy to be Your child."
The Lord answered, "That is My Grace, My Child." I asked,
"Then why do you continue to forgive me? Why do You love me so?"

The Lord answered,

Because you are My Creation. You are my Child. I will never abandon you.

When all you need is a friend to listen to you when you whine
When all you need is someone to catch your tears, I’ll be there.
When the one you care about the most could care less about you
When the one you gave your heart to throws it in your face, I’ll be there.
When you start to cry after hearing a sad song
When the tears just won’t stop falling down, I’ll be there.
When you heart hurts so bad you can’t even breathe
When you just want to crawl up and die, I’ll be there.

When you cry, I will have compassion and cry with you.
When you shout with joy, I will laugh with you.
When you are down, I will encourage you.
When you fall, I will raise you up.
When you are tired, I will carry you.
So you see, I’ll be there until the end.
If you ever need met just give me a call and…I’ll be there.
I will be with you till the end of days, and I will love you forever.

Never had I cried so hard before. How could I have been so cold?
How could I have hurt God as I had done? I asked God, "How much do You love me?"
The Lord stretched out His arms, and I saw His nail-pierced hands. I bowed down at the feet of Christ, my Savior. And for the first time, I truly prayed.

<small>[ June 28, 2004, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Broken Vessel, please read the following as well... As a FWW, this poem is especially meaningfull to me. Please take it and make it your own: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WHEN I SAY I'M A CHRISTIAN

When I say, "I am a Christian,
"I'm not shouting "I am saved"
I'm whispering, "I get lost"
That is why I chose this way.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I don't speak of this with pride.
I'm confessing that I stumble
And need someone to be my guide.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I'm not trying to be strong.
I'm professing that I am weak
And pray for strength to carry on.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I'm not bragging of success.
I'm admitting I have failed and
Cannot ever pay the debt.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I'm not claiming to be perfect.
My flaws are too visible
but God believes I'm worth it.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I still feel the sting of pain.
I have my share of heartaches
which is why I seek HIS name.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I do not wish to judge.
I have no authority I only know
That I'm loved.

<small>[ June 28, 2004, 07:11 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Suzet*: Nothing earth shattering to add here. Though in reading the first poem, it reminded me of a blind friend that my Grandmother had years ago.

I remember one time someone (it might have been my little sister) asked her what her favorite color was. I thought this was the most stupid question, because as you know blind people can't see and this woman had been blind since birth. Her answer was yellow. I looked at her stunned and asked her how could you possibly know that your favorite color was yellow? Her response was that people tell her that the sun is yellow and when the sun is shining, the warmth feels good. From that she knew that her favorite color was yellow. And I always thought that was a very amazing statement coming from a blind lady.

Dear Suzet,

Thank you for the time and trouble you have taken in sending me these poems today. I am putting them in a file on the pc to go back and read them, and re- read them. Those this morning and these tonight ( have just logged back on)before going to bed.

I want to pickout a verse from each to reflect on as I go to sleep:

"THEN WHY IN TIMES OF PEACE DO YOU STRAY THE FURTHEST?
WHY ONLY IN TIMES OF TROUBLE DO YOU PRAY THE EARNEST?"

No answers. Only tears.

When I say, "I am a Christian,"

[B]When I say, "I am a Christian,"
I'm not claiming to be perfect.
My flaws are too visible
but God believes I'm worth it.[B]

Thanks. I will try to sleep with that thought on my mind... Don't STRAY when things are going well, but keep close to My God who loves me and believes I am WORTH IT.

Thanks again

God bless

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear Kas, you’re welcome and it was really a pleasure sharing them with you! You know, it’s just so sad to see how extremely hard you are on yourself and the pain you going through because of this... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> If anything I send can help you to be more gentle on yourself and help you realizes your worth as a person in God’s eyes and how special you are, I will be so glad! Here is another poem & reminder for you: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

He Gathers Every Teardrop...

Regardless of the circumstance,
Regardless of the fear,
Regardless of the pain we bear,
Regardless of the tear.

Our God is ever in control,
Performing as He should,
And He has promised in His Word
To work things for our good.

But as a loving Father would,
He sometimes lets us cry
To cleanse the hurt out of our heart,
To wash it from our eye.

Yet gently gathers the tears
Within His hands to stay
Until He turns them into pearls,
and gives them back someday.

Kas, love and blessings to you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Recovering H, thanks for sharing that little story of your Grandmother, it’s beautiful! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> That statement coming from a blind lady is indeed amazing. It also reminds me how much I have to be thankful for. It just reminds me of the following I’ve read a while ago:

God Speaking

The man whispered, "God, speak to me"
And a meadowlark sang.
But the man did not hear.

So the man yelled "God, speak to me"
And the thunder & lightning rolled across the sky.
But the man did not listen.

The man looked around and said, "God, let me see you." And a star shined
brightly.
But the man did not see.

And, the man shouted, "God, show me a miracle" And a life was born.
But the man did not notice.

So, the man cried out in despair, "Touch me, God, and let me know you are
here"
Whereupon, God reached down and touched the man.
But the man brushed the butterfly away and walked on.

