I am unhappily married and unfortunately had an affair with a coworker who is also unhappily married. But his wife found out and now they are in counseling. My husband does not know. I know it is the counselor's job to try to make a marriage work. But if the love for the spouse is not there, why stay married when you are in love with someone else? It's not the end of the world. And who's to say the lover isn't your true love that you've been waiting for? Mistakes do happen, and marrying the wrong person also happens. I don't see the point in trying to make it work if it doesn't. If you are with the right person, then the marriage works without help. You can't make someone love their spouse if the love is gone. I do plan to see a counselor, but I'm just wondering at what point does a counselor actually believe a marriage really has no hope? I personally believe that with or without my lover, I still would not be in love with my husband. That's how I got myself in this position to begin with. And a marriage without love is just a roommate. Please give me some insight and correct me if I'm wrong about the whole situation.

kdm:

You're wrong about the whole situation. There, did that help? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Didn't think so. All kidding aside, let me comment on what you've said here, because you sound a lot like my wife.

"I am unhappily married and unfortunately had an affair with a coworker who is also unhappily married."

Unfortunately? Affairs don't happen "by accident" or "just happen." They're choices. Harmful choices.

"But his wife found out and now they are in counseling."

Good for them.

"My husband does not know."

Bad for him. And you. You need to tell him.

"I know it is the counselor's job to try to make a marriage work."

No, it isn't. It's yours and your husband's. The counselor can help you explore avenues you might not think of on your own, but they can't make your marriage work. That's your job.

"But if the love for the spouse is not there, why stay married when you are in love with someone else?"

How did you manage to fall in love with someone else while you were married? And the right thing to do, if that's what you did, would have been to divorce your husband before even letting the other man know you were interested in him. Don't live a double life. It's unhealthy.

"It's not the end of the world."

No, but it will seem like it to your husband. Think about that. Most experts will tell you that having an affair is the cruelest, most selfish thing you can do to your spouse.

"And who's to say the lover isn't your true love that you've been waiting for?"

There IS NO SUCH THING. And consider this: Is it possible that your 'true love' can be a liar and a cheat? And is it 'true love' if you've become a liar and a cheat yourself in the process of having this illicit relationship?

"Mistakes do happen, and marrying the wrong person also happens."

Mistakes happen because we make poor choices. How can you know you've married the wrong person if your affections are divided? Most WS (wayward spouses) will say that they married the wrong person, even if they've been married a long time. My wife is one of those, and we've been married 28 1/2 years. Being happily married isn't FINDING the "right person" it's BEING the right person.

"I don't see the point in trying to make it work if it doesn't."

Trust me: If you believe that it won't work, no matter how hard you believe you are trying to save your marriage, it WON'T work so long as you are continuing in the affair.

"If you are with the right person, then the marriage works without help."

This is absurd. You only need look up references on long-term marriages, or just go to the main page here and read the articles, to know this isn't true. Marriage is a lot of work.

"You can't make someone love their spouse if the love is gone."

I don't believe it is your responsibility to "make" your husband love you anymore than it is his to make you love him. LOVE him anyway. Love is a choice. Affairs are based on primal infatuations, not love. Love wouldn't allow you to break up the other man's family.

"I do plan to see a counselor, but I'm just wondering at what point does a counselor actually believe a marriage really has no hope?"

It would be unethical for any counselor to tell you that your marriage has no hope. Unfortunately, they're out there. More insidious in many ways, are counselors, like my wife's, who are "neutral" regarding marriage. They're neither for or against your marriage, they are there to help YOU. I would urge you to go to the "councel" tab at the top of this page, read the articles there on selecting a counselor, and consider calling one of the Harleys for counseling.

"I personally believe that with or without my lover, I still would not be in love with my husband."

This is also a common statement. But how will you ever know, now that you're having an affair? Fact is, you never will, until you end it for life.

"That's how I got myself in this position to begin with."

No, you got yourself into this position because you made a poor choice and acted out of selfishness.

"And a marriage without love is just a roommate."

Yes, perhaps it is. But a marriage without love and an affair on the side because you don't have the courage to address the shortcomings in your marriage is cowardice and selfishness. Please get help.

best,
-Qfwfq

Wow Q, you nailed it!!

KD, I was a WS and I thought and said all the things you just wrote. It pains me to admit that - because like Q said, I was WRONG WRONG WRONG.

I hope you'll take the time to read and learn a bit more about relationships and marriage.

Your assumptions - while normal - are incredibly misguided and unrealistic. I have an incredibly happy marriage now - and it's with the very man I insisted I could not and would not ever love 'that way'. We were almost divorced...I was that sure. And I was wrong - and so are you.

Take care!

Kdmussel,

I just want to confirm and ego what both Qfwfq and hope4future have said. Please listen to them.

There is only one thing I want to add:

You asked why staying married to your H? Well, the answer is real simple… It’s also because of the MARRIAGE VOWS you have made to your H and to God in front of the altar…

It’s also clear that you’re confusing “in love” feelings & infatuation with real/true love. This thread will give you a better understanding of the differences between real/true love, romantic love and feelings of love. Please read it. I hope it will help! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Blessings,
Suzet

<small>[ July 01, 2004, 02:16 AM: Message edited by: Suzet* ]</small>

I think your question is really "Why does MM stay married to his wife" I don't think you are thinking about your own marriage at all right now. You are just upset that your affair partner chose to stay with his wife when she discovered the affair. There's a pretty good chance that he wasn't nearly as unhappy in his marriage as he led you to believe. This may come as a shock to you but adulterers LIE! They lie to their spouse, to their OP and to themselves.

Leave this man alone. Stop thinking of yourself as his one true love (you aren't) and stop thinking of him as your one true love. He is a married man who after doing something very wrong, has chosen to try and make it right.

I love what Qfwfq said "Love wouldn't allow you to break up the other man's family" so true! Think of the people you genuinely love.. your sister, brother, son, daughter, mother, father? Would you destroy their families?

I want to ditto what the others have said. You're basing everything you said on a wrong assumption:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you are with the right person, then the marriage works without help. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is not right. When problems come in a marriage, and they always do, and one spouse begins considering looking around elsewere they attempt to rethink and rewrite their own history. They will look back at the marriage from the beginning and say that it was flawed from the beginning. Newsflash > they are all flawed from the beginning, because we as people are all flawed from the beginning!!!

All marriages take work. That's just the truth. And someone has already mentioned this, but, you took some vows, a covenant between your spouse and God to remain faithful through sickness, health, better and worse.

My advice is to go get some counseling and really work at this thing. You can make it awesome again.

I think your very first question should have been.....why stay married if I'm unhappy?


Did or does your H know you are or were unhappy?

Did you ever wonder why your OM is going to counseling if he has absolutely no love left for his W?

It may not be the end of your world.....but it sure feels like it to the BS when they find out.
I would much rather have had my H come to me and say that he was unhappy and wanted out rather than to tell me that he wanted out and there was someone else.

Who's to say your lover IS the person you are supposed to be with? You have the same feelings for him that you had for your H in the beginning, and now you are unhappy with your H.

Marriage doesn't work without help if you are with the right personor the wrong person. It's kinda like a job....if you don't put forth the effort....you don't advance.

You CANNOT make someone love someone else.....but if the love was there at one time....then why can't it be there again? Love is a choice.....just as hate is.

IMHO.....you are going to go into counseling wanting the counselor to tell you that it's ok to call it quits. You want someone else to tell you that it's ok. IMHO....you had an A to help you "exit" your marriage.

Can you honestly say that YOU put in 110% to make your marriage work?

You didn't get yourself into this mess because you don't love your H. YOU and YOU alone allowed yourself to get into this mess. Your H is to blame for his part in the destruction of the marriage.....but NOTHING to do with you having an affair.

If you think that marriage without love is just a roomate....then why haven't you "gotten out" yet....or even before you had the A?

Please don't take anything I say the wrong way.....I'm just wondering.....if there isn't anything left for your H....then why are you still there?

Also....if you go into counseling thinking that it won't work....then it won't. If you don't put forth an effort....then there will be no results.

Do you know why you were unhappy in your marriage in the first place? That is where you should begin.

I have really noticed alot of WW on here lately,,
and the more new WW's I see post here the more lucky I feel with my own situation.
KD,,, As with my marriage I believe your marriage fell into the auto pilot mode. All you know is that your married but you and your husband have not chosen a stron loving marriage. I fell into this mode,,, my wife chose to have an affair, IT HAS CRUSHED ME! My wife has even said she could not believe how bad she has hurt me. Your husband is me 4 months ago. He is not meeting your needs anymore so you chose an affair. Your husband has still not met your needs but the OM has. This is what is referred to as False love. Tell your husband about your lover,,, I promise you will find out he loves you.
Not once has my wife ever said she does not love me,,,it may have felt like she did not during her affair because The OM was meeting her most basic emotional needs. You have not given your husband a chance to meet those needs, like they say you took the easy way.
At least he deserves to know you are unhappy in your marriage. If he was not a man you could love then you would not have ever made it to the alter. He is the man you love,,, your marriage is just going through what tons of marriages go through.
What will you base your relationship with the OM on? You both committed adultery to be together. Not a very strong building block.
You will allways know he was able to betray his wife for you, and he will allways know you betrayed your husband for him, security is ot the window from the get go.
Make it right tell your husband reach out to your husband he does love you. If you try to rebuild your marriage you will see that you love him as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Qfwfq:
<strong> "Mistakes do happen, and marrying the wrong person also happens."

Mistakes happen because we make poor choices. How can you know you've married the wrong person if your affections are divided? Most WS (wayward spouses) will say that they married the wrong person, even if they've been married a long time.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know Marriage Builders is basically built on the concept that all marriages are sacred and can be saved. But you know what? That's simply not true. I am not saying I think that is the case with kdmussel, but her point is valid. People make mistakes and marry the wrong person every day. Sometimes, the best option for both people is to end it. Doesn't make it any easier on either one, but in the long run they are better off. Having said that, I believe you won't know for sure unless you do try to work on your problems, but ultimately, some marriages were not meant to be.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My wife is one of those, and we've been married 28 1/2 years. Being happily married isn't FINDING the "right person" it's BEING the right person.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, if it were only that simple. So, if I could be the right person, I could be married to anybody, is that it? Sorry, but again, simply not true. There are people we will fall in love with despite our intentions or whether or not they are good for us. There are also people we will never love, no matter how good they may be for us, or how much they love us. However, I would agree that once you are with the right person, making it work depends in large part about being the best person you can be, and working on your problems as a couple and as an individual. Having the right partner also means being with someone who strives to be the best they can be, because no matter what you do, it takes two to tango. All marriages have ups and downs and all marriages have problems that need to be overcome. But simply "being" the right person will not solve your problems if you are not with the right person.
Eric

<small>[ July 01, 2004, 11:00 AM: Message edited by: EricM ]</small>

I know Marriage Builders is basically built on the concept that all marriages are sacred and can be saved.

well that's not true at all...lots of marriages can not and should not be saved....
this site is built on the concept that when people have affairs...their final decision or desire is to try to fix the marriage...and that's what this site is about...

and vows are the sacred part of marriage...
the forsaking all others...
cherishing etc...

because no matter how crappy or lonely the marriage an affair will never ever fix or address the core issues....

ever

There are people we will fall in love with despite our intentions or whether or not they are good for us.

people don't fall in to love...
they act out love in actions..it is not some cosmic occurance out of their control...
same bodes true for the misnomer of falling out of love...

people don't fall out love...they can and often do withdraw loving behavior...


kdmuss said..

If you are with the right person, then the marriage works without help.

which is just so untrue it's hard to believe that she really believes that...

marriage is not an entity outside of our actions...
marriage is exactly what we create it to be...

when one acts anything and everything BUT loving and then claims not to love their spouse...it makes you wonder which part of that is NOT illogical to them....

ark

Your raise some interesting points.

What is love? If you have it can you lose it? If it can be lost was it ever really, truly, love? If you can lose it, can it be recovered?

I believe that love isn’t just infatuation. It can start that way, but it usually is a little deeper than that. Being in-love to me starts in an emotional state, the butterflies in your stomach, the aching you feel when you two are parted. The raw passion of a new relationship. Those are the feeling I equate with being in-love. I guess you could say that you can feel similar things when you simply are infatuated. The difference to me is that when you are truly in-love with someone you also love them too.

But to love someone, what does that mean? How can it be defined? Some would say that you love someone when you are willing to put your own self-interests on hold for the benefit of another. When you love someone you make decisions that will be of benefit to the other person. You begin to stop acting out of simple self-interest. Look at the way a parent will sacrifice for a child. The parent loves that child.

Infatuation is the in-love feelings with out the love of the person. That is why it is ephemeral. The feelings are easy to lose because the commitment to the best interest of the other person are not there.

Should all marriages be saved? Nope. I know people that are horrible couples. Individually, they are engaging and enjoyable to be around: together they are a disaster. They treat each other with contempt. They do not respect or care for each other. I think they would both be better off if they split. They do not love each other,at least not in the way that I have defined it.

I don’t buy the whole true-love thing. We are all programmed to seek those in-love/infatuation feelings. We can feel it with may people. I don’t believe in the Cinderella soul-mate thing either.

A marriage without love isn’t a roommate, it is an abomination. You really can’t have a marriage without love: i.e. where decisions are made to care for your spouse. The in-love feelings do come and go. If you lose them they can be recovered. To me that is the purpose of this site. To help people to find their way back to their spouses.

Sometimes I don’t feel in-love with my wife. Sometimes, just hearing her voice makes me want to scream. But one thing that I do know is that I love her. I care what happens to her and I will do my best to care for her and us as a family. I know that sometimes my wife doesn’t feel in-love with me either. I do know, however, that if I am sick, if I trip and fall, if I lose my job, if I become paralyzed, if I lose my hair, become fat, fall mentally ill, etc. she will be there to pick up the weight that I can no longer carry, and help me along. I know that she will care for me and I know that she knows that I will do the same for her. Maybe that really isn’t love, but it is good enough for me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ark^^:
<strong> well that's not true at all...lots of marriages can not and should not be saved....
this site is built on the concept that when people have affairs...their final decision or desire is to try to fix the marriage...and that's what this site is about...

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ark,
actually, MB is not built around the affair issue. It is a big issue, but MB principles apply to marriages that have not suffered an A just as they do that have suffered an A.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> people don't fall in to love...
they act out love in actions..it is not some cosmic occurance out of their control...
same bodes true for the misnomer of falling out of love...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would agree with that. However, the vast majority of people do not act out love in actions until they have "fallen" in love with someone romantically (can we say infatuation). Even once the infatuation is gone, you can act out love all you want, there will always need to be a spark, chemistry, attraction, however you want to put it. Absent a spark, chemistry, attraction, however you want to put it, I think realistically it becomes very difficult to continue to act in a loving manner. So I think often the withdrawel of loving behavior, as you put it, originates in the loss of feeling (or spark, chemistry, attraction, however you look at it). You can choose to act loving all you want, but if the feeling is not there, its not there. Sometimes you can get it back, sometimes you cannot


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you are with the right person, then the marriage works without help.
which is just so untrue it's hard to believe that she really believes that...
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Here I totally agree. Anyone who thinks if you marry the right person, your marriage will sail along without any grey skies, is kidding themselves. Marriage, even to the perfect partner, will take hard work on the part of both people to succeed.
Eric

Better Question. Why cheat?

Apparently I need to clarify a few things. First of all, I realize marriages take some work. But I don't think they need the help of counselors. That's my first clue that I married the wrong person. I know that couples will fight and disagree over issues, but if the love is there, it's easy to work through anything. I lost the love for my husband long before anyone else came along. It had nothing to do with another person.
As far as my lover goes, he too had lost the love for his wife long before we met. We had discussed leaving our spouses, not for each other, but b/c we were no longer in love and could not even tolerate living with the spouses. In fact, we both agreed that we didn't want to be the cause of either break-up. We knew that we should have waited until we were both seperated from our spouses before having a relationship, but we didn't. And we know that was wrong. But we don't regret what we did, and we both still want to be together. He is going to counseling with his wife b/c he feels it's the right thing to do, and to appease her. But he does not feel that it will change his feelings or change his marriage at all. People don't change. Their actions might temporarily change, but their personality does not. So the arguing may stop for awhile, but eventually it will return. It's like the honeymoon all over. The spouse will be super sweet and accommadating to ensure that we stay married, but after a few months or so, I know it will go right back to where it was before. The courtesy wears off quick. And I feel that if I'm with the person that I truly love and am in-love with, then I wouldn't even be interested in anyone else. And all the "emotional needs" would be met. For both of us. I'm not taking my marriage vows lightly, although you don't see it that way. But I also don't believe I should live the rest of my life in an unhappy or unfulfilling marriage. I can find love again (obviously), so why shouldn't I take a chance on being happy again. It's also not fair to my husband to stay married to him if I don't love him. I certainly don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. He too could move on and find love again. There are couples on their second marriage that have found the "right" person, and live happily together forever. And even if I don't date anyone right away, I would still be happier alone than fighting with my husband. As far as my husband goes, I care about him like I care about a family member. I love him, but I will never be in love with him again. I don't even want him touching me. He tries to hug me and kiss me, and I won't even touch him. It's like a stranger touching me. It creeps me out. I don't find him attractive, and he drives me up the wall. I find that I'm happiest if I just ignore him. I don't talk to him or hear what he says, so he can't really irritate me. So the fighting has subsided significantly.

well lets see, you are the love of this MM's life, he is only going to marriage counseling to appease his wife and because it's the right thing to do. Does his wife know all that? Surely he wouldn't hide his feelings for the love of his life as if she were a dirty little secret? Since he doesn't love his wife anyway she might as well know that he's only going to MC for the reasons you mentioned.

Hmmm, do you think that what he tells her is completely opposite of what he tells you? But of course, it's her he's lying to..uh huh <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

kd,

I read your words and I am thrust back to where I was three years ago. You are very deeply in THE FOG...you just can't see it.

You need to come clean with your husband and tell him what's been going on and let him decide what he wants.

As far as the OM speak...been there, heard that..nothing new there. He's at home pouring his heart out to his wife and trying to stay married, all the while he wants to keep you waiting in the wings by telling you a bunch of lies. Surely, if he was truly unhappy in his marriage he would have divorced his wife...I mean really!

By the way, do you have children?


cue

Kd, I've been wanting to reply, then not wanting to, then wanting to.

Finally, Cue got in before me and said everything I was just going to say - only better than I could.

If you feel that strongly that your marriage is a total mistake, why are you not filing for divorce right now? And, I don't mean that to sound unkind, I'm really curious.

You must feel that somehow that wouldn't be the answer.

Jenny

kdm:

Since you've come to marriagebuilders and started this thread, apparently to convince us that you're choices are just and right, I think you owe it to us to go to the home page and read the articles about infidelity. Better yet, get yourself a copy of "Surviving an Affair" by Willard Harley and his daughter Jennifer, and read it.

I also want to address what you said in your second post:

"Apparently I need to clarify a few things."

Not really, but I'm listening. I hope you're listening as well, because we KNOW of what you speak more than you realize.

"First of all, I realize marriages take some work. But I don't think they need the help of counselors. That's my first clue that I married the wrong person."

And what was your second clue? And your third? and your nth? And, with all these "clues," why have you not taken your own hint and divorced your husband by now?

kdm, that wasn't a clue, that was a rationalization. I can accept that you may just really be unhappily married, but this isn't about the quality of your relationship with your husband, is it? If you really think about it, you'll realize it's all about justifying your behavior. Behavior that you know is wrong, and yet you are stuck and can't face the consequences of what you're doing. You're breaking up 2 families and hurting yourself, your H, your OM and his W.

"I know that couples will fight and disagree over issues, but if the love is there, it's easy to work through anything."

This isn't true. It's not "easy", but it's *rewarding*.

"I lost the love for my husband long before anyone else came along. It had nothing to do with another person."

Again, if you lost your love for him a long time ago, why did you stay married? Why have an affair? You're not solving your problems, you're exacerbating them.

"As far as my lover goes, he too had lost the love for his wife long before we met."

I know he's a liar, so I don't believe this. You shouldn't either.

"We had discussed leaving our spouses, not for each other, but b/c we were no longer in love and could not even tolerate living with the spouses. In fact, we both agreed that we didn't want to be the cause of either break-up."

Now you're sounding like my W again. And RM (her OM). I've got news, you're both presently the cause of the breakup of your marriages, whether your H is aware of what's happening or not. (in all probability, he knows, though he may not know why you're distant an unloving).

"We knew that we should have waited until we were both seperated from our spouses before having a relationship, but we didn't. And we know that was wrong. But we don't regret what we did, and we both still want to be together."

My heart pumps peanut butter for both of you. This is sickening. Where is your integrity in all of this? Never mind, I know. People involved in affairs set their senses of integrity, honesty, and compassion aside. They have to in order to carry on in a way that they know is WRONG for THEM. Happens all the time. You're more like the "typical WS" than you realize.

"He is going to counseling with his wife b/c he feels it's the right thing to do, and to appease her. But he does not feel that it will change his feelings or change his marriage at all."

And, like I said about your half-hearted efforts at counseling, it won't work for him so long as he's involved with you. He can't heal his marriage with his attitude and YOU in the picture. Get out.

"People don't change. Their actions might temporarily change, but their personality does not."

Marriage Builders' methods, and many other techniques that are geared toward saving marriages, are BEHAVIOR modification, forming new habits, healthy habits, to replace our bad habits and selfish tendencies. No, it's not changing people that's the goal here. It's behavior. It's also about changing your perspective.

"I know it will go right back to where it was before. The courtesy wears off quick."

Why do you suppose that is? And since you KNOW you can't change your H's behavior toward you, try changing your behavior toward him. See if he responds (most do). You are setting up an impossible condition for him to meet, just like my W has been doing with me. You are "requiring" him to earn your love by being nice to you, but you're predetermining that it will fail, and so it does. You haven't even told him the truth about what is happening in your life, to HIS and your marriage. Where is your integrity? Your compassion? Your honesty? Your ethics?

"And I feel that if I'm with the person that I truly love and am in-love with, then I wouldn't even be interested in anyone else. And all the "emotional needs" would be met. For both of us."

Try to make a go of it with your lying, cheating secret lover. Statistically, you have less than a 5% chance of still being together 5 years from now. But go ahead, you two might beat the odds.

"I'm not taking my marriage vows lightly, although you don't see it that way."

No, you're not. You're discarding them. And what about your H's vows? Remember, HE promised to be faithful to YOU, too. Does he take that as lightly as you do? Does he dismiss them like you have?

"But I also don't believe I should live the rest of my life in an unhappy or unfulfilling marriage."

No you shouldn't. Everybody has the "right" to be happy. But happiness comes from within, from being an emotionally healthy individual capable of being in a committed relationship. Happiness doesn't come from outside.

"It's also not fair to my husband to stay married to him if I don't love him."

It's also not fair to your H to cheat on him if you don't love him.

"I certainly don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. He too could move on and find love again. There are couples on their second marriage that have found the "right" person, and live happily together forever."

Name them. How many of these second marriages started out as affairs?

"And even if I don't date anyone right away, I would still be happier alone than fighting with my husband."

But you ARE dating "right away", aren't you? Only you've not told your H what you're doing. How does that make you feel about YOU?

"As far as my husband goes, I care about him like I care about a family member. I love him, but I will never be in love with him again. I don't even want him touching me. He tries to hug me and kiss me, and I won't even touch him. It's like a stranger touching me. It creeps me out. I don't find him attractive, and he drives me up the wall. I find that I'm happiest if I just ignore him. I don't talk to him or hear what he says, so he can't really irritate me. So the fighting has subsided significantly."

I find this paragraph very sad. You've gotten yourself in quite a predicament. You can't be happy without your married man's affection and attention, and when you are focused on your affair partner, you can't even see the painful cry for help from your H. Just from this description, I can tell that your H probably does love you very much and is trying to reach out to you. Only you reject him. Cruelly, because you won't even tell him why you're behaving the way you are.

My W's affair has been on and off for 13 years now. I found out about it 2 1/2 years ago. And I only realized after "d-day" just why we were "growing apart" all those years, because my W never told me the whole story. Every little rejection of my attempts at showing her affection. Even my own withdrawing from her, which pissed her off and fueled the affair (that I was unaware of). And lately... ...lately, I've only just realized that it's not because she's farsighted that she won't look into my eyes like she did when we met 30 years ago. It's because her affections are still divided. She's still confused. She doesn't want to choose, but she will have to.

So will you.

Choose wisely, Grasshopper
-Qfwfq

<small>[ July 02, 2004, 01:06 AM: Message edited by: Qfwfq ]</small>

Maybe I shouldn't get in on this. My W is having an affair and wants to divorce me. Before I whack away at you, I'll tell you, you are doing a very good thing by being here. Okay.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He too could move on and find love again.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let me tell you something. The pain a BS must endure before he is able to "move on" is worse than probably anything in your wildest dreams. If you knowingly inflict this on your husband - there is nothing you could do to anybody that would be more cruel. Is that who you are?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">People don't change.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes they do. Every day. I am a very different person than I was two months ago. The experience of having my wife cheat on me and want to divorce me has caused a PROFOUND change in me. This is not be nice for a while and then forget about it change. Of course, this change is a process and I'm just at the beginning of it. But it is real, honest, permanent change, not temporary damage control.

Be honest with your husband. The pain he (and you) will endure during a recovery will be no picnic, but it will be nothing compared to the suffering your H will endure if you ditch him for this other man. If he knows he needs to change himself to save his marriage, and you know you need to change, and you both take this very seriously, it will happen. You need a new marriage, yes. A new one with your husband. And you can have it. And you will be thankful for having chosen that difficult but rewarding path.

GC

I feel incredibly sorry for your husband. When you realise that love is not only about YOU, and YOUR feelings you will be worthy of love. Right now all I here from you is me, me, me. Maybe the "fog" but I think good old fashioned selfishness and immaturity is more fitting.

But you have come to the right place. Maybe you should read some of the threads from the men and women on here who are in a living hell because of what their spouses have done to them. If that doesn't wake you up nothing will.