My heart tells me I love her but my head tells to get the lying cheating woman out of my life. My heart says Plan A but my head says I'm scared of being alone. My heart says keep trying but my head and body are exhausted. 28 years of marriage-and she has an A. It has only been 6 weeks since D-day and I am confused about my feelings. I have never been a real touchy feeling type of person. I go to an IC tomorrow and maybe he can help me sort through some of my feelings of loss and betrayal. She says she is leaving. She is worried because he adult children think less of her now that they know the truth. Just a rant. And of course I was the cause of the A because I didn't provide enough affection and conversation. It appears that she is re-writing history

Hopefulinnc,

Your heart and mind are not in sync yet. This will take time. It has to happen on it's own. Don't rush it but continue to work with your IC. See if you can schedule time with Jennifer @ MB. She is quite good.

Don't feel sorry for her babbling about the children finding out and you causing the A. That's just plain fog babble. Don't fall for it. When she talks like that remind her that the A was her choice and she must want the consquences since she is pushing for it soooo hard. Hurting her family and H, must give her some A pleasure because it sure isn't for you and the children. I had to tell my WS that somebody had better be enjoying our pain and suffering because we sure weren't. Then I cursed him but telling him that each time he smiles and shares a moment of what they (OP/WS) consider good times/happiness together, that he (ws) was sending stabs of hurt to each of his family, God and friends. But if that is what he wants, then so be it. Can't stop that. Further I told him that each time he looked in the mirror that the faces of his family w/b reflecting back at him and we were in tears. Oh yea, that tactic helped. A went downhill a lot after that scenario. Why? Because I caused LBs between OP and WS without my even being there. Without the direct phone calls. My words rang in his ears and his guilt grew. When he would try to come back, I learned to play his excuses back to him. He would tell me that I had to be there for him, etc. I reminded him that just as he said I couldn't control him, he couldn't control me and 'if' his family wanted him back, we'd get back to him about it. Talk about putting him in a panic. LOL!!!! At one point even the OW was yelling at me while he was on the phone telling me to take him back.

Remember now, I don't take orders from the OW so I told him to stay so he could be sure.... after all they fought sooo hard to be together.... all that kaniving (sp???)..... nope he got what he wanted, is what I said, now he gets to keep it. Then it seemed like all of a sudden he didn't want what he had.... oh boy more roller coaster but this time, I was in charge of how it ran.....

Recovery started then but it ran through several false recoveries. It took it's toll..... but we survived. Now we are doing much better.

I still keep plan B in my back pocket..... for my sake.

Hope this helps.
L.

Orchid-How do you get the thoughts of them together sexually out of your mind? How do you learn to trust them again? How do you know their not lying to you again?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by hopefulinnc:
<strong> Orchid-How do you get the thoughts of them together sexually out of your mind? How do you learn to trust them again? How do you know their not lying to you again? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Good question. She needs to get them out of your mind with you. I still have issues and think about OW and WS together. Yucky!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Then I get <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> . When I get bothered enough, I tell H, that I am having a hard time and he helps me through it.

As for the trust issue, again she needs to help you. After all it is not her trust in you that is the greater question but your trust in her. She lost that trust with her tryst. It is not up to you, it is up to her. In the meantime, you move forward. Areas of trust show up in other matters. When she gets mad at you, work up a system where you can show the trust is not there without too much dialogue. For us, I just look at him without saying a word. The sadness in my eyes gives it away as a silent but forceful message. It maybe harder for a guy to do this but you will find a method that works.

As for her lying again it is related to the trust. When I thought H was lying to me, I would bring it up at a totally different moment. Not in a heat of anger. Again, with that sad and now hurt look. I am getting good at the faces to wear to communicate. I don't pout, nope that's not me. But I no longer hide my sadness and hurt. Now that was a big change for me. I thought I always had to portray the strong type. That is not what my H wanted. He did but he didn't. In the end, he wanted to do more of the work, so who was I to stop him. LOL!!!

Let's see if you can get some male POVs. ok? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


Kickin' it up to the top.
L.

thanks orchid-i am leaving for a while but will check back later in the evening. Thanks for responding.

can any of you male bs answer some of my questions in this post?

Hopefulinnc follow Plan A as closely as possible try not to go on autopilot. My WW had an EA AFTER we reconciled and got back together. I was trying to correct issue in her marriage while I was unknowningly throwing LB after LB and withdrawing all of my DEPOSITS. Don't do what I did, if you think its hard now, just think if you 2 somehow reconcile and then its sabotaged by LB's and she goes back.

I know I'm way ahead of where you are now. Try stepping out of your own shoes and walk in hers. That's helped me understand the why's and the how comes. Trust? WHEW! I haven't gotten there yet, I think the more BOTH parties are on the same page and feeling good about the M the more trust their will be. I wouldn't worry too much about that yet. You might want to focus on making sure the A is over. Your W is in the FOG and as long as she's in contact with the OM most of your words (eventhough they make perfectly good sense) are falling on FOGGY ears.

Hang in there, you are not alone

hinc:

"My heart tells me I love her but my head tells to get the lying cheating woman out of my life."

You will, one way or the other. Hopefully, the lying cheating woman will be replaced once again with the real McCoy. She's still in there, she's just lost. (I told my W that very thing last night. Many times in the past 30 months, it would've been a HUGE LB, but I've FINALLY gotten 2 the point where I can say stuff like that calmly, and listen 2 her response, and acknowledge it as HERS.)

"My heart says Plan A but my head says I'm scared of being alone."

Good news is that Plan A can be done with her home, assuming she doesn't leave. Also, since you have only yourself 2 work with, start working on those fears. I still have them, but they don't overcome me like they used 2. And boy did they used 2! In the process of looking my fears in the face, I learned the difference between lonliness and soli2de. Soli2de can be quite peaceful.

"My heart says keep trying but my head and body are exhausted."

Normal.

"28 years of marriage-and she has an A. It has only been 6 weeks since D-day and I am confused about my feelings. I have never been a real touchy feeling type of person."

Same here, only my W's A started 13 years ago. We celebrate our 29th anniversary 2 days after Christmas, if we get that far that is. I no longer look with trepidation on the fu2re. But I sure did for a long time after D-day.

"I go to an IC tomorrow and maybe he can help me sort through some of my feelings of loss and betrayal."

Get yourself some of the books, 2. HNHN and SAA, for sure are the good starter ones. If you're in2 spiri2ality at all (and I wasn't, I didn't think, as I'm an atheist - but that's not what spiri2ality is really about), look for "The Power of Now" by Eckhart Tolle. My favorite book in all this. Gave me peace. A good M-related book is "Passionate Marriage" by David Scnarch. It's mostly about sex therapy, but the first and last chapters are EXCELLENT about one's personal emotional health, and how 2 be in a committed relationship.

"She says she is leaving. She is worried because he adult children think less of her now that they know the truth."

Talk 2 your kids. It's important that they don't think less of HER, just of the BEHAVIOR. Your W won't know the difference for a long time, but over time it will matter, coming from them.

"Just a rant. And of course I was the cause of the A because I didn't provide enough affection and conversation. It appears that she is re-writing history"

Normal. And no, you weren't even the slightest factor in her decision 2 have an A. You were the scapegoat. FAcing what she's done is going 2 be hard on her. It's much easier for now 2 "have fun" and get her needs met, and blame everyone but herself for the consequences of these choices.

You're going 2 survive!
-ol' 2long

ditto the others

At 6 weeks, your description of your feelings seem very typical. But please keep in mind that 6 weeks is but a blink in 28 years. You did promise to stand with her in both good times and bad, right?

I sense you are in a bit of a hurry. You can't be. In fact, time and the typical track record are on your side. Slow down and do not attempt to directly influence her actions. Do not attempt to convince her that she has her head up her butt. Read the link in my sig line below and all the embedded links.

It's very difficult, but your best course for now is to take a passive role other than actions that expose the affair. Get hot on Plan A and address all her accusations, even though they may be trivial or unfounded. Not enough conversation? Attempt to converse with her on ANY topic other than OM and her affair. When she accuses you of too little too late, simply reply that this event has been a stark wake up call to you and you're committed to salvaging your marriage. In parallel, stop all actions that piss her off.

Additionally, be the rock that will make your children proud. Stay squarely atop the moral high ground and do not abandon your principles and stoop to the infidels' level. At the moment, you are the better person and your steadfastness will display this to all - including your wife. When she treats you as public enemy #1, you'll know it's working. This may seem counterintuitive, but her anger will be a psychological projection of her internal realization that you are right. Her best defense will be an accusatory offense. Very normal for cornered animals.

Understand all this?

What do you know about OM? He is also married? What exposure is avaliable to make him squirm?

Hi Hopeful,

Another male BS here..My Saga

Let me share something I found yesterday. I find it SO profound that it now resides permanently in my copy of SAA..

If you are going to buy into the MB program, and exercise Plan A, you are going to have to settle for nothing in the way of getting your needs met for as long as you choose to be in Plan A, or until the A is over and you WH "is there with you".

Plan A is the hardest thing I've ever done. You have to be on your toes at all times, and THINK about every word that leaves your lips.

You have to take care of yourself, and in a way, disengage from the drama of what you are going through and go through it intellectually.

Does a foggy WS give a hoot about you in a meaningful manner? NO. Do they know they are hurting you? Yes, but the addiction to the affair is stronger. Do they intentionally provoke the BS in many ways, so the BS "loses it" becoming angry and LoveBusting, which makes it "easy" for the WS to "view" the OP as the best choice for them? Yes.

Is there anything you can do about all this? Yes. Two things. Make sure you have done the necessary exposure of the affair, and, Plan A. Take every opportunity to fill WS's LoveBank. Stay away from LoveBusters completely. Buck up and make your WS believe you are doing "JUST FINE" without them. Always let them know you love them, and want them, but never let on that you are hurting, needy, depressed, or any other negatives.