I found this to be a great reminder that God is always around us in the
little and simple things that we take for granted...

The good news is that you are loved.
Don't miss out on a blessing because it isn't packaged the way that you
expect.

Have a blessed day! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
Suzet

<small>[ June 29, 2004, 02:20 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Dear Suzet &(RH too for sharing that lovely story about the friend your grandmother had who was blind)

Thank you for taking the time again Suzet to send me those poems this morning.. I was just loggin on before I get ready to go out.

Please forgive my spelling mistakes.

I have been up since 3am trying to make sense of myself (see my early morning posts on the usual threads). The tiredness is creeping up on me now.

Actually you have probably helped me more than you realise in this area of poetry. If time permits please keep sending them. I don’t want to take up too much of your time though because everyone on here including yourself are so busy helping people, that you could be tired and needing some input for yourselves..

I think that story of the blind lady being ‘able to see’ though she couldn’t has impacted me, to realise again the importance of faith and believing though we can’t see the end from the beginning..

“Yet gently gathers the tears
“Yet gently gathers the tears
Within His hands to stay
Until He turns them into pearls,
and gives them back someday.”

“The good news is that you are loved.
“The good news is that you are loved.
Don't miss out on a blessing because it isn't packaged the way that you
expect”

This is a chorus of a song I am just listening to on UCB Inspirational (Christian radio station)

When the valley is deep and the road is long,
And you feel you just can’t go on…
Lay down the burden of your heart…

The presenter has just said, we all have different and burdens, but like a piece of elastic we keep giving them to God but taking them back again… This is me isn’t it??

Anyway, sending me poems Suzet has made me get out my little book again called “Threads of Gold” by Kevin Mayhew

I bought it for myself not long after I had’ confessed’.. for the very reasons I am struggling with…Self forgiveness. I have got it out again and re –reading it

The one I chose it for (though there are many in it which apply) sprang out at me when in desperation one day I drove to my local Christian bookstore for a coffee and a look around. My son had given me some money for mothers day and I bought it.

Title of poem “Utterly loved”

Utterly loved,
That’s what I am Lord…

Utterly loved by you..

Not that you condone my sins,
But with undeserved mercy and infinite patience,
You draw them to my attention,

Quicken recognition,
Lead me to repentance,

Then…assure me of your full pardon.

This is amazing, Lord,
Almost too wonderful to be,

Yet I know it’s true!

So I stand in your presence,
Cleansed, renewed,

To face the coming day with you….


Do you think I am proud? What is stopping me to believe what I know to be true?

I do believe God’s word and His forgiveness. I guess I need to re-learn my self worth and value of myself and see myself as God sees me NOW..

Cleansed
Loved
Forgiven

Thanks Suzet, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Kas

Dear Kas,

You’re welcome and thanks to you as well for your thoughtful response and the beautiful poem you’ve shared! I’m so glad the poems I’ve send so far could be of help to you and of course I will continue to send them if I’m around on this board. Please don’t think you take much of my time…you don’t. I enjoy posting and sharing with you and I’m just thankful if anything I send can be usefull or inspirational to you! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I do believe God’s word and His forgiveness. I guess I need to re-learn my self worth and value of myself and see myself as God sees me NOW..

Cleansed
Loved
Forgiven</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kas, with forgiveness among Christians (and of course, forgiveness to ourselves) is the attempt to emulate God in His forgiveness. We are to not dwell on the sin of whatever has been forgiven. We are to view, as much as it is possible for mere humans, to treat the person and see the person that we have forgiven as "cleansed and white as snow." Also, we are to, as much as possible after we have forgiven ourselves, put the sin so far away in our thoughts that it is "as if" it never occurred.

Kas, upon your repentance and confession to God, He not only forgave, but all the details were put away from his "consciousness" and you were, and are, viewed as a "new creature, sinless and pure as a virgin". "The old has gone, the new has come." While you are at it, it's time for you to really forgive your past weakness in giving in to your sinful nature and to know that you ARE a new and different creature today. As soon as you have work through all of your painful feelings, you too, must put those thoughts away "as if" they never occurred and not dwell on them any longer. I understand you’re still in the process, but the same way God expect us to forgive our neighbors, he expect us to forgive ourselves…

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The presenter has just said, we all have different and burdens, but like a piece of elastic we keep giving them to God but taking them back again… This is me isn’t it??</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kas, we are all just human beings so of course it’s understandable that sometimes we might fail and keep taking back a package we have already given to God…The same thing happened to me many times in the past during early recovery and with other things, so I do understand.... The secret is, if you realize you have taken the package back from God, hand it back to God immediately. God will always be willing to take back a package. Just as God forgive our sins when we are repentant and remorseful, he will also take the packages back again and again if we ask Him and put our trust in Him...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you think I am proud? What is stopping me to believe what I know to be true?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don’t know the answers to these questions, but I think it might be possible that you are too proud to accept the fact that you have made mistakes and wrong choices…maybe that’s part of the reason you’re struggling so much with self-forgiveness. Kas, further you must understand you’re still in a process of anger and grief towards yourself and what happened…maybe that’s why you struggle to believe what you know is true. Those things are in your head and mind but not in your heart and emotions already…

I’ll follow with some other poems and notes later on!
Suzet

<small>[ June 29, 2004, 04:46 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Dear Kas, here is the other poems and inspirational stuff I’ve promised to post to you this morning. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Personally nr. 3 "Let me not live a life that's free From "THE THINGS" that draw me close to THEE" is my favorite.

