I jsut got off the phone with him .I started out asking him how was his day and it went bad.

He says he doens't want to be responsible for whether I am happy or not. He doen't want to feel guilty.

He is sick of heavy discussions and why can't I just talk like a friend.

I told him that I care about him and I want to love him- that I miss him , and want to spend more time together.

He got angry.


He knows that I want to know where things stand with him and the ow, but he won't tell me.

I can't take this anymore.

I told him if he doesn't want me in his life to say so, and I will let him go.

He said he is sorry; that he is saying things he doens't mean and he will talk to me tomorrow.

But he doesn't really want to talk, thats just it.

I have been trying to do a 180, but I blew it.

I love him and I want him and need him in my life, but hes not with me, and he doesn't want to feel guilty.

I can't help it if he feels guilty. He made a promise to me, and he broke it.

I wonder if its time to let him expeience life without my love.

I jsut realised that I have been trying to protect him from the consequences of his actions- trying to hold things together so that he doesn't lose the only good things in his life.

I can't stand to see him destroy himself, and our lives, because he is a mess, but I can't seem to stop him.

I can't stand it.

I have watched him go downhill for so many years- and he is so miserable, but he doens't understand that there is hope for a good life - all the things he wants if only he asks.


I am so frustrated I could scream.

I know what you are feeling. I have found that when I push to get some feedback I generally get just the opposite, WH will be very defensive.
When I back off, and as your WH stated, talk like friends, I generally get better communication.

This is really hard stuff and I'm still struggling with it but your WH is giving you information that you should listen to.

I have gotten my best reassurances from WH when we are speaking as friends and the talk is open and free and comfortable. He needs to be able to get past your pain in order to feel comfortable. He needs to know he can trust himself that he will not hurt you any further. This requires great strenght on the BS's part. This is not the time for a BS to attempt to get their needs filled. This unfortunately is all about them.

It is not a simple task as your heart is breaking and you need reassurances. But pushing for information or for reassurances just doesn't work.
Someone on another thread gave this URL for an article that I wish I had but don't right now. But it likens the relationship to one of someone you are newly dating.
You wouldn't demand or push a new date to get information, you tend to ease into sharing informatin about one another. If you demanded something from a new date, the odds are he would buck and run.
The intent of this article helped me tremendously. I admittingly still have trouble as emotions are so hard to keep in check. But when I abide by that thinking, I get such better responses from WH.
And each step closer to sharing is a step closer saving your marriage.

Thank you .

I was losing it.

I don't know how to be friends with him, if he won't talk.

I ask about his day, and he gets defensive. If I call him to say hi he feels pressured.There is so much guilt and hurt there, getting in the way of being friends.

How do we get past that? Maybe I need to have no contact with him for awhile?

Shul - Two months ago WH did not want to be married, said he didn't love me and was completely shut down and closed off to me. 5 weeks ago he moved out. I was a complete mess. Fast forward to today, I have been working on myself and getting myself together and things seem to be moving in the right direction. I do not contact him unless he initiates it. He has called me or e-mailed me everyday for over a week. In fact last night he wanted to stop by to just say hello, however, I was getting ready to go out so he is coming over today instead. I do not push for relationship or M talk. I am pleasant and nice and talk about what is going on in my life. Occasionally, he will open up to me and tell me where his head his and I respond to that. These moments are few and far between but our other conversations and nice and relaxed, no tension. The non-relationship talk shows WH that our conversations can be nice and non-confrontational and make him feel safe when he does open up. No one wants to engage in an uncomfortable situation so he needs to know it is safe to bring up certain things. I'd like to believe this is building the foundation for something more. If I pushed him to talk about things he wasn't ready to I really don't think he would come around or talk to me as much. It's hard when you want more, but be patient and it will come with time.

While you are waiting for him, keep busy and do stuff for yourself. Go to church, go out with friends, exercise, anything. I think the key for me is I have finally come to the point where I realize I do not need WH, but I do want him. There is a big difference.

shul,
Hi , i can relate after i discoverd the A last year my H wanted time to himself, didnt know what he wanted etc. and when i woiuld talk he would say i was pressuring him etc even if it had nothing to do with him. i dont have any advice just hang in there!

Thank you all so much.

You are right.

It is my frustration at seeing him so unhappy, spinning his wheels for so many years.

I have to be patient, let God work on him, but it is so hard. He tries so hard, works so hard, all for nothing. I feel his frustration, and I want to tell him that I understand,and that things could be so different but he doesn't listen.

His life could be so much easier, but he is getting in the way of his own happiness.

I will wait and let him talk when he is ready.

