I've read alot of posts on Plan A +B - also - Harleys concepts and maybe I'm looking at this incorrectly - But - wasn't I in Plan A before I was sure of the A's and while I was sitting back and gathering proof of the A's?

Before I confronted him I went on the vacations, family outings, etc. yet the A's still continued? Just because I didn't expose them shouldn't mean I wasn't already in Plan A. I was trying to make my WH see that our marriage was worth more than his A's..I tried to keep LB to a miniumum. It was mostly to defend myself from his LB. When I danced around our maritial problems and he told me all my "faults" I worked on changing and improving myself - I sought the help of a therapist, read books, found MB, etc. Yet, he never saw the changes never wanted to acknowledge that some of us can change..

So - was I in Plan A???? I have since confronted him, told his/my family and friends - but I have not confronted the OP or the OP husband(s).

Welcome to marriagebuilders. Yes you were in Plan A. Stay there. It takes time.

Also let the OW's husband know. That is necessary, and yes your WH will be angry.

Then I was in Plan A for about 4-5 months - which from what I have read is too long...

I know of 2 different women that my WH may be involved with - still not certain the level of involement. In the past year there have been 4-5 women that I'm a fairly certain he has had a PA with. Naturally, his A's are "my fault"...

Currently, I do not invite him to family or friends functions, we do not go anywhere together. he goes his way I go mine. I still cook and do the laundry, shopping, etc. Before we did things together and put up a good front in front of people. So that's not sticking with Plan A - but, since he knows that I know about these women - and he knows I'm unwilling to work on our marriage unless he gives up the A's. I feel that I'm in between Plan A and B. I do not think that I can do a good Plan B - since we own a business together and both work there every day. There is no way I can quit work and move out - it is against everything my attorney suggests.

I'd really like to find out WHY - he won't stop seeing these women. He will not go to a therapist to find the answers, he blames me..I believe he has strong narcissist personality traits, and that he could also be going thru mid-life crisis...

How long do I live in "limbo"...just riding down the "centerline" (for any horsey MB friends)????

I do not invite him to family or friends functions, we do not go anywhere together. he goes his way I go mine.

why are you two isolating one another...

but, since he knows that I know about these women - and he knows I'm unwilling to work on our marriage unless he gives up the A's.

what are his "reasons"...the things you do that "casue him" to have affairs... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

what does he say..

does he admit facts about the OP or does he just acknowledge you "know"....

plan a is Post D-day that helps in facilitating the end of an affair...

ark

why are you two isolating one another...

He isolates me more - than I him - he's angry - because I have found out the truth and have "snooped" where he feels "it's non of my business".

what are his "reasons"...the things you do that "casue him" to have affairs...

Well, from reading MB - he has most of the "typical" responses.

1. I'm a **** B%*^ (that said when I confronted him)
2.

See that's non plan a..

name calling on his part is cruel childish and a smoke screen...

that's one of the exact reasons that plna a calls for you to hold yourself in restrain...even when they are acting like (*&(*&%$$$

plan a is something you do INSPITE of his behavior and response in a sense..

this is not to say that is without boundaries and expression of your feelings...

but it is about in setting the tone and creating the right atmosphere to so he can hear and see your pain...

you need to start reinviting and including him in YOUR life....

again besides being mad you snooped... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
what does he claim are his reasons...

ark

why are you two isolating one another...

He isolates me more - than I him - he's angry - because I have found out the truth and have "snooped" where he feels "it's non of my business".

what are his "reasons"...the things you do that "casue him" to have affairs...

Well, from reading MB - he has most of the "typical" responses.