1. IN MY WEAKNESS

When you're lost in a sea of indifference,
When you're drowning, but nobody cares,
When it seems all is lost, though you've paid the high cost
And you can't pierce the ceiling with prayers;
When you're standing for right ~ but alone in your fight ~
When your heart is breaking in two;
Dear friend, just recall the sparrows that fall ~
He really does care for you.

Sometimes in losing, we win more,
And sometimes the battle's not o'er;
Sometimes the struggle brings forth the strength
To raise us up where eagles soar.
When we have reached the high places
And we gaze at the valley below
The tapestry woven, will look from above
Like it never could from here below.

God does have a plan and a purpose,
And things never happen by chance;
What you see through the lens with study
Is not just the same as a glance.
So when troubles and trials beset you,
Hold on! And study with care!
And you'll find the trace of His finger -
You'll know he is answering prayer!

It is not just the present and past He can see -
And it's not just the loss or the win;
But He sees beyond and He sees results -
He knows how the twig turns and bends.
I like to think that each twist and turn
In this gnarled old bark of mine,
Drove my roots deeper still, seeking guidance until
They're forever entwined in Thine!

2. TEARDROPS IN GODS' BOTTLE

God, who saw your yesterdays,
Sees all of your tomorrows.
He sees your pain and heartache,
And keeps track of all your sorrows.

God knows each hurting, lonely child,
He sees the soul that weeps.
The righteous tears He gathers,
God, in His bottle, keeps.
Not one will be forgotten,
Not one is overlooked.
The teardrops God has gathered
Are recorded in His book.

Each footstep is remembered
On the winding path we trod.
Each precious tear is treasured,
For they touch the heart of God.

3. Let me not live a life that's free From "THE THINGS" that draw me close to THEE.

For how can I ever hope to heal the wounds of others I do not feel
If my eyes are dry and I never weep?
How do I know when the hurt is deep
If my heart is cold and it never bleeds?
How can I tell what my brother needs?
For when my ears are deaf to the beggar's plea
And we close our eyes and refuse to see,
And we steel our hearts and harden our mind,
and we count it a weakness whenever we're kind,
We are no longer following THE FATHER'S WAY
Or seeking His guidance from day to day
For, without "crosses to carry" and "burdens to Bear,"
We dance through a life that is frothy and fair,
And "chasing the rainbow" we have no desire
For "roads that are rough" and "realms that are Higher"-

So spare me no heartache or sorrow, dear Lord,
For the heart that is hurt reaps the richest reward,
And God enters the heart that is broken with sorrow
As He opens the door to a BRIGHTER TOMORROW,
For only through tears can we recognise
The suffering that lies in another's eyes.

4. When you running out of prayers

Have you ever run out of prayers? I am sure it has happened to you. Where and when did you experience your low point? Was it after success or failure? It is understandable that difficult times will affect our prayer life but what happens when it is influenced by our achievements?

What causes this thing that our faith‚ between quotation marks‚ “runs out” and we become afraid? Do we also end up flat on our faces like Elijah did under the proverbial broom tree? How do we react if Jezebel’s messenger makes us stop in our tracks?

From experience we know that our faith can easily “run out” or “diminish” when we are afraid. But such events are never the end of the world for the people of God. It may look like and feel like the end‚ like it did for Elijah‚ but it resulted in a totally new dimension in his prayer life.

I want you to take note: When Elijah booked in at the broom tree‚ he did not stop talking to God. What does he say to the Lord? He says: “I have had enough‚ Lord” … (1 Kings 19:4). Pour out your heart to the Lord and know that He won’t be upset.

The Lord Jesus never tired of inviting‚ encouraging‚ inspiring‚ admonishing‚ even instructing to pray. He did this for all the people but especially for his disciples. He told them to … always pray and not give up (Luke 18:1). I know this is extremely difficult to do when we are lying beneath the broom tree; it is even difficult to believe that He hears us at all. But don’t stop praying. Where was God in Elijah’s situation? God was there with him in the person of an angel of the Lord.

God is always ready and present to help his tired servants. Jesus promised that even a swallow would not fall without the knowledge of the Father. Take note: He did not promise that the swallow would not fall; He promised that the swallow would not fall with God not knowing about it. Again‚ our visits to the broom tree are never a surprise to the Father. Indeed‚ He meets us there and prepares a meal for us. He‚ who knows everything‚ waits to strengthen us with what is required.

What do we learn at Hotel Broom Tree? It exposes us to a new way of praying. Not prayers of words only‚ but rather a complete humiliating despairing at the feet of God. It is a wordless prayer‚ a silent call for help. Sometimes we are even unable to call to God for help because we are so totally exhausted.

When we run out of prayer‚ God will still hear us. Even though we don’t form any words‚ God is looking at us and He reads the words of your huge emergency and desire for Him. Because look‚ at that moment‚ you are the prayer. Be satisfied to simply be a despairing prayer under your specific broom tree and wait to see what will happen.

You may wonder how long you have to be there. You will remain there for as long as it takes to provide you with new strength. Try to do nothing until things start moving in a direction. When Elijah got up again and went on‚ God went ahead of him and prepared his future.

What did Elijah learn from this experience? He definitely was wiser. Elijah made peace with his human nature and especially with his fallen human nature. He learnt that one sometimes is finished. But when this happens‚ God has only started. Elijah would discover that God gives more grace‚ more assistance‚ more joy‚ more hope and more strength to us in our weakness than He ever gives us in our strength; we can count on it.

His Spirit makes us aware of Him. His Son knows what we experience and his angels surround us and assist us over the rocks. We should only walk on, step by step. The Unseen will enfold us and keep us standing.

<small>[ June 29, 2004, 06:05 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Bump for Broken Vessel.

Dear Kas,

I just want to let you know that although I’m much further in recovery, I also struggle with “passion” feelings for my H. This has been a problem since we started dating and is the main issue I'm struggling with... If you interested, you can read this thread I’ve posted on it a while ago.

Blessings,
Suzet

<small>[ June 30, 2004, 04:49 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Dear Suzet,

I just don't know what to say in response. The things you have sent have just spoken to me so much especially at this moment now.

I have just come here after doing a post to RAP,because I have only just seen hers from last night.

I feel she is very low at the moment, and my heart goes out to her.

I am going to do a 'ps' to her for her to read all these things you have been sending me, because she is a Christian too, and I know they will help her, and God could speak to her through it as well.

I really do appreciate you taking the time to do this.

I can't get over how people who don't know me are still sticking to me here on this board, despite knowing my situation. Even more, knowing the circumstances surrounding it, and the fact that I am in withdrawal and am still in fog. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I guess I will be getting some 4x4's in replies by people later, for how much I confessed I am still in the fog , to RAP and how my feelings were still for OM..

I wanted to be honest for her sake though, and for her to believe she is cared for and loved by people and by God. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I guess people reading that post will think I haven't really repented.

I have, but the withdrawal is quite intense and I don't feel I seem to progress much in the sense of letting go of feelings for OM.

Your poems and message on Elijah were so appropriate to me. I often think of Elijah and his relationship to God.

He went through all that with Ahab & Jezebel, then through all that on Mount Carmel, and was strong in God, then ended up fleeing from Jezebel and her words to him and threats on his life..

I think that is me in a way when Elijah fled to the cave. Sometimes I expect to hear God in a certain and forceful way, but often His voice is the still voice that speaks IN the storm, even though the storm can still be going on.

Peace in the storm I guess. God gave Elijah the strength to carry on, even though the struggles were not going to end there..

I guess that has just hit me Suzet.. My struggles are still there, God is still there too. Yet He can give me what I need to make it through..

You are right in what you say on self forgiveness in how it is with me I guess.

[B]"I don’t know the answers to these questions, but I think it might be possible that you are too proud to accept the fact that you have made mistakes and wrong choices…maybe that’s part of the reason you’re struggling so much with self-forgiveness. Kas, further you must understand you’re still in a process of anger and grief towards yourself and what happened…maybe that’s why you struggle to believe what you know is true. Those things are in your head and mind but not in your heart and emotions already…" [B]
I feel tormented with grief in 2 ways:

For what I have done <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />
For what I still feel <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

How can I truly say I have repented when I still feel as I do to OM?? <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I guess I can answer that really.

Repentance, and willfully still carrying on with sin regardless, are 2 different things.

God accepts my confession of guilt. He knows and understands my struggles in coming to terms with it.

Whereas during the A I was willfully carrying on and deceiving, I am not now.

A broken reed he will not despise or crush.


[B]“God, who saw your yesterdays,
Sees all of your tomorrows.
He sees your pain and heartache,
And keeps track of all your sorrows.”

“I want you to take note: When Elijah booked in at the broom tree‚ he did not stop talking to God. What does he say to the Lord? He says: “I have had enough‚ Lord” … (1 Kings 19:4). Pour out your heart to the Lord and know that He won’t be upset.”[B]

I am running the opposite way (doing a Jonah infact) to the way I should be running in.

I think I can’t tell God my struggles because they involve OM

God says “Yes tell me”. I love you and am your creator, and I understand you. “Psalm 139) where could I flee from His presence anyway??

“Don’t worry about ANYTHING” BUT bring all my pain, sorrow and struggles to God.

He won’t give me what I think I want, but He will give me what HE KNOWS I need…

[B]“The Lord Jesus never tired of inviting‚ encouraging‚ inspiring‚ admonishing‚ even instructing to pray. He did this for all the people but especially for his disciples. He told them to … always pray and not give up (Luke 18:1). I know this is extremely difficult to do when we are lying beneath the broom tree; it is even difficult to believe that He hears us at all. But don’t stop praying. Where was God in Elijah’s situation? God was there with him in the person of an angel of the Lord.”

