BV,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will reply to you again tonight NC. Really appreciate your input on how you thought I handled the SF thing with Mr BV (would you have been hurt if it had been no frills, or just glad??) Hope RAP doesn’t mind me asking for your personal input to me on this.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are gonna lose a little ground with RAP on this one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> She is internally cringing about this because her husband doesn’t really get embarrassed and isn’t really afraid to say anything.
But since you jumped on the “RAP REALLY HAS HER HANDS FULL” bandwagon, I guess you should get a little taste of what life is like for RAP being married to me, LOL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />
So ya wanna start a sex thread, eh?
Let’s talk about water coolers first.
WARNING: SEVERAL GROSS GENERALIZATIONS TO FOLLOW, NO OFFENSE INTENDED. IF YOU ARE OFFENDED, GO READ SOMETHING ELSE.I THINK or GUESS that women like to talk about relationships. They define who they are by how they relate to others. So when women gather around the “water cooler” they talk about relationship aspects, including sex. I think because of this, women in general, have an unfair advantage over their male partners in that they have more exposure to what other relationships are like in this arena. Men, on the other hand, define who they are based on competition. Their water cooler talk tends to be about competitive things. Like me and JL would talk about who could derive the Navier-Stokes fluid flow equation faster. Or sports, maybe. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Competitive things. Guys learn it is OK not to be the best over time, but can’t handle not being the best in ONE area. SEX. So we avoid the discussion. I mean the relationship part of it, how frequent, how long, how well, etc. The caveman part is OK – “Boy, I’d sure like to roll in the hay with …” No competition there so we are comfortable.
So when you ask what you have asked, you are asking ME a very hard thing to answer. Fortunately for you, and unfortunately for RAP <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , I have no compunctions or fear of saying anything that would embarrass me. But I must warn you, this is not ALL guys or MOST guys. It may not be ANY guy but me. I just don’t know. It just isn’t “water cooler” discussion for us. Further, I am now in a smaller subset of the part of the population that the fairer sex good-naturedly? dubs Cro-Magnon man in that I am now a BS. Further, I am probably in an even smaller subset because I have only been with one woman. So if that paradigm interests you, or if you feel that you might glean something from this, then by all means do.
Attention male BS who are reading this, a second or third of my opinion would be nice.NCWalker’s Thoughts on Sex
First, I like it. Lots. Why? Harley has this list of ENs and he says IN GENERAL that SF is high on the male list. It is. Why? Well, the reason is two-fold for a guy. There is a physical urge and there is an emotional need.
THE PHYSICAL URGE: A guy NEEDS to ejaculate. If he doesn’t, it starts affecting his judgments. The balance of power of what a guy does essentially shifts to the “little general” if the little guy doesn’t get to have his “21-gun salute.” It is essentially as simple as that. Now this physical urge can be satisfied in a number of ways. If the guy has no morals or principles, this will be satisfied any way he can (the OM does this). If the guys morals and principles are intact, it will either be his wife or his girlfriend, Palmela Handerson. If you catch my meaning. The urge is as real as the woman changing moods during PMS. But we are guys, MEN, and supposed to be strong. Society treats the female PMS mood swing as an OK and a part of life, even celebrated and used as an excuse for behavior. While the “little general having his parade” is the butt of jokes. Notice how I am actually referring to this in my response to you. As a joke. But it is not a joking matter. It is a real, physical need. This PHYSICAL satisfaction carries NO or LITTLE EMOTIONAL attachment. For all you WW out there, if you are wondering HOW the OM can compartmentalize the PA, this is EXACTLY it. If he was only satisfying his PHYSICAL urge, he wasn’t EMOTIONALLY connecting. This will sound crass, but the nearest parallel I could use to explain it to a woman would be a satisfying bowel movement. There is this pent up feeling, followed by a release that feels good, followed by a mental, kind of euphoric state, of “Man, I feel much better now.” And that’s pretty much it. Kind of boring when you get right down to it. I’m not saying the OM did not connect with you WWs emotionally, I’m just saying it is much easier for a guy to compartmentalize this than you think.
THE EMOTIONAL NEED: And praise God for this, because if IT weren’t a part of this, all you gals out there would think we were maniacs. There IS an emotional need a guy has that is part of the process of intercourse and all it’s various forms. When a guy has intercourse with a girl, they connect on many levels. At least to him. It is a physical thing, but to us it is MUCH more. Remember the water cooler? We are not supposed to talk feelings. We are the MEN. This is probably the ONLY way most guys are REALLY comfortable expressing and being emotional with their wives. I mean I can talk to RAP emotionally and I strive to do so, but it is unnatural for me. I have to CHOOSE to do it. I ENJOY it, but if left to my OWN devices, my choice to emotionally express, connect, bond, whatever, to her would be through intercourse. Is that hard for a female to understand? I don’t know. I think so, but I don’t know. To us, that act of intercourse is an EXPRESSION of love. It is a way you, as the wife, would EXPRESS love to us, so we think it means the same to you. Just like Harley says, you GIVE then ENs you WANT.