1. I'm a **** B%*^ (that said when I confronted him)
2. I flirt in front of him (only when we have been out for a couple of drinks and I knew about his A's- yes, I was trying to show him I can be desirable to other men.
3. I don't get along with his kids (which I've been working on for a year)
4. I spend too much time with my horse which I board 5 miles away (yes, I've admitted I was obsessed becoz of my unfulfilled maternal instinct) my pets are very important to me. I vowed to change and be home more. That sure went on deaf ears - his answers was "I'm fine" - yeah, once he found someone(s) to spend time with.
5. I'm a phony - not genuine ..Definately, not true - yes, I've lived a phony life with him and my M.
6. I smoke
7. Employees hate me - yes, the one he's been sleeping with would hate me.

does he admit facts about the OP or does he just acknowledge you "know"....

He fessed up to the one that he was seen entering a hotel room with - other than that he won't admit to anyone/anything else. He said it had been going on for a couple of months and they did not have "sex" - he never bought "rubbers"..Yeah right..
I had numbers on his cell phone checked and found another women I had her number checked (till she put a lock on it) and she was calling our business, home and his cell...All he says about her is "she's ^(%& ugly, and it's none of my business. The other women that called friends of mine - he said she had "issues"...She was a former employee..Since I see all the phone bills - he has now resorted to buying pre-paid phone cards..What a fool - 50 years old and playing kiddy games - to hide his female "friends". This isn't a game - this is my life...too..I just can't seem to figure out which women he's fallen the hardest for so that I can call her H. I can't call all these men since I'm not 100% sure - he did say I don't know everything - possibly one isn't M but may be living with someone.

My H can be very charming - and yes, we are financially secure, have a nice home, cars, business, etc. It's not that I've let myself go I take very good care of my appearence. He just doesn't notice anymore or seem to care. If he says anything it's to degrade my looks - I've lost too much weight (yeah, the "adultery diet" works better than Adkins). I'm getting wrinkles, yeah, at 47 I am..aren't we all. He never says anything positive anymore. THough, that all started once he found other women - which having money always makes the game easier to play.
s

I do not believe the narcissist in him will allow him to see my pain..I've expressed it but it never phases him.

How do you "include" someone when they are acting like such an *** and they do not include you in anything and they shut you out emotionally and physically? My life consists of work, home, going to the barn (which he has always refused to do) shopping (which he's refused to do in the past year)I don't do anything else.

If friends invite us to dinner (like we use to do) should we go as a couple? Seems like I'd be a phony - knowing what I know. I went along with everything even when I knew originally what he was doing - hopeing it would make it all go away - it didn't..His problem is he became blatant..

Did I work plan A backwards?

actually you haven't done plan a yet.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

not really...
what you've done is the confront and then retreat dance..till both have retreated to the farthest corners...which has now become status quo....

the question is do you want to do plan...
then you have to establish the guidelines before you even start...

with a set time frame with plans to then move to plan b...
what are you other options...continue this life of isolation, anger, and pain the way things are....

somthings gotta give...

you pick a time frame..

then YOU change the whole atmosphere in that home...

you change the mood

you make it a place he wants to be...
subtle as all get out....

and ithurts..let me say that there is not one thing you can do on this earth that makes YOU responsible for his choice to have affairs...

BUT there are things that you have posted that he said that sound like weren't very nice for him a long time before the affairs started...

I don't get along with his kids (which I've been working on for a year)

I spend too much time with my horse which I board 5 miles away (yes, I've admitted I was obsessed becoz of my unfulfilled maternal instinct) my pets are very important to me. I vowed to change and be home more. That sure went on deaf ears - his answers was "I'm fine" - yeah, once he found someone(s) to spend time with.

those are pretty big issues..that would make me feel like my spouse didn't care....

you may want to get Dr. Laura's the proper care and feeding of husbands...

and you sound mad...which is understandable also..but plan a calls for the release of that anger....freeing yourself enough from it to be able to meet his things...

cook his favorite dinner..but don;t dare mention it just serve it to him....

play music in the background that he enjoys...

you must learn to give of your self in plan with NO NO NO expectation of any return or reward..
it's hard..
that's why a time line is important...

what is YOUR plan to change things the way they are today..
cause part of plan a...is deciding not to live one more second in the morose state of an affair...

ark

Ark - So you are telling me I have to start all this over again...Set myself up to be hurt, put my heart on my sleeve, pray again, be nice, sweet, all those things I've been doing but not doing correctly..WOW - that's alot - I have to tear down the wall I've built to hid my hurt. While all my friends say File the papers - move on..this man is a serial cheater. For all I know he's been doing it the entire 10 years of our M. You say, give it one more try..I cry just thinking of the pain I've been in and having to do it again. If I open the door again and he slams it shut I think I'll just curl up and never love another man again.

