NC: Wow. I feel for you. You have been through a lot.

I want to say so much, but yet I don't think I need to. I would just echo MadMax's points that you still need tell the OMW. I don't necessarily agree with all of her points. I don't think whether OM/OMW have a history of divorce means anything. Where they are when you tell them doesn't really matter either. I would recommend that it not be over the phone, but you're 12 hours away and the sooner it's done the better.

I think you did good by talking to RAP's mom and brother. It puts some pressure on her to end the A. I think the rest of what you have done puts pressure on RAP to work on the marriage. Hopefully, she doesn't turn and run away. Hopefully, she doesn't turn to the bottle.

Our prayers are with you,
Rich

uuhhmm bugger...DV=Domestic violence.


well at least where I come from <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Max

NC, I have read up on your threads, your W included. I am a FWW I can sympathizes with her struggles, but I think at some point which it looks like it is now, you need to take control of your life.

She isn't thinking clearly, she is very foggy, and still in the A. I feel you need to expose, expose, expose this A, so it will help her end it. Expose to everybody you feel is necessary. Sorry RAP, but you need help to get over this. It needs to be hard for you to see OM, you aren't able to do NC alone.

You guys love each other, help her find her way back to you NCW. This could be a great success story. Help her.

I copied some of Plan A for you. Just to go through and give you something to think about.

Best wishes KY


Plan A is for the betrayed spouse to negotiate with the wayward spouse to totally separate from the lover without angry outbursts, disrespect, and demands. These three Love Busters not only ruin any effort to reach a negotiated settlement, but they also make the betrayed spouse much less attractive to the wayward spouse. Instead of encouraging total separation from the lover, the anger, disrespect and demands of the betrayed spouse make the lover appear to be the only one who truly cares about the wayward spouse. They literally throw the wayward spouse into the arms of the lover.


In general, a betrayed spouse's effort to encourage the wayward spouse to end the affair should address all the root causes of the affair, and offer a solid plan for marital recovery. It should not be one-sided, however. The plan should make the wayward spouse and the betrayed spouse equally responsible for following the overall plan.

But plan A, an effort to end the affair with thoughtfulness and care, doesn't always work. In many cases a wayward spouse is so trapped by the addiction that he or she does not have the will-power to do the right thing. Once in a while the fog lifts and the cruelty and tragedy of the affair hits the wayward spouse right between the eyes. In a moment of grief and guilt, he or she promises to end it. But then the pain of withdrawal symptoms often brings back the fog with all its excuses and rationalization, and the affair is on again.

Sometimes a wayward spouse settles into a routine of having his or her cake and eating it too. In an effort to win the wayward spouse back, the betrayed spouse meets emotional needs that the lover cannot meet, while the lover meets emotional needs that the betrayed spouse has not learned to meet. While this competition is excruciatingly painful to the betrayed spouse, and the lover as well, the wayward spouse basks in the warmth of being loved and cared for by two people, with no real motivation to choose one over the other.

So, to avoid an indefinite period of suffering while a wayward spouse vacillates between spouse and lover, and to avoid rewarding the selfish behavior of having needs met by both spouse and lover, if plan A does not work within a reasonable period of time, I recommend plan B.


I hope this will help.

NCW, one more thing, or maybe it is two....

I needed my H help to end my A. I needed him to take charge and be my rock.

She will see exposure as a LB I'm sure, but in the end she will thank you for helping her and standing by her, she will respect you for taking charge.

Her loyalties to OM will shift back to you as the fog lifts, she is trying to stay loyal to OM by demanding you not tell his W.

Who really is that helping, the OM, and by you helping him, you are enabling the A. Are you really concerned for his welfare??? NO, but she is right now. She needs your help NCW

I'm done, KY

ncwalker -

Hmmmmmm. I can see why you are so angry. I have been through the same thing. I stopped counting D-days. WH swore so many times that he was having NC with OW. He even got up in church with me, and asked for prayers for our reconciliation. The next night I caught WH and OW in bed together.

