Hey Anyname, you are so right. 50 is NOT that old. We're just a lot wiser at our age. LOL don't you know to never wear glasses when looking in a mirror? Leave them off and you get that fuzzy air-brushed look...

Sociopath..it's a personality disorder common in cult leaders and murderers and also in the general population...the person seems normal and even charming, but is manipulative, has no true feelings or sympathy, uses people to get what they want, has no sense of guilt or responsibility, control freak .... [URL=http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/psychopath.html] gives a list. WH has most of the traits.

Anyname, the OW is about 31 maybe 32.

DD is very angry with H and will probably be saying very little to him for awhile. When DD saw her father's truck parked at OW's house she couldn't hold back. Called his cell and left a scathing message. He called her back and said " Not that this is any of your business, but when an employee of 15 years loses their job they're upset". DD was not happy to hear of his need to comfort the OW/"employee" instead of his wife and family. And she feels that it IS her business, not only because we're her parents but because she's been treated very poorly at work by H. Now she sees what was going on and why her work was never "good enough".

Neither DD nor I had ever been to OW's house and WH/OW probably thought that it was their safe little hideaway. Now DD has ruined that sense of security/secrecy. He told DD that he was leaving OW's house and DD saw him driving toward the home of a friend that she knew had offered him a place to stay. BUT around 7 PM he called me (first call to me all day) and in a sweet, calm voice asked what I was doing, and was wondering if he should come back here. I told him not to, and he hung up on me. A few minutes later a friend driving down the road saw him pull into a motel near our house. I guess H's friend, or more likely, friend's wife, didn't let him stay overnight.

Isleepwithacat, you bring up a very good point about PI's. I was lucky that my PI has been awesome. But seeing how it works, and considering the vulnerable situation that most of us are in when we need one, people should be very careful choosing a PI. The one I hired offered a free preliminary consultation that helped me get a feel for the type of guy I'd be dealing with, his straightforwardness, etc. Still it was risky and I'm thankful that he's been great.

....WH just pulled in the driveway. Will see what today brings. Thanks again to everyone.

<small>[ July 19, 2004, 07:31 AM: Message edited by: haywire ]</small>

Haywire, SD asked me to check out your thread last week. Unfortunately I was in my own personal A drama and didn't feel capable of being helpful at the time. Yesterday I read your thread and thought I'd check in with you today.

Our little "B" of an OW was H's office manager for 4 yrs. Starting in 8/02 we had a series of deaths and other stressors in our lives. Last March/03 H's dad died. Within a month he was beginning his EA with OW. She actively pursued him, and he fell for all the admiration and adoration like a total 16 yr. old idiot. It turned into a PA. He emotionally D'd me. He would not talk to me or fess up. Like an idiot I believed him when he said he wasn't having an A. He never had lied to me before. By DEC I was planning on leaving him. The truth began dribbling out 1/03. When he admitted to the EA 2 weeks later I told him OW goes or he goes. He was totally IN-LOVE and very attached to her. Never thought ANYONE could run his business like her. He did get rid of her. Slowly he is becoming unfogged.

I just want to tell you what a great job you've been doing. There was no way I was going to let our "B" work for H in there cozy little set-up. In your case the fact that your H was boinking her in your home, well enough said. She deserves everything she gets, and so does your H. You now need to decide what's best for you. When the heck did she start working for him, when she was 15?

By the way, my dad was dying while H was involved with OW. Also my H had Hep C. He is totally cured now. Just a little side note. Any help I can give just call out. I will be in and out of here bacause of vacations. The one thing I will say is the truth is a thousand times better than the deception. Our MC told H that the cruelest thing he did to me was allowing me to think I was crazy. Take care and keep up the good work. You are a strong lady. CV

CV,
My heart goes out to you. We've been through much of the same nightmare and sadness. You're so right that the truth is a thousand times better than the lies.

