Things are really heating up here in New England! WH told OW he wanted to "cool it" last week. We went on a trip that SHE was supposed to go on with him, and she's been pissed off ever since and is pretty much done with him I think (about time). She was particularly upset that we had SF.

He has still been calling her, but the end is near I can feel it. She really wants him to leave me, and I guess she's become whiny about that (she's M with ni intention to D...what a crazy mixed up foggy world we live in). He told her no one is going to make him do anything.

So, now he is pissed off at me, throwing a D threat in my face today. We've been discussing it, but had just decided over the weekend that we would stick it out. Very confused chap, this WH.

I know he is crashing and burning and hurting inside. He refuses to resume a M similar to before this whole raunchy mess. He doesn't believe we can make it through.

Is this withdrawal fogtalk or is it the real thing?? My gut tells me to ignore it.

I ask him to delay any decision until he feels a little better, but then he gets upset that "nothing I say really matters, you are just going to twist it to your advantage".

So, here's more crap to complicate everything...he just accepted a better job out of state. He's starting in 1-1/2 weeks. He has no where to stay there and plans on camping for a little while at least. On the aforementioned trip, we had already discussed and agreed on trying out the job first, and then moving the family there later (get house ready, I keep kids, he comes home on weekends, I'd have to find work, etc.).

Well, today he changes his tune. He wants a D and cannot handle all of this mess. He feels single right now, since the kids have been with my parents for 2-1/2 weeks (I went home last weekend for this trip). He misses the kids, but feels like he's stuck with visitation as it is.

Then the R and M talk was all bad. It's as if we've never been happy for a single day...between the guilt he feels (first time he's EVER said those words since the beginning of this crap), and the fallout from family, and how I am too controlling, and how things just feel so uncomfortable between us. This does not sound hopeful at this moment.

I don't want to give up, but the new job/moving thing has pushed me over the edge. Now I will have to be a single mom during the week (and probably some weekends). I'll be ending maternity leave Aug 1st. Then , getting the house ready and school will be starting...I can hardly get a shower some days, let alone do the work of an entire household!

Now, he doesn't know if we should move with him, blah blah blah...D talk, blah blah blah...

Any thoughts out there?

Dear WhatAmIDoing,
I can only imagine what you must be going through, with four little children to take care of, well let's say five, your H is not in a very "mature" state right now.
Yes is a LOT OF FOG talking! All of this. He feels guilty.. is reminded of that guilt whenever he's around you and the kids... so he tries to "escape" by wanting to be "single" again.
If you have read a lot on these boards you'll know this fog makes you say all these things, it's like a depression. He really feels that now but when the fog lifts he will not be able to imagine how he could ever have thought these thougths and have those feelings.

I guess MB gives great advice here of how to handle the situation. I don't know if you have done a plan A or B? As I have never been in your situation (A ended as soon as I found out about it and H never left or wanted to leave) I'm afraid I can't give you any advise on that, but I'm sure there are many others here that can.

Good luck to you my dear.

This is absolutely fogtalk. Although the circumstances are different, my husband says exactly the same things [and blames me for teh breakup of his affair (which he admitted was dying a natural death before I came back)].

My advice is just to hang in there and PlanA you heart out. He is hurt and confused at the moment. Just be the best you can be for him. I know this must be so hard when you have small baby. You need all the love and support you can get and he is simply not there for you. You must feel so upset and angry.

Just bear in mind that he is in the fog and cannot see clearly the hurt and pain that he is causing.

Post here, vent here, shout at us. We can take it and we do understand.

I think that you need to be thinking in terms of moving where your husbands new job is as soon as possible in order to do an effective PlanA. It seems sensible to give it a little time for him to settle first.Just make sure that when he comes on weekends everything is as best it can be.

A word of warning. Having a baby and moving home are 2 of the most stressful things that can happen in your life. You ahve your husbands betrayal and fog to deal with ontop of this. You are a prime subject for major depression. Make sure you get medication from your doctor.

Another things u can do is to start throwing out clutter in preparation for your move so that, if and when it happens, it is as stressfree as possible. www.flylady.com have some great ideas for this if it is appropriate to your circumstances.

Flylady will also help you to establish routines to help your get through your day and keep your home in order at this difficult time when its as much as u can do to get in the shower. I know that feeling. I really cant give enough praise to this site which has helped me to have much more orderly home so at least SOMETHING in my life is working properly (or getting there, in babysteps!). The only word of warning is that if you decide to sign up for the emails opt for the once a day option or else you will get about 20 emails a day telling you what to do:) I find the emails very inspiring.

Hope this has been of some help.

Love
Debra

<small>[ July 01, 2004, 02:48 AM: Message edited by: Debbra ]</small>

"but then he gets upset that "nothing I say really matters, you are just going to twist it to your advantage". My H has said these EXACT words. I don't "twist" anything, everything I have ever said about his affair was true. He uses that as a way of being defensive and ending any conversation about his affair. "Nothing I say matters" really means "I am not going to say anything about it. I'd rather just sweep it under the rug and let you suffer in silence then to have to deal with it. My feelings matter more than yours do"

Have you heard this one? "you take everything I say and make it what you WANT it to be". EXCUSE ME? I "want" to feel insecure, not good enough, unloved and unwanted? I WANT to be emotionally abused? I WANT to see the man I have loved for 25 years with another woman in my head night after night? NO I didn't want this. I would give almost anything not to have lived it. I also don't WANT to ignore it until it happens again. That is pretty much what we are doing though. He isn't going to go through anything for me. He isn't going to talk about it or listen to me talk about it. I'm not worth going through anything like that to him. If I want to be with him I have to keep my mouth shut and pretend that there is no white elephant in our living room. I have to live by his rules, he has all the power because he and I both know that I love him much more than he does me. If we divorced tomorrow he wouldn't be too hurt by that. I guess I can take some comfort in the knowledge that no one is really worth much to him, so it's not just me. Although he does treat his girlfriends better than he does me.