“When we run out of prayer‚ God will still hear us. Even though we don’t form any words‚ God is looking at us and He reads the words of your huge emergency and desire for Him. Because look‚ at that moment‚ you are the prayer. Be satisfied to simply be a despairing prayer under your specific broom tree and wait to see what will happen.

”You may wonder how long you have to be there. You will remain there for as long as it takes to provide you with new strength. Try to do nothing until things start moving in a direction. When Elijah got up again and went on‚ God went ahead of him and prepared his future”[B]

Infact, there is no way to pick out specific pieces of the poems and thoughts you sent, because everything was so true and applicable to me.

Thanks again Suzet,

I am just going to post JL and reply to him (he is helping me in another area) and I want to encourage RAP to read the poems you have sent.

Kas

ps. Thanks for your other post too. I will look up that thread you said.

I appreciate your honesty in saying that you too still have struggles with passion feelings for H despite being further on that me in recovery

Thanks for that.

Kas

Dear Kas, it’s a pleasure and you're welcome! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I’ve read the post you send to RAP on the “Moving forward” thread and so many of the things you’ve said to her sound exactly like me while I was in withdrawal and early recovery… I can especially relate to the residual feelings you have for OM and the struggles & religious concerns you experience in trying to overcome those feelings.

Kas, let me give you some more background on my situation if you don’t mind:

Although I’ve never physically or verbally acted on my feelings towards OM, it escalated to a level where I started to constantly think about him and started to fantasize about OM sexually and otherwise… Most of my wrong and sinful thoughts and fantasies towards OM started while I was in the midst of the fog and withdrawal and in a deep depression. While I know at the time that it was the best to have NC with OM, I was still missing him and his friendship and couldn’t stop thinking about him. While I was moving further into depression my thoughts and feelings started to became very excessive and obsessive. At the time I KNOW my thoughts were wrong and sinful, I was feeling very guilty towards God and my dear H, but at the time it felt as if I couldn’t control my thoughts… It was like a big vicious cycle – I would have the thoughts and fantasies, feel very guilty and anxious afterwards and then confess towards God and pray, but only shortly after this I would have these same thoughts again and so the cycle continued… It was terrible, like a downward spiral and I couldn’t seem to get out of it on my own.

Those feelings were a big struggle and religious problem to me. It felt if I was commit “adultery in the heart” because according to Scripture “adultery in the heart” is the same as ‘real physical’ adultery. However, I’ve found that the further I have moved into recovery and from residual feelings for OM, the better I was able to control my thoughts and feelings. Most of the obsessive thoughts and feelings for OM also stopped after I’ve started taking medicine for obsessive thoughts, depression & anxiety. This was of tremendous help in my personal recovery. After this I slowly but surely gained control over my thoughts and feelings again. A few months later I was still in withdrawal and missing OM terribly, but without having adulterous and obsessive thoughts and feelings about him anymore. It was the way you would miss someone who was a good friend to you and you learned to care for.

All of the above was a long process for me… In total it took 18 months before I was completely recovered from all withdrawal symptoms.

Before my EA I thought A’s only happen to bad people who have low morals and no conscience and that people who have affairs don’t have love or respect towards their spouses… I have learned to A’s can indeed happen to ANYONE and that even good, religious people with high morals and strong conscience can get involved in an A if not cautious and carefull...

Kas, I think it's normal for a long time to experience lingering feelings for the OM. I understand you feel guilty about a lot of things. You feel guilty that it happened in the first place. You feel badly that you haven't been able to put these feelings completely to rest. And you feel awful for hurting your H and wish to protect him from further hurt.

Kas, really, when you think about all those things....they are wonderful in their own way. I know you don't think well of yourself, but consider looking at each of these issues with a new pair of eyes. You feel guilty that you had the A...but you ended it, stayed with your husband, have maintained no contact and are working on your marriage....despite lingering feelings. That shows strength and commitment. You made a mistake, but you are doing the right things to rectify it....feel good about yourself for that. We all have failings....it's how we deal with them that separates us. The fact that you are so repentant in spite of the feelings you still have....shows the kind of remorse that it takes to heal this rift. You are doing just fine. I'm understand you miss this OM....but time and distance will deaden this pain, and as your marriage heals and becomes stronger, it will get easier.

Please read the following insightful post I received from Ark while I was in early recovery and while I struggled to get rid of those feelings:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> YOU SAID
The one major thing I’m still feel guilty about is my lingering thoughts and feelings for OM and the difficulty to put these feelings complete to rest. This is really a big struggle and religious problem to me. Although I’ve already forgave myself for the previous mistakes made and although I know that my H and God had also forgiven me, I’m still having a issue with the scripture in the Bible where Jesus talks about “adultery in the heart”. Therefore, in spite of the fact that I’m still continue NC and do all the right things to protect my H etc., I’m just wondering if I’m still commit sin/”adultery in the heart” because of my lingering thought and feelings about OM. Maybe I’m just too hard on myself sometimes.

Sometimes for very obvious reasons and sometimes just because it is the nature of the whole big mess. Thoughts, feelings, and occurances take on huge meaning, grave seriousness, and potentially worrisome issues...when in reality they are just normal occurances..but when processed through the infidelity filter...watch out...magnified to the 100th power.

