Pepperband,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> But, that's my opinion....

I think she needs medical attention, a real life professional, not board member input.

The woman threatened suicide.... she needs mental health services....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First I want to say thanks. You have a demonstrated history of being helpful to people here and your advice is sound. So I know you are not being malicious in what you are writing. I have seen how acute you are. Your ability to read between the lines HAS been demonstrated quite well with your responses to many posts I have read.

This is getting a little out of hand, however. Both you and believer. You are not SEEING and HEARING RAP. I AM.

I know what has gotten you guys concerned, but it is NOT a concern. She did apologize for making the statement shortly after she made it.

I could go into detail explaining WHY I am not concerned, but that wouldn’t really be fruitful here.

Short story is, she was never “heard” growing up and has developed this response of overstating her feelings because she feels she has to to be noticed. End of story.

She has been in IC on and off for some time. In fact, she has an appointment tomorrow that was scheduled long before all this happened.

RAP and I both have been posting a tremendous amount of RAW FEELING here. We both see benefits in ourselves and each other.

I have read the last few pages of her thread now and don’t see much difference other than RAP seems to be posting what she feels as she feels it with little hesitation.

I actually see, feel, hear RAP and I am not getting any signals. I usually LB her, piss her off royally, watch her stomp back into the bedroom, here the keys click at light speed, than watch her come back out relieved.

I think she gets a lot of support from the board and would hate to see her choose to not use this as a resource. I think she can express a little more freely here than she can to another person. She has a support network, but there is nothing like talking with people who have been there. No one in her network of “real” people has.

The “tone” of your post is almost like you aren’t acknowledging that RAP exists anymore. But then again, I am not seeing or hearing you. Just what you type.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The board environment with a particular group of WW / OW posting to each other how much they miss OM is DESTRUCTIVE to these women and it should STOP..... in my opinion.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I do agree with this statement. Life and death is in the power of the tongue and I firmly believe you can speak things into existence. Makes me want to tear my hair out when I hear where all this “energy” IS going and think of where it could be going.

Shul,

When your husband spanks your kids, do you say that to him too?

NCWalker

NCW...I don't think that I've had the pleasure of communicating with you here before. I'm assuming that you are RAP's h. I have to tell you, I love her to death. She is an awesome person and I have been, as well as some others here, right where she is. You sound a lot like my H, very strong and supportive. NCW...you too sound like an amazing person yourself...I would say that you two are well matched.

Take care of each other and above all else, try to be patient with her, ok? My prayers are with you two.

Lisa103.

Thanks for the sentiment. RAP is fine. Just tired of all this stuff. We all need a break sometime. She is watching TV. I'll tell her your message. We are packing, etc. to go link up with the 3DS.

Why does everyone think I am so impatient? Maybe I am just passionate. Yeah, that's it. A passionate man. A geeky, passionate man. Well maybe not that. I'll quit at passionate man.

NCWalker

nc...lol..I'm sorry about the patient comment. That was strictly an off the head comment because I know that my H has had to be very patient with me and my moods. I'm sure that you are very patient. If you're like my H though he sometimes gets frustrated when he can't fix what is wrong. That's a guy thing, I think. I totally understand about the need to take breaks from MB sometimes too. I think we've all been there before.

Take care!

I'm a geek, remember.

I CAN FIX ANYTHING

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA (insane, comic book villan type laughter).

NCWalker

A geek who can't spell "villain"

Frustation = not being able to control anyone but yourself.

Even though you know you have the best of intentions in mind, you still can only control yourself.

Hang in there, your courage is awesome.

NCW: Good job guy! And continue to hang in there. My ears hear that you may now be able to work on your recovery.

I also wanted to add an apology here to RAP. RAP if I said anything that offended you, I am sorry. It was just so frustrating watching you two these last couple of days. Best of luck to the both of you.

Also, enjoy the rest of your vacation <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
R

Thanks for your insight NCW. I really do find your way of writing very enlightening and easy to comprehend. I do trust your judgement. So.... I am not going to defend my opinion ... because when it comes to this... you are working with, and living with the actual data in real life, and I have only an opinion based on message board verbage. You are really an excellent writer. You are in the vortex, and only you can describe the weather conditions.

I am reading a little book to help me deal with an "adult" child who is out of control....

And today I read this:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I read a story about a Zen seeker who goes to the master and sits across the table at tea time.

The Zen master holds a stick in his hand and he says, 'If you drink your tea, I will hit you with this stick. If you don't drink your tea, I will hit you with this stick.'

So what do you do?

Well, I think I figured it out. Take away the stick."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for you reply, setting me straight.

Pep

Pep -

Thanks for your reply to. I know lots of us here are hurting, and trying to help others.

You have helped me a lot, and I will take your advice. I will continue to support both the BS and WS, but will stay away from encouraging either side to wallow in their pain.

Good morning!?!?

I can't tell what time it is anymore. My bio. clock (Cicadian rythymns, oooh spiffy word) is all out of wack.

I bundled up RAP and brought her down to Grandpa's just in time to celebrate birthday of DS #3, who apparently had decided to leave the family and change his name to Spiderman. Don't ya love the little ones?

RAP was dreading the drive - 12 hrs with me. I can understand. We actually had a wonderful conversation. She is still a little distant, but I am OK with that, she is safe. I expect it will take some time to heal her wounds.

Anyway, drive down was better than either of us expected. We even laughed and joked. Been a while since any of that happened.

So we have a few days away from triggers. Lots of tension seems to be gone, we'll see what happens when we head back home. I am hopeful and I think RAP is too.

NCWalker

Good to hear that - keep hanging in there.

Dear NC & RAP,

How are you both?

Are you still away or back now? Glad to hear your latest news about the weekend with grandpa & son's birthday.

I guess I got myself a bit messed up over the last few days (see other thread), but hopefully I think I am starting to move on a bit.

I am just sitting on the pc listening to some christian ministry, while family in bed. Will be getting ready for church soon.

Just wanted you to know and thinking of you both.

Take care,

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

RAP/NCW,


Just checking in....want you to know we haven't forgotten you. RH went back to work this week after almost three weeks off. Yuck! He said he should've taken another week off....I said "You had to go back sometime, might as well make it when it's only a 4-day week!"

Was afraid withdrawal would kick back in or something for me when he went back to work, but figured if it did, it did....not much I can do except keep plugging away! Fortunately, I was fine!

THinking of you,

Julie

Dear RAP/NCW

Just going to log off soon. Wanted to say goodnite to you both.

Have just taken a tablet so am just bit woozy.

I have been talking to H about that list you mentioned for us to do.

We have only come up with 2 things so far!!!

HIM - Would like to ask MIL to look after youngest girl so we can go on a picnic together next Saturday in a nice scenery place for the day.

ME - Would like him to show more interest in the books I have been buying:

Torn Asunder
Sexual one (as recommended by pep)
emotional needs

I said can't you think of anything else to go on yourlist and he said no because he is happy with me and I make him happy?

He said to me today no matter what I do/don't feel about him, he loves me and will stick by me altogether.

I feel sad if you can understand me,because how can he be happy with me?? He gets 'no frills' and limited time and conversation, yet he is so easy going he seems happy enough in it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Well I guess this week will sort out this week..

Take care you guys,

Love and blessings to you both,

Goodnite,

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BV,

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He said to me today no matter what I do/don't feel about him, he loves me and will stick by me altogether.

I feel sad if you can understand me,because how can he be happy with me?? He gets 'no frills' and limited time and conversation, yet he is so easy going he seems happy enough in it </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your H is not happy, he is committed to the marriage, his vows, and you. What he is saying is that he is committed NOT that he is enjoying this one bit. He knows he can do nothing but ENDURE the marriage and pray that eventually you will want to be his W. I strongly suspect you are making a DJ if you think he is HAPPY with you. I doubt he is.

What you are seeing the LOVE as it is meant in your vows. It is a verb, and it is something you chose to do whether you feel like it or not. He is loving you because he made a vow to do it, NOT because he is happy with this situation.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Dear JL

You said:

What you are seeing the LOVE as it is meant in your vows. It is a verb, and it is something you chose to do whether you feel like it or not. He is loving you because he made a vow to do it, NOT because he is happy with this situation.

Of course I know you are right in this. He is committed to me and the vows we took.

I know M cant be same as it was before. I realise that even before A there were issues in communication etc that we hadn't dealt with.

I am in a circle going round though.

I am still in withdrawal and fog

He doesn't know how to help me

I don't what to tell him to help me

I feel I am beyond help in this area

We both therefore feel unable to help each other
He is sad inside and I don't know how to reach out to make him not sad. Not because I DON'T want to but because I CAN'T..

CAN't doesn't WON'T, it simply means CAN'T at the moment.

I guess there is no answer for me at the moment.

The only thing I guess, is to 'sit and see' this withdrawal and fog out?

I can't seem to make a step forward in MR until this fog has lifted more.

Something you said in a past post keeps going over in my mind (about 'that' side of things)..

You were talking about what it was like to look into the 'eyes' of someone you had made 'happy' and seen the look of 'happiness' in their eyes back at you?

This speaks of a deeply intimate 'moment' between two people.

Like in the book of Song of Songs in the Bible.

Deep passionate lovers together in a deep moment of intimacy together.

How?

Did this build up in time with you??

How does one go from the 'comfy' zone marriage into this?

To my deepest shame (don't give me 4x4 back, I am just wanting you to understand me at this time).. I had that 'connection' with OM.

It is painful to admit that to you, and submit myself to your 'response'.

Now I have to 'block' all my memories of 'that' with OM and make a new start and re-focus on making that same connection with H.

I want to do that.

I just don't know how far out of 'withdrawal' does someone have to go before they can be like that with H again? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Sorry, I am rambling.

You probably think I am crazy anyway in what I am saying. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Thanks for replying.

Kas

BV,

Of course you looked OM in the eyes and it was intimate. I would expect nothing less. That is the point, if you can do it with OM, you can do it with your H. Your mistaking the results with the causes. You did not do this because you were in love with OM, this is what MADE you in love with OM.

That is the part I am most frustrated with right now. You seem so hide bound to get this backwards. The feelings came because you did these things, not the other way around.

You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He doesn't know how to help me

I don't what to tell him to help me

I feel I am beyond help in this area </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No,you are NOT beyond help, you are just being hardheaded. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> All your H needs to hear from you is that YOU WANT HIS HELP. That you DESIRE his comfort, and that you need HELP to get out of the cicle you are in. Just simply tell him that, and then ask him to hold your hand, and perhaps you.

Baby Steps BV, that is all it takes. If he knows you want his HELP even if neither of you know what to do it will help him and it will help you. Open up that much, because BV your H needs YOUR HELP TOO.

Good Night.

God Bless,

JL

Dear JL,

Will think on these things you have said to me and reply on here later.(I do have bit different thoughts on this) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

It may help RAP if she is reading, too.

Thanks

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Dear JL (asleep) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

Seriously though of course you need to sleep and be re-charged.

I am going to post my reply to your post here on the other thread ("JL again please") because I don't want to hi-jack this thread for NC & RAP with 'my stuff' incase others want to post them.

I do appreciate your replies this morning. It's a good job you don't carry an MB 'beeper' thing or else it would be ringing all the time I guess. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Will start my post on the other thread now.


Dear NCW & RAP,

Hi again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Well I guess you can see from my posts thatI have been in a mess recently and calling out all over the show for JL over the weekend. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Weekends are my 'worst time' at the moment.

I do want to work this out though, and that's why am still here plodding on and working through withdrawal and trying to get some 'sanity' back into my life and stability.

Just wanted to say 'hi to you both' and especially RAP. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Love..

Kas <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />