Quote from the first link

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... situational depression is caused by some external event and is generally self-limiting; it goes away when the cause of the problem fades. How long it takes depends on the person and the circumstances. The effect of losing a ball game may dissipate in a day; it may take a year or more to recover after the death of a loved one. If situational depression seems out of proportion to the loss or goes on too long, however, medical help may be needed.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think this quote is the bottom line. Some BS chose to stick with their "situation" to save the marriage. You can become situationally and clinically depressed (one is not exclusive of the other) about a cheating spouse and the impending loss of you family and life as you know it VERY, VERY quickly. This "situational" type of depression is not related to someone staying in a situation they should necessarily end, it is related to someone choosing to stay in a difficult situation as a means to an end. Sure, everyone of us here has probably seen some who stay way beyond what is reasonable, but remember, reasonable varies widely among individuals and only the individual knows when enough is enough.

Actually I think I was less tolerant of WS's poor behavior when I was on antidepressants, as I could think and evaluate things more clearly without being overly emotional about everything.

I understood those risks and my doctor really gave me something just to help me sleep and help me calm down during the day, and I was prescribed the minimum dose to help me get up and go to school. I read about the side effects, and I didnt' really feel comfortable about it, but it helped me during the REALLY HARD times, but I didnt' feel "SUPER" like some people say their AD made them felt, I could fall asleep, rest and move on during the day, but I was still down. I stopped them myself, but it helped me out. I take some when I can't fall asleep or when I'm really down. Longest I took them straight was a week... I didn't ahve any side effects.. except too much sleeping*

alpraxolam bexal.. that's what I had..

Nellie (and others)

I'm not arguing that A/D's are a magic pill. They should be prescribed with care, and appropriate medical supervision, including, IMO, I/C. If someone takes A/D's but fails to change their "situation" or the causes of the depression, then when they stop the depression will likely recur.

That said, I went to your link's, Nellie, and the way I read what it describes as "situational depression" could very easily be described as "grief". In fact, that's the way I would describe it, and, I think, my I/C would as well. After my A I had counseling for dealing with the grief of losing the OW. We also looked at some other situations in my life where I had not appropriately dealt with grief.

I guess part of the reason for mentioning all of this is this: what you are calling "situational depression" can, I believe, progress to clinical depression if not dealt with in an appropriate and timely manner. I think that that is part of the reason SOME physicians choose to prescribe a short course of A/D's for "situational depression". To help a person recover from a situation more quickly. For example...my MIL went through Menopause a few years ago. During this time she went through about a year and a half of varying stages of depression. She had also lost her elderly mother around the same time. Now, were the causes known, and were they situational? Absolutely. But, could a six month program of A/D's, along with some grief counseling and counseling to deal with the effects of aging/menopause, helped her to feel better more quickly? Possibly. I'd even say probably.

So, I agree that there are situations where "dealing with the problem" is an good alternative to med's. But, I think there are also times when it doesn't necessarily hurt to have a physician prescribe med's to help a person recover more quickly, or keep them from "going over the edge".

But, as I said before...

I do agree that TOO MANY PEOPLE are on A/D's, that don't really need them.

I do agree that the long term effects of A/D's has yet to be researched effectively. (But I also feel that, unfortunately, in order to DO a long term study, you have to prescribe the med's for a long term, and then study the recipients. How else would you do a long term study?)

And, I feel that A/D's are being given out for WAY too many conditions other than that for which they were developed. I mean, now they're hawking A/D's for weight loss, for Social Anxiety disorder, OCD, PMS, Attention Deficit, etc., etc., etc. So, that is a BIG part of any problem, IMO.

I don't think that a person should just take whatever their Dr. throws at them, as I have had Dr's who love to push pills, myself. But, I also know that I am a living example of the positive effects of A/D's on someone who suffers from clinical depression. I would not be alive right now, had it not been for A/D's.

Bob

I'm married to a Dr. and am on a/d's. The problem with them and suiscide has been mentione before; a/d's at initial use lift the depression just enough so that a persistanly suicidal person may find the energy and drive to carry out the act. A/d's don't change what you think, but rather how intensely you feel about those thoughs if they're depressive.