This OW started first as a student and became a working-student when she was around 17 -- I think she's 31 or 32 now. As a working-student she helped with the work and got experience and lessons in return...(I hate to think of the type of experience she was getting).

Good for your husband for beating the HCV! And for ending the A. I hope he comes out of the damn fog and gives you back the loving husband you deserve

CV, like Haywire, you are another lady who get's everyone's attention. I can hardly believe this is happening, but I am actually having some ok days now. I wanted to tell you this, as I have felt like I would never recover.

You read about the recoveries of others and wonder what planet they are from? But I think it happens, eventually to everyone. I'm telling you this because I recognise your anger and hurt SO much and I think you must wonder whether you will ever know any peace. I am by no means round the corner, but just to have some nice days is more than I ever expected. Maybe they will grow into nice weeks?

Others told me this could happen but I couldn't understand how. All the agony and pain you are feeling does have a purpose. All the questions and LBing, does have a purpose. It's all part of the process. I just wanted to tell you that no matter how bleak you feel, I really do feel there is light at the end of the tunnel (be it ever so dim at this moment - it's better than the 20 months of wandering the tunnel in darkness).



Haywire: Why didn't H stay at OW's house? What's his game? You reckon he's still trying to pull the wool over everyone's eyes? Hoping it's not too late to keep the scam going? Bit of an optimist is he?

Also, can I make a suggestion to DD? Tell her to refrain from talking to her father. It only gives him the opportunity to defend OW, and be generally defensive. Tell her to go quiet on him and let him see how terribly hurt she is by what he's done. My DD was 25 when A was discovered (OW 26 - we live in Asia where girls are a dim a dozen) and my DD wouldn't speak to her father, even though he'd been the most wonderful father to her. She was totally horrified and couldn't bring herself to talk to him for 3 weeks and after that she was pretty cool towards him. He was terrified of her and rightly so. It's just one more down side of A's that WH's have to face.

Anyname, thanks for the encouraging words. I'm not sure how I grab anyone's attention, so I'm not exactly sure what you mean. However, I think I let it all out here. My own little therapy vents. I am so appreciative that my MB friends don't get too annoyed at me for doing that. As a result I probably sound gloomier than I actually am at times. I just wrote on SD's thread, and if you read it you'll see I am presently just in one more strange place in the recovery journey. H is continuing to get unfogged which is good. The "B" is losing her hold on him emotionally I think. I am still hesitant to actually say we are in recovery yet. Thanks for your continued support.

Haywire, there are a lot of similarities in our stories. H is a funeral director and the funeral home is a literal home. The FH became home to H, with OW becoming me. Home became the dreaded place to him. I also warned H to be careful way before the EA began. I'm a therapist and know about transference. I saw OW crossing bounderies which at 1st H was annoyed at. Then he starting breaking the bounderies too. He couldn't see it. He was the good daddy to her. This might make you feel a little better. Our MC and his IC told him that if he ever married OW there sex life would stink because eventually she would feel like she was married to daddy. It gave me so much pleasure to hear that.

Hang tough. I'll check back with you when I return on Friday. CV

Hello Haywire,
I am another betrayed wife who is following your thread and feeling very deeply for you.
I know how you feel- the knot in your stomach as you described it. I thought I would never feel the same again. I was constantly thinking about the affair 24/7, waking up in the middle of the night, thinking it had been a bad dream.
My husband was quite remorseful. I asked him to leave. He refused saying his place was with his family and me. He has tried very hard to make it up to me.

It is now 5 months since DD day and those feelings have faded very much so. I cannot believe nor can my husband what occurred.He is marvellous, although at times I have these triggers and LB very badly.

I suppose what I am trying to tell you is that it is normal to feel that your whole world is caving in on you. Trust issues were very important to me as they still are.

Do not make any permanent decisions as your feelings will change. That is why they call it a rollercoast ride. Things can improve.

I will be thinking of you.

God Bless, Anne

haywire,

Thinking of you and all the torrent of emotions that you are experiencing RIGHT now!

You have now stepped officially onto the Roller Coaster:
The pain of finally "knowing" it's all true, yet at the same time the relief of getting the validation that you are NOT the crazy, loony one.

The anger of being betrayed and the fear of the future.
The sadness of losing the innocence of your "life" , but the pride in YOURSELF for no longer being taken advantage of.

With that said, let me state that I am Happy that you finally have the proof you need as well as having  started your action to end the A.
However, I am not happy AT ALL  that you are being forced to go through this or that your H would do this to you. I grief with you, for the lose of the "innocence" to the M you always "thought" you had.
Definitely a rough place to be.

In any case,  let me add my encouragement to the others here.
IMO you are doing a Fantastic job here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> (At least to the outside world, even IF you FEEL like a wreck on the inside). That's normal you know, to be SOOO conflicted with your "feelings"?
Be ready to vacillate back and forth for a long time. Many times even minute by minute.

Any way, I was complimenting you on your approach to all this. You are one of the very select few that are handling each step in the proper and recommended manner.
Take if from us, you are doing well.  Much better then most.....if that's any comfort.

You are  getting plenty of good advice (and congrats to you for following much of it).
Of course, I agree that at this step you must protect yourself, whether  that  be  financially, legally or even emotionally.
Your doing great...so don't start reacting hastily...Always try to take that moment to step back and just breathe ...give yourself the time you need to make the BEST choices for yourself and your M.
Keep in mind that "feelings" and perspective  DO change with time. That is the one thing you do have ..time.
YOUR H and the OW are the ones feeling pressured and rushed. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> Don't be quick to join them in their Panic.

Next, You have a great benefit that even someone like your MIL is supporting you.
YOU do need Support in this time. This place is great, but the more you can get in your "real" world the Better. Never discount that asset.

I also like anyname's suggestion to kind of have your daughter back off with fighting with your H. This just gives him the ability to fight for and defend the OW.
Let him suffer in his guilt and shame in silence.
This is NOT an issue to fight about. HE IS WRONG...bottom line.
NO need to engage him and even give him the slightest opportunity to defend himself.
OW must go... the A must end.....no discussion and no debate. Always state this to him as a matter of fact and public record.

In addition, Good move in NOT  letting OW back to your Home. (IT IS YOURS! never forget that)
Yes, arrange for some other way for her to get her "stuff" (wanted to say sh*T)

Also, Please keep in mind that you are going to go through a whole host and range of emotions in your upcoming journey. YOU are only at the very beginning. Your still basically at the starting line.

At this time, Its natural to just want you H out of your life. Believe me this is the very first reaction of 99% of BS. We can never imagine a life with this "person" who we hurt us so badly, betrayed us so completely & we feel we really never even knew.

However, even should you choose to eventually D, you are still going to have to work through this process.
In time, you may see that it is worth it to YOURSELF, to at least make the attempt to reconcile. (Then you won't have as much guilt or regrets later thinking ....YOU could have done more and did you make a mistake).
Indeed, the attempting to work through this with your H is JUST AS MUCH for your own personal recovery as it is for the M.
In the end, even if the M should end in a D....at least YOU, haywire,  will be healthy and whole as a person.
Remember, no matter what ...YOU WILL have to work on this situation and problem.
Question is do you work through it alone or with him. ONLY you can answer that (and don't answer it NOW).
But those feelings come later.....so I suppose I'm jumping the gun here.

My disclaimer:
(Its tough sometimes to totally remember the stages and the "feelings" at each stage of recovery  once you've gone through the process. So forgive me when my advice seems to jump around) I just already know what challenges your going to face and just so desperately want you to continue on the stellar path you've begun and NOT step on as many of the "land mines" that I did.
Just having "been there" I tend to blend some of the time frames a want to blur or rush some of the advice (even when you as the person in the crises are not emotionally "ready" for the next step).
I am working on keeping that in mind. Only Want to help, not confuse or discourage.

To continue:
Just know that if your H really IS a sociopath (I don't know) then maybe you'd be better off without him.
I'm not there, but could you just be saying these things out of your pain (as we've ALL done) and not really mean them.  Just think about it.

Once again, you are doing an outstanding job!
Keep on the ball.

By the way one of your last posts  said your H had just come home (pulled in).
What happened with that?
& What plan are you in now?

You ARE going to make it through this! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Just a fact.
We will support  you in any way we can.
Thinking of you.
till next time

I wish I could have posted earlier today but can't from work. But I CAN read your messages and they helped me get through the day...

Top rope - I can only imagine the time and care you dedicated to writing your post and I studied all of it. Please don't worry about giving advice that I might not be ready for...I'll be ready for it someday and will know where to find it.

I wrote a looooong message to post here but LOST IT and now have to run to a friend's for dinner. I'm late. Will post later tonight in detail.

In the meantime...DD is doing well, staying strong, and has convinced me that she's become the adult in her relationship with her father. I'm doing ok, been riding a spiraling rollercoaster today. Met with an IC yesterday and have an appointment with a lawyer tomorrow...but will heed the advice and not rush into a D.

Thank you all so much...

haywire, glad you are doing ok, I have been checking all day. Please tell us how you are when you get a chance! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

haywire

ditto what ML just posted! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

This is going to be a long one!

Well, WH is still denying the A to everyone and has moved two projects that the OW was working on to a friend's studio about 15 miles away where WH/OW will work together. And he plans to continue his business at our home with DD. A mutual friend who talked to WH said that mostly WH spoke of his loyalty to the OW for her 15 years of hard work. The friend told WH that I'm very upset. Friend said WH's interpretation of my upset seems to be only that he know's that I'm angry. He has no idea of the pain although I've tried to tell him.

H has barely spoken to me since the exposure. He did tell me that he's not happy with the way I've put DD in the middle of this. I told him HE put DD in the middle of this. Then he blamed DD's friend for all our trouble (the friend and her boyfriend broke up about a month ago and she's been staying with DD till she rents an apartment). I guess he thinks she put all these crazy ideas in my head <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I asked him how DD's friend could have forced him to have an A??? He said she's a troublemaker...He's also blamed his brother for all this because his brother is having marital problems. I think this is typical sociopathic behavior -- blaming others for his problems. Not accepting responsibility or having remorse.

The fact that his mother described him as a sociopath and used the term "arrested development" makes me wonder if he might have been diagnosed with the disorders when he was a teenager. The IC echoed that thought. A mother wouldn't normally use those terms to describe her son. He was diagnosed with those disorders by the two MC's we saw years ago.

He left last night saying he was going to stay in a motel. Returned saying the motel was closed (do motels close on Mondays? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> and there are 3 motels within 5 miles of home). I didn't say much. I feel better if he's not here but I didn't tell him to sleep elsewhere. Then he left again, screeching his truck down the street like a mad teenager. That was about 8 PM and I thought he was gone for the night.

About 11 PM DD came into my house and said that he'd hidden his truck in a building at the back of the property. That was especially weird because to get there he had to drive down the driveway, and all evening I was in a room where I'd see and hear anyone driving in. I never saw him. He must have driven in slowly with the headlights off and snuck around to the back...He spent the night sleeping in his truck.

DD is trying to establish NC...Today he asked DD if she's ever speaking to him again. She said not as long as he's having contact with OW. He asked her if he should leave the business and she said yes if he's going to continue having contact with the OW. This was all on her own. She and I hadn't talked about the importance of NC but she knows by instinct.

Today DD explained to a client the reason that OW is no longer working here. When she told me the client's response it hit me hard. The client, who has been at many of the out of town shows with WH/OW, was shocked....shocked that we didn't know about the A. She said that she was told by several people (I don't know who) that it was an "arrangement" that I knew about and accepted. She said she first knew of the A a few years ago when she saw the hotel room WH/OW were staying in, and saw that the bed had been shared.

I felt so ANGRY after hearing this! It was anger and panic. Even though I know about the A I was hit so hard. Why? Was it because the betrayal suddenly became more real? or because I felt like a fool? or because of H's disregard for his daughter who was also at those shows? I spoke with the IC and she told me to vent by writing about it (thank you MB forum!), to talk about it with friends and to call him every name in the book -- but not to his face. Well, that's what I did and it helped. Guess this is the roller coaster, huh?

Before speaking with the IC I called WH 2x but he never answered. Probably a good thing. I probably would have LB'd. I didn't leave a message but still expected he'd call back because his phone would show my cell # as two missed calls. He never called which is a first. Seems like he's going the NC route with ME instead of the OW.

Tomorrow I meet with a lawyer to talk about preparation and to find out if he thinks the video is enough proof.

<small>[ July 21, 2004, 12:52 AM: Message edited by: haywire ]</small>

Hi Haywire...

You state:
"The client, who has been at many of the out of town shows with WH/OW, was shocked....shocked that we didn't know about the A. She said that she was told by several people (I don't know who) that it was an "arrangement" that I knew about and accepted. She said she first knew of the A a few years ago when she saw the hotel room WH/OW were staying in, and saw that the bed had been shared."

I don't know the nature of your business, but I find it strange that a client saw your H's hotel room *and* the bed? How did she know the bed had been shared? My H can sleep alone in our king size bed, and when he wakes up, it usually looks like he had a party on the bed!

You state:
"I felt so ANGRY after hearing this! It was anger and panic. Even though I know about the A I was hit so hard. Why? Was it because the betrayal suddenly became more real? or because I felt like a fool? or because of H's disregard for his daughter who was also at those shows?"

I'm sure it's a combination of all those things. Unfortunately, you will probably hear more & more 'stuff'. YUK!

You state:
"I wrote a looooong message to post here but LOST IT and now have to run to a friend's for dinner. I'm late. Will post later tonight in detail."

Whenever I read that someone has lost their posts, I feel compelled to respond. If it happens again, hit Control Z. That will bring back your text! It works in emails too. I learned this the hard way. It's the only keyboard command that I haven't forgotten, except for ctrl-alt-dlt.

Also, Again, I must tell you that you are an amazing & strong woman. For what it's worth, you are helping me, and you don't even know it!

Isleepwithacat

Haywire,

My thoughts are with you. You will feel overwhelmed by it all, but those emotions do pass with time. Talking, writing do help.

As time goes on, you will find evidence of the affair which if you had been in the suspecting frame of mind, you would have picked up on. These will be triggers to your feelings of anger, betrayal, sadness just not knowing what to do. You will feel foolish that you did not pick up on these before. I felt the same. It is because we have a trusting nature. We could not envisage ourselves in an affair and so we do not expect this from our husband.

You will look at life and other couples in a different way.

I will be praying for you. Keep strong. Look after yourself. Give that your top priority.

Anne

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by haywire:
<strong>He never called which is a first. Seems like he's going the NC route with ME instead of the OW.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">haywire, I get the feeling that he is trying to manipulate you right now. That was pretty apparent with the hotel thing. When he came back he expected you to beg him to stay there for the night, but when you didn't, he left mad. I imagine he was pretty angry that he had to sleep in truck! Not answering your calls is another indication of this. He is trying to manipulate you into submission, IMO.

Don't play his game!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Tomorrow I meet with a lawyer to talk about preparation and to find out if he thinks the video is enough proof.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Enough proof for what, haywire? What exactly are your next steps?

What

Haywire,

Just a thought I had today. Your husband is denying the affair. She told you she did not have sex with him. Perhaps, they have not had sex and in your husbands and her eyes they have not been having an affair. Kissing and hugging yes. If there is semen on his undergarments, It still does not indicate he had penetration sex, which in most mens eyes constitutes an affair.

Clinton did not consider oral sex as cheating. My husband was writing love letters via the internet, phoning and sending gifts to a woman in Europe for 9 months. Because they had not met, my husband did not consider it an affair.

I would not put so much weight on that colleagues comment about the bed appearing to have had both slept in it. Why was he/she in the bedroom and how can you tell how many people have slept in a bed just by looking at it.

You are in my thoughts. Let us know how you go.

God Bless,

Anne

Anne, you really are innocent aren't you? Bill C. was in a fog. If he wasn't, he'd know he had "sexual relations' with that woman. An intelligent man like that knows what he's doing - but he's on the 'feelings modifies thoughts modifies behavior' magical mystery tour. (and add modifies intelligence for a bit of added humor).

Like you I was a bit stumped by the girl saying she hadn't had sex with HW's H. That's coz I'm a BS and I don't lie and I can never get my head around other people lying. I always assume the truth from others.

Affair's are full of lies. Those two have been at it for years - or alternatively HW has the whole thing totally wrong. And MR HW isn't acting like he's an innocent man with nothing to be afraid of. If he was innocent he'd be quietly telling his distraught wife to take it easy sweetie, I love you, and I'd never hurt you in such a way. Instead he's telling her she comes 6th?? on his list of favorite people and getting all defensive with her - and protecting the OW, for all he's worth. If he was only kissing the girl he'd come clean on that too. Coz men think that's nothing - in compariosn to intercourse. So he's be yelling it from the roof tops. Hell, honey, I just kissed her!

it's awful I know.....

Things are getting even worse. Before getting into that I'll try answer the questions Isleep and ML posted.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Isleepwithacat:
<strong>.... I don't know the nature of your business, but I find it strange that a client saw your H's hotel room *and* the bed? How did she know the bed had been shared? My H can sleep alone in our king size bed, and when he wakes up, it usually looks like he had a party on the bed!
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know the specifics but can describe how it easily might have happened. The client was staying at the same motel as WH/OW. She may have met them at their room before going out to dinner with them or before going to the show. If the room only had one bed or had 2 beds and only one was used, with all the pillows on one (which DD's friend saw in another instance) that's pretty conclusive. Or she may have been walking by their room when they opened the door to come out and she saw into the room. It's pretty common for people traveling together to know who's staying in what room, and to meet at one of the rooms before going somewhere. The client is a happily married doctor who isn't looking to start a rumor or jump to conclusions. She first noticed the situation several years ago and never mentioned it. So I have no doubt that she was only stating what she saw.

MelodyLane, thanks for asking "Enough proof for what, haywire? What exactly are your next steps?"

Besides proof for myself, I wanted enough proof to convince a judge. I want to be in the best position possible for myself and DD when the judge decides the distribution of property.

I expect that this is going to end in a D. I can't imagine staying married. But I hear the advice and know that I'm emotionally raw right now and shouldn't make any hasty decisions.

BUT WH is making it very difficult to NOT move quickly to a D. Today he verbally attacked DD for things at work. Trivial things that were done as they always are but today he found fault with them. He then exploded when he realized that DD looked through his business checkbook and is now aware of the amount he'd been paying OW while shortchanging DD. DD locked herself in her apartment while he screamed outside her door "YOU F****D UP!!!" at her over and over. Later in the day, after I got home from work, he left and DD and he ended up arguing over the phone. He's lost touch with reality and making no sense. He told DD that she "ran off" the OW. So that means he's blocked from his mind the real reason why the OW is gone and instead is blaming DD.

