Hello All! I have been surfing the boards for the past couple of days and have finally decided to air my laundy. Forgive me if I do not use all the lingo, still new to this.

First off, I am the BS and my wife is the WS who was involved in an EA. (I think I got that all right) Anyway she has already posted in this forum and received some good help. I am not posting to refute her side or defend myself, I am looking for help and suggestions.

This is my first marriage and her third marriage. Her first husband was abusive. Her second husband was much older. She had a PA before second D. There are two children from the first M and they are both teens.

We have been married for 6 years. I am admittedly a financial wreck and have not been steadily employed for at least half of our marriage. I do own 2 small businesses that I have been trying to grow but have been depressed for quite a long time. I have also suffered from cranial-rectal inversion for quite a while. Things are finally starting to look better for both my businesses and I start a new job on the 15th. It is all too little too late. My W feels emotionally bankrupt.

We have been on an emotional roller coaster for the last year and especially the last 6 months. We have had MC and IC. The problem that I am having is that I love her and the kids. She seems to go through these stages where she is all for making our marriage work and then in a few days or a few weeks, she is back to wanting a divorce. She keeps saying that I will never change. I read her post in this forum and was hurt by the fact that she would never do our marriage over again. She has told me and the forum that she missed all the red flags. I do not deny the red flags. I was a bachelor that lived in a house that cost me no rent for over 5 years and I had never developed a budget and never saved a dime. I want to say that I saw red flags about her. I knew that she had been divorced twice. I also knew that she had a PA during the second marriage. I loved her and thought that we would balance each other out.

We have done the LB and EN and it pretty much shattered my world. The part about annoying habits hurt the most. Just about everything about me down to my breathing annoys or irritates her. As for her LB, if I try to do something that I think will make a deposit in her LB then I am trying too hard and if I do nothing then I am not trying hard enough. I think I have made changes in myself especially about how I spend money and more important in my temperment. I have been known to yell and rant. That was before I started taking meds. I never ever physically abused my wife or kids. I did spank them when needed and I will admit to completely loosing it one day and pinning my son to ground out of pure frustration. I have also crossed the line a few times with verbal abuse. The medications that I take every day have stopped that and I have been on them for 2 years.

I really want us to make this marriage work, but I realize that it takes 2. I don't know how much more indecision I can take. It is taking a toll on all of us. I apologize for a confusing post, but I needed spell it out. I am so confused at this point tha I don't know whether I should wind my butt or scratch my watch. Thank you for listening and for any help or advice. Feel free to use a 2x4, I have a pretty thick head.

I think as the BS you are feeling some pretty normal things.

I am in a weird state of mind right now, so will not unload like I want to (don't worry, no 2x4's for you, really a comment on the BALLS that some of these WS's will often have about meeting all their needs, as if they are saying "Meet all my needs, but not too many, or not in a needy way, and by the way, suck it up and don't act like you're hurting or your life is shattered by my adultery, just try to be a mind reader, but even then, it would not be good enough, because I am being a selfish, immature, irresponsible, fogladen person, and I AM REALLY the person who doesn't know my [censored] from a hole in the ground"). Wow. I guess I did unload after all. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Anyways, sounds very very normal. Gee. Doesn't that make you feel better. Probably not, but none the less, I think it a few HUGE steps that you are admitting to some serious mistakes you have made, and I think your willingness to make good on those mistakes is great.

I am going to sleep on this a bit, and will post a more thoughtful response tomorrow. In the meantime, do not give my thoughts much credence. Wait for the experts to share their wisdom! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

"Meet all my needs, but not too many, or not in a needy way, and by the way, suck it up and don't act like you're hurting or your life is shattered by my adultery, just try to be a mind reader, but even then, it would not be good enough, because I am being a selfish, immature, irresponsible, fogladen person, and I AM REALLY the person who doesn't know my [censored] from a hole in the ground").


ROFL all the way to the psych ward,

Shul

You can start in Plan A. Read all about it on the link in my signature line. We all have been through what you are going through. We will help and support you.

shul: What does ROFL mean? And are you insinuating I need a visit to the looney bin? Perhaps you are right. This whole Adultery mess has messed with my mind quite a bit. But I think that portrayal is quite literally the schizophrenia that most WS's spout out about what they "need" or "want" as they cannot even properly distinguish what they need or want.