Suzet the truth is that if your OM had not been an other man but someone you as a single person were dating and for whatever reason you two broke up and you were now dating your husband...you would still have thoughts and memories and think of him...that is totally normal..it carries no great meaning or profound revelations.

The act of our brains having a memory and thoughts coming in our head in not stoppable,

What we do and can control is our reaction to these thoughts...give these thoughts weight and meaning and they will continue...spend time really pondering them, reminicsing and they will become stronger and gain "meaning".

It is you that must break the cycle in your brain by doing different things..

1. as soon as a thought, image, pops in about him you push it away and change your thought,,,and we all KNOW we can do this...no one spends a lot of time with the thought of their upcoming dental appointment to get a cavity filled...or when your on vacation you don't spend a lot of time about packing and leaving day...no we have those thoughts and quickly move on to something more pleasant...you must learn to the same....

2. Time fades and heals the importance we place on events is also true...the farther we move from experiences the more distance we place on them instead of deeply pondering and examing them the more we learn to let go of those thoughts.

3. YOu need to quit associating a lot of guilt and negative emotions to these thoughts or you will be feeding the power they need to continue...

Look at to why you are clinging to the guilt of thoughts rather than saying...dang I can't control my brain from thinking the thought initially but I can control the amount of time and energy I spend exploring the thought AND how much importance i give it...

You may actually be gaining something from the guilt you feel...that it somehow PROVES your regret....but we "prove" our regret by totally recommiting to our spouses and acting thusly.

In pop-psyche these days people love to throw around repressing those feelings and ingnoring them and that leading to unhappiness...but in reality those thoughts are normal as is moving away from them...people don't graduate from high school and the morning after graduation never ever think of highschool anymore...it was big part of their lives for a while with emotional attachment...but as people move forward those memories carry less and less weight and bring less and less emotion as time moves on...and not spending minute after minute pondering highschool is not repressing thoughts and emotions..it is moving on...
suzet you need to "just let it be" (as john paul ringo and george would say)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Kas, can you see that the fact that you still have feelings for OM and missing him is normal and DON’T mean that you are not really repentant? Those feelings for OM won’t just go away overnight… It is really a process and take much time and patience... You need to be more gentle on yourself but I understand it is difficult since I have walked in the same shoes and struggled with the same things regarding residual feelings. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Blessings and prayers to you,
Suzet

<small>[ June 30, 2004, 07:50 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Dear Kas,

Could my post be of any help to you? I don’t want to sound intrusive and you don’t need to send me a long reply, but I was just curious and was wondering about you this morning. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> It will be my last day to post tomorrow since I’m going to take 2 weeks leave from work.

Blessings,
Suzet

<small>[ July 01, 2004, 07:31 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

Suzet, Just wanted to thank you for the inspirational poems. I was feeling very down the other day when I came to your thread. You uplifted me. Thank you

KY

KY, it's my pleasure and I'm so glad it could help! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Take care,
Suzet

Dear Suzet,

Have just seen your post on this thread. I have been frantically trying to find it because didn't have chance to reply before, and then was having problems connecting.

I want to do a long reply because you have said so many things which have helped me and which you struggled with and shared is what I am in now.

I can't 'take it in' sometimes why people like you are still so patient and responsive to people like me. Doesnt' it make you frustrated?

My heart is heavy. I am bordering so much on either making contact or 'giving up on myself'.

Actually giving up on myself is winning, because I just want God to take me and give my poor dear H someone he deserves. He deserves better than me.

I have to pick the kids up now, so I will post when I get back in reply to your post.

I will miss posting you when you go away. I will post anyway, so you can read it when you come back.

Thanks again for being there,

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Dear Suzet,

Hello again. I have chance to sit down for a few mins to do this post before all the kids want the pc.

Please let me start from the beginning in my reply to your post if I may,

By the way am so grateful for you taking the time to share. If I didn’t have you guys to ‘pour out’ to I think I would be going backwards not forwards.

“Although I’ve never physically or verbally acted on my feelings towards OM, it escalated to a level where I started to constantly think about him and started to fantasize about OM sexually and otherwise…”

This is the point which it reached with Om and me. We both could have stopped it from going further. We both chose not too. I accept my part in this. I know I deliberately chose to go that way.

“While I know at the time that it was the best to have NC with OM, I was still missing him and his friendship and couldn’t stop thinking about him. While I was moving further into depression my thoughts and feelings started to became very excessive and obsessive. At the time I KNOW my thoughts were wrong and sinful, I was feeling very guilty towards God and my dear H, but at the time it felt as if I couldn’t control my thoughts… It was like a big vicious cycle – I would have the thoughts and fantasies, feel very guilty and anxious afterwards and then confess towards God and pray, but only shortly after this I would have these same thoughts again and so the cycle continued… It was terrible, like a downward spiral and I couldn’t seem to get out of it on my own.”