I;m angry yes - but, the last thing I want is a divorce - I still love him very much.

I'm afraid f I set guidelines and a time frame for Plan A and it fails the next step will be to file for D..and I can't face that yet and may never be able to face that day. I just want it to go away on it's own..Like one day he wakes up and says these women aren't worth it. I have too much to lose...

Yes, some of the things that were going on I'm sure made him think I didn't care - but, I always tried to do little things for him to make up for my horse time, his kids (which are 27 + 25) that won't like anyone he's with - it's a jelousy issue they would rather see him with their mother who he's been D from for 20 + years.

Over the last year, I did reduce my barn time and talked with his kids. My therapist said he has his life in "compartments" that he doesn't want the compartments to mesh - that's why he goes to dinner with his kids and never invites me and never has. No matter what I've done to change it hasn't helped - I think he's happy running with other women and doesn't want to change..

Can it be too late??

hurt..

what are you going to do to change the two of living in seperate corners of the world...
where there is no communication...

how is this limbo going to get better unless something or someone changes AND if you can't change him and only yourself...

what choice do you have...

the longer you two become compliant living like this....the longer you will..
and time on this earth is fleeting....

I cry just thinking of the pain I've been in and having to do it again.

my challenge is that your current invactivity causes you pain as well...but what it doesn't cause is ..is any changes...and I get that change is scary scary scary stuff....

each day of seperate corners living ...
each day of silence speaking volumes of eachothers worth....

(which are 27 + 25) that won't like anyone he's with - it's a jelousy issue they would rather see him with their mother who he's been D from for 20 + years.

the children have a right to feel that way..divorce is powerless in the hands of children...
he owns the part of protecting you from their wrath..which is really his fault for leaving their mother....

one day he wakes up and says these women aren't worth it. I have too much to lose...

but the catch 22 is that you aren't offering him anything....else...
why should he choose you that chooses animals over him....

why should he choos you that no longer speaks to him
or invites him anywhere...
only because he never does these things to you..

plan a is inviting and engaging him INSPITE of his own actions....

hurt...I'm only saying that somethings got to give..it's not going away on it's own...sad sad sad.... <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

plan a should empower you...not leave you totally vulnerable and open to pain..
plan a empowers you to do for this man not because you expect any return but because you can teach him that you believe enough in the good in him that he deserves compassion and respect...

people in affairs...know that their actions are wrong...no matter the layers of denial and justification..
they can not like themselves on the very very deep inside...
and if the spouses treat them as unlikable as they feel...it just solidifies the whole mess they have created..

they can't see the way out...
they can't believe that you can ever get over it..
and if you don't ever show you can..
they wallow and cling to reflections of feeling good...

ark

Ark- After some soul searching I have decided to do a good Plan A.

Your right about living in separate corners it's just as painful as what's been going on for a year.

I guess I should have given more of a complete bio of our 10 year marriage before I posted. Your only seeing the end result which isn't a fair assesment.

I met my WH (then single - though D 3 times) while I was in an unhappy M - I left my H within in 6 months to be with my current WH. Yes, I was a WW. (that's why I see things easier - though, I can't "fix them - nor could my H at the time - I was in the "fog" but with one person only)
We M a year later. I was happy/in love though sex was always an issue. There were quite a few times that he was unable for whatever reason. It was very boring - cut to the chase sex. Many times he just wasn't interested - things only got worse from there. he said he'd see a dr. but would never go. He gave every excuse in the world. I blamed myself for 5 years til I finally said - it isn't me - I never had this problem in the past. and put no pressure on him to have relations with me. Then it became 1 time a year maybe 2 but never at home only on vacations. Therapist feels that why he has OP it's the secrets, different places, etc. that excite him, and he can't perform well at home.

During our M - many times I wondered if I couldn't account for his time that he may be with someone else - though, I could never prove or be sure of anything. So I left it alone.

After 5 years we aquired a business and I left my job/friends of 19 years.I had constant contact with people at my old job - my new job I'm in a small office and have very little contact with others (doesn't help when you are the owner - you can confide in noone)My WH was around a constant supply of people his life didn't really change. We didn't socialize like we had in the past - it was work and home. I was going crazy - I needed to get out and do something. He was happy in front of the TV and no sex...So I started riding lessons - well, that sure fulfilled my needs - I bought a horse explaing to my WH how much time away it would require - he said no problem - if it makes me happy. Since he golfs and has cars as an outside interest. It takes about 2 -3 hrs. per day. I became obsessed - it was unconditional love - I was needed - since I wasn't needed sexually at home. I was only barked at to do things that needed done. I buried myself..

Now 5 years after having the business - rather than hide what he may have been doing for years - he's become empowered and blatant in his A's. He drinks way more than he ever has - so that has become another issue. So I took a stance and uncovered things..Hurt or not I had to know. My life wasn't fair - I had the money, trips, cars,etc. but I dont' have the love/sex that goes along with M. I deserve more and I want more out of life. Though I will never have an A to get what I'm missing.

I have for the past year put the horse on the back burner to my M - I missed a very important week long function to stay home and work on my M - which my WH knew was important and knew I stayed home only becoz of him. Yet he didn't stop his A's. I think he's in too deep - it went from sex only to maybe deeper feelings for one of them.

WH daughters huge wedding is in 2 months - I only pray that he isn't giving the M all of a sudden alittle effort becoz of that - since he brought it up that we need to do "something". He's been in the "fog" for a year and if he's "playing me" for the next 2 months, my next step will have to be Plan B - as it will be a clear sign that our M is over. This will be the last shot at happiness. That he has always been a serial cheater and I'm just the "doll in the china cupboard". That he will never change to have a good M - that he doesn't want a good M. He only wants to put on a "show"..and I can't live knowing that.

So I'll really put effort into Plan A - No I won't give up time with my horse but I'll watch the clock more. I'll try again to "offer him more than he can get outside of our M".

Send healing prays my way...I sure need them. I don't want to be one of those wives that know what's going on but closes her eyes so her lifestyle doesn't change.

Ark - Just bumping this up - looking for a reply and support of trying a True Plan A.

ithurts...

I'm gonna say that first WHAT were you thinking...marrying someone divorced three times...and willing to see you as a married woman...honest to pete..does this look like the type of person that "GETS" what marraige is about at ALL??????????????????

uggghhhhhh.......

OK lets just say this there are huge huge red flags everywhere.....

and you HAVE NOTHING NOW with the way things are in all reality...
so the flip side or the good news is that in trying something you HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE!!!!

Sooooo what I'm thinking is that unless this guy really gets on board with a program and a commitment to marriage...something he has failed at three times....four times when we count his affair with you...and now currently...
that if he doesn't try this one time...

I think that you are way better off without him.....

but I am always willing to try....

So go balls out plan A on this guy...

start cooking favorite meals...
start planning weekend trips away and seduce him if that is a boundary you are comfortable with...

invite to meet up with him after a golf match..
(remember expect to be rejected)
have his favorite cold beverage waiting for him when he comes home....

buy his favorite dessert...

all that stuff....

but also plan for your plan b...cause it may be ithurts that plan B is the one thing you haven't done'...

part of me can not stand the gobsmack of hyprocricy dripping from your husband...having affairs while planning and participating in his own daughters wedding...as if he even believe in the sanctity of marriage...and you may want to consider making wedding day weekend the begining of your plan b...which probably not a good idea as it will be used against you...
but the thought of even attending a wedding with this guy is creepy let alone him walking someone down an aisle ....uggghhhh again....

find you strength..
please build yourself up a support group..

do you have children..
what age...

how's your exhusband looking these days....
I know this post is all over the place..but you will have support which ever path you choose...

what would I do if I were you today...
I'd plan a my butt off.....
and go right to plan b...with NO CONTACT
and i would not stop plan b till he had a good four-five months of counseling under his belt...
this ones is a slippery one....

