Gray here, still doing my best plan A. Not easy since the sparrow has not been staying at home, and yesterday she moved into a rented room. I've seen very little of her the last month. All this week she's in Chicago on business.

We spoke last week and she was sad, apologetic, ashamed. The next day she became distant again and suggested having OM come to my house and help her move her things. I put the kibosh on that, and yesterday she came to get things. As she left she said, "Thank you for letting me come today," and I said, "Have a good trip," and that was the last of it.

She also mentioned I should call her this week if there was anything I wanted to talk about. Not sure what she meant. I don't think I'll call her, but I'm trying to decide, should I reach out via a friendly email, or should I just remain backed off? I want her to start seeing returning to her M as an attractive alternative, but she makes little effort to be in contact with me. Maybe I'm just being impatient, but I hate for a week to pass by like this. At least she won't be with OM, though it's always possible he followed her to Chicago. He'd be bored though; she's way out in Elgin.

I'm also getting bummed out because every year since we were married we spent the 4th of July at the cabin. This year I have nowhere to go.

GC

I would stay in Plan A a little longer. It is okay to send her a friendly message.

And by the way, good job yesterday. You stood up and kept OM away from your home. Way to go.

But somehow we have to get you out of the "nothing to do" syndrome. That will not attract your wife back. You need to get busy and plan something to do, and get on with your life.

Well I'm a pyro at heart, GC, so if you're in the neighborhood you can come watch me blow stuff up! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I actually worked the fireworks stand for the local chamber this year - and I hear I get a discount! OOOOOH the skies are gonna be lit up in NE! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Stay dark, GC - let her be alone with her thoughts this weekend. IF she reaches out to you - Plan A your butt off....but if she decides to reach out to him instead, let it be. He can't ease her pain - because she's missing what was and he's the reason it isn't right now.

Believer, it's a good warning. Next week I start a swim class. I'm getting a dog. I'm working on some music. Tonight I'm going to try getting back to working on my dissertation.

And my friends have been there for me. Sometimes it's just a little lonely and I feel like I'm twisting in the wind.

GC

you probably know how i'm going to respond but i say when you are in plan A that even though you can have periods of "being dark" that is not really the the point or goal while in plan A, at least that is my humble opinion. From what i can tell plan A is really the best place for you to be right now. as you recall, i have very little contact w/my H as well and you have read what SH has told me about contact. so at this point i would probably send one email while she is in chicago that says something "news worthy" as SH would say. not sure what state you are in but you could mention something about the weather in chicago because you saw on the news that it was going to be hit w/a lot of rain over the next few days. i live in IL and i'm pretty sure that is true <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> i wouldn't say anything about your M, the reason why she is there (work), or anything about what is going on w/you. but again that is JMHO.

have you thought about counseling w/SH? would be worth the investment but i totally understand the cost, believe me i do. if you can't decide whether to say something or not, you should definitely pray on it and then maybe how many replies you get about to say anything or not and then just go w/the majority <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> good luck but don't expect a reply back from her if you decide to send her a message. i'm just trying to give you a heads up and not a discouragement. but remember this is a chipping away process,we can't make them stop the A, and as much and as strategically as we can to not let them forget about us!

prayers to you, RR

came back to write that it is a delicate balance between overwheliming the WS w/communication from us and yet not making them think we don't care, many of us are still striving to find this balance and that's really when SH can help is providing immediate professional feedback specific to your situation.

<small>[ June 28, 2004, 08:56 AM: Message edited by: roughroad ]</small>

Ahhhh yes - if you're still in Plan A then some communication is a good idea. If she seems to pull back, though - then back off.

Gray, you could plan something fun that you can do by yourself, but that she might have enjoyed too. Then give her a call, tell her the plan, maybe say you wish she could be there to enjoy it with you. Say how you always liked spending the 4th with her. Then make sure you say you'll go have a ton of fun even though you'll be missing her. Basically be loving, yet happily independent.

hope4future, NE? Nebraska?

Hello Gray: I haven't been here long, and don't know the whole story. I like your attitude though. I confess that I was like your wife. Eventually, the bloom wears off the rose and I am sure that it will with her as well. It must be so hurtful, but we are all human and have temptations and attractions. Your forgiving nature will help. I am confident that she will be very sad without you and if you are there to catch her, it will work out for you......... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Okay, I just have to chime in here too.

For women, absence does make the heart grow fonder.

For me when my X doesn't call, I think "he hasn't called, he must be having fun. what? fun without me? isn't he attracted to me anymore? blah, blah, blah"

But then again, maybe you should do the opposite of what you did when you were together. Were you attentive and interested in her work trips? Or were you calling her all the time? See what I'm getting at?