Toad: Now onto to less angry thoughts about your initial post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We have been married for 6 years. I am admittedly a financial wreck and have not been steadily employed for at least half of our marriage. I do own 2 small businesses that I have been trying to grow but have been depressed for quite a long time. I have also suffered from cranial-rectal inversion for quite a while. Things are finally starting to look better for both my businesses and I start a new job on the 15th. It is all too little too late. My W feels emotionally bankrupt.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Big hint here. Financial security, or some sort of stability thereof, is a big need for your wife. I don't think she is asking for you to be Bill Gates, she just wants to feel safe and that you will properly contribute financially to the household. Hold tight until after the 15th. You are starting a new job that will alleviate it, but let's face it, you are not WORKING the new job yet...so this is still an unknown for her. You are really not meeting this need yet. In the meantime, stand up and cultivate some financial responsibility for yourself, your wife, and your family. Take a personal finance class if you have to. Buy a few personal finance books. Look over your current status and devise a budget. There was a period of time when my STBX went through several job changes, nearly bankrupting the family. And while I was always the primary breadwinner, and OK with that, I really struggled with having ALL of the financial burden for our family on my shoulders. The most ironic thing was, I was writing the budgets, figuring out what expenses could be cut, etc, and he was the one who was changing jobs to be a FINANCIAL PLANNER of all things. I remember how vulnerable, helpless, frustrated, and really, panicked I felt to not know how I was going to pay the mortgage. And how he did not seem to share my sense of worry or urgency. I have no idea if this is your situation, just sharing my feelings on that situation at the time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We have been on an emotional roller coaster for the last year and especially the last 6 months. We have had MC and IC. The problem that I am having is that I love her and the kids. She seems to go through these stages where she is all for making our marriage work and then in a few days or a few weeks, she is back to wanting a divorce. She keeps saying that I will never change. I read her post in this forum and was hurt by the fact that she would never do our marriage over again. She has told me and the forum that she missed all the red flags. I do not deny the red flags. I was a bachelor that lived in a house that cost me no rent for over 5 years and I had never developed a budget and never saved a dime. I want to say that I saw red flags about her. I knew that she had been divorced twice. I also knew that she had a PA during the second marriage. I loved her and thought that we would balance each other out </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">As far as red flags she missed with you, still sounds like that financial need she has. And this is not a rocket science fix. Seriously. If someone like me who can BARELY add can write and keep a budget, you can. I use quicken to help me manage my home finances, and even when happily married, handled the household books, so get on this...she needs you to. As far as red flags with her, I would agree you missed a few. Basically you missed that she was very vulnerable to having an affair if her needs were not met. But then again, Toad, isn't really everyone vulnerable to this. HAVEN'T WE ALL MISSED THIS FACT. I never ever ever ever ever ever dreamed my husband would do what he did, and he did, and I took for granted that he wouldn't, and now I am the dumb you know what, over here looking like a chump.

I really want to comment on your next part, but I have to run. Going to see spiderman with the kids. Will hop back on later.

deleted it because I quadriple posted.

<small>[ July 05, 2004, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: SerendipiT ]</small>

not sure how...but was trigger happy on this post. deleting the duplicate.

<small>[ July 05, 2004, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: SerendipiT ]</small>

deleted dupe

<small>[ July 05, 2004, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: SerendipiT ]</small>

continuation of my not so ground shaking, earth shattering thoughts.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> We have done the LB and EN and it pretty much shattered my world. The part about annoying habits hurt the most. Just about everything about me down to my breathing annoys or irritates her. As for her LB, if I try to do something that I think will make a deposit in her LB then I am trying too hard and if I do nothing then I am not trying hard enough. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Toad, I am not gonna gloss this over. That sucks. As I said in my first post, it sucks that you have to bend over backwards meeting needs and your Wayward spouse is gonna be irritated by your breathing. It is not fair. It sucks.

But something wise I once read on this site said "Do you wanna be right or do you wanna be married." The bottom line is, you have the unique, proud, stellar, above board position of doing everything you could in your power to save your marriage, even when all indicators pointed to the fact that you really should not have been doing the lionshare of work. You, my friend, while you had faults you have bravely admitted, get to be in short the hero. If your efforts right now to suck it up and stop breathing so much in front of your wife (just joking of course) save your marriage, one day you can look back on this and really be proud of what you have done. Likewise, if your marriage fails, you can one day look back on this and really be proud of what you have done. Either way, you will be happy you did this.

