My WS broke it off with the OW because he knew that he was about to lose me for good. He wasn't pressured by me to do it, he just knew he didn't have a lot of choice if he wanted to be with me anymore. He's home and he says a lot of the right things, but he also says that he's emotionally drained right now. I've seen him pining over her when the s--t originally hit the fan, and this seems to be different. He doesn't really seem to be grieving over the loss of her, but more distant like he's empty & tired inside. How do you deal with this? I'm a woman, so my first instinct is to question him constantly about how he's feeling and see if he feels like he made the right choice, and I know that I can't do that, but it's that urge you have, that you have to fight all the time. Is there anybody out there that has lived through this? What should I expect?

Lost,

Many have dealt with what your H is going through now. Do you have a gooc MC or can you both do some phone counseling with Steve? This is critical you get support via good MC. Also have you read His Needs/Her Needs and Surviving an Affair? What about taking the EN questionnaire.

If you don't put forth constructive recovery effort and just rely on info from this board, you are not taking your recovery seriously and could lean towards false recoveries which are very painful.

L.

Thanks Orchid. I printed out about 100 pages from this website, this week, to have him read & he's started slowly reading it. I can't get him to go to a marriage counselor period. I've tried for a month solid. He was a wild teenager and had to see some counselors and psychologists during that time and he had very bad experiences with that. That may be an excuse, but it's something I've known about since I've known him. I did the EN Questionaire and I printed one off for him. He's told me that he'll fill it out and he'll look over mine too. He's not adverse to what he's been reading so far. I'm thinking that maybe if I slowly get him reading some of Steve's work I could get him to be willing to do a phone session with him. That's a hope of mine right now. I have had a real problem with getting him to write a no-contact letter. I can only push that so far or we'll fight. He says that he broke it off with her on his own and he knows that he'll always care about her, but he doesn't want to be with her sexually or in any other way now. He's advised me that he won't be contacting her at all because all that he wants is for us to learn to be together again. I'm also hoping that if I can gradually work on him about the no-contact letter he'll write it. He says that he hurt her very deeply when he told her that he was still in-love with me and that he would not want to keep hurting anyone else intentionally. I asked him if she calls him will he write the letter and he's advised me that under those circumstances he'll consider it, but says that he really doesn't think she'll try to contact him either. He keeps saying it's really over. Why am I having such a hard time believing that? It's just hard to see the emotional detachment he has. He seems so empty but he seems like he's where he wants to be. I'm afraid I'll wind up showing my fear & pushing him away. I'm trying. Any good ideas on how to combat some of that?

Lost,
My WH completely fell apart when OW told him she way staying with her husband. He cried uncontrollably for 3 days & nights. I finally insisted he get on ADs. To my surprise, he did it that day. They seem to have helped.

Your WH has chosen you, and you seem to want to keep him, right? He will most likely go through a period of withdrawal from OW. The time period for withdrawal varies greatly. Also note that any contact whatsoever between WH & OW resets the withdrawal clock. In the meantime, keep Plan A'ing. I know it's not fair. THEY had the affair and WE have to be "nice." UGH!!

In this case, focus on the destination, not the journey. The journey can be one heck of a rollercoaster, and you will probably want to stop the ride and get off several times. HOLD ON. Be strong. You can do it! When you feel like throwing in the towel, go out for a while and do something nice for yourself, i.e., shop, workout, spend time w/ your best girlfriend, whatever. A better, stronger, happier you can do nothing but improve your relationship w/ everyone in your life. Take care.

L&A

Thank you. I read your story too. I actually replied to one of your threads I believe. I'm sorry for the torment that he's caused you too. I know that from what I've read, yours sounds a lot like mine. My husband is very nice looking and built really well but he has no self-esteem and he's always thought of himself as ugly and unworthy. I've worked on that through the years trying to build him up and it made him feel good, but when she came along, she made him feel so special and wonderful. I thought I couldn't compete with that. My husband is wonderful in certain ways, but he's also a complete [censored] in other ways. He's very childish when he doesn't get his own way and he acts like a petulant child. It makes me wonder why we try so hard to hang on them, but then I look at my kids and all the years I've invested in him and I can't just walk away. I can't even seem to let go. I have tried, and some days I think it would be easier than to fight the torment, but I just can't. Maybe they're not the only ones addicted. Maybe we are too. I appreciate your kind words and you taking the time to talk to me, and I need the suggestions. It's always better to get insight from people that really know what you're going through. Everyone else just seems to think you should "dump the b-----d". That seems to be the most common thing I hear. How could you put up with that & give him another chance? I just don't talk to anybody about it except on here. It's easier and I get no judgement calls. Nobody seems to want to tell me how stupid I am for wanting to find a way to make my marriage work, because deep down I do want to. I'm just not sure how. Thanks again and goodluck to you too.