(just thought I would try and confuse someone else besides myself today, and I guess you the one)

Yup, Lego, Nebraska. Wanna watch me blow stuff up?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I agree with weaver - for me it was those silent times that made me think of H and what he was up to.

But a good Plan A, even if it isn't a long one, helps the sentimental thoughts to be good ones.

Don't confuse yourself too much, GC - H and I did everything wrong immaginable and still pulled it together. I tell people, there is no way to act that is 100% the wrong way or 100% the right way to be. While she's in the fog, doing the right thing may set her off and doing the wrong thing (like dating???) may bring her back. NOT NOT NOT suggesting doing the wrong thing - just making a point that things aren't as fragile as they may seem.

OM's W met with him this weekend to talk about what they should do to deal with their daughter. Formerly very well-behaved, now she wakes up screaming in the night and has fits all the time. She claws and throws things. They met to talk about it and here's what she told me:

"He hadn't read anything or talked to anyone about her and how to deal with what she was going through. So he had no input except to say that we need to work through it."

She also told me third-hand about a conversation between the sparrow and OM that he described to her:

"They were talking about how much a financial responsibility he is going to have to me and the kids....well that is one thing they are on the right track about."

So there is some pressure, but OM seems almost oblivious. And it almost seems to be pushing them together, rather than apart. He and the sparrow are making plans and talking about their future, and it hurts me incredibly.

I am going to send her an email while she's on the road this week. Here's what it says:

Hi [sparrow],

Did you know Michael Chabon was one of the writers of the new "Spider Man" movie? I wonder if he got his fingerprints on the story at all.

Isn't Elgin where they used to make watches? Maybe still do.

I don't know what you're doing over the weekend, but I think this will be the first July 4th in many years we won't be at the lake. That will make it a hard weekend for me, but I've got some things keeping me busy. I may try to have a little get-together, and I'm starting to look at dogs. You mentioned house improvement last week. I've decided I'll do a few things after all. I'm going to get that kitchen window taken care of, and I'm going to put up the crown in the living room. Help is always welcome. Anyway, wishing you a fine tomorrow, a good rest of the week, and a nice 4th if I don't talk to you.

[GC]

--

Anyway, I'm going to wait until I can make some better weekend plans before I send it, but that's the tone I'm going for I guess. Hope it isn't too breezy. Thanks everybody; today sucks.

GC

Gray -

Sounds like a good note. Try to firm up some plans. You need to have a life.

Sweetie - I am ooolllllddddd, and I am busy all the time. You are young and smart - you can do it!

I think that financial strain is probably the biggest affair breaker. I am curious how many others would agree. I know that it put a huge strain on my ex's relationship with his OW.
Sounds like that is starting to happen here too. In the beginning they tell themselves "it will all work out, after all we will have each other (gag)"
Then reality starts to set in. He will not be able to live on his poetry. And there is only so many times that they will be able to eat Top Ramen before she will remember how good she had it with you. I know today sucks. But the script is still playing out exactly as it was written.
They did not actually think this whole thing through. I am sure she says they did. I can hear it now "I did not make this decision lightly you know."
But they did not sit down with pen and paper and list expenses and discuss how much money they each could bring to the table, etc. I am sure they never actually discussed how much his child support payments would be.
Her living on her own, and facing reality, is going to speed this whole thing along. I am not saying that she only wants his money - but we all now that money problems puts a lot of stress on a relationship. It is hard to be romantic, poetic, etc, when you are worried about how to pay the bills.

Sparrow and I did not have any money for many years. We finally both got through school, found good jobs, paid off the credit card debt we built up during our 20s, and bought a house. We took a long time to gain enough confidence to do that, and it was such an achievement for us. We were beginning to do okay financially.

Now she's throwing it away to be with a man who will have to support an ex-wife and two children. They both make good salaries, and can probably get by okay though. They won't be able to continue living the lives to which they've grown accustomed, but hey, they'll have each other.

My bad mood swing seems to have mellowed. I'm calling a dog breeder in a little bit, and the only problem I can see with getting a dog is I'll need to find somebody to take it out of its crate and walk it once a day. My day is 10 hours long, and that's too long for a dog to be crated. The breeder says no more than 6 hours at a time.

GC

GC,

If you have done a decent to good Plan A, then it is time for Plan B, go dark. Harley maintains that the time to go to plan B is when they are on the fence, you have waited too long in that respect, but right now there seems to be nothing gained by plan A, she is disrespecting you, and you DO NOT want to LB, so go to plan B. Send her the plan B letter which is by the way a love letter, and then let whatever happens happen.

