I plan to go to Plan B soon. WH and I had a long talk yesterday. I see that he loves me, but he feels he loves her more. H doesn't see how we can work when he has feelings for her. I have read so many times here that most WS continue to have feelings for quite some time, but they can recommit to their M and make it work. H doesn't know how to get "feelings" back for me. WH doesn't seem to know how to get thru the withdrawl. He is very confused and I think hearing from other WS could help him. I have referred him to this and other websites, but he doesn't read enough to wade thru the posts to find ones that could help. So I am begging for help from FWS that could communicate with my H and let him know the feelings he is having is normal and how you came to the conclusion that OP and that life was a fanasty. I know plan B will help him see how much he has to lose in me and his beautiful DD, but I think hearing it from those who have lived it would be beneficial. H feels very alone in his feelings. I think h is dealing with guilt and he thinks starting over will help him escape what he has done(that's my guess anyway) Hearing the mistakes others have made and how they corrected them could be helpful.

Here is his email: joemar3@hotmail.com

Thank you in advance for those of you willing to help me and him get our M back. I know we could have a great life if he would give it a chance and give me a chance

Hello! Your post truly touched me. I am a FWS. My husband and I are in the recovery process and I will say, it is not easy, but well worth it. I do understand your husband's feelings...guilt, shame, helpless, hopeless, and looking for an escape. Right now, he's in the "fog". The key to recovery is NO CONTACT, NO CONTACT, NO CONTACT with her. That may be very difficult, as it was for me. I could not see what my A was doing to my family. I was being selfish, not to mention cruel, to all who cared about me. This A is an addiction and it seems that the "easiest" way out, would be to just start over. Trust me, I finally have my eyes open and if it weren't for my persistant H and MB, I would have made a huge mistake. I would be so happy to contact your H and hopefully, he would be willing to share his feelings with me. My H still has a hard time understanding some of my feelings and actions. Please let me know if you'd like me to contact him. BEST OF LUCK.

to Joe:

OW is not the "woman of your dreams" or your "soulmate" or whatever you may think. OW is a person with some very real and serious problems. Why? No emotionally stable person would become involved with a married man with a child. If you get divorced, you would have to give perhaps 30%, 40% or more of your income to your W for alimony and child support. And that is just the financial cost--that doesn't even begin to address the emotional turmoil and continual interaction caused by the inevitable tension created by having a child involved in a D.

Think about it. No rational woman would get involved with a married man.

You say you love OW. You don't even know OW. You haven't met her family and her friends.
The only thing you have done is shack up for a few hours a week. You live in a little world of motel rooms and back seats of cars where dishes never have to be washed, lawns don't have to be mowed, bills don't have to be paid and kids never get sick.

What you are in love with is a fantasy. It doesn't exist. It is Disneyland, and you are Goofy.

The only way out is to STOP SEEING OW. You have to try to make the M work. I know it is easy to say and very difficult to do, but it is the only way.

J, I need to ask: Did your H give you permission to give out his address on a public web site? It would be a major LB if he suddenly gets a number of unfamiliar emails regarding what he considers his personal business without his prior knowledge not to mention that he needs to be receptive in the first place.

Most of the female FWS know not to exchange emails (regardless of topic) with males to begin with so this is also an issue. I know it's hard when the spouse doesn't want to or can't take the time to read or post here and it seems direct communication would be easier but perhaps you could take the time to print out the replies you get here and give them to him in the time period before your Plan B.

Quickly for Joe: My perspective of OM is radically different two years down the road. Many/most/no, all of us former waywards end up saying "What was I thinking?" You will too in time, trust me.

It is entirely too difficult to build a new life on the ruins of someone else's, no matter how "wonderful" the OP seems to be. There is always a price to pay for willfulness, the smallest part of which is dissillusionment with the OP.

Joe, you have a wife who loves you and is willing to stand by you in spite of your obvious failure to stand by her. You know nothing of OW's strength of character because it has not been tested with you. Do not throw your family away lightly for the unknown. Some things are not meant to be known anyway. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You made a serious error in getting involved with OW, but all is not lost. You CAN establish no contact, you MUST establish no contact, because only then will you be able to think clearly. You are confused right now and that's normal. Don't make it worse by continuing in what caused the confusion in the first place.

Relationships that do not include kids, mortgages, bills ect always seem easier, but real life includes those very things. It IS a fantasy with OW Joe, so time to stop. Dream's over. Do the right thing, be a man, be a good husband and father, be able to look your wife in the eyes without guilt again. Feel good about yourself, about life again. You can do this but it is a CHOICE. Make the one you won't regret not the one that will only cause more grief to all involved. It ain't gonna last with OW Joe, no doubt about it. Put the brakes on, ok? KB

My H is truely trying. I see that he wants to be with his family, but struggles over the feelings he now has for OW and thinks that he lost for me. It has been a difficult time for us with 3 false recoveries. Joe knows that I was going to share his email. I think he is receptive for help, just doesn't know how to get it. He would never post here and I'm sure will not respond to any emails, but I know he will read them. He is clearly searching for answers and I know he feels very alone in where he is at. He has read posts here, but to be honest you mostly find BS helping each other here.

Mrs. E and anyone else - I would love if you would help shed light on things for my Joe. He needs to be touched now before he loses everything that I know he will truely find important to him someday. I see him wanting to love me, but is scared over losing OW. I think anyone who can share their story with him will help. He needs to be told about the withdrawl and how to deal with it from someone who has lived it. He tells me daily that I could never understand and I can't.

The OW had her ex-H have an A on her. My H doesn't seem to recognize her character. He sees only the good. We desperately need help. Thank you for those that respond to him. Hopefully you can help me save this M.

bump

jmislost, Your H sounds like mine.... he needs to see there is a reason he is still with you, if he was sure of her he would be with her but he is still with you.

Not too long ago I asked my H in C office, why doesn't he just jump in 100% to this marriage, what does he have to lose? He looked me straight in the eye and said I might lose her... That day he realized what an addiction he had and began the process of looking deeper. Today he says he knows she is not the answer that he is here because he knows he and I can have a great relationship. Yet he still wonders if part of him is held back because of her. My C says he will slowly realize the truth about ow and she will fade into the background.

That you H is searching for answers is a good sign. That is exactly how my H was and is. It is hard work as he navigates through his iner psych and realizes much about his childhood. Is your H getting C it has saved us.
km4

My H refuses MC. H went to a terrible IC and it has jaded his opinion.

H and I talked tonight. I feel like I am being a MC with all the things I have learned here. Sometimes I think he thinks I just say things to push him my way. That is why I am searching so much for FWS that can help him see things for what they are.

Tonight we talked about how if she was so right. Why didn't he take her home to meet his parents? And let them see who was breaking up his family.
We also touched on how H becomes obsessed with things and has problems letting go.
I think Plan B is the way for me to go so he can miss me. I am just trying to finish with a great Plan A, so he can remember the best me. Please help me get him out of the fog if you can. He seemed interested in what other FWS had to say. He didn't care at all that I gave his email address. (joemar3@hotmail.com)
Thanks again for the support.

Still looking for help

You aren't going to get if you attack OW. OW is not an evil monster. She is just another human being with faults, like we all have. He doesn't see her faults for what they are because of the nature of an A.

An example: I didn't find out that my OW was a bigot until near the end. Why? We didn't do anything other than [censored] at a motel. You really don't learn much about the other person other than her favorite positions.

He has probably created a fantasy about how his life with OW will be. Once you start deconstructing the fantasy, the A will go away. Plan B is a way to say, "Hey, you want her. You got her. So, is it what you thought it would be?"

Start putting legs on the A: Where is he going to live, how much child support will he pay, what visitation does he expect to have, what kind of relationship does he think he will have with his child, etc.

And, of course, there is the age old question: If OW is so wonderful why hasn't WS left? Of course, there is the old 'why buy the cow when you can get the milk through the fence'...but, also, WS *knows* that OW won't work out.

I'm also an expert at ending an A...I did it four times. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

If he thinks withdrawl is bad when he cuts it off with OW, he should consider what it will be like when you cut it off with him. WS ending an A is like quitting smoking--tough, but doable. WS losing BS is like giving up heroin--darn near impossible. He'll end up doubled up in a room somewhere with dry heaves.

Hi,
I'm a former WS.