You have described me exactly. This is ME how I am daily. How I am as I type this post. I think of OM and want to contact him. I pray and feel guilty to God and my H. I then have the same thoughts over and over again. It is a DOWNWARD spiral. I sometimes don’t think I will get there. I can see NO WAY out of these feelings. I just want to give up on myself. I feel I am useless. I won’t make it, and I want to contact OM so badly.

“Those feelings were a big struggle and religious problem to me. It felt if I was commit “adultery in the heart” because according to Scripture “adultery in the heart” is the same as ‘real physical’ adultery. However, I’ve found that the further I have moved into recovery and from residual feelings for OM, the better I was able to control my thoughts and feelings. Most of the obsessive thoughts and feelings for OM also stopped after I’ve started taking medicine for obsessive thoughts, depression & anxiety. This was of tremendous help in my personal recovery. After this I slowly but surely gained control over my thoughts and feelings again. A few months later I was still in withdrawal and missing OM terribly, but without having adulterous and obsessive thoughts and feelings about him anymore. It was the way you would miss someone who was a good friend to you and you learned to care for.

All of the above was a long process for me… In total it took 18 months before I was completely recovered from all withdrawal symptoms.”

Suzet, I don’t think I will make it for much longer. I really don’t’..Either I am hanging on by ‘a thread’.. Posting on MB’s is my only vent. I have no one else to talk to apart from you all, and the advice you send me.

I read everything you all post. JL, Pep, all the others on the Moving on Thread, Believer, FL, RH, NCwalker. I read it all.

It may not seem I am taking anything in, but all your posts at the moment are a daily source of giving me hope and encouragement to still hang on by my thin thread.

I read the sad situation of SML and am torn apart for her. I am someone who is like her H who is causing her pain. I feel totally broken inside, yet somehow when I read some posts like the lady who is thinking of starting an affair, I can’t believe she is thinking of that yet that is how I was.

I am in despair of myself Suzet. I have the chance to move on and be restored in God yet I have no will to. I see myself as a no-hoper, who deserves nothing anyway, and a waste of time. (I must sound like I am in terrible fogland, and having a pity party on myself I know)

A lot of women on here would love a forgiving H like mine. Yet I am void inside. I have no feelings at all.

“Before my EA I thought A’s only happen to bad people who have low morals and no conscience and that people who have affairs don’t have love or respect towards their spouses… I have learned to A’s can indeed happen to ANYONE and that even good, religious people with high morals and strong conscience can get involved in an A if not cautious and careful...”

That was my thinking too. How ashamed I am to have thought like that of others, when I know now how easy it can happen to us all.

“Kas, I think it's normal for a long time to experience lingering feelings for the OM. I understand you feel guilty about a lot of things. You feel guilty that it happened in the first place. You feel badly that you haven't been able to put these feelings completely to rest. And you feel awful for hurting your H and wish to protect him from further hurt.”

At this point I have no hope for myself. I am turning to drink to escape. Each day I think I shouldn’t be here but I have no choice other than to get through the day. You could meet me at church and think I was a respectable well dressed woman who has her life and morals all sorted out. Yet behind the mask is me. A broken vessel. A pot that despite all encouragement and hope from others I am fit for nothing again..


Kas, can you see that the fact that you still have feelings for OM and missing him is normal and DON’T mean that you are not really repentant? Those feelings for OM won’t just go away overnight… It is really a process and take much time and patience... You need to be more gentle on yourself but I understand it is difficult since I have walked in the same shoes and struggled with the same things regarding residual feelings.

I was really bowled over by that post to you in the past by Ark. That is so relevant to me. All of it. I will confess to you why I am scared of myself in a way and feel I have no hope.

~~ OM is moving away soon and I don’t want him to go. I really don’t. Even thinking of it and the finality of not bumping into him again is too painful to express, YET

This would be an ideal recovery situation to some

It is tearing me apart inside and making my self forgiveness worse, because I really don’t want him to go. I want to see him before he goes. I want to talk to him. I miss txts.

You must all be ‘horrified’ at me saying this given the nature of my A in the first place.

I have let you all down.

I have let God down.

I continue to let my H down.

Am just grateful you are still there and not telling me to just ‘go’ which surprises me I guess.

There are so many needy people on this site who are in pain.

I hope you will still post when you get back, and I do hope you will have a good break.

Thank you for listening as always,

Kas
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

BV and Suzet*,

Forgive me for a small thread jack. I will not stay.

BV,

I feel your pain and how I wish I could just be there with you. We could go out to lunch and just get our minds off this for a while. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I am feeling exactly the same way! I am terrified. I am crushed. My marriage looks horrible today.

I feel I am "hanging by a thread" also. My poor H is in pain. His pain and anger have caused my heart to run away hard today.

I started drinking at 10:00a.m. this morning. Not the usual Pam. Has been lately. Nothing will numb this. I feel I am trying to escape from something that is too strong for me.

When H walks in room, it is awful! Things have taken such a horrible turn. I do not know if I have the strength to fight this now.

Sorry. No more thread jacking. Will sit back and read.

BV,

Just know I care about you. You are valuable in the kingdom of God. Satan would do anything to destroy that.

You must be pretty special if he is fighting you so hard. Hang in there. That is all I have.