Believe it or not, suicidal thoghts are not lways depressive. they can come from a logical cognitive process due to error thinking. Folks who's motivations come from their thinking and feeling selves may find themselves ready to commit suicide if therapeutic intervention is not initiated.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Plumb Bob:
<strong>And, I feel that A/D's are being given out for WAY too many conditions other than that for which they were developed. I mean, now they're hawking A/D's for weight loss, for Social Anxiety disorder, OCD, PMS, Attention Deficit, etc., etc., etc. So, that is a BIG part of any problem, IMO.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Bob,

I agree that A/D’s should not be given out for weight loss, Attention Deficit etc. at all, but many times disorders like Anxiety, OCD, PMS etc. goes WITH depression or is a result of it... SRRI’s are very effective to treat depression, anxiety disorders and OCD. More than a year ago I was diagnosed with OCD and associated depression and anxiety. I’m using Celexa (an SRRI inhibitor) chronically since these deviations is also genetically a problem in both sides of my family. This medication have worked wonders for me and was indeed a 'life saver'... I can truly say it is a 'magic pill' for me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

PS: Bob, I've send you a reply on Atrueheart's thread on "In Recovery". <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

<small>[ June 30, 2004, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

I agree with the principle of what Suzet* said...

Sometimes, the person's longterm quality of life is greatly improved when anti-D's are used for chronic conditions, even off-label conditions.

I prescribe. I use ~some~ anti'D's for chronic neuropathic pain .... and it REALLY helps improve the quality of life for certain people.

Interesting discussion.

Pep

It may be that the short term effects of antidepressants that cause the patient to be less lethargic and therefore have sufficient energy to plan suicide may be part of the issue, but I think it is likely that that is not the entire explanation. One example I heard of involved an off-label use of Zoloft to treat migraines in a teen who had shown no previous signs of depression attempting suicide. Certainly some drugs, both antidepressants and unrelated medications, can cause anxiety and other related problems - when my husband and I were prescribed Ventalin for bronchitis and pneumonia, I could not sit still, and he described feeling a "sense of impending doom." Our doctor blew it off, saying it was no worse than the effects of six cups of coffee (I wouldn't know, since I don't drink coffee). I would certainly warn anyone who was genetically related to either myself or my husband, and particularly any of our children, to hesitate to take this medication. Different people may react quite differently to various medications - a certain percentage of people metabolize Codeine either much more slowly or much more quickly than "normal" due to a specific genetic variation - and therefore a typical dose may be far too high or too low for them. The same may well be true of antidepressants. There is much that we do not know about the mechanisms by which SSRI's work.

I don't believe that there is evidence that situational depression can "progress" into clinical depression if not treated, although both types of depression can co-exist.

An interesting article on the topic of variations in metabolism of medications is at:

http://www.mult-sclerosis.org/news/Jul2000/Pharmacogenomics.html

" off-label use of Zoloft to treat migraines "

Zoloft has not been shown to be an effective prophylactic for migraines .... it's just not used for this purpose because it is not effective....

Neither is Celexa, Prozac, Paxil... NOT used for migraine prophylaxis.... not per AHS guidelines.

Perhaps what you were looking at was a drug study????


Just FYI......

Interesting thread Nellie.

Pep

Macrobid side effects may include lack or loss of appetite, nausea, and vomiting. If the side effects continue or are bothersome, check with your doctor. Less common or rare Macrobid side effects may include abdominal pain/discomfort, blue skin, chills, confusion, cough, chest pain, depression, diarrhea, difficulty breathing, dizziness, drowsiness, exaggerated sense of well-being, eye disorder, fever, hair loss, headache, hepatitis, hives, inflammation of the nerves causing symptoms of numbness, tingling, pain, or muscle weakness, intestinal inflammation, involuntary eye movement, irregular heartbeat, itching, itchy red skin patches, joint pain, muscle pain, peeling skin, psychotic reactions, rash, severe allergic reactions, skin inflammation with flaking, skin swelling or welts, vertigo, yellowing of the skin and whites of the eyes, and weakness.

I found the side effects of an antibiotic used to treat a mild urinary tract infection quite shocking since it included confusion, exagerated sense of well being and pyschotic reactions to go along with physical reactions.

Bottom line all prescriptions drugs even something as benign as an antibiotic can impact your mental condition.