DD told him that the OW's client had come to our studio to encourage one of DD's clients to leave here and take her business to the OW. WH's response was bizarre and frightening. He screamed that DD's friend (who had nothing to do with this but in his mind is the "troublemaker" -- from the previous post) had 20 minutes to leave the property or he was going to drag her out by her hair and throw her out. I got on the phone and he screamed at me about the "troublemaker". Then he spent 10 minutes blaming me for putting DD in the middle of our problem. At that point I lost my cool and told him that his A with DD's coworker had involved DD. I tried to get him to talk to me about the A and he said we needed to. He said I don't know the half of it. I told him I'd meet him in a public place, a local restaurant and we could talk. But he said he wasn't ready to talk about it tonight. Then he escalated and said that they never had sex; he said he should just go the OW's house tonight and have sex with her to make this all worthwhile.

I told DD and her friend to leave and I'd meet them at a restaurant for dinner. After dinner the friend went to stay at another friend's house. By the time I got home, WH had returned and was asleep in the spare bedroom. DD is afraid to be alone working with him tomorrow. I told her if there's any hint of possible violence to dial 911 immediately. There will be other people coming to the studio at different times of the day. I don't know if I should stay home from work.

I don't think he'd ever hurt DD and I don't think he's at that point yet -- not until he hears from me that we're heading for a D...That could possibly bring him to violence (although he's never been physically violent). I know that I shouldn't rush into D, but I also don't think he should be living and working here, as volatile as he is.

:::He said I don't know the half of it.
::: Then he escalated and said that they never had sex; he said he should just go the OW's house tonight and have sex with her to make this all worthwhile.

Haywire, IF you don't know the half of it - AND he's never had sex with OW, then what's there to know. The saying "you don't know the half of it" is the same as saying that there's a huge amount that you don't know.

I guess it's time to have a calm chat to WH. Ask him to level with you as much as he is able to. So that you all have a chance to come to terms with the changes and hopefully move on. Even DD needs to be told the truth from him, so she can redefine her relationship with him. Normally offspring will accommodate infidelity in their parents - given time to come to terms with it.

I'm wondering why you H is SOOOOO defensive over your DD's friend? H's had a bee in his bonnet over her. I wonder why?

How are you HW? Are you sleeping ok? Are you eating alright? How are your nerves with all this?

thinking of you
an

I know you will be reading this, although not posting. I have been keeping up wiht your story and feel very bad about your situation. What a horrible way to live, for SOOOooooo long. It could have been so much better all these years.

Talking with the lawyer will give you strength. Your DD has REALLY been caught in the crossfire. Invite her to come onto the board too?

Have you thought about putting out a protective or restraining order? He is dangerous. Maybe a cooling off period until he can figure out how to contain his lies better, or give them up...

I was told this once, and you can watch people, when we are angry we revert back to the tools we learned when we were 2. We throw temper tantrums, we yell, kick, scream, we persuade, we cry, we manipulate to get what we want.

Your WH is pulling out all the stops, and he probly has more to try. You have upset his life, the life he has been happy with for the past 10(?) years. He has had his cake and was eating it too for Soooo very long and wants that back...how dare you for stopping him getting what he wanted.

On the OW end, are there important people in her life that need to know that this A was NOT Ok with you? Family, friends? Its eems they have been living in la-la land telling everyone this was hunky dorey with you. (My H tried the same thing).

You are strong, now how do you protect yourself and your DD from this raging child?

Don't jump to D right away, give yourself time to breathe, let the situation cool so that when property settlement comes up you can be more unemotional about it.

Don't know the half of it? Well isn't THAT an understatement. He probably feels compelled to hurt you as much as he feels HE is getting hurt and may weild the truth like a sword, or may get his senses about him and continue to lie.

There are YEARS of gory details you may never know, and it is probably FAR worse than your gravest suspicions. It is imagining how bad it could have been that can kill you though. Suffice it to say, tell yourself you are right, you have ALL the proof you need, it is HIS burden to prove to you his fidelity (which he can't do), and let it go at that.

Yep, he still sounds like he's trying to convince you he is NOT having an A. You know he is. He can give up now, you don't have to listen to his excuses anymore.