Hugs,
Pam

First to RAP,

Dear RAP, you’re welcome to post to this thread at any time and as often as you want. Please do so! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I feel for both you and BV… Both of you is indeed special and valuable to God.

Dear Kas,

Thanks so much for your reply’s and thanks for the confession you have made to me… I do understand. Kas, the reason why I’m patient and responsive to you is because I understand and have empathy for what you’re struggling with and going through... I know it’s not easy and I understand you need support and people who can listen right now... Kas, I’m not frustrated by your posts at all... In fact, I’m glad and thankful if any of the posts I send can be helpful to you in any way. I want you to know that you are not alone in all of this…

The other reason I feel so responsive to you is because I can really relate with your feelings while I was in withdrawal in early recovery myself. While I was in the midst of withdrawal (where you are right now) I didn’t post to these boards very often because as a FWW, I didn’t feel ‘safe’ by expressing and posting my feelings so honestly and openly... But right now you’re in a position where there are many FWWs on these board who are in the same stage than you and with whom you can share with. It’s something I didn’t really had while I was in early recovery and in the midst of withdrawal, so by posting to you, I also feel I can give you the type of support and understanding I didn’t had when I was at your stage.

Luckily I had a Christian counselor at the time who supported me through all of this and at least it was someone I could talk to... She has also became a very good friend and confident of mine – my mentor – and I’m very lucky to have her in my life… She is also the one who’ve realized that I couldn’t continue in that downward spiral of obsessive thoughts (a symptom of OCD), anxiety and depression any longer and she realized that I needed the help of medication. I must honestly tell you that I don’t know what would happen if I didn’t start using the medication. It was a 'life saver' to me.

If someone have a physical imbalance (internal cause), it’s possible that it might linger for years before it’s eventually ‘triggered’ by something and then started to get out of control… (Depression and other disorders can also be genetically transmissible in families). In my case I’ve never recognized any signs of depression (although I had many “blue” or bad moods throughout the years without any specific reasons which I viewed as “normal”, but today I know it wasn’t). For years and years I tried to repress the childhood experiences until more than 2 years ago when the depression, obsessive thoughts and anxiety was “triggered” by my inappropriate involvement with OM. The EA was the catalyst that forced me to go into therapy and explore childhood issues. The medication made it a lot easier for me to cope while I was in withdrawal and I use it chronically now since my deviation (OCD with associated depression and anxiety) is also genetically a devaition in both sides of my family. I'm using the Anti-Depressant: Celexa (an SRRI-inhibitor). It have minimum side affects; effective to treat depression, OCD and anxiety; and is very safe to use on the long term.

Kas, I don’t know your background and circumstances and I realize and respect that you don’t want to make use of medication again, but you might need it again. I'm worried that you use drinking as a way to cope because it is NOT a solution. I can see and feel the despair in your posts… Please find help (IC and/or medication) if necessary. In fact, I will highly recommend it. Why struggling like this and go through so much pain if there's something that can help you cope an make things easier for you? And let me tell you, finding help is NOT a sign of weakness, please realize that. If you use medication again, then just make sure you use it wisely (and not excessively than in the past) and that you are closely monitored by a doctor/psychiatrist.

Kas, you might consider to be properly diagnosed by a specialist for any psychiatric disorder (depression or whatever) or deviation that might be caused by a physical imbalance in your brain/body and needs to be treated. Do you have any signs of obsessive or compulsive behavior? I know an obsessive thinking pattern (that might also be caused by a physical imbalance and goes hand in hand with depression) also adds to excessive feelings of guilt, despair, no sense of self-worth etc. From what you’ve posted to me, I think there might be a possibility that you suffer from a chemical imbalance that causes depression, OCD or whatever. It's very likely that you have developed this imbalance as a result of the A; your current circumstances; the withdrawal etc.

I think most people don’t understand the nature of psychiatric disorders and therefore, many people suffer ‘in silence’ for many years before they get any help because they belief there problem is only mentally or psychologically and they must “pull themselves together”. But other than situations and circumstances that cause people to develop depression etc., the deviation can also have a physical origin as well that needs to be treated through medicine. If circumstances lead to a psychiatric disorder (external) it might lead to the imbalance (internal cause) as well, and then the patient needs to be treated with both IC and medication.

Although I felt very bad about my diagnosis at the time, it was at the same time a big relief to realize that the imbalance was hugely the cause of my emotional instability, anxiety etc. It was a big relief to know that my problem wasn’t just my fault ‘mentally’, ‘psychologically’ or ‘religiously’ and that something could be medically done about it (together with counseling to treat the external cause of the deviation). I don’t underestimate the impact of the situations and circumstances that leads to depression etc., but I just think you must make sure that you don’t suffer from an internal cause (physical imbalance/deviation) as well.

Kas, while I’m gone, please feel free to post and vent on this thread as often as you want and when I’m back I will read all of it. I’m coming in to work next week Friday and then I will read and respond to you again… And any of the other FWW’s (onlywords, finally learning, RAP) out there, please feel free to post on this thread and support Broken Vessel and each other… <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings and my best wishes to all of you,
Suzet

<small>[ July 02, 2004, 06:41 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>