Your actions should be to correct any PRE A behavior YOU have done which may have allowed the marriage to be vulnerable to an A. Your actions should be to make your WS think that "holy cow", they are just going on with their life, and treating me really nicely. What the HE\\ is up with THAT!"

To do this you will have to dig down into yourself for a strength you may not even know you have. But take comfort in the FACT that others have done this before you, and they are now recovering their marriages. I have done Plan A, and ended my FWW's affair, and we are now 4 months into a very satisfying recovery.

It is up to you to choose how badly you want to remain in, and, improve your marriage.

- Shattered Dreams 7/10/2004

If you have any specific questions for a male BS, ask away. I'm also into this for about 6 weeks (this time) and have been married for 32 years so I know "where you're at"!

<small>[ July 11, 2004, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Ron53 ]</small>

Ron53-how do you get the thoughts of her with the other man out of your head? It's sickening to me. She did things sexually with him that she wouldn't with me. She was more honest with him than with me. I met with phychiatrist yesterday and he adjusted my anti-d medicine and the anxiety medicine and set me up with a counselor. I reaaly need to find out if I want this marriage. One minute I do and the next I don't.
Any thoughts? I am plan Aing. Avoiding talk of the A although I know that they still talk on the phone. He lives half way across the country now. I want this bullsh** to stop.

"Ron53-how do you get the thoughts of her with the other man out of your head? It's sickening to me."

Ahh my friend, the lurid images. They MUST be banished! They will consume you and devour your soul! Allow NO negatives thoughts (especially those) to occupy your mind. Everyone uses a different method…self medication (alcohol IS NEVER a solution to any problem), substitute with only positive imagery (easier said than done, but possible), distraction - keep yourself occupied, physician prescribed Anti-Ds.

For myself, I've found that exercise and physical exertion help greatly! It "bleeds off" negative emotions, provides a healthy outlet to banish anxiety (had SERIOUS anxiety attacks for first two weeks after D-Day), really helps you re-connect with "you", provides a great boost to self esteem (which, if you're like me was/is totally in the toilet). Besides, the endorphins released by physical exertion REALLY feel good (and there aren't many feel good moments right now…give yourself a break from the pain).

Whatever method YOU find that works, USE IT! I'll repeat…DO NOT DWELL ON NEGATIVE THOUGHTS!

"It's sickening to me."

You are not alone. All BS encounter this. Lost all appetite for two weeks, lost 18 pounds (and I haven't got much to spare) and when I did eat could keep nothing down. Although it's not easy, we must maintain control of our emotions. Our "plans" will do us NO good unless we are physically able to follow them through. It is of utmost importance at this time to take care of ourselves…BOTH PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY! This must one of our highest priorities.

"She did things sexually with him that she wouldn't with me."

Our "process of discovery" often yields the bitterest fruit! I attribute this to the "wunderlust" of the A. Although I continue to monitor all communication (as possible), I now make certain that I don't read anything until I'm away from the house. An open field near work has been getting quite a workout of late. Here I can yell, scream, curse, cry, and vomit in solitude.

At least if anyone sees me, here in this state if I get "Baker Acted", they can't hold me more than 72 hours (mandatory injection of humor).

"She was more honest with him than with me."

NOT in my case! I've found that the deceit and lying, once kicked into high gear (which it has to be for the A to escape detection) is not easily turned off. For myself, although my deposits into the old Love Bank were occasionally mentioned (in the most scornful manner), many (actually most) were NEVER shared with OM. Old OM would have been real pissed off by some of the smallest LB$ I was able to deposit (that hopefully someday will matter).

"I really need to find out if I want this marriage."

That my friend MUST BE YOUR FIRST STEP!! You must engage in some serious soul searching and introspection. Listen to your heart and be able to "live" with whatever you decide. DO NOT hurry this process. Once that decision is made, DO NOT WAIVER. You must commit and you must believe. IF your decision is to save your marriage, Read Dr. H's SAA (Surviving an Affair) and HNHS (His Needs, Her Needs), and adopt the MB principles found here.

"I want this bulls**t to stop"[

AMEN BROTHER…you said a mouthful there!!!

Any other questions, ask away...

<small>[ July 11, 2004, 05:03 PM: Message edited by: Ron53 ]</small>

Hopeful,

One more important thing occurred to me this morning...

PATIENCE...you are going to need extreme amounts of this. IF you don't already have it (or feel it may be insufficient for the coming "stuggle") develop it!

Trust me when I say this...YOUR PATIENCE WILL BE TRIED AS NEVER BEFORE!

Orchid and Ron53-thanks for the input. I went to see my physchiatrist Sat and he adjusted my anti-depressants for me-hopefully for the better. He didn't have much in the way of advice but he did set me up with a counselor that I see next Sat. It the very least it is a positive step for me. Hopefully she will lead/guide in thinking clearer.
I can only change me and damnit I'm gonna try. It is interesting my WS was very very interested in what he had to say. I did not give much info except for the adjutsment to the medicine.