I'm right there with you.... we hit d-day about 1 month ago, and supposed he was not going to contact her anymore (they had an EA)... but he did (a few times, emailing her to see how she was and all....). Just last week he admitted to that... and has since done a 360 in our own relationship. But through this all.... he admited last week that he is sad that he hurt me so much and along with it hurt her too. I didn't ask him to elabroate but just stayed quite- I mean atleast he was being truthful and sharing with me right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> I can tell he was a bit withdrawn (not so much anymore though...) and I kept wondering why, but never got up the nerve to ask because I didn't want to hear that he missed her or junk like that, yea know? But I like you, I wanted to ask what he was feeling and where he felt he was going almost constantly. But I learned through reading here and some councel, that I just can't do it (atleast not all the time). I need to let things be... and if there is a time that seems right then I can ask him things like if he's been in contact with OW or ask how's he's feeling about us... or just stuff nagging at the back of my head that I need to get out. I'm thinking I just need to cut it out, I mean my wh has made some long long strides and I don't want to backslide his progress by my constant inquiries. I just wonder when the trust will come along..... Will it ever?

Lost,

U can go to a good MC on your own. Better yet, you setup for a 1 on 1 session with Steve. Do it when he is there so he can hear you. Mine didn't want to talk to Steve, was very adamant adout it but guess who took up over 40 minutes of our 60 minute session? Yep, the Ws. With a 7 minute intro and a 10 minute wrap up, our first session gave me about 3 minutes. Geeze, I was paying for it. After that the WS grumbled but the impact was made. To this day, my H doesn't think much of Steve but that's because his pride won't let him admit it helped. I saw the difference for a little while but since it was sooo close to d/d, the fog was stronger.

I am glad we had a session with Steve. I read the books and keep my MC sessions going with a local MC here. Between those things and posting here, I kept my santity.

You can lead by example (not soo much preaching or teaching). He will follow.

Remember he knows more about the A than you do so it is easier for him to say he is over it and you are still unsure.

L.

I don't know. I'm wondering the same thing. My husband has been completely bluntly honest on everything that I've asked him since it all hit the fan. There's a lot of stuff I wished I'd never have asked, and I'm sure there's a lot he wishes that he'd never told me. He's actually cried when he's told me a lot of things because he said he knew he was going to hurt me deeply with the answer. Up until a few weeks ago when I told him we could live separate but together and he could see her, he seemed to be eaten alive by grief over not having any contact with her. I loved him too much to see him hurt that bad and I just wanted it over. He told me that he was grieving over her, but a lot of it was that he feels constant sorrow & saddness over what he's done to me. He says that even though I'm saying that I can forgive him and I'm not railing at him, he can see the hurt in my eyes and it's killing him. He said sometimes it really hurts to look at me and know what he's done to me and that it's hard to live with. I do really deep down love him and I think that he really loves me, but he's never been a touchy, feely, affectionate type of guy. I mean we've always had a great sexual relationship (he even says that) and I get the occasional hug and kiss, but he's not the showy type. Sometimes I really need that right now and he's trying but he's having trouble trying to connect with me. I think maybe he's always been emotionally unable to connect fully. He's too selfish to give all of himself to anybody. I wonder if there's a way to combat that. I can't get him to talk to a professional so I'm stuck analyzing him myself. I see things now that I never saw about him. I guess I always thought if I loved him "hard" enough and took "good" enough care of him, eventually he'd be able to care about me like I do him. I don't really know if he's capable of that. I do know that he's showing me that he loves me as much as he's capable of loving anyone other than himself, but I don't know how to trust him again. I don't know how either one of us gets to that point. I think we have to let go a little at a time, but never fully trust again. I'm not sure it's a bad thing to never trust fully again. Look where it got me this time. I'll never let another woman get that close to my man just because I trust him or them again. I hope that things work out for you and I hope you keep me posted on how it's going. I feel you & I feel your pain. Take care of yourself.

