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#1152991 06/29/04 10:32 PM
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Having a bad night. I started feeling myself pitch downward during band rehearsal, then I got home and read the latest email from OM's W.

OM has started telling her he wants to have fully shared custody with their daughter, and he is telling her she needs to get a job (she is a SAHM) and put their daughter in day care. He's saying they're going to have to sell their house to pay off debts, all kinds of other stuff... trying to find his way out financially. They are meeting with a mediator this week.

I know this is good in a way, that he's sweating his financial situation and his family situation so much, but it also kills me because I know the sparrow and OM have discussed these financial things, trying to find the easiest way out for him. Trying to make plans.

I'm going to send the sparrow a casual, friendly email tomorrow. I'm not going to let her forget that I exist, even though that's exactly what she's trying to do. I'll remember stories like the lostva post, and I'll try to stay strong, but I'm starting to have more low points this week, and it worries me. I guess if I stay in touch, avoid LBs (I'm getting pretty good at that), and continue to portray a life with me as one of happiness and possibility, it will stand in sharp contrast to the chaos and uncertainty of life with OM.

Sparrow remains silent, as usual. I think she's spending the 4th with OM's family. I pray MIL will not allow her to bring OM to their cabin. I'm sure she won't. But then again, everybody else seems more ready to give up on the possibility of my M surviving than I am. They hear her say, that's it, I'm done, and they believe she means it.

Guess I need to remember her misty eyes looking at me just five nights ago as she said, "It's hard to know what the right thing to do is."

As time passes, I worry more and more though.

GC

#1152992 06/29/04 10:48 PM
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Ughh. This stuff takes me back to my hell several months ago.

My WW had times when she would mist up and seem undicided. I learned, however, as stated here too, to look at what they are doing and not what they are saying.

I'm a hope for the best prepare for the worst kind of guy, but I thought I could surely fix our mess and wouldn't have to split our accounts or tell our children etc. Well my WW now owns a house of her own.

Point is, you and OMW must assume defensive posture with kids and finances. OMW, if she's been out of the workplace any length of time or doesn't handle the finances, must be terrified. Find a good lawyer and put her in touch with him/her. Get her to post here if she's open to that.

Prepare for the possibility they will each leave and end up together, then anything else will be a pleasant suprise.

This stuff gives me flashbacks.

#1152993 06/29/04 10:55 PM
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Graycloud

Sorry to hear you're having a bad night. I think it's a good idea that you stay in contact with your, as you say, Sparrow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Don't let her forget you're there, be as positive as possible and let her see that things can be good between you two if she's willing to give it a chance.

I know I probably haven't been much help to you but, I hope that knowing that there are people out here who are listening and trying to be supportive will help you get through some of this.

Just keep the faith and remember that God works in mysterious ways.

#1152994 06/29/04 11:37 PM
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It's always darkest before the dawn - isn't that what they say??

Two weeks - Graycloud - we were seperated for a year (lived through a year of the indecision rollercoaster together before that) and two weeks away from the divorce being finalized. I told everyone we would never be together - I was SURE of my decision, yadda yadda yadda. No one had a clue I was still wrestling with things. Not a clue. My best and closest friend was shocked - and thrilled - when I called her to find out 'what's next' when we decided to cut the cr@p and make this thing work!

You can't sweat the 'what if's', gray. Because you have NO IDEA what's around the next bend - both good and bad. Take today for what it's worth - and make the best of it. I know you miss her - and I think she'll probably be back - but even if she's gone for good, there is so much more out there and plenty of good people like you who are hurting and would LOVE to have a faithful spouse who knows what marriage vows are about.

#1152995 06/30/04 06:44 AM
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Oof, there you go again, H4F, reminding me all I can do is keep up my best efforts, hope for the best, not get discouraged, and remember that I'll probably find love again in the end.

God some of these canyons are harsh.

GC

#1152996 06/30/04 07:46 AM
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Have you let their work know about the affair? That might help.

But all his problems can only be good for you. Wait until he figures out how much all of this is going to cost.

#1152997 06/30/04 08:04 AM
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Thanks, believer. He is obviously starting to worry. He told his W that he can't support two households on his income. Should have thought of that before you started chasing my W, dude.

His W has a mountain of evidence. Postmarked love letters from the sparrow, emails, the whole nine yards. Even though we're in a no-fault state, her L tells her this stuff will be very much in her favor.

The sparrow and OM don't work together any more. He went to work someplace else just as it was starting, but not because of the A. I don't know what sparrow has told her boss. If I informed her about the A she might think I was being spiteful and tell my wife.

I've been tempted many times to send an email to everybody at W's office (it's a pretty small company) exposing the A. But that would really sabotage her reputation at work. It would just be malicious. Of course, it would give her a much-deserved dose of reality as well.

GC

#1152998 06/30/04 08:06 AM
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Hi GC,

I'm sorry to hear about the OMW.I hope she can get a lawyer to help fight for her rights even though the OM is trying to free up some cash to fuel his adultery.Mediators are a great way to start(I have one myself) BUT she will still need a lawyer to make sure she doesn't get taken by her philandering husband.Whatever barriers she can put up will hopefully help stem the urgency of your WW and OM getting together.Finances is always a good one.And,if she jointly owns the home,she has rights to that too.

Anyway,nothing of what you mentioned is unique.Another chapter in the sordid drama coming up is all.You take care of yourself and be strong.Hang in there.It's not over till it's over and the signatures are on that D decree right? Until the very last.

O

#1152999 06/30/04 08:09 AM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong> I've been tempted many times to send an email to everybody at W's office (it's a pretty small company) exposing the A. But that would really sabotage her reputation at work. It would just be malicious. Of course, it would give her a much-deserved dose of reality as well.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've thought of doing this as well... I asked SH what he thought, and he said not to do it, that it would just be a huge LB. It's so tempting though...

#1153000 06/30/04 08:14 AM
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these canyons as you say in this rough road are harsh and sometimes lurk when you are coming around the bend in this marathon (enough analogies for you?)

it's a very delicate and difficult balance in trying to make them not forget about you, not enabling the A, putting on a good face, and not being needy, try to meet their needs, forget about your needs, and bein the best person you can.

you could even post things here of things you think about sending and we could give you suggestions. again, what SH is to initiate contact about things that the WS might find funny like a joke, or something that they would find ineteresting, or something newsworthy. don't overwhelm just make things short and sweet, nothing too mushy. this will also help you to save energy because you will need to do this for a long time. like i said, it's a race but it's a marathon not a sprint. i would probably go as far to say don't remind her of anything that has happened between you in the last year because maybe that's when she started being "unhappy" and it will only remind her of her "need" to keep herself "happy." does that make sense?

in other words, i can't bring up anything that has happened in our M over the last 4 years because that is when we started having trouble. even though we have had some good times in between, it's still a general period of what my H would probably consider the downfall of his "happiness," our M, my neglecting his needs etc.

i'm going to only get to see my H for about 5 hours the whole time i'm at our house. i talked to him a little bit more last night. it just is truly so sad that out of the time we have been together and that i haven't seen him in over 3 months and that 5 hours is the best he can do for me. very sad. but i asked God to forgive me for my bitterness about that and i just have to use this really small opportunity to show him my changes and hope that it will soften his heart just a little bit more if at all.

continued STRENGTH and prayers to you, RR

#1153001 06/30/04 08:40 AM
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So I guess I'll try and get my "happy 4th of July" email "vetted" here. RR, thanks for reminding me not to give it all away at once. How's this:

Hi [sparrow],

Did you know Michael Chabon was one of the writers of the new "Spider Man" movie? I wonder if he got his fingerprints on the story at all. I don't think he worked on the first one.

Since you're in Elgin... didn't they used to make watches there? Maybe they still do. Maybe there's a watch museum!

As the 4th approaches I'm remembering all the times we've spent this holiday at the lake together. I have a few cool things planned for the weekend, but nothing too outrageous. Maybe a cookout on Sunday, some beer and seafood. Anyway, wishing you a fine tomorrow, a good rest of the week, and a nice weekend if I don't talk to you.

[Gray]

#1153002 06/30/04 09:00 AM
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Much much better and it's in YOUR words. it looks as if you got the idea of what i was trying to say. i say go for it and send the newly revised email.

you could even keep a notebook of things that you see or think of that you may could use in these ways as a form of contact. it could be just about anything. i was in the pet store on monday buying some crickets for my landlord's lizard and was looking at all the animals and when i saw the frogs it made me think of something i could share w/my h that would be along the lines of what SH would recommend. so i just kind of made a mental note of it to use in the future. like i said though looks like you get the idea <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

let us know if she replies, if she doens't don't sweat it. the WS are incapable of meeting our needs right now and of caring about us the way a husband and wife should. just remember this (the email and things like it) is something you have to do in this "chipping away" process, that it just reinforces that you are an attractive person, one that she will want to be with and that your home (the marriage) is one that is attractive, safe, and inviting for her, something she will want to come back to, eventually.

keep the faith, stay the course, prayers to you, RR

#1153003 06/30/04 12:29 PM
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My 2 cents worth - and I know others would disagree - you REALLY need to consider plan B. Someone who used to post frequently, who has not posted in awhile, used to say that plan B is for YOUR benefit - to protect the last remaining love you have for your spouse.
Plan A works well when they are still on the fence, and can not decide. She has decided. She needs the full force of the OM - which she is going to get if you don't meet any of her emotional needs.
OM and his wife will be in a huge battle for the next 6 months over finances and the best thing she can do is talk to her lawyer.
When my ex and his ow first split, he said it was becuase her D was dragging out too long, and put a huge strain on their R. She was constantly fighting with her H about every little detail, kept wanting more money (she expected to continue to live in the same lifestyle she had with her H - that is not reality). her frustrations with her H caused her to be in a constant foul mood, so she and my WH began fighting all the time.
Can you see where the sparrows relationship with her OM is headed??? He will be pissed foced to pay child support - and pissed at his wife, and he will be in a constant foul modd. Not very romantic.
Here is why I believe you need to consider plan
B- the more you see her, the more you talk to her, and she continues to reject you, the more you will lose your love for her. You will start to say things like "I don't need this crap" and "she had it good with me - now she can jsut suffer with OM"
I know.
Look at my signature - I am D now.
I reached the point where it made me sick to look at him - and I knew it was time for me to file. In the end - I filed.
I knew he would eventually wake up. And he did. But I have nothing left for him.
Just yesterday he told me that the OW was not what he thought she was - that it turns out he had it good - and this was all his fault. I appreciate those words now - but I can't bring myself to try and reconcile with him.
I honestly think that if I had done a good plan B I could have held onto some of the love, and we may be able to start recovery. I know it would be best for my boys - but I don't even like him anymore.
It has been exactly 1 year since he left. The whole thing played out in 1 year. And he did all the same things your sparrow is doing. They talked finances - they moved in together - they each saw an attorney. I used to get emails from OW's H, just like you are, telling me about their latest fights, and I would panic. BUT - they are not togther anymore. In the beginning they insisted they would be together forever. OW demanded that her H put the house up for sale immediately so she could have the cash. His lawyer said forget it - house doesn't go up for sale until after the D. This has been going on for a year. They are still fighting in court - house still hasn't sold - and OW is now filing bankruptcy. They can say whatever they want to - that doesn't mean it is going to happen. OM's should not worry too much about what he says he wants to do - sell the house and pay off bills. her attorney will take care of her. All she has to do is say this:
I am afraid I can not talk to you about any of that stuff right now (selling house, paying off bills, etc) It is just too emotional for me. I need to take the emotion out of this for me - so my attorney will be the one to handle those things. I am sure you can undertand that.
One last point - a good plan B letter spells out the path way home. She needs to know that if she wants to come hoe - you will let her - but only after she agress to NC.
Just my opinion - but please give it some thought.
I need to get back to work - but later today I will paste a couple of my recent emails here from my EX that I have received in the past couple of days. Remember - only 2 months ago this man told me he would "hate me forever" and he said that the D was all my fault becuase I was such a bad wife. If I had been a better wife - he would not have been forced to have an A and he wouldn't have to leave. He has certainly changed his tune recently. it is very sad.

#1153004 06/30/04 12:50 PM
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WoF5, I am seriously considering plan B. It's still early in this process. I don't feel that my love is going away, but I do worry I might get caught off-guard and suddenly find it is lost. Plan B scares me. I don't know if I've done enough of a good plan A to give it up. I keep wanting to make more deposits into the bank before I disappear.

The sparrow went from living with me in what was supposed to be a state of recovery to wanting a D in four days. I had no chance to deal with any kind of fence sitting. She blew me right out of the water. That was barely a month after the A began. So here I am just over two months into this and already talking plan B. It's too fast. My heart can't keep up.

GC

#1153005 06/30/04 02:56 PM
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GC, Plan B is ULTIMATLY to protect YOU. So if you're not feeling the need for that yet (and I think you're still fine for a little while) then go ahead and try to continue as much of a Plan A as you can.

But again, in our situation there was no Plan A or Plan B - we didn't find MB until AFTER we were already back together. My husband DID NOT do a good job of anything close to a Plan A - and yet when he started detaching and moving on, I noticed. I think that the MB method works fantastically - you aren't the first to be scared silly about Plan B. But it works - even after a lousy Plan A.

#1153006 06/30/04 03:02 PM
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I think I'm beginning to agree with the plan B also in Gray's case. Maybe pull the rug out from under her and let her face the fact that she doesn't have Grey anymore, just the nutty S##thead she is messing around with. If that doesn't give her a dose of reality...

She knows what a good guy you are, she was married to you for 10 years, she knows you love her and if you aren't there for her anymore it might make a huge impression, if you know what I mean.

Weaver

#1153007 06/30/04 04:30 PM
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Graycloud,

i was thinking about that email.

Too chatty, I think. I would see right through it, if I was her.

I would keep it short, and a vague invitation...

Like,

" Hi Sparrow, I will be out at the lake for a couple of days, if you want me. Anyway, wishing you a fine tomorrow, a good rest of the week, and a nice weekend if I don't talk to you."

I think she will start thinking about how nice it was there with you, and how much she misses it...

Shul


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