I think that my wife ALLOWING me to make love to her is a gift, each and every time. Notice emphasis on the word ALLOW. That is how I feel about it most times, when it happens regularly. This is where it gets a little complicated. If the little general hasn’t seen any combat, he tends to be in charge and my mental state shifts from this wondrous allow/gift thing to more like “It’s about d@mn time.” These two urges are COUPLED and it has to be confusing to you gals.
Now the question: Am I satisfying my man? How do I do that? That depends on WHAT you are trying to satisfy. The EMOTIONAL NEED or the PHYSICAL URGE. When you do BOTH, THAT is when the H gets all starry eyed. But believe me, we’ll TAKE either one. I’m just saying it is earth-shaking and very satisfying when you do BOTH.
So how do you know? Here is my take on it. The EMOTIONAL NEED is the more constant of the two. It has it’s highs and lows, just like any emotional need. It has an average level, with some slight variation. Thinks swells on a gentle sea. The PHYSICAL URGE is wholly dependent on how long it has been since the little general lead the parade. Think the teeth of a saw. Steady climb, then sharp drop off, steady climb, sharp drop, ….
You will ring your husbands bells when you catch BOTH at a peak. And how the act of intercourse goes will play into that.
So here we go, what makes sex good?
The Available Wife: This is the W that is not really into it. A little bit of rubbing and caressing from the H, she relents, etc. Duty sex. Probably the prevalent form after an A while the wife is in the fog.
THE GENERAL THINKS: Wow, that was nice. I enjoyed that. ONLY if he is up on the saw tooth a good ways. If he is not, he may not have anything to say:)
THE HUSBAND THINKS: That was OK. But I kind of feel bad about it. I think I just used my wife. Husband can actually feel guilty about it. His amount of guilt will be related to how strong the EN was.
THE OVERALL PICTURE: Look. Men typically don’t reject sex. We’ll take what we can get. But this kind doesn’t carry the connection. It still can be nice, but we know in the back of our minds it wasn’t what it could be.
The Guilty Wife: This is the W who is not really into it, but feels she “owes” the husband. Maybe for the A, maybe because she went out with the girls last night, maybe because it has been a while and H seems like a pathetic, loved starved puppy. Not into it, BUT INITIATES it.
THE GENERAL THINKS: Whoa-Hoah. She wants me. I am the greatest, most powerful general in the world. Only dependent on the sawtooth for performance. Does he have the ammo?
THE HUSBAND THINKS: THAT was interesting. Probably surprises him, because all he hears about women and sex is that it is MORE than sex. But here she is….
THE OVERALL PICTURE: May be confusing, VERY tied to where his EN is at the time – high or low. Still likes it. Could turn into earth-shattering sex IF EN is high enough in H and IF W DOES NOT SHUT DOWN AFTER. Like jump up to get cleaned up. Or get something to eat. If the EN level is low and the W is “finished” when it is over, no cuddling, chit chat, etc., the H will feel pretty guilty.
The Seduced Wife: This is the wife who WANTS to after the H starts something. The wife is “in” to it and probably achieves the O. My guess the most prevalent type of “normal” sex life. Hard to achieve after A because image of OM is in husbands head – does she REALLY want to?
THE GENERAL THINKS: Let’s roll, big guy. It is USUALLY the general who starts things. No worries about where he is on the saw tooth, since he is starting it.
THE HUSBAND THINKS: She loves me BECAUSE she responds to me. I turn her on and it makes me feel like a man.
THE OVERALL PICTURE: Strong chance of the earth-shaking sex, ESPECIALLY if the wife has the O. That is IMPORTANT to the man. Makes him feel like a man. Can actually be ruined if the W shuts down after. The MAN may want to roll over and go to sleep, but it is a HUGE feed to his ego, a HUGE love bank deposit if the woman wants to lay on his chest and stroke him after, or something like that. Especially if he DOES fall asleep and does not get teased or yelled at about it. Understandably, it may be hard for the woman to do, but this is one of those times where she makes the choice – do I give or take? I am not saying she should ALWAYS give, but she needs to understand what it does for the man if she does.
The Uninhibited Wife: The wife who WANTS to AND INITIATES. I’m not talking saying “Let’s have sex” after climbing in bed, or rubbing your tushy into the crotch. That is essentially just a signal that you are, or want to be, the Seduced Wife above. I’m talking about calling him home for lunch and having a special surprise waiting, or joining him in the shower when he doesn’t expect it, or waking the general up first in the morning, or, frankly, doing most anything with the general outside of the home.