Orchid, You're right. He knows a lot about the affair, but I have to admit that what scares me is that I knew it too. He's the guilty-conscience kind of face guy. I pretty much knew all along & just kept trying to catch them. She was my best friend, so I had them both in my face all the time. She's never really showed any remorse, except the moment she was caught. She even had the gall to call me and tell me she wanted him & that it didn't matter that he's going to be broke (I have 3 kids he'd have to pay child support on & he was leaving me with the bills). That was the week he started being able to see her on his own. He says that she told him that she would never call him again. I think she's mad at him because she thinks he led her on. Imagine that. She thinks he led her on after she spent night after night in our house seeing us as a family. She even told me on the day I caught them that he told her he loved me and he had no reason to leave. It's been a really big mess, but I guess it always is.

I appreciate your input. I believe that I'm going to set up a session with Steve in my home and make sure he's present and he can listen in if he wants to, but if not, at least I'll have some professional advice. I am going to try that for next week. In the meantime, I've got him reading about how to survive infidelity from this web-site, and I hope it makes an impact on him. It did on me. It validated some of the feelings I have. Thanks so much for the input. I know what's right & wrong, but sometimes it helps having someone guide you toward what you know is right.

Side note, I asked him via text message today if he likes the direction things are going - he said yes what do I think & I said it gives me hope - I asked him if it gave him more hope & he said that wasn't possible for him - my heart stopped - I asked what he meant & he said he is full of hope and there wasn't room for anymore.... Maybe I'm too full of hope, but surely it's a sign that he is where he really wants to be. I just "hope" I'm not being a fool.

Lost,

Yes, I read your reply in my thread. Thanks for the "got get em".

Someone in a new thread once asked if they would ever trust again, a veteran replied that in time they could learn to trust again, but they would never trust that innocently again. Wow, that really had an impact on me. It even made me cry. Trust is so important to me. I trusted my WH 150%. I never questioned anything. I knew this guy since we were teenagers. It never occured to me that he could do this. WRONG!!

I sorta envy you right now. Your WH is at least starting the process. In the book, "After the Affair" by Shirley Abrahms Spring (I think), the author tells the WSs that even if they aren't sure whether or not they want to fix the marriage, they have to at least pretend and go through the motions. As time passes and they are away from the OPs, the feelings for the BSs can return and they won't be pretending anymore. I probably didn't write that well, but hopefully you get the meaning. (BTW, I highly recommend that book too. I bought the book for me and the book on cassettes for WH. He actually listened to them.)

If your WH won't go to MC, you can always go to IC (Individual Counseling) by yourself. My WH & I both go to IC, even to the same person. WH is not ready for MC now. He may never be.

Our situations are different. Your WH is trying. I am most likely going to Plan B soon. Quite frankly, I'm scared to death, but I know I'll be okay.

Keep it together. You're on the right track.

L&A

LIE

Since you have posted just a few times I would assume that D-Day is recent as well as your H's decision to end the A.

The OW in my life told me at the beginning of the A that at the end of the A a person feels "empty". She was correct.

It should be no surprise that your H feels "emotionaly drained". He has poured out his emotions for the length of the A and did his best to conceal it from you. The reason he seems "distant and empty" is because he hasn't grieved the loss of the OW or the near destruction of his relationship with you. Most people cannot do this alone. It takes some form of outside help to bring back that which has been "spent" emotionaly in an A.

I have lived through "this" but I cannot tell you what will take place in your life. I can say that if the two of you want your marriage to survive it wlill take a "ton" of work over a long period of time. The A is usually just a symptom of what is going on inside the WS and it must not be ignored.

He can't respond to your questions because he doesn't know how he is feeling. He has made the correct decision to stay with you. You are not to blame for his A but you get to experience the consequences of his choices. For the most part you and you H will be in and out of every emotion given to mankind. Your efforts to rebuild will be rewarded but don't expect an overnight recovery.