Also, I want to share with you an old list that has been on the site for some time. It is Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list. Basically, one can meet needs, without being needy. And while I cannot identify with this as the betrayed spouse who was DYING INSIDE, I guess I can intellectualize how we can seem a little bit irritating, and the whole "a day late and a dollar short" premise can seem to settle in, with the wayward spouse saying, WHY DIDN'T YOU DO ALL THIS STUFF BEFORE THE PROBLEMS ESCALATED, etc. Anyways, here it is:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or
implore.
2. No frequent phone calls.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage.
4. Do not follow her around the house.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future.
6. Do not ask for help from family members.
7. Do not ask for reassurances.
8. Do not buy gifts.
9. Do not schedule dates together.
10. Do not spy on spouse.
11. Do not say "I Love You".
12. Act as if you are moving on with your life.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.
15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse her whereabouts, ASK NOTHING.
17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what she will be missing
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show her someone she would want to be around.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on
hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while).
21. Never lose your cool.
22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic.
23. Do not argue about how she feels (it only makes their feelings stronger).
24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil).
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly.
29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest
CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write.
30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse.
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes.

The point here is to meet as many needs as you can, without seeming like the pathetic puppy dog type. Be kind and warm, but not oozing in it. And if your crazy [censored] wife can't stand to see you breathe, than get busy breathing somewhere else, with a new hobby, some new SAME SEX friends, playing with the kids, working out, induldging in things that make YOU smile or quicken YOUR breath a little. Hopefully the renewed shine in your eyes, kick in your step, and smile on your face that you yourself concocted, will be enough to make her WANT you to breath more around her. Sheeze. It makes me mad just to type it. Refer to my first post! Hang in there buddy.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I think I have made changes in myself especially about how I spend money and more important in my temperment. I have been known to yell and rant. That was before I started taking meds. I never ever physically abused my wife or kids. I did spank them when needed and I will admit to completely loosing it one day and pinning my son to ground out of pure frustration. I have also crossed the line a few times with verbal abuse. The medications that I take every day have stopped that and I have been on them for 2 years </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can relate to you here. I was affectionately, or not so affectionately, known as "Old Yeller" in my house. What I realized was my anger, or bad temperment was a cover for some things that were really going on inside of myself. Some pain. Some dissapointments. Some unmet needs that my husband was WAY missing the mark on for me, and I immaturely let them manifest like a 2 year old having a temper tantrum.

My marriage is pretty much dead, and I will soon be divorced. I did learn, however, that there is a much healthier way to communicate these needs than yelling or rage. I have learned that these Marriage Builder principles really do work, and a little bit of calm communication, the policy of joint agreement, and some negotiation would go a long way, much longer than my old coping methods. Which is really ironic. I am a consummate professional, negotiate all day long in my line of work, and would never dream of acting in front of my colleagues like I have in the past with my husband. Lessons learned.

So maybe this is the wake up call you need to fix these issues in your marriage and come to a happier place, before too much damage has been done.

Good luck. Read everything you can about plan A, and I would encourage you to get counseling from the Harley's. A lot of us here can feel your pain.

shul: What does ROFL mean? And are you insinuating I need a visit to the looney bin? .

No I was relating to what you wrote, and 'rolling on the floor laughing' , on MY way to the looney bin!

But you are certainly welcome to join me there. We can decorate, play cards...and those jackets with the buckles are tres chic.

I love cards.... skip bo, uno, maybe even strip poker (we will definitely need those jackets then)! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

SerendipiT,

Thank you so much for your words of wisdom and understanding. I empathize with your situation. My wife has already been to a lawyer and has papers drawn but they have not been filed yet. We are kind of stuck in our house until next February. I figure I can at least build enough track for the roller coaster until then.

Today she went to the zoo by herself. I stayed home and cleaned house. We have our own little zoo with 3 dogs and 5 cats. The animal hair stampedes through house. I have to get back to cleaning before the hair regroups for a second attack.

Thanks again and I am hangin' in there (although sometimes it feels like I'm hanging from the end of rope)

Toad.