<small>[ July 01, 2004, 05:17 AM: Message edited by: toomanylies ]</small>

I'm already on anti-anxiety med, AD's don't sit well in my stomach (I literally stop eating). I can hardly eat as it is, so the AA med takes some of the edge off.

My self -confidence has been shot to sh*t by all of this. I can't stand change, so my brain is totally fried by all of this. Even if we don't go with him eventually, we'll move to be closer to my family support.

How can I Plan A well from a distance? I'll be beat by the weekend after having the kids 24/7 during the week. I really resent the fact that he took this job. I mean, could the timing be much worse?

He wants to give up on all relationships right now. It's so bizarre that the woe-is-me-it's really -your-fault script is identical to many WS. Freaks me out! I am trying to take some comfort in that. When will this fog lift?

WhatamIdoing,

He refuses to resume a M similar to before this whole raunchy mess.

This is fantastic! Who in their right mind would want to go back to the M that led up to *this* nightmare? When he says that, agree with him. Tell him you want a *better* M - with him.


Is this withdrawal fogtalk or is it the real thing?? My gut tells me to ignore it.

Your gut would be right. He is crashing and beginning to feel pain and guilt and embarrassment. What do folks do when they're supremely hurt and embarrassed? They lash out, with a vengeance. He's waking up.

So, here's more crap to complicate everything...he just accepted a better job out of state. He's starting in 1-1/2 weeks. He has no where to stay there and plans on camping for a little while at least. On the aforementioned trip, we had already discussed and agreed on trying out the job first, and then moving the family there later (get house ready, I keep kids, he comes home on weekends, I'd have to find work, etc.).

So you'd already POJA'd the new job and now you're not okay with it? Maybe I misunderstood. Maybe the problem is that you POJA'd and now he is breaking the POJA:

Well, today he changes his tune. He wants a D

I'd not give too much creedence to this. He's freaking out and he's overwhelmed. He'll probably bounce around a lot. He's realizing what a mess things are and how much work is going to be involved in fixing it. Inertia is on your side, however. You're already M'd and talking to one another, and filing for D takes energy. My guess is he'll squawk a lot but won't actually act.

Then the R and M talk was all bad. It's as if we've never been happy for a single day...between the guilt he feels (first time he's EVER said those words since the beginning of this crap), and the fallout from family, and how I am too controlling, and how things just feel so uncomfortable between us. This does not sound hopeful at this moment.

"Never being happy for a single day" is revisionist history hanging on. Ignore it.

Guilty - YES! A ray of truth has broken through to him.

You are too controlling - pay attention to this. Maybe you typically are, in which case you need to work on that. Maybe he just feels that way right now, in which case you need to be especially careful to avoid anything that could be interpreted as controlling. In either case, this is a big gift - you've been given a bit of "instruction manual" on how to avoid messing things up.

I don't want to give up, but the new job/moving thing has pushed me over the edge.

But you and he agreed to that, right?

Turtlehead and others:

I thought that we POJA'd pretty well. I'd move with him, but now he's singing a different song! Of course, I would REALLY like to erase this whole thing and resume our normal life! But I think that a move is the only way for him to wake up. Moving just sucks and I'm whining a little, sorry! I usually am the "mission control" for the household, so moving would fall mostly in my hands.

But, why waste my precious energy on moving if he doesn't want us to go? I will check out that website, thank you debra, on household organization. If I'm goping to be alone alot, I'd best be more organized!

Alone...that is going to be supertough on me. I like to talk, EN communication is huge with me. Unfortunately, WH sucks at meeting this need on a good day, so now we'll be separated and it will be even worse! There's only so many times you can call people to talk to, you know? I will miss him horribly when he goes. Moving with him must happen or I fear the worst.

Shameless bump!

Need support...

Venting...venting...venting

Called him at bedtime. I am trying to decide whether to head home with the kids so that he can spend the week with them before he moves to new job. I feel sick thinking of him moving away from us and cannot bear to tell the kids yet. They are going to be so affected by all of this, I feel like I wanna die! He thinks I am keeping the kids from him. That's all he talks about. Blah blah blah

He's still in contact with OW, "tying up loose ends" he says. I will not return to that environment, I can't! The kids miss him, darnit, so am I being horrible by staying away?

He had a chip on his shoulder as sson as I called. I annoy him, he says. I freaking hate his guts sometimes...most of the time lately. Ahhh, a D sounds awfully inviting right about now...

Heading back with kids tomorrow. Why do I have a knot in my stomach just thinking about going home? I think that the fogtalk has peaked and he still is blabbering about a D.

He'll be moving to Maine soon. I need to get my life on a schedule soon! The baby doesn't even take a bottle yet!