THE GENERAL THINKS: ATTENTION!! FALL IN TROOPS!
THE HUSBAND THINKS: I have married a porn star, my life is complete!
THE OVERALL PICTURE: You know those women who get what they want using sex as a weapon? This is them. They know how to play both needs, even if the act is not involved. An interested, forward woman is the most DANGEROUS thing around a man. And a WIFE who is that way is perhaps one of a husband’s biggest rewards. I am not saying if you are not like this all the time, you are a bad wife, but you have no idea what this says to your husband on BOTH levels. The only possible way this is not effective and would lead to earth-shaking him would be if the “general” was just in battle. And even then, maybe not.
Here is the rub. I am guessing MOST BS that are men think you WERE “The Uninhibited Wife” with the OM. THAT is what makes it so hard for us to get through this. That is why the SF for the male BS is such a strange beast.
Now let’s talk after the A a bit. And I’ll try and be brief. Here are some of the things going through a guy’s head AFTER the A:
- Did he satisfy her more?
- Why can’t she be the “Uninhibited Wife” with me?
- I am going to mark my turf again.
- Is she thinking about him now?
- I can’t believe she gave THIS to another guy.
- I can’t believe another guy was here.
So what have you ladies done to us? There is now a THIRD component to the gentle swell of the EN and the sawtooth shape of the physical need. And that is a repugnance for what you did. And the difficulty is where now all three lie in relation to one another for the guy to enjoy post A sex.
I am guessing that this repugnance component will dwindle and taper off with time and as the BS forgives you. Maybe an occasional blip. But you WW are talking triggers all the time, and how hard they are to handle. You have to remember that to US, SEX is now a trigger. YOU may have some enjoyable memories/feelings from the affair. And a good feeling is not intrinsically wrong, it is the choice you make based on the feeling that is. But you have to remember we (the BS) DON’T have any good feelings or memories of the A.
IMVHO BOTH partners are going to have to MAKE these good memories during the Recovery Period. And here is where the Enemy’s INSIDIOUS plot that IS the A really comes to fruition. The quickest, most effective way the BH will be able to put the A behind is if the WW is the “Uninhibited Wife.” But the best the WW can probably do is the “Available Wife.” The reasons for both points of view are pretty simple and straightforward. That is what is so damaging by this ploy of the Enemy that the couple faces. What will it take to get through? Patience and Understanding.
OK. Now that you have all had a look in to the male BS mind (or mine at least), here is my answer to BVs question.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will reply to you again tonight NC. Really appreciate your input on how you thought I handled the SF thing with Mr BV
(would you have been hurt if it had been no frills, or just glad??) Hope RAP doesn’t mind me asking for your personal input to me on this.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don’t know. The only way to know would be to have sex and see. Here are the possible outcomes:
I couldn’t perform, you withdrew after – triggers, general recently had a solo parade, whatever. It must be HORRIBLE for the WW to go through that, it must feel like rejection from her H. If the BH couldn’t and the WW withdrew, the H EN would be KILLED. Would definitely feel like you preferred the OM and I was letting you down. The withdraw would carry a kind of finality for me.
I couldn’t perform, you were understanding – Here is where the WW really has to buckle down. If you make yourself available in this emotional time, and the BS can’t perform, you MUST be understanding. The BS will be beating himself up and feeling pretty crappy. Let him know you know it will take time to fix and you are willing to keep trying.
I could perform, you withdrew after – If it started with the understanding we were going to test the waters, I would be OK with this. If you started crying, it would be harder. But I would have at least the Physical Urge and some of the EN satisfied.
I could perform, you did NOT withdraw – Would be a BIG LB deposit. Would let me know that you were getting over the OM. Would let me know you loved me and wanted me. Especially if you performed as Uninhibited Wife. Would be hard to do, recently after A.
Remember my comment about UNDERSTANDING? This act carries such significance with a man, due to the duality of it, the coupled nature, I would consider it dangerous grounds during the early part of recovery. Could take big steps forward or backward with it. If either party does not reasonably understand what the other party is going through, it would be hard.
My final comment. I DO reasonably understand what RAP is going through. And because of this, if the ACT itself did not go off as planned, or poorly, I WOULD, after some time appreciate the effort it took her to be available. Even though I might be hurt or angry just after. UNDERSTANDING is the lock, COMMUNICATION is the key.
BV, I’ll answer your question with a question. Given the explanation of how I feel about it, you tell me, was Mr. BV hurt or glad?
NCWalker