I ended up divorced because of it. My exH and I remarried six months ago and things are going great.
The A lasted four years, and my husband and I were separated/divorced for over three years. I saw the OM for what he was, in clear light, after the A had been going on for quite some time. I had inklings, but there was 'fog'.

Give it time. Your husband will wake up, most likely.

A few holidays and special occassions alone might motivate him too. Seeing misery in your children's eyes will help too. Seeing you moving on with your life in a positive way might do the trick as well.

I don't mean to sound trite, but there are no easy answers. People caught up in an affair are like addicts on a drug. I was drawn to the affair partner like a moth to light. It was very sick and irrational.

Don't give up. My husband lost all feelings for me for years. They can return. (He lost feelings when he learned of my affair)

When I was in the affair I lost palpable feelings for my husband although I'm sure they were buried deep down. The affair took on a life of its own. It was a nightmare in every way and thinking of it and the man (OM) I thought I 'loved' makes me want to throw up.

Take care,
HP

Thank you for your replys. This is so hard. I see breaks in the fog, but as MelodyLane pointed out, it is definately time for Plan B. I just wanted him to have some responses that could be food for thought while I am in Plan B. H loves our DD dearly and somewhere in there I know he loves me too. If we could just get OW out of this "love" circle, we could have a great family. Thanks for your support. I wouldn't have made it this far without all of you.

Hi JM, you haven't told him about Plan B, have you? It is real important that he not be given an opportunity to "adjust" to the idea so please don't tell him, ok. It should be a complete surprise in order for it to have the proper effect.

When do you think you will go into Plan B? Have you started working on the letter and working out the details, ie: visitation, financial, etc?

I have not told him that I want to start a Plan B. He has stated that maybe he needs to be away from me to see what that is like. he knows how hard it is to be away from OW, but he has had me for 13 years in his life. He knows about Plan B from this sight, but I have never said that I want to start it. I have my letter finished. I meet with an attorney Tuesday. I wanted to see what an attorney suggested in terms of financial support and visitation rights. Also I don't want to do anything that could possibly hurt me legally if it would ever come to that. I have seen a different H lately. How do I go about things if he comes to me tomorrow and tells me lets try? Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I think it could happen. I don't want to be used again, but wouldn't a Plan B at that point hurt me. I have read all the MB concepts and books, but there are some points I am unsure of.

Does H being aware of the concepts of Plan B hurt me? Or is it just him knowing when I plan to start it?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by jmislost:
<strong> Maybe it is wishful thinking, but I think it could happen. I don't want to be used again, but wouldn't a Plan B at that point hurt me. I have read all the MB concepts and books, but there are some points I am unsure of. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You will be hurt continually until he ends contact with the OW, and he probably will not end contact until you go into Plan B. You are in this mess because you didn't have boundaries before. In order for you to work on your marriage, he needs to show a committment and end ALL contact with the OW. And the longer this is allowed to go on, the closer he will get to the OW.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I meet with an attorney Tuesday. I wanted to see what an attorney suggested in terms of financial support and visitation rights. Also I don't want to do anything that could possibly hurt me legally if it would ever come to that. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very good!!

Also, please post your Plan B letter so we can give you feedback. If its not right, you can defeat your purpose, so let us look at it and make sure you are conveying the right message, ok?

Its ok if he knows what Plan B is, but he shouldn't know in advance that you are planning this. And I wouldn't use that term in your letter.

So much for feelings. WH seems further now than in the past. Plan B for sure. We had the most wonderful last few days together. H told me I was everything he wanted, but was struggling with the love thing. We were laughing and having a great time. H even commented on how much fun I was and how much I changed. Well too good to be true. I knew I was getting too close. I simply asked about a search I found on the computer - not sure from when about sexual positions. H took it that I was asking about looking for things to do with OW (I guess) - H became mean with his words. Told me he hated me and that I would never change. H didn't want this anymore and he would be gone tomorrow and I could have it all the house,kid, everything. H wanted nothing to do with me. Why do I continue to be so dumb?? thinking things were working and the fog was lifting - Plan B - Here I come. Please tell me I have a better chance in Plan B. I will post my letter tomorrow for help with revisions if necessary - Too tired tonight. Also I could use some help with questions for the attorney.