<small>[ July 26, 2004, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, I did stop contact with OM even though I didn't feel like it, but if I were totally honest I think it was because God 'broke me down' in it until I confessed to H.

To my shame, If God hadn't have broken me to confession point where would I be??
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BV,

I want to give your questions careful consideration before I respond, plus RH's input....so it may be a while until you hear back from me. But for now, in response to your quote above, I will just say this: God steps in and does what we are unable to do ourselves.

BV,

Please listen to Onlywords. She is giving you great advice and she is probably right when you hear it from the right person it will make sense to you.

I would also like to strongly urge you to seek counseling. We can only do our best but professional counseling is really crucial for you to sort out your own issues.

Finally, when reading your exchange with Onlywords, it crossed my mind. To ask you some questions as sort of an anology for you to focus on. Do you like the sight of blood or perhaps broken bones? I don't suppose you do, but if your H were in an accident with broken bones and bleeding profusly would you do your best to stop his bleeding so that he might survive??

Well, in a less dramatic way that is what we are asking you to do. We are NOT asking you to like it. We are NOT asking you to have "feelings" for it. We are asking you to stop the bleeding in your marriage and the only way to do that is put a bandage on your H's wounds.

I will also tell you some things that are bothering about your situation and the major one is your lack of action. There is a saying in the Bible "God helps those that help themselves." I am a scientist who once got a chance to tour a parapsychology lab back in the 70's. It was at a very famous university. They were conducting test on various forms of psychic behaviors to see if they could quantify them. One of things they observed is that some people seemed to have some ability to control dice when thrown by a machine, ie, the results were slightly better than probability. They did not know what to make of this except for one thing. It seemed that the only way that these people could do this was when the dice were in motion. THEN their abilities had some affect. In short the system needed energy in order for their minds to have any effect.

Now consider what I just said and consider the quote from the Bible. It means YOU have to supply the energy for change. You have to do SOMETHING, hence my advice. You have to have action and when you take it, then there is the chance of you getting out of your cycle. Your H is trying to supply it, but you are not allowing it into your life. You pray, but you are NOT allowing the results of your prayers into your life AND...therefore you are stuck.

BV, supply some energy to this situation, and the changes will come. Your prayers will be answered, but you must DO SOMETHING. Do you see what I am talking about? Is this making sense to you?

As my (American <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ) football coach in college once told me in a deep southern accent "D**n Boy, don't just stand there do something wrong right once in your life." He meant get after it, no matter what I did NOTHING was as bad as doing NOTHING, just standing there.

Finally, you said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now I wish I hadn’t have said that.
Now I feel stuck.
I am selfish person.
Yes I do want Mr BV but I feel I am a selfish and a terrible person for saying yes.
I feel I don’t know how to give him what he deserves </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BV, has it crossed your mind that it is probably a GOOD THING that none of us get what we deserved? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Quit trying to play God with your H. Just for once be kind to him, do SOMETHING. Let God give him what he deserves, you just need to be caring toward him.

PLease think about this.

God Bless,

JL

BV,

You don't know me, but I've been reading your posts, as well as onlywords and RAP's. I am a FWW. I haven't read through this whole string of posts, but I have been thinking about you since last night.

You mention things like you can't. You can't stop thinking about OM, you can't feel for your husband what you want. You can't think the positive things you want to think. I am a time management junkie. One thing that Stephen Covey talks about in dealing with family relationships is to have a key word when things get heated. His example is "Pause". I have been thinking that for you, the word could be something like Reverse. When you start thinking about the OM, say "Reverse" and think about your husband. When you are having negative thoughts, "reverse" and turn them around. Does that make sense?

I'll post more later, but I hope you think about what I've said and I hope it helps.

Michele

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 06:29 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

No BV, I am not giving up on you.

But, you need good counseling from a professional as well. A really good counselor can help you in ways we cannot. You are not talking to professionals here. And it is not an either/or situation. While this forum can be useful, it does not substitute for face to face, good counseling. Your H cannot be your counselor, although he can be your friend, your confidant, your lover, and your H. But, he should NOT try and be your counselor.

Many post here AND are seeking professional help. I think it would help you.

I notice that the only thing you seem to get from my words was that I recommended you seek professional help, but really you need to think about the rest as well.

God Bless,

JL

Dear BV,

It's so hard to explain in words what you have come to discover by your own experience, which is the main reason we all want you to just DO something...because as you act, you come to understand and KNOW things in a way that you just can't understand when someone else just tells you!
In my case, I really just did not know what to do. Recovering H wanted me to "touch" him. I didn't want to, but I did it anyway. He wanted me to tell him "I love you" and I didn't want to because I didn't FEEL like I did, at least according to the definition of the word I was working with at the time (which was love=passion or emotion or feeling).
One night Recovering H couldn't sleep. He woke me up and wanted to talk. He had trouble holding back the tears. He said he was afraid I wouldn't love him anymore, that I would never "feel" love towards him again (love being the emotion) and felt that I was just "going through the motions" and he didn't want that.
The LAST thing I wanted to do was sit there and watch him cry. I wanted to go back to bed. But I was determined to sit there as long as it took because HE did not take the EASY way out by divorcing me for what I had done. I still did not FEEL, at that point, that this was where I wanted to be, but I didn't have anything to lose by trying!
As we sat there and talked, I reassured him by telling him all the ways in which OM could never compete with him....number one and most obvious....the kids. They are our greatest accomplishment and biggest investment together. Who but my own husband could love them more? Not OM. This lifestyle we created together...it's one that suits us both. OM never had the opportunity to spend years and years showing me in a thousand small ways that he loves and cares for me and would stick by me for better or worse. My husband had already done that....OM could not compete. I could not compete with OM's wife in that regard, either.
As I talked, I realized what love REALLY is....and I found that the passion I was seeking, the "feelings" thing, wasn't what I really WANTED, and that what I WANTED, I ALREADY HAD!! I let go of that need for "feelings" and saw that he was always "loving" me and I was always "loving" him, definitely not perfectly by any means, but the intentions were always there. You know what else, BV? As I thought about what to say to you, I realized that whatever feelings I had for OM....I remember them, but oddly enough, I DO NOT MISS THEM!!! I hadn't even realized this. Why do I not miss that? Because it can't give you the kind of security and comleteness you really want.