You'll make it. Not sure if you are a spiritual person, but it really helped me when I was in my MONTHS of plan A (seriously, I did a stellar Plan A for an eternity), was when I would think of how I was doing kind actions, meeting needs, self sacrificing and sucking up all my pain, that I was doing this unto God, that literally Christ was standing right behind WH's shoulders smiling on at me as I acted way more graciously than WH deserved. It kinda helped me to identify more with Christ, because if he could suck it up and DIE for me, the undeserving heathen I am, I can suck it up and try to meet WH's needs.

Maybe that will help a bit! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Just thought I would write a follow up. My wife has decided that all the advice that she has received from about her EA does not apply to her. She feels that we had these problems at this time last year and that the OM was not a part of the picture, so the OM has no effect on our relationship. She has made contact with her lawyer and at this point plans to go ahead with the divorce. She has moved all her belongings out of our bedroom and has set up her own bedroom. She sees the OM at her church on Wednesdays and Sunday. They are both involved with one of the choirs. She loves music and singing and feels that since I don't share the same talent and desire that we are not a good match. She has said that even if I became perfect that it probably would not be enough. She says that she cares for me, but does not feel that she loves me. She also does not want to hurt me but feels somewhat justified because I have "hurt" her for so long.

In her post she describes her previous marriages and says that she greatly regrets ending her second marriage. Her second husband is a good man and I have met him. He is much older than my wife and has just as much in common with her as I do. His financial situation is much better than mine and has money because he never spends it.

Anyway, I guess it is just a matter of time before the EA begins again. I am afraid that she might take it to the next step this time just make it easier for me to want this divorce and give up.

It is all fog talk. And it seems as if she is headed down the same road, a string of endless destroyed marriages. She is destined to be Elizabeth Taylor, married 49 times.

Hang in there. Be confident. Know you are a good man. Do not make excuses for who you are. And start working on the things you want to improve. You are not in control of her choices, or her perceptions, not matter how right or WRONG they are. Just do the best you can with YOU! And do the 180 list, and do your own thing.

Her: I don't love you, Toad

You: Ok, dear. I know, you have mentioned that. Pass the salt, please.

Her: We have nothing in common.

You: So you have mentioned. Would you like to join me for dinner tonight at XYZ restaurant.

Her: I like the choir, and OM likes the choir, and you do not, which must mean that we are not meant to be, and me and OM are meant to be.

You: Right. So, did you want to rent a movie tonight.

Her: I wish I would have never divorced H #2. He was a good man.

You: Mmm-hmm. Let's go for a walk tonight, it is a beautiful night.

Let it roll off your back, baby. She might as well be saying, BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH. Like the adult characters in Charlie Brown cartoons. Maww Maww, Blah Blah, Maww Maww, maw maw maw.


<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

bump

Toad - They all think that any advice on their fantasy does not apply to them. Somehow they all think they are different, even though each affair is like all the others.

SerendipiT has given you some good advice. Follow it. Also you might talk to the pastor of the church about this inappropriate friendship that is about to cause your wife to divorce you.

Believer,

Thank you for your response. I am lucky in the fact that my priest is one of best friends. We have been through thick and for over 20 years. He is the one that married us and he has spoken with us both. My W however is now going to another church that she feels meets her needs better. It is a huge church and offers many programs, classes, counseling, and a good singing group. My wife loves to sing and feels that she would die if she could not. Another perk is that the OM also goes to this church and is involved in the same singing group. Our kids (my stepkids) still go to church with me. We gave them the choice of which church to attend. Of course, they both said that they did not want to go to church. I am glad that my W did not cave in and allow them to just stay home on Sundays. We both said that they only had 2 choices and that staying home was not one of them.

I try to believe my W when she says that her and OM do not plan anything and that they just run into each other, but I feel that she plans things in the hopes that she will just run into him. She likes to ride her bike now, which she would not do before because it hurt her arm injury from a bad accident. We have many bike paths in our area but she loads her bike onto her car and takes it over to the next town to ride on the same path that travels through our town. This town is also where OM lives and he lives only a block away from the bike path. I have also noticed that she is using her cell phone to call OM. Only twice this week and only for a minute, but she says that she does not email or call him. Plan A is difficult but I will keep trying.

I think I would talk to the priest at the other church. He may speak to both of them. Changing churches is very common.