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ITHURTS:
<strong> ....I know of 2 different women that my WH may be involved with - still not certain the level of involement. In the past year there have been 4-5 women that I'm a fairly certain he has had a PA with. Naturally, his A's are "my fault"...

Currently, I do not invite him to family or friends functions, we do not go anywhere together. he goes his way I go mine. I still cook and do the laundry, shopping, etc. ...since he knows that I know about these women - and he knows I'm unwilling to work on our marriage unless he gives up the A's. I.....

I'd really like to find out WHY - he won't stop seeing these women. He will not go to a therapist to find the answers, he blames me..I believe he has strong narcissist personality traits, and that he could also be going thru mid-life crisis...

How long do I live in "limbo"...just riding down the "centerline" (for any horsey MB friends)???? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of your questions is WHY he WON'T stop seeing these OWs?

Answer: Because you have given him his cake (ie: I still cook and do the laundry, shopping, etc.) and he gets to eat it too. He is a cake man getting what he considers the best of both worlds. Why should he stop? He has you enabling the A.

Another question is how long will you be in limbo?

Answer: As long as you allow yourself to allow it.

Harsh but true reality based on the picture you painted. I am trying to unite your heart and mind which at this time is becoming your enemy more than your friend. Yes you are allowing him to hurt you over and over again all the while asking when is this going to stop.

Now the next question is: When do you want to get off the rollercoaster for you?

L.

Ark - What was I thinking marrying someone D 3 times - He told me he was D 2 times - found out 3 years later he married his 1st wife twice - but he only counts it as one...DUH.. then someone else for 6 months -
Seeing me as a married women - I guess I was unhappy,and loved the attention..Yes, that's selfish - I know I did wrong by having an A but I guess I was in the "fog" like so many others.B-4 I knew it I was D and moving in with him.

I've tried to explain to him - that due to "our past" we need to make our M work - show everyone "we" can make it. "We" are not losers at M. I don't think he can commit to our M or any M. The longer I'm with him the more I really see him for who he is..I truly believe he "stalks" M women - from the women he's been seeing and hey look at me. What may have started as a game for him - became reality and I don't think he can live reality - it's the chase, fantasy, etc. that he may thrive on. THe lack of sex at home should be another clue for me.

I can't give up yet...could it be that I'm obsessed with "winning" this battle and making him into a respectable man??? So many people around him view him as a "nice guy". A man with a great business sense, is a perfectionist in everything. I guess I'm just not "perfect" anymore. I'm starting to age.

Since your last post - I have started to Plan A - and he's come around - though, he is still sleeping in another bedroom. I think I have him confused - I had really put up a wall and then poff it was down..I've done the cooking,etc. but at this point I can't "seduce" him..Hell, he probably doesn't want me to..I can't think about him touching me when he has touched sooo many lately and may still be doing it..I don't feel like I would be "good" enough sexually for him. He has stripped me of my pride and dignity by degrading me. And with his not wanting me for sooo many years - why all of a sudden would he even want to be with me???? I would feel like I was "leftovers" and I feel bad enough right now - I can't go there that's for sure. Believe me - I want him bad - I've always wanted him sexually - I want him intimatly to hold me and make this go away - but I can't reach out without that horrid feeling of rejection/lose/phoney love feelings. I can't trust him yet..

I can't Plan B - like I said we work together he'd still see me everyday. If I walk away from the business that could really hurt me in divorce court..Also, at this point I'm not mentally strong enough to Plan B - where would I go??? Why should I be the one to move out??? He will not leave that's for sure. I could wait till after the wedding and talk to him about his taking a loan to buy me out of our house so I can buy a condo. I'm not willing to move to some rat trap while his living in our beautiful home, with my things.

Your right about the hyprocrity of his daughters wedding and what M really means and is..The wedding is a "show" for friends and family in his eyes - she has an unlimited checkbook from him..In a fit of anger I told him "I hope ### never does to your daughter what you are doing to me..and that didn't phase him one bit. Nothing does..His constant blame is my horse - yet, he brags to everyone that I have a horse - it's yet another material object he's acquired.

I was really thinking about NOT going to the wedding - especially if he hasn't given up the OP - yet, I feel that I need to be there with him to share in that day. Then other times - I'd like to not go to show him that I can slap him in the face too...but that wouldn't be much of a Plan A would it??? THe W is Sept. 4th - so I still have to wait and see, if things improve or not. Everyone says he'll walk the walk till Sept 5th and then I'll be nutty again..They are probably right..

I do not have children - thank God for that..

My H - has good days and bad..He is drinking more than ever and has days were he just sits and watches TV - never leaving the couch - depression??? booze?? OP??

He still will not go to a couseler - jez, wonder why?? And if he did - I doubt he'd tell the truth - since I don't think he wants to face his demons..He's buried them for too long..I want to be in his life and we need to have a life together "alone" without other women being a part of the mix..

Orchid - That's why I hadn't done a stong Plan A before this - he had many years of having his cake - he's definately had the best of both worlds. I truly believe he's done this for many years but he was more secretive - now the money and the business has empowwered him.

How do I stop without moving to Plan B be in limbo? Or is that not an option - are we too far gone?? How do I stop enabling the A without moving to Plan B?

To get off the roller coaster may mean leaving my H - and I still don't have the strength. Isn't there a Plan C??? How to stop loving your H ??

Thanks for the support - I sure need it..

heya ithurts...

Here's where you are sabotaging yourself...

you can't change him yet there are glimmers of you still holding on to that belief ...

I'd really like to find out WHY - he won't stop seeing these women.

Like one day he wakes up and says these women aren't worth it. I have too much to lose...

I stayed home only becoz of him. Yet he didn't stop his A's.

so I still have to wait and see, if things improve or not.

lets start with the basics and work backwards...

1. THERE IS NOTHING THAT YOU CAN DO TO MAKE HIM DO ANYTHING..THE ONLY PERSON YOU CAN CONTROL IS YOU...

2. YOU CAN NOT TOLERATE YOUR MARRIAGE THE WAY IT IS TODAY...IF YOU DON'T DO SOMETHING NOTHING WILL CHANGE....

3. HIS CHOICE TO BE PART OF THE MARRIAGE IS HIS CHOICE ALONE.....YOU STILL NEED TO MAKE YOUR CHOICE OF WHAT IS TOLERABLE IN YOUR UNIVERSE...

4. YOU MUST BE WILLING TO FACE THE REALITY THAT YOU TWO MAY NOT END UP TOGETHER AND SEE IF THAT IS REALLY SCARIER THEN SPENDING THE REST OF YOUR LIFE EXACTLY THE WAY THINGS ARE TODAY...

Ithurts I am going to tell you something that you are not going to like at ALL....

I think first of all you need announce to him that you are going to marriage counseling and want him to go with you...knowing he will not go...but you go anyways...and get yourself a totally pro-marriage counselor.....and go go go...

second of all...
hold on to your hat....

I think you need to get rid of the horse right now at this time in your life...
I think that it symbolizes the measurement of the importance both of you place on your marriage..and that you husband needs some radical tangible proof of your seriousness of giving this marriage a shot of honesty for the first time in its existance ..

I know that sounds horrible and scary for you ..but I think you have to decide is the horse more important than your marriage...and you have sentence after sentence in your latest post about your fear of this marriage not working
you desire for this marriage to work
and the pain you are in because of the state of this marriage...

if you are serious about trying to work on this...
that's where I think you should start...

that it is the symbolic and physical act of saying to your husband...

look buddy i am deciding here and now that YOU and I excluding all others...meaning other woman and other animals...that you and me are worth something and that you deserve to have me and only me in your life...and I deserve to have you and only YOU in my life.....


it is love in action and word...
it is saying that none of this stuff and material and crap matte to me...
but you matter to me...

chew on that...let me know what you think...
and after you post all the reason why that would be wrong...
look at each reason and see if they serve you or serve the bigger picture of the marriage...
ithurts...I'm pulling for you...
desperate times..desperate measures..

ark

Ark - No I can't change him - but with a good Plan A can't I make him see that our M/life together is better than what he's doing now??

Your right - I can't "make" him do anything - everything I've done so far has backfired in my face. He's totally out of control and doesn't seem to want to be a man of dignity. As he told me many times - he's going to do what he wants to do. He has told me he was never going to leave me - he never meant to hurt me, he loves me..ok so he'll have A just for the attention, sex, whatever. and keep me for the vacations, family life, etc. I feel like a Daniel Steele novel.

I don't want to be alone or without him - but, I can't keep living a lie - he must stop or eventually I will be so dried up inside that the love will just be dead. I'm hoping that happens sooner than later if that's what's to be.

I just got back from talking with my therapist/marriage councelor. I know you feel strongly about my getting rid of my horse she doesn't. Since he has NEVER asked me to get rid of the horse. She has seen me over the past 8 months change many things and how I deal with his issues and she believes all of this is about HIM...it has nothing to do with my horse or ME, it's his excuse since he has nothing else "on me". I've "fixed" other issues (erroneous) he's asked of me and he still strays. If I asked or said that golf, cars/shows, drinking, other women, his kids, had to go he'd not give any of it up. He'd laugh in my face. I've made alot of changes, read books, etc. and he has put absolutely NO EFFORT into repairing our M he won't consider theraphy. We are not dealing with a rational clear thinking man here. We are dealing with someone who has had failed marriages and poor relations with his kids. He gives NO EMOTIONAL support to anyone - only financial. He never has... He is frustrated that I can't be bought...I do not want to be a wife for appearance sake only.

I semi-agree that it symbolizes the measurement of the importance I place on our marriage. I would think that calling one of these women, seeing an attorney, bringing his A out in the open to family (funny his parents weren't shocked) and friends would also show him "some radical tangible proof of my seriousness". I've explained that this isn't a game this is our life and the lives of others that he's screwing with and he's not being fair to anyone. If he wants out he needs to for once in his life be honest and go. His response is "I'm not doing anything". Still in denial. Selling my horse would be like selling a child - I can't do it..He's what has kept me going for this long. He gives me the comfort I never got at home. He frees me emotionally from the stress I'm under. I can't say my horse hasn't done some damage - I think my H lost some control over me and that really ticked him off. So I sell the one important thing to me and he still cheats - then where am I??? If I went home today and told him I was selling my horse to regain our M - he'd beg me not too - since deep down it's not the horse. I did once mention it and he was totally against it - he said he would never want me to do that.

Before I got the horse I truly believe my H cheated just not so openly. His old friend from his single days is back in his life again and I think they are re-living their youth - unfortunatly at my expense. I think his friend tells him "she'll never leave - she has it too good". His wife is an alcoholic who doesn't work - where is she going so he thinks I'm like her - take the easy road. Close my eyes and live a good life in front of others. It's either self-induced mid-life crisis or he's always been this way and I was too stupid to see it.

I will continue Plan A - with little emphasis/attention to my horse - do the wedding thing to save face - and come Sept. 5th - if the women are still an issue - I'll have no other recourse than to really lay it out - Sell the house or buy me out - but, I'm outa here.

I need support from you and I need ideas to get my H to live the life of a M person, etc. but I'm sorry I can't/won't give up the one stable thing in my life. When deep down I doubt that my H can change - it's who he may be...

bumping up for looking for reply from Ark...