I haven't found the article about Zoloft and migraines yet, but a suicide attempt by a teenager on Effexor for migraines is described in this article:

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/01/04/CM118608.DTL

According to this article which appeared on a fairly reputable (though far from technical) site, one study showed Zoloft to be effective at reducing the incidence and severity of migraines in half of the patients. Of course it doesn't mention studies where this was found not to be the case.

http://health.discovery.com/centers/headaches/migraine/migraine.html

<small>[ July 01, 2004, 07:53 AM: Message edited by: Nellie1 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Bottom line all prescriptions drugs even something as benign as an antibiotic can impact your mental condition. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">"All" is a big word...perhaps a little too big in this discussion.

But, the post makes a point...there are benefits and drawbacks to every medication, and not just prescription drugs.

Ever read the PDA entry for Aspirin (Salicylic Acid)? You'll never take another aspirin again!

Another point regarding all these study links...I don't put a whole lot of stock into studies until I find out who's funding them...they will ALWAYS result in findings that are pleasing to the benefactor. It's like basing a report on the impossibility of Mad Cow Disease becoming a problem in the U.S., when the report is funded by the Beef Council.

I agree with Pep, it is an interesting discussion.

Nellie, would you be willing to share what your background is in the world of A/D's? I'm not looking for ammunition or anything; you seem fairly knowledgable, and very convicted. I'm curious what your history is with the drugs. Have you ever taken them? Been prescribed them? Are you a prescriber? or a Counselor? I'm really not looking for information to "use against you"; I'm interested in better understanding your position. If it's too personal, then don't post it.

Bob

Another point regarding all these study links...I don't put a whole lot of stock into studies until I find out who's funding them...they will ALWAYS result in findings that are pleasing to the benefactor.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Yep!

I've been involved in migraine drug studies.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> (a co-investigator .... ooooh, sounds scary <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

And this ain't nutin' but the truth PBob.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by stunned-dad-fast recovering:
<strong> Macrobid side effects may include lack or loss of appetite, nausea, and vomiting. If the side effects continue or are bothersome, check with your doctor. Less common or rare Macrobid side effects may include abdominal pain/discomfort, blue skin, chills, confusion, cough, chest pain, depression, diarrhea, difficulty breathing, dizziness, drowsiness, exaggerated sense of well-being, eye disorder, fever, hair loss, headache, hepatitis, hives, inflammation of the nerves causing symptoms of numbness, tingling, pain, or muscle weakness, intestinal inflammation, involuntary eye movement, irregular heartbeat, itching, itchy red skin patches, joint pain, muscle pain, peeling skin, psychotic reactions, rash, severe allergic reactions, skin inflammation with flaking, skin swelling or welts, vertigo, yellowing of the skin and whites of the eyes, and weakness.

I found the side effects of an antibiotic used to treat a mild urinary tract infection quite shocking since it included confusion, exagerated sense of well being and pyschotic reactions to go along with physical reactions.

Bottom line all prescriptions drugs even something as benign as an antibiotic can impact your mental condition. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let's say YOU are involved (guinea pig that you are <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> )in a drug study SDFR. And I am the investigator. If you trip and fall over the loose garden hose ---> during the study period .... I MUST report your fall as an "incident". If you catch a cold, I must report that illness as an incident. If you have an affair during the study period I must report the affair as an incident (joking .... you'd lie and I'd never know ... LOL <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Pep

Plumb Bob,

I have no personal experience with antidepressants. I do have an advanced degree in biology.

I have always felt strongly about using extreme caution when it came to using medication. Except for taking motrin/advil a few times a year, I could probably count on my fingers the number of times I have used any kind of medication in the half century I have been around - and several times I have suffered side effects from the medicine.

Plumb Bob,

Funny you mentioned Aspirin. I found out when my oldest son was 5 that Pepto-Bismol shouldn't be given to kids for an upset stomach. It contains Salicylic Acid, which is in aspirin, which can cause Reyes Syndrome in children (I'm not sure if I spelled that right or not).

The use of medications is hard to debate. Some people love going to the doctor just to get prescriptions, others don't take medicine at all. I used to not take medicine unless ABSOLUTELY necessary. As I'm getting older, I've found that Motrin or Tylenol can be a lifesaver on some mornings when my bones ache! LOL

As for the A/D's, I think it just depends on the person. All people react differently to different drugs. That's why doctors need to monitor the patient closely and ANY side effects should be a concern and discussed with the doctor.

Mitzi <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />