Hi JL,

i must admit, i have not kept up with everything here. i did read that BV was going to stop posting, i did read that some were questioning if there was an issue with how dependent BV was on you. i think i have that basically right. I have been watching to see if BV has come back but have not seen her as yet. I do hope she does or if not she finds other help.

i wanted to say i don't think what you said is cold at all. i can't say i understand what motivates you to spend so much time here posting but i do think you are wonderful for caring and reaching out as much as you do. i think you are a huge blessing to this board.

i may or may not really get myself/life/marriage back together but one thing i am sure of, my life has benefitted from this board and you are certainly one big reason.

I think JL should give up being a physicist (how boring is that?) and be a psychologist instead.

Believer,

Perhaps you are right, but heck if I could read people that well, I need to go to Vegas and become a Texas Holdem, player right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You know the interesting thing about my work, is that there is a bit of psychology in it. It is principally (sp?) internally driven work so one has to understand what drives oneself if you are to be successful. And then you have to deal with characters <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> like 2Long, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> who is in a very related field to mine. He is a cool guy, I might add.

Or WAT who also is the techie sort, although he may not admit it any more. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

But, you know somehow I don't think I would get quite the kick out of being a pyschologist as I do out of dueling it out with nature every day.

A friend of mine used to say: When you ask Nature a question you get one of two answers: NO! or maybe!

But every now and then in your life you get a quiet: Yes, and it makes it all worth it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

It is pretty humbling to realize that the more you know the less you know. But, learning is fun and that is what it is all about.

Must go.

JL

Well thanks, JL. You're pretty nifty yourself!

And if you don't want 2 do Psychology, maybe I can bend you over 2 the geological side of life! (perhaps we could get stoned 2gether!) Geology ROCKS!

Yeah, we get a lot more "maybes" and even "NO!s" than the 2uiet "yesses", but you're right. When the yesses come along, it's downright goosebumpy!

I've gotten a lot of maybes in the past 6 months, and a few yesses, which is 2uite a refreshing change from the peals of laughter I got 20 years ago before any of my then-new hypotheses could be tested.

About appropriateness: I correspond with a few people pretty regularly here, and have met a few - male and female - in person. I think I can honestly say, though, that I've not worried about inappropriate things happenning between us, because after what *I've* been through, the last thing I could imagine doing would be having an A... ...and there are some truly beautiful personalities on here. I think I'd rather move myself in2 a mud hut on a mountaintop in Tibet than have an inappropriate relationship with someone who I've gained even a modicum of trust from.

...anyways, I'm almost JL's age! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ...which makes me pretty safe, 2!

-ol' 2long

<small>[ July 30, 2004, 05:27 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

Believer,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think JL should give up being a physicist (how boring is that?) and be a psychologist instead.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I hope that was in jest. If not, that is a pretty close-minded outlook on life. Why is it that you all assume that those of us who are technically minded are boring? I have found that we have a lot more personality and uniqueness than is generally given credit. Just because JL is a physicist and 2long is a geologist does not condemn them to a boring life. In fact, I daresay that some of the things you are exposed to at the edge of science are far more rewarding and fascinating than the life of a psychologist. Yes, it involves hard work and lots of no's and maybes, but the quiet yesses they talk of are well worth the effort.

One of my personal heroes said:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Poets say science takes away from the beauty of the stars - mere globs of gas atoms. I, too, can see the stars on a desert night, and feel them. But do I see less or more? - Richard P. Feynman</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If you wish to dispel the stuffy, lab coat wearing MYTH of the scientifically minded, expand your horizon and read Dr. Feynman's biography. Here is a list to get you started:

Genius - by James Gleick (a rather complete work on the life of Dr. Feynman)

Surley Your Joking, Mr. Feynman - (Can't remember the author, a lighter collection of anecdotes.)

Infinity - a movie starring Matthew Broderick as Richard Feynman and tells the story of his early life an first wife who died of leukemia.

I saw your picture on the photo thread of you and your WH. Nice Harley. How would you feel if I jumped to the "typical" conclusion of bikers and judged you because of your iron horse? Some of the best people I know are bikers and I do not draw conclusions that way.

If Science = boring to you, you are really missing out on something.

NCW

(I hope that was in jest).

NC - I was kidding. Although the scientific, visual side of my brain is the deadzone.

I work with 15 engineers, and they are so into it, that it is strange (to me).

Usually people have talents in one area or the other. You, 2-long, and JL seem to have talents in many areas. I admire that.

If the world had to depend on me figuring things out, we would still be in the stone age.

So I praise you three for being so well-rounded.

Believer,

Don't worry I knew you were kidding. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

NCW, I like that quote by Feynman. He was a very interesting character. I never got to meet Feynman, but knew is advisor in Grad school. I was interested in work Feynman and John Wheeler had done in the 40's and once spent about 5-6 hours discussing it with Prof. Wheeler. It was very funny because it was somewhat at odds with Feynman's book. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I told Feynman's sister (she is also a scientist) the story at a meeting one time, she just laughed and said that sounded about right for those two.

I won't regale you with the details, but YUP us nerds do have some fun. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Don't we 2Long? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You know what is fun about science and engineering? You get to do what you enjoy and they actually pay you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Time to leave for the weekend. You all have a good one.

JL

<small>[ July 30, 2004, 06:37 PM: Message edited by: Just Learning ]</small>

Okay, for all you scientists - I have been reading a book called "Freedom from the Ties that Bind", by Guy Finley. It is a spiritual book, but not in the religious sense.

Guy talks about how most events are just events, or circumstances. It is how we respond and think about the events that determines how they effect us.

The interesting thing is that I always thought my mind was me. But that is not true. My mind is just a bundle of energy. It just kind of thinks on its own. I can be thinking of what a nice day it is, and then it kinda just takes off on its own.

I have been doing NC's "don't go there" for about 12 days now. Guess what? I am not obsessing about my WH and OW anymore. Today I only thought about them once.

I was thinking that this would be of some benefit for the WW's here. It only took me 12 days. I believe that this would work for them.

What do you all think?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If the world had to depend on me figuring things out, we would still be in the stone age.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He, he Believer, me too LOL.

"It is not my concern" was our mantra on the "Letting go of OM" thread and it worked really well for me.

Jenny

Ladies - I just got an email from BrokenVessel - she could not get your addresses, but if you would like to contact her, email me at digsblues@aol.com.

By the way, she seems to be doing okay.

Believer,

I actually addressed this way back on one of CHackler’s threads. Talked more about it from a spiritual standpoint - flesh, soul, spirit. 3 are 1, just like God and all that. Right Here

I think there is a strong spiritual connection, that is a great aid in changing your behavior, but since you asked for a scientific answer, I will do my best to answer.

Bear in mind I am NOT a behavioral scientist or anything like that, this is just my personal observations. But I do have a scientific eye. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Two definitions:

BRAIN – The electrochemical processes that go on inside the ole gray matter. The mechanics of thinking that can be damaged by disease, or injury. Or that can be impaired by controlled substances.

MIND – Also the “will” or “soul.” This is WHO you are. This is the part that disappears when you die. Your uniqueness that makes you more than just a pile of chemicals having an electro chemical reaction.

OK.

Why do professional athletes train? Muscle memory. They undergo repetitive movements so their bodies get used to moving in a certain way that is advantageous to the physical goal they are trying to accomplish. Swing the golf club, dismount the gymnastics horse, whatever. It is that muscle memory that makes them look natural and makes the event seem difficult to those who have not developed it. The muscles “learn” the pattern of impulses that fire to achieve the trained result.

What about brain memory? How do you remember your phone number? Or the way home from work? Is there anything you learned in school that you used to be able to do well that you no longer can? Did you keep practiced at it? No. Or you would still be able to do it.

This brain memory is essentially just a habit. Some are good, some are bad. Most think of something like smoking as a habit. And it is. And it is hard to break because it ALSO involves a chemical stimulus – nicotine. I know people who have quit smoking and many say that they also miss “something to do with their hands” or “something in their mouth.” Brain memory and the feeling that go with it.

But everything you do repetitively becomes a habit. Put on your undies BEFORE your pants. A habit. Do you really have to THINK about it to do it? No, you just do it. Try this – put on your pants before your undies. It will feel really unnatural. Not that it is intrinsically wrong, it just goes against your habit.

Brainwashing, military training, school, all geared to developing habits in your brain so it THINKS the same way. Repetitive thought. Your brain gets used to thinking that way.

So now you have an obsessive thought about WH/OW and you think “Don’t go there.” And it seems to be working. I would ask, why are you surprised?

You are simply using your WILL to retrain your BRAIN. You can do it at any time, override your brain with your will I mean. It is just not always easy. But by staying after it, or having “mantras” as people here are wont to say, you are retraining your BRAIN. Then eventually it naturally will NOT want to obsess over WH/OW. You have broken the habit, or brainwashed yourself. That is when it becomes easy to think the “right” way, the way your WILL desires.

How is that spiritual? I believe the will is the soul. It will be what goes to heaven when the time comes. The brain is part of the flesh, able to be tempted by the enemy. So when we succumb to temptation, we have let our brain get the better of our will. How do we stop? Break the habit, the pattern of neurons firing we are used to.

Remembering a new phone number is easy. It is a simple matter. But habits that are hard usually involve another piece. Some chemical reaction that stimulates a pleasure center in our brain. Nicotine from smoking, caffeine from coffee, endorphins/adrenaline from an affair. WILL can still overcome BRAIN, but it must also tell the pleasure center “that’s not good” when clearly the pleasure center doesn’t want to hear it. Simple really. Pick a mantra and stick with it, it will eventually become the way you naturally think.

NCW

NC - Well I guess I never thought about it like that. I always thought the old brain was me. But come on, this brain goes all over the map.

My brain does very well with doing what I need to do at work. It will get very focused. I have good concentration.

On the other hand, my brain goes crazy - all over the place. It starts out in one place and continues to march. I always thought that was normal.

Now I know that I can rein it in. I can say "don't go there" and guess what? After only 12 days, it doesn't go there anymore. Weird.

It is extremely interesting to me. Just tell the brain not to think about it, and it doesn't. Now it is thinking about other things. Wow, what a relief.

Are we talking science here? I LOVE IT!!!

If I had to do it all over again I would be a cosmologist. Check out this website:

Picture of the day

Some cool stuff there!

I have to admit...I'm a little bemused.

Let me see if I can set the record straight.eh?


JL...when you said... However, there was NO CHANCE of any inappropriate feelings or behavior. What I get out of this site is seeing people overcome these things and their marriages start to prosper. I don't really get any relationship out of it.

Perhaps there is some misunderstanding with the choice of the word "inappropriate". I am talking in the context of the Helper/Helpee relationship. Not some wild beginnings to some illicit internet affair.

Also ,I would beg to differ on you JL saying you get no relationship out of it. Coz... You see, you do! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ...you place yourself in a helper role as soon as you reply to a poster in disress...you begin to form a relationship with them. We form many differing types of relationships in our lives. Some are helper/helpee.

The warning flags I saw popping up in this thread can pop up in female to female, male to male, male to female, and female to male. Its not that uncommon when these roles are taken...and its not healthy.

Perhaps JL you can relfect back on your most recent post...To see if you can see what I have been observing.


Now if I had known, I would have been unable to get back here after posting my post...I would have postponed it...but the fact remains I still would have posted it.


Max

PS Onlywords...I cant make heads nor tails of your post.Sorry.

Max,

That's ok....I don't understand most of what you say either....guess we're on a different wavelength.

Onlywords

Ahem, I repeat -


Ladies - I just got an email from BrokenVessel - she could not get your addresses, but if you would like to contact her, email me at digsblues@aol.com.

By the way, she seems to be doing okay.

Believer,

Thank you! Have just sent you an e-mail...tried to do it earlier but Yahoo was having problems. Also sent Faith1 pics of me and my baskets....so look for her to post them to the MB album.

Thanks again,


Julie

Max,

P.S.

wasn't trying to be sarcastic there....just re-read it and it sounds that way. I don't mean to imply anything, other than I'm "lost" sometimes....it's probably me! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Nevermind what I said in that post....it wasn't important.

Onlywords

Hey ladies - Hope everyone is having a good weekend. I know weekends are the hardest.

I'm feeling great because WH didn't move back in like he threatened yesterday. I have been stressing about that.

Anyone doing anything fun?

Chackler,

Isn't a cosmologist a fancy beutician?

Ooops. Sorry. That's a cosmotologist. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

NCW