They have much to over come and they ONLY THINK, it is alimony, ex W's, children, AND you. The biggest hurdle will be each other. Neither is exhibiting behavior that engenders trust.

Let them stew in this themselves.

God Bless,

JL

JL, thank you for that suggestion. Coming from you, I have to take it seriously. But I am not ready for plan B. The minute our recovery failed, my wife vanished. And I did not do a superb plan A when she was still here. She *wants* plan B. She has not told me where she's stayed from one night to another. She has not told me where her new place is. She is competing against a pregnant woman with a child, and the best way for her to do that is to act like she's single.

Furthermore, with her having taken herself from my life in such a deliberate way, I've had exactly four occasions to show her an appealing, non-love-busting version of myself. I feel she needs to see this a little more.

I'm not ready to say okay, I'll be waiting if you decide to end this. I'm terrified it will just make it easier for her to forget me. And I'm hesitant to write that letter right now. I feel like it may drive her away. The one short letter I wrote her, she gave to OM. And he KEPT IT! I can't figure out why.

Maybe these are typical excuses for staying in plan A and getting beaten up on, but I keep remembering lostva's story. If one is open to moving into plan B, how does one know when to do it?

GC

When being together is tearing you apart - or when it's only bringing out anger and hostility from her. If things are "ok" that's pretty darn good.

DO NOT make assumptions about how close this or that seems to be making them - or ANYTHING about where their state of mind is. YOU HAVE NO IDEA. Trust me - I've been there. Your lips can say one thing and your head can be swimming with another. Things can turn when you least expect it. Trust me.....

H4F, thank you for all your responses. I'm trying to learn the serenity prayer, but I forget and fall into "fixer" mode easily. I try to take all the information I can get and gauge the situation by interpreting words and actions that I know I'm not supposed to trust. You keep reminding me that this is foolhardy.

I love that word, foolhardy. It's one of the sparrow's words. The irony.

GC

Gray, keep up your good plan A. I think she'll come around eventually and you'll be a better man when she does.

hope4future, I'm in the omaha area and would love to participate in the mayhem if you're anywhere near here. Now if I could figure out how to launch an artillary shell from a spudzuka without killing myself..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> Sorry for the temporary thread-jack Gray. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

<small>[ June 29, 2004, 10:05 AM: Message edited by: legomaniac ]</small>

gray, i would have to disagree w/JL as far as it being time to go to plan B. I think you have the right mindset already of what kind of plan you need to be in. H4F of when it's time to plan B or when it's something you keep thinking about. but that is JMHO and of course should not be taken as gospel. but w/all the time i've spent here and of course my experience in counseling w/SH (always have to throw that in there in hopes it will help someone else too) that most others here would also advise that it's not time for plan B yet.

i wanted to address the email that you drafted to send to you W. i think you have the right idea but if you would allow me i would like to make some suggestions:

#1 "Did you know Michael Chabon was one of the writers of the new "Spider Man" movie? I wonder if he got his fingerprints on the story at all."
This is more for my curiosity but is this because he worked on the first one? Just trying to figure out what this would mean to her.

#2 "Isn't Elgin where they used to make watches? Maybe still do."
You could say “since you are in the Elgin area it just occurred to me that Elgin is where they used to make watches, I wonder if they still do.”

#3 "I don't know what you're doing over the weekend, but I think this will be the first July 4th in many years we won't be at the lake. That will make it a hard weekend for me, but I've got some things keeping me busy. I may try to have a little get-together"
I think this part needs “lots” of work. Try this on for size “As you know that the upcoming weekend is July 4th and it just made me think of all the times we went to the lake and what a good time we had.” (you could probably leave it at that)

#4 "I'm starting to look at dogs. #5 You mentioned house improvement last week. I've decided I'll do a few things after all. I'm going to get that kitchen window taken care of, and I'm going to put up the crown in the living room. #6 Help is always welcome."
Lots of stuff in just this short paragraph. I don’t know about you but I try to spread things around a little, sometimes it’s hard for me to find “legitimate” things to come up w/to make contact w/my H.. I would probably just stick to items 1-3 in this one email and then save the rest for another email or conversation. Of course you could close it w/ “Anyway, wishing you a fine tomorrow, a good rest of the week, and a nice 4th if I don't talk to you.”


As far as items 4-6, you could say in another email or conversation like I said something along the lines of “saw a dog show on TV the other day and made me think about getting a dog” or “saw a dog (type you like) on the street the other day, on the internet, etc. and I’m considering getting one.” For home improvements you could say “after talking to you the other day I have decided to go ahead and make some additional improvements, will let you know how it goes and I may also need your opinion on a few things.”


just my 2cents and hope it helps, prayers to you, RR