Some times I think I will explode from all the love in me, that is waiting for him.

Hi Shul- I could write your posts. EXACTLY. are you online now? have you ever come to ladies chat?

http://www.san-andreas.com/mbladies/chat.php

PEACE OUT

Hi all,

I have been taking the advice offered here.

I haven't called him for ages. I have let him call me, even when a week or two have passed.

(Once he noticed it got him wondering all right.)

He has moved away from the ow to another town. I don't know if he is still in contact with her by phone, but he isn't going there now that I know of.

I have stopped all relationship talk.

I had shopping to do in town so I invited him out to supper last night and we went. We hadn't seen him for about a month, and that was just for 5 minutes on Fathers day.

It was fine, just small talk, and brief b/c it was getting late.

He had said to call him when we got to town so I did . (Daughter and I were at the beach there.)

He said he would have to work a few hours late, but we could drop by the site for a few minutes if we wanted.

So we did.

He finished what he was doing and came over to the car. I asked him how much longer he would be, thinking that if he was going to be awhile I would go back to the beach b/c it was very hot out. If not we would wait for him.

He got upset and said that he felt like I had set this all up, that it put pressure on him to hurry up, that now I could see for myself that he was actually there and not in (the other city) with the ow.

(This all b/c I asked him nicely how long he thought he would be.)

Anyway, (smiling),I said no problem , it was nice to see you, if you don't want to go thats ok. We were happy to see you for a few minutes. I can see you are tired, so we will just take off now and maybe go back to the beach and then go out for supper, daughter and I.

He stopped me and said to call him in an hour. I said no, you call me when you are done. If we are still around and if you want to go out to eat I will meet you or pick you up.

We did manage to hook up eventually, went for pizza, had small talk, daughter and he got along fine, he initiated a hug and kiss and a 'family hug' when we left.I caught him checking me out when left the restaurant.


No relationship talk, no LB's, no questions about anything tricky.

Lo and behold he called me this morning, he called me tonight, he tried to call me last night to make sure we made it back ok....


Now he says I love you before he hangs up.

He is talkig about coming out this weekend if he has time off. He is talking about doing the maintenance ( thats another thread and I don't know how to tell him he's fired yet, lol), when he comes etc.

All to the good, but I made up my mind that I am taking this slow, very slow.

I don't think I will be available this weekend. I will be busy going to a concert ( without him).Normally I would drop everything for him.


I will let him come to me. I am not chasing after him anymore.

If he gets suspicious/jealous , so be it.

Shul

Wonderful Shul! Seriously. Sounds like you're making huge progress and it's starting to pay off.

Michele

Shul - you rul. Perfect!

GC

From what he said and the way he reacted the other day, it seems that he feels as though I am putting pressure on him to come home.

I guess he hasn't noticed that in the past 8 months I have not once suggested that he come back.

Back in January I asked him point blank if he still considered us to be a married couple. He said , "I guess not."

I replied that I guess that would make him my 'ex-husband'. (meaning that I supposed I would no longer consider myself bound to him.)

All these months I have assumed that he undestood that he is free, that I had let him go-but he still feels trapped, as though I was manipulating him , for example when I invited him for supper or called to ask how he is, or whether he wanted to se his daughter on Fathers Day.

Why can't he understand that we just want to see him once in a while?

He seems to see it all as a ploy, a trick.

The closest thing to an LB was when he was calling while he was staying at her house( insisting it was only b/c he needed a place to crash), and one night I said " there are 700,000 people in the city- find somewhere else to stay."

He got very angry and said he didn't like ultimatums, and that his reaction is to do the opposite ( move in permanently).

I said nothing.

Some time ago he 'threatened' me with lawyers, not realising that it is moot. He has nothing I want and I am not stopping him from seeing his daughter by any means.


As long as he is feeling resentful and imprisoned by this marriage institution,
it is getting in the way of establishing a friendship.

He needs to stop seeing me as the wife- the burden, anchor around his neck or whatever before we can go forward.


In the past couple of years, while he has been off in fogland, I have accomplished a good deal, in my work and in my personal life.

I have made new friends and changed in some of my thinking .

I am not the person he knew me to be. He hasn't met this side of me.

He hasn't ever seen me in my work environment or in the other work I do.

I think he sees me simply as a stay at home wife and mother , (dependant on him ) which I was for some years.

He has been gone alot, and he doesn't know most of what has happened in my life.

He has missed out on so much not being there, and even when he was there he showed no interest in what I was doing.

I feel frustrated.

I think I need some creative ideas to help him see me as a person, a woman, a friend.

Shul