There are many here who can help you through this but the real work has to be done by you and your H. If you are not already in counseling I suggest that you both get involved in IC and MC.
H

Well, we're through one week together and on Friday she sent him a text message on his phone and said "I hope you and your family have a good weekend." He sent her one back that just said "Thanks". I asked him about it and he said that she did try to call him Friday, but he didn't answer the phone. He showed me his cell phone and it showed her as a missed call. I asked him why he answered the text message and he says that he just felt mean because he knew that he had broken her heart. He told me that he doesn't intend to talk to her, but he can't just be rude about it. I sent her a message and advised her that we're working through things and that if she knows what's good for her, she'll back off and leave it alone. I mean in my state, I can sue her if we wind up divorced, so I let her know that. I told him what I did. I could tell he wasn't very happy about it, but he said that I have to deal with it the best way that I can for me. I told him that if he answered anything from her that he was basically keeping that thread with her so that if we don't work out he can traipse right back to her, and that if he's trying to keep any kind of contact with her, it dimishes us in many ways. He said no he's not, he just can't be mean to her because she's never done anything to him. I dropped it, because it was going to wind up being an argument that neither one of us would win. I can see that, even though it's hard to deal with. I told him that if he wanted her though, that he shouldn't have broken it off. He told me that I'm where he wants to be or he wouldn't have made the decision to break it off. He says he told me that he cares about her, but it wasn't what he thought it was when they were having to sneak around and that he knows what we had was real & he wants it back. He's still acting kind of dead emotionally, but he's been a little kinder this weekend. He's trying to show me the affection that I've always craved and never got, but I can't get the text message thing out of my head. I don't want him having any contact with her, but at the same time, he could call her work from his work and carry on private untraceable conversations with her and I'd never know. Am I overreacting to his one word answer to her text message? I know what game she's playing, she thought she'd send him that & he'd either call her or get into some text messaging conversation with her, but he chose to leave it short & sweet. I know about the no contact letter that we need to do and he's aware of the message I sent her, and I also know that he might at some point be willing to write that letter, but he's not willing to now. Is this common for the WH to agree to stay away and have no contact, but then have minimal contact because they feel bad about having hurt the OW? I guess I'm trying to justify it and I can't find any justification. Right before I quit the conversation with him, I told him that he's worried more about how she feels, because "he doesn't want to hurt her feelings", than he is about mine, because he seems to have no problem hurting mine & going on with it. He just keeps looking at me and saying "I've made a big mess, haven't I?" And he has made a mess and there are times I have to be a good actress and act like I'm fine, when really I would like to scratch his eyes out or cut his b---s off (sorry guys). Am I acting like a raving idiot? I don't sit and argue with him, or throw anything up at him. I don't even bring up what he's done to him, but he seems to bring it up all the time and keep saying that he knows he's hurt me so bad, and he doesn't know how to fix it. I've told him I don't think we "fix" it, I think we just go about rebuilding a better relationship that isn't so one sided. He agreed, but he says that he doesn't know what exactly I'm expecting of him and that I knew how he was when I married him and he doesn't want me to have unreal expectations of what he's capable of mentally now. I've told him that we all change and we all make sacrifices for the other person in our lives and that in order for us to build a better relationship than what we have, we both have to try to meet the emotional needs and we've read all of that stuff together. He just keeps saying that he'll try as hard as he can, but then he answered her text message. I don't want anyone to think I'm a whiner or that I'm an idiot. It's not the one text message or his one word answer, it's the fact that I can't get it out of my head that this is how it started, one text message after the other until they were having a physical affair. Does this mean that he's going to backslide and go back to her? Does it ever happen that the WH does end things and just be polite to the OW, but doesn't go back there? I don't really think so, but then it was his choice to end things with her and he didn't have to. Help???????

Lost,

I didn't read every word here but the bottom line is NC.
Contact is like D-Day all over again. He was "mean" to her when he let her love him. He's being kind to her by geting out of her life and allowing her to go on with hers.

I feel bad about hurting the OW in my life I think I can safely say that she feels bad about hurting me. We have hurt eachother enough how would further contact make the hurt any less?

Yes he has made a "big mess of it" and no you are not "fine". It serves no purpose for you to "fake it" when you have been wounded so deeply. You don't have to "scratch his eyes out" in order for you to explain how great your pain is. You could say that you would like to "scratch his eyes out..." in order to help him "see" how angry and hurt you are. He doesn't have a clue how deep he has wounded you. You must get taht point across to him. It can be done without LBing. In fact it will be more effective if you are calm and collected when you "deliver the news" of your devastation. If you can't be calm then wirte it down and read it to him.

As the old song says "there are 50 ways to leave your lover".
WS's can't be friends with their lovers. Someone will always be cheated if the relationship continues no matter what the level. Trying to continue is "leaving the door open". That bridge has to be burned... I guess that's enough cliches <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . There is no kind way to end the relationship...the real kindness would have been to not to have begun it in the first place. But "we", the ws's were too selfish for that.

H