It is very discouraging to say the least. I hope that RAP quickly makes some changes. Otherwise I'm afraid you will end up like me. I still love him, but don't want to be married to him. The respect and trust is gone.

You do need to tone down the anger. I was raised with constant screaming matches between my parents, and it was awful. For your boys sake I hope you will work on that.

Also the financial side needs to be worked on. Financial problems cause more stress than anything else on a marriage. RAP and you need to work together on that.

And, sadly, OM's wife does need to know the truth. I am sure that RAP isn't the first one he has gone after. His wife needs to know that her husband is putting her health at risk.

When you tell her, please refer her to MB or saveyourmarriagecentral, so that she can start working the program from her side.

Your dad sounds like a good man. Sorry all of this is happening right now.

Morning, or afternoon, all,

Well. Life stinks. Try as I might I can’t stave the pain of what my WW has done to me. I know what PHI 4:13 says. But at this point, the thought of my W sickens me. I thought I knew her. She is more selfish than my 4 year old DS.

The image of the graceful, poised, thoughtful woman I fell in love with, despite her problems, has been replaced.

I cannot believe she HAS any love for me. How could she? I know we sometimes hurt the ones we love. But she has now hurt me so MANY times. I don’t think this shell around my heart can be torn down. I don’t think she is up to the task. I don’t think she has it in her to put others first enough to repair the damage she has now done. I’m not saying I can’t forgive her. I can do that whether we make another attempt or not. All I’m saying is there is now hesitance in me to trust her. A tender spot that aches at the thought of her. And I am afraid she is unwilling to put forth the effort to repair it.

If I make a try at this marriage, I am so afraid she will just be going through the motions for the sake of the 3DS. I would rather not lie to them. I am so afraid that she will “pretend” until they are grown and gone and then leave me. I don’t know if I can take that kind of worry.

I have done my best to sow into her self-worth problem our entire marriage. Not perfect, but better and better. I truly felt closer to her year after year. When we were first married, she WASN’T my best friend and she became it. Now she is (was?). I have found that all this time, she has moved farther and farther.

We are not responsible for each others feelings. I truly believe that. But the old adage of “pick up the mess you made” still applies. I have been trying to do that 4 months now. She has kept stabbing me almost the whole time.

Sometimes you DON’T feel like doing what you are supposed to do. Ask my 3DS. But you still have to do it. Why? Because it is the right thing to do.

I have to make one more try. If I don’t, I won’t be able to look at my Creator and tell him I did my best. If our M has meant all of what I have said to my friends here, I can’t “look you all in the eyes” and say I have tried my best until I do. I feel that God has given me a peace about going. I feel God has allowed me to make the choice. I feel God has told me that I have done all He asked of me. Went through that some time ago. But I don’t think He has asked me to do my best. I owe Him my best. I have to be able to live with myself, too.

Sadly, I am afraid that my W cannot receive from me. I mean, I am afraid that any action I take will be perceived as vengeful or punishment at this point. She says she understands how I hurt. She has no idea. If there is a WS reading this, if you only take one thing away from this, let it be this: you cannot IMAGINE the pain that this betrayal causes. Maybe that is just in my case, I don’t know. She was my first. She is the only woman I have been with. She threw away so much that we had that was special. She didn’t hesitate to compromise one of the greatest things we had together. I feel she “quit” on us long ago. The promise of a stronger marriage after an A has been my fleece for some time. The hope that if we can survive this, we can survive anything. And she has not been able to set my needs above hers in any but a superficial way since I have been back. She has not been able to endure a discomfort so that I would not have to. And all the pain we are in right now is from her choice. It could all have been avoided if long ago she listened to her brother’s advice. Heeded the advice she gave ME on so many occasions. Felt that there was something between us WORTH saving, regardless of our problems.


I feel like there is this beautiful flower. A unique and beautiful gift of God unlike any other in the world. I feel like He trusted this flower to me and her to nurture and care for. And she and I did not do so well. We didn’t know how. We needed to take small steps because of the fragility of this flower. Careful with the pruning and careful with the feeding. And this flower is now unhealthy. Limp and pale. Thin and weak. And the parasites are waiting to move in and feed. And I feel like I have been trying to revive it and it has frustrated me because there is no emergency procedure. Because of it’s health, I have to be more careful and take smaller steps. And this flower has consumed me, to the exclusion of everything else in my life that is important. Including my own life. I would sacrifice any part of me if I knew it would help the flower. And I begin to, one small piece at a time. Some things work because the flower looks healthier. Some things don’t and the flower gets weaker. And all this time I am at the mercy of the weather and have to fight off the parasites. And I feel hopeful, because we did keep it alive for 13 years, so the roots must be strong. There MUST be a chance of restoring it to it’s original beauty. And my efforts are reaping small rewards. A little more color in the bloom one day, a little more stiffness in the stem on another. But other days it starts to atrophy again. And I keep giving of myself. And my she cannot help because she is weak. One of the parasites has stung her so this flower for a time is my responsibility. And I am getting weaker as parts of me go to the salvation of this flower. And she is telling me it is working. I am so consumed with concentrating on the efforts I listen to her. I listen to her say it looks better today. And joy comes in my heart, but I am so weak from the efforts and the removal of the pieces of me to really appreciate it. And hope is there. And I am thankful for the strong roots. But the progress is slow. Then I notice that the soil, the base of this flower has been disturbed. And I gently dig down to find that the roots of this flower have been cut and pulled. And I look at her and I know she has cut the roots away. And in disbelief I ask her why. And her reply is “Because I was hungry and I thought they would be good to eat.” That’s how the betrayed spouse feels.

There is a line in a song that goes,

'...sometimes Love has to drive a nail through its own hand..'

I think you are just tired. Let God take over for a bit today, and go draw from the Well.

Its going to be okay. You are both going to be okay.

ncwalker -

Sorry you are going through all this, but it does get better. WH and I took a marriage enrichment class where the idea was to "honor" the marriage. Each person was to forget about their wants and needs, and "honor" the marriage. That really helped me.

I did a lot of things that I did not "feel" like doing. That is how you get through the hard times. And EVERY marriage has hard times. Most of my friends who have been married a long time admit that there were times when they did not want to stay married. But now they are glad they did.

So how to we get RAP on board with this? Her pain is as bad as yours, plus she has the guilt and self-loathing that comes from not honoring her marriage.

I suggest that you relax, and let the Lord handle this. You need to completely back off, and try to enjoy yourself. I know it is hard.

RAP is going to have to do the work here. She is going to need to make the decision if she will honor the marriage, and take the action to do it, whether she feels like it or not. That is the bottom line. It is called committment.

ncw: Hang in there!

You said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I cannot believe she HAS any love for me. How could she? I know we sometimes hurt the ones we love. But she has now hurt me so MANY times. I don’t think this shell around my heart can be torn down. I don’t think she is up to the task. I don’t think she has it in her to put others first enough to repair the damage she has now done. I’m not saying I can’t forgive her. I can do that whether we make another attempt or not. All I’m saying is there is now hesitance in me to trust her. A tender spot that aches at the thought of her. And I am afraid she is unwilling to put forth the effort to repair it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
She now has to earn back your trust. You are correct to hesitate to give it. Her actions have proven that to you.

You have been struggling against the affair. She has been foggy. She mislead you. IT IS NOT YOU! Ok, so now you've started to expose the A. This is good, unfortunately, because the A was continuing, RAP was not in NC, her withdrawal will continue. You need to protect yourself, BUT still at the same time be there for her. Not necessarily give her your heart. Read up on this part in Plan A. And if you don't have Harley's book "Surviving an Affair," go out today and get it. He has alot of his stuff on this site, but there are examples in there that help clarify what he is saying. It will be a tremendous help for you to get through this.

From your posts, I believe you to be an exceptionally strong man. I believe RAP is also strong willed. She had to be to live with herself while still deceiving you. She had to be having tremendous up and down emotions (no pun intended). It was a struggle within herself just to allow the A and she sees no way out (EVEN WHEN YOU OFFER ONE). She's addicted to this other guy. It's just like drugs. You need to be her sponsor.

Remember that God only gives us what we can bear. From the pain shared here, that just proves what I said in the last paragraph. Don't give up yet. Just take a break. You're on vacation. I know it is hard to enjoy yourself. Just watch your kids, enjoy them. They won't be little for long. Talk to your dad, enjoy him. He won't be around forever, so savour being with him. (I lost my dad when I was 30. He was my hero and I miss him terribly, but that is another story...not for here.)

You've set a big plan in motion. Now sit back and watch for a little bit. Until it's time to make that phone call, to talk to OMW. Give your heart a chance to rest. I know that the pain has been excruciating. It will take a while for that to rescide, but it will. God will be with you. Ask for his help. Ask for his guidance. Ask that his will be done AND it will. He will help you through this. It is not easy, but then life never is.

Take care,
Rich

Madmax, you said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> uuhhmm bugger...DV=Domestic violence.
well at least where I come from </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Sorry about that. I wasn't sure what DV meant and was just guessing.

BTW: what does "noubt as queer folk" mean? (I think that was what you had posted.)

R

Onlywords,

I do owe you some responses to an earlier post where you were trying to help me before all the 4th of July nightmare happened.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Before I answer your questions, I want to clear something up. I said I was "vulnerable" to an affair. I wasn't sure if your response was meant sincerely or sarcastically.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I meant that will all sincerity. I sometimes forget inflection does not come across when I am posting. I kind of just post like I talk. In all sincerity, you should be commended for what you have done. Sinned and owned it. Just like the adulteress in the “He who is without sin” parable. She was contrite and admitting what she had done. Jesus had mercy because even though her actions were deplorable, her character was NOBLE. (MadMax, if you are reading this, that is what I meant when I earlier said these WWs had poise and grace. Sorry I thought you were a guy). And look at her accusers. Jesus shamed them into submission. Sure, many had probably committed sins that were “lesser” offenses. But none of THEM owned up to what they had done. And they were shamed. I am truly sorry that you even thought I did not mean that sincerely. And if I may, let me comment on your self-worth. In my book, even though you may not feel it all the time, you REALLY have it. In abundance. For exactly the reasons above. It TAKES a person of strong self-worth to admit they are wrong and “risk” not having the shameful masses love them. It takes a person of self-worth to stand, and to understand the foundation of the rock. Look at the fact that you have posted to me out of love BEFORE I had a chance to respond to this query. For all you knew, I COULD have meant that sarcastically. Yet you extended to me feelings and advice out of love and concern for my marriage, not knowing if I was on the other side of the net snickering at your opinion. THAT takes a ton of self-worth, risking ridicule for what you believe in. Tell RH to give you a big hug. Not from me, but from God, because he is smiling on you.

On to the meat….

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But the things you don't want to admit are probably the things that are most important to admit to...they seem to hold the key.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree. Pain and hurt have a way of telling us where the wounds really are. It is strange that sometimes we get the most honesty through anger and that is also when we are the least likely to listen. If I had listened to RAP when she was angry years ago, a lot of this could have been avoided. Really goes back to the old proverb “QUICK to listen, slow to speak…”

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't want to play that game, though, so Ireally I don't want my husband to do that. Neither does he. It would be like putting a band-aid on a wound that needs stitches. I don't want my mind to work that way anymore- it's pathetic.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well put. As we grow with our spouses we kind of learn how to “kick” to get the response we want. How sad that we sometimes want to choose that way instead of the servant’s heart route. There is a lot of that I would take back if I could. We do it out of desperation, out of need. How quickly our flesh discards what we know to be right in favor of the need. I go back to Jesus on the MT resisting the temptations. Wow. Wouldn’t that be nice? Wasn’t easy for him to do, he just had mastery over his flesh.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 1) Why are YOU a valuable person?
This is very tough. I know the RIGHT answer - because God says so!
But here is the usual way of thinking, for me:
All humans are selfish by nature. That is why my worth TO OTHERS and ACCORDING TO OTHERS, depends on what I can or can't do for them. I am included in this group, because I have been guilty of handing out approval based on what other people do or don't do for me! It's a daily, uphill struggle not to do this. I do not want to do this to other people and I do not want them to do it to me.
Now before you hit me with a 2x4, I KNOW that the opinion of others is NOT the true measure of my worth. I KNOW THIS! Much harder to live out than to say.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you make the distinction between spiritual and fleshly self-worth? I mean our spirit is supposed to know our self-worth comes from God. So why is it tough? Is there a fleshly parallel to that. Or is the flesh feeling loved, liked, or stroked in some way the equivalent of that self-worth? It is much harder to live out than to say. I was very approval driven through my youth. Did not really get approval from my family for who I was, only what I did. After my salvation, self-worth through God’s grace was a very foreign concept. I have self-worth now, but is it because I am stroked for good performance at work? (Don’t really get it much at home right now. Middle DS “senses” something is wrong and has been giving me a lot of unprompted hugs lately.) I sometimes wonder if my general approval were stripped away, WOULD I feel worthy? Don’t know. Kind of scares me to think that way, expecting God to say “Hmmm, let’s just see…” Maybe he is doing that now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 2) When someone in a casual relationship reacts negatively towards you, what are your feelings and how do you handle them?
My TENDENCY is the same as RAP's. I would probably feel left out, think they don't like me, etc....then obsess about it for a lot longer than is good for me! I am learning not to jump to conclusions about it. One thing that does help is to remind myself that there ARE people that like me, and that if other people DON'T like me, it's probably because they don't really know me and have assumed things about me !</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Has been unfruitful getting RAP to see this. She acknowledges it, but can’t do it. HURTS BAD that my approval of her is not enough. I personally seem to be able to bear a lot of UNAPPROVAL because I keep in the back of my head the thought that I have a wife that loves me no matter what. Now that’s gone. I’m a little scared about that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 3) Do you find your husband's opinion of you matters less because of familiarity, or more because he has invested so much of his heart in you?

Hmmm...before the affair or after it?

Before the affair, I wasn't really even sure anymore what his opinion of me was. I found myself thinking that he didn't care because he spent so little time with me and I was always at the bottom of his "to-do" list. It seemed to me that all he cared about was if he got sex. That was the only time I got his undivided attention, and even THAT was always when he was done with everything else for the day.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very interested to hear HIS side of that. RAP also feels that all I care about is if I get sex. I don’t. But I also understand that I may be projecting something on to her that I am just not seeing. A man has a physical NEED for sex. Biological. A man ALSO has an EMOTIONAL need for sex – our expression of intimacy. At least in me. I can set aside the EMOTIONAL need for her if it is too much pressure. The PHYSICAL need I can’t. So sometimes I don’t sleep well if that is not satisfied. Sometimes I am cranky because of it. It is really two DIFFERENT needs satisfied the same way. I think that’s why it is so powerful. A man can “satisfy” the PHYSICAL by himself. But not the EMOTIONAL. He needs his wife to do that. I think that when she is not, he is FORCED to take care of the PHYSICAL need so that he can make it through the day. It can get to the point of not being able to concentrate if you go too long. But when they are not met together, a great disparity arises and feelings of resentment get stronger. I read somewhere that women think that men are angry when they masturbate. Is that true? Do you gals think that? Most of the time I think I feel hurt and disappointed that I have to. I always wish it were with my wife. Maybe because I have only been with her. Wow. This is now really straying from the original topic. Maybe I should start a thread on this subject. Probably ought to cruise the EN section first.

Did he REALLY feel that way or was the fact that you were not meeting his needs as much as he liked SEEM to make it bigger in your mind? I mean did you understand it was something you SHOULD be doing and when he wanted it, it made is SEEM like that was all he wanted because of some feelings of guilt? Did he REALLY only give you his undivided attention then, or was the tension of the EN magnifying how it all appeared? Sometimes I think that is what goes on with me and RAP. She says ALWAYS because of the tension around the subject. And I feel indignant because I know that is not true. But I can see how from her side it would FEEL that way because of the tension. It kind of magnifies everything.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AFTER the affair, I saw that he could have left, but he didn't. There were times when I wondered if it was only to avoid becoming a "public spectacle" - but you know, he's not the kind of guy who cares much what anyone else thinks. He has a LOT of confidence in himself. So, I realized that if he was only staying to "save face", then he wouldn't also be here trying so damn hard to work through this!</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That EXACT thing has been troubling me and RAP. We have only been with each other, but we did not do things the “right” way. Stupid. Our oldest DS is 13 and we have been married 13 years. His b-day is 6 mos after the anniversary. I did love her. I wanted to marry her. I hoped she wanted to marry me too. But that has always in the back of mind. Did we REALLY? Or did we just do the right thing because of the circumstances. It has bothered me that RAP has never really known that she was my choice and would have been regardless.

One night after the A a really positive thing to me came out of this. Spiritually, I had every right to leave. Emotionally I had every reason. And I CHOSE to stay. As poor as the circumstances are, I guess I feel like I got another chance to SHOW RAP that she WAS my CHOICE. I told her this one night, but she was falling asleep on the couch. Don’t know if it sank in, or has any meaning to her.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You ask hard questions.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks. It is a knack. “As iron sharpens iron…”

NCWalker

Hi. Here is some responses to a bunch of helpful people…

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OW:: NC,

You have to tell OMW. POJA does not apply to this.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sorry. I had to back off on that. She is deathly afraid of what the OM might do if he finds out she told me. Don’t want to put her through that. Makes her problem with my anger seem kind of funny though, doesn’t it? Probably will tell once I move from the home city for good.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">madmax:: Just ask yourself this.....Other than the option of divorce...what other options do you have?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have tried all options, that I could stomach, other than divorce save one. Getting her out of the city NOW. I am working that option, but I cannot really MAKE her do anything. So at this point, it is HER choice, not mine. Submit to your husband or divorce him. (And once again, I UNDERSTAND what Godly submission is. That word sometimes raises the hairs on the back of people’s necks).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">RH:: I think you did good by talking to RAP's mom and brother.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I had to. I am desperate for her to understand ACCOUNTABILITY. She does NOT have it towards ME. Was a MAJOR love buster for her. Also wasn’t real nice to her mom. She got combative with me and I wasn’t really going to take it from her. Wish I could take that back.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KY4:: You guys love each other, help her find her way back to you NCW. This could be a great success story. Help her.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really hope you are right. She has been saying things to me that make me think she is just going through the motions. She is now talking attorneys, feeling like I am being unreasonable, saying that I am pushing her away with what I am doing now. I really hope that is the fog. She seems to have a stigma that I seldom have her best interests at heart. I understand that. Comes from me not taking the best financial care of her. Wasn’t bad, just not what she needed. Not an excuse, I should have done what she needed. But it scares me when she talks like that. She didn’t meet a few of my needs at all. Not for some time. And thoughts like “I’m going through the motions” have NEVER crossed my mind. I still love her. I have this fear she is going to do what I ask, then leave me and take me for all I’m worth when the 3DS are grown and gone. Irrational? I don’t know. Can’t remember what “rational” feels like any more.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KY4:: She will see exposure as a LB I'm sure, but in the end she will thank you for helping her and standing by her, she will respect you for taking charge.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">See above. I really hope and pray you are right. A sign from the Big Guy would be nice.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KY4:: Her loyalties to OM will shift back to you as the fog lifts, she is trying to stay loyal to OM by demanding you not tell his W.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know you are right. She has lied, lied, lied to me about all this. I promised her again I wouldn’t tell. She was so scared of the repercussions of OM finding out. I caved. It is hard for me to not keep a promise. Afraid to LB her that hard. We NEED to tell. I understand POJA doesn’t apply but I am so worried about her never forgiving me if I put her through that. Also afraid that she really wants to keep that door open. Some man I am, huh? Fr*aking paralyzed in the headlights. Would be a HUGE deposit in my LB if RAP came to me and wanted to tell. She SAYS she does, she just hasn’t yet. It is kind of becoming a fleece.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">KY4:: Who really is that helping, the OM, and by you helping him, you are enabling the A. Are you really concerned for his welfare??? NO, but she is right now. She needs your help NCW</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Know what you are saying. This just feels different. I don’t have a peace about it. It is almost like I am supposed to give her an example of what keeping a vow means no matter what. Not sure if that is it. I just don’t have a peace about it, so in my book that is a no go.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">believer:: It is very discouraging to say the least. I hope that RAP quickly makes some changes. Otherwise I'm afraid you will end up like me. I still love him, but don't want to be married to him. The respect and trust is gone.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is how I feel right now. She is going to have to earn that back. I can forgive her again, but she has hurt me too bad.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">believer:: You do need to tone down the anger. I was raised with constant screaming matches between my parents, and it was awful. For your boys sake I hope you will work on that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This comes through on our thread a lot. It is not as bad as it is coming through on the threads. RAP and I are pretty good about it. If we think discussion will become heated, we usually go outside or send the boys out.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">believer:: Also the financial side needs to be worked on. Financial problems cause more stress than anything else on a marriage. RAP and you need to work together on that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We are working on that. I do have the finances now, but again it is a submission issue. POJA POJA POJA. We are trying. It is hard. It will be hard for some time given our current status and the fact that I am now forced to move. Feel worse for the 3DS about this.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">believer: And, sadly, OM's wife does need to know the truth. I am sure that RAP isn't the first one he has gone after. His wife needs to know that her husband is putting her health at risk.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She was not the first. He has ALREADY moved on and has another lover. But again, his recent “gratification” with my wife was because SHE gave him the opportunity again. Can’t BLAME him for that, it is just who he is. Not an excuse for him, an explanation. What really bothers me is I came across a few girls like that, you know, loose. Back when my hormones were raging and before I was dating RAP. Even as a young, hormonal man the thought of a person like that turned my stomach. RAP KNOWS what he does, yet she lets him touch her. It is disgusting. I can’t understand how she can do that no matter how bad she is feeling. It’s like going to a hospital and letting a doctor operate on you and the guy is all greasy and gross with a runny nose and he is going to smoke a cigarette while your chest is cracked open. I think I would say “thanks, but no thanks” regardless of how bad I felt. I don’t know. Maybe she WAS that desperate for he needs to be met. She should have told me, ya know? Equivalent to asking for a different doctor.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">believer:: Your dad sounds like a good man. Sorry all of this is happening right now.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My dad is a great man. So is her brother. That’s why I told them. Told her mom because I was mad and hurt. That was wrong.

NCWalker

ncwalker - Well RAP is posting again. She is really hurting.

What you need to do is notify OM's wife ASAP. That is the MB program. She deserves to know. Just do it.

I have told RAP the same thing about SF, just do it.

<small>[ July 05, 2004, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]</small>

<small>[ July 05, 2004, 11:59 PM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]</small>

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 12:00 AM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]</small>

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]</small>

<small>[ July 06, 2004, 12:03 AM: Message edited by: runawaypot ]</small>

NCW,
I'm sorry I don't have something pivotal to say.

I got a little lost over the holiday weekend, but caught up on your thread just now.

I can't put into words how terrible I feel for what happened while you were on vacation.

Maybe I'm wrong here, but if you have ANY desire to save this marriage, you call the OMW RIGHT NOW. All the stalling, all the reasons not to tell, have only ENABLED this to last encounter, and that is exactly what outing the A is supposed to end isn't it ???????

You're well spoken, and very patient, I trust you will not be evil in your unveiling. You have to if you want to save the marriage.

Again,
I'm so sorry, nothing you could have EVER done, warranted what happened in the most recent events. I'd have burned my own house down by now.


God Bless, and take care.

NCW, my prayers are with you and your decision. I thought I awoke every morning to my nightmare, but I realize that your false recovery's have to be even more painful than the very first D day. I can not imagine how that would feel over and over again.

I pray that God speaks to you and your wife, and when he does that you can hear him, and that after you hear him ... you choose to follow HIS path and not reject it because of inconvenience or difficulty. It is the same prayer I say for my family. Now it is a prayer I say for yours.