See, I thought I knew what I wanted. And I thought I had found that in OM. But it was an illusion. It is not easy to see this at first, that is why we keep saying JUST DO SOMETHING, and have faith that in your journey, you WILL come to discover the truth for yourself.
There is NO OTHER WAY.
I know that you want something concrete, a magic formula, maybe, that will get you what you want....but the first thing you need to realize is that maybe what you are searching for isn't what you really want. Keep an open mind...don't be afraid. The treasure you find will not be what you expected. It will be much better!

Ask God to take your small "unfeeling" gestures and use them to build a better marriage for you and Mr. BV....He will! That is your small offering, your sacrifice, offered to God....your small fish and piece of bread that when given to God, will turn into enough to feed ten thousand!

God WILL bless you!

Julie

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 06:32 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

Soooo BV,

If you are listening and thinking, what is your plan to address this situation? That is afterall all that counts: your plan and your actions.

You see one of the hardest things about what you are doing, and yes you are pretty normal, is that you are denying what you say is true. You claim to love your H even if you are not inlove with him. You claim you never wanted to leave him, even in the deepest part of your fog, but you did leave him and you are still gone from him.

You claim to care for your H, but you cannot bring yourself to be caring.

Do you see the problem here? Do you see why you may ultimately lose your H. I know you don't believe that will happen, but what you have failed to factor into this, is that God is going to look after your H as well, and eventually if you don't exercise your free will to do the right things, there will be consequences.

Am I trying to put the "fear of God" in you? Not really, but there is something to be feared there don't you think?

You have choices, but really you continue to lie to yourself and your H about many things. And oddly the OM is not one of them or even the real issue. Actually, your affair is NOT the issue. The issue is whether or not you love your H at all. I am not talking about "feeling" like you love him, but really love him. You would not treat a dear friend as you have him. That is what you are going to held accountable for, and what I am constantly poking at with you now.

It is what Pep has constantly poked at, your absorption with yourself rather than the pain you are inflicting.

So to break the circle, you need to decide to focus starting to bring the words you say here into a consistent state with the actions you show and do toward your H. That is my opinion.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 06:36 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 06:38 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

BV,

If you want me to stop posting let me know and I will. If I decide to stop posting to you I will let you know. Please stop with the games, I am not one to play them. As you know I tell people what I think and when I decide to stop I will tell them as well.

I will look forward to posting to your H. I will probably think of a few questions for him, but I suspect it would be best to start with a few hello's and some introductions. It is likely to be late my time which I think is about 10 hours different from your's, when I do post as I am very busy with some work right now that is not going as I would like.

You may be surprised but my first question to him is very simple: How may I help him? Just as everyone here has done their best to help you, I/we will do ou4 best to help him with this recovery.

Must go.

God Bless,

JL

BV,

You might find this link very interesting. Dr. Phil

I look forward to hearing from Mr. BV. I hope we get the chance to chat.

God Bless,

JL

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 06:39 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

BV, stop beating yourself up.

We've all been where you are now, believe me. You're no worse than any of us FWW's - exactly the same.

I didn't find MB till I was a bit further on than you. If I'd found out when I was where you are now I would be writing exactly what you are now.

Please take hope from where I am now. Do you know how good it is when the pain's gone and you are happy again?

Believe me, I NEVER thought I would be in this place of recovery, but I am. We're very resiliant us humans, be proud of any steps forward you make. I think you've already made quite a few steps forward. Be proud of them. Have "guts" like my dear, very missed, dad used to say.

There really is an end to the pain you know. Read my post to Onlywords, if you haven't already, and see how lovely it can be to be in love with your H all over again.

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess if I look deep into myself, it also hurts that OM was able to just 'walk away' from all this and I'm the 'emotional wreck' left behind trying to sort my life out in the 'after effects'.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">BV, are you SURE he has "just" been able to walk away? How do you know he is not also suffering? I remember in one of your posts recently that you saw him somewhere and you said he had a pained expression on his face. You know, things are not always as they seem. Maybe he thinks YOU are not suffering. How would either of you possibly know what the other is going through? I used to think the OM in my situation just was able to "get on" with his life and wasn't suffering enough, but I realized that was wrong for me to want, and stupid for me to assume. Maybe when he saw me in passing he thought I didn't look like I was suffering....geez, how could you know one way or another?
BV, we all KNOW that you are REALLY a good, wonderful, caring person. That is who you truly are. The A covered that person up. It didn't turn you into a "bad" person....it is more like a mask that you put on and wore for so long that you started to think that is what you really look like! You do not have to carry this around with you. Really, BV...why do you think Jesus died on that cross?

When your kids do something wrong, do you want THEM to suffer endlessly for it? Or do you just want them to understand what they did, why it was wrong, learn from it and move on? Be as good to yourself as you would be to your kids, your friends, your husband....you have as much to give anyone as you did before the A...no, even MORE!
It is hard for us to see you suffering like this when you don't need to...there is this gift called forgiveness that is being held out to you....just take it!

God Bless,
Julie

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 06:40 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>

<small>[ July 26, 2004, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Broken Vessell ]</small>