Question, My WW is so wrapped up in the OM, she thinks that I am full of it when I tell her that my reactions to her A are from all stand point normal and so are hers? Just today I found WAT's Quick Start for BS. It is spooky how to the T she is acting. But she will not beleive me when I tell her that I understand. It all make sense to me. She thinks that I am trying to stand between her and him when I tell her that "It is good that they have backed off and are just friends for now. That she needs some one on the outside to talk to. That no matter what she does she has my full support. (Just no papers right now) But she is seeing it as thaat I am trying to turn her words around. I need a different approach on this matter.

I've also tryed to contact the OM's W but my wife told me that she (the OM's W) is ok with the A. UHHH? My wife told me that the OM sat his W down the other night when he found out that I was trying to make contact and told her about the A. She apparently had no problem with this and was still going to work on their relationship. I have a strong feeling that he did not tell her all the facts. I still feel that she needs to know all that I do. But they are theataning a restraining order if I continue to try to make contact. I have a notion to make copies of everything that I have and mail them to her. But he does check the mail regularly. I wish I only knew were she worked at.

Also with this latest my wife is telling me that she is fearful of everyones safety now. I am not a violant person and this coment is devastating me. How can I turn this around?

My tunnel is growing longer.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by knowtomuch:
<strong>I've also tryed to contact the OM's W but my wife told me that she (the OM's W) is ok with the A. UHHH? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yep, and the Pope's not Catholic.

Now, back off some.

Continue to try to locate and contact OM's W, but DO NOT tip your wife off to this.

Drop back and be cool. Time is on your side. Trying to reason and communicate with your W about all this is having the opposite affect.

Ever try to reason with a drunk? Same thing.

Leave her alone.

Do not deny her the opportunity to get a full dose of OM with all his warts.

Find a copy of Frank Pittman's book, "Private Lies." It'll help a lot.

WAT

<small>[ July 12, 2004, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

I agree with WAT...back off...contact OM wife and dont tell wife about it.

There is a game here and you must be a better player if you want to win it.

There is a few things you could do to get her to see the light but it is not guaranteed to work with everyone. However some people have some success to it. For your info...i have tried ALL and nothing seemed to work for my WS. I guess it all depends on each individual.

But what of the LB that will follow when she finds out. I'm trying to build our trust again i.g. Plan A. I have told her that I was unsure of what I would do from here. As to continue to try to make contact or not. She has expressed a great concern for the contact and as asked me to tell her everything. She has also stated that she will be very upset with me on this. Then there is the restraning order that they are toying with. If this ends up in court how will that hurt me?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by knowtomuch:
<strong>.... But they are theataning a restraining order if I continue to try to make contact. I have a notion to make copies of everything that I have and mail them to her. But he does check the mail regularly. I wish I only knew were she worked at.

Also with this latest my wife is telling me that she is fearful of everyones safety now. I am not a violant person and this coment is devastating me. How can I turn this around?......... </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Who is 'they'? This sounds like a WS/OP tactic. Meant to scare. Don't be scared. You said you weren't violent. Call you local police and share you story. Then ask if you have an RO against you. They will document your call and 'if' someone tries to file an RO, it will already be notated that you checked it out with your story on record. That is what I did. The OW threatened RO on me several times and even threatened to get me fired from work. She doesn't work where I do but the stupid nut thought she had pull. WRONG!!!! I called my police dept, her poilice dept and my HR dept along with my boss. I covered my angles and she never followed through but all were on alert for her stupid antics. When she threatened again, I told her to go ahead.

A long time ago a sales person where I used to work, threatened to go to the general manager of my division because I would do any illegal acts that would have given him comission. I told him to go ahead and if he wanted, I would call the GM to tell him to expect his call. Then I went to the GM to inform him. See I was not doing anything wrong. The GM and I spoke 2 wks later and nothing happened. In fact that sales person never went to the GM. The GM andI had good repore so I felt safe.

I am glad I had that experience before. When the Ow got stupid, it was easier to call her bluff.

L.

OF COURSE she will be upset with you if you make contact with OM's W!!!!!

This is a necessary and calculated LB.

Do you know why?

Because it reveals secrets!

I am not an attorney, but I do not think a restraining order has legs here. In fact, it's pretty surreal, don't you think? If anything, you should be getting a restraining order on OM. I suggest you retain an attorney - and don't tell your wife this - to see what is really doable on their part.

That said, you MUST NOT harass them. Contacting OM's W should not be construed as harasment, but constantly stalking them or confronting them may be.

I suspect there is no reasonable court case here on their part. She sounds desperate to me.

Back off, get a lawyer, and consider hiring a PI if you can't locate OM's W any other way. I will almost guarantee she's clueless.

WAT

OK, so I will back out of her A. Focus on us and call the police and try not to be a "stalker"
Thanks WAT Now I'm flappen in the wind on this one.


I'm going to pounder this one. I'll see ya in the Morning and let you folks know what I decide.

How did some of your WW's respond to informing the OM's W?

How can I turn this into a giver not a taker?

I hope Jake is up for a long night agian. (Jake=Dog My worldly pal)

In time of darkness think of light thoughts and your world will become light again.

<small>[ July 12, 2004, 08:15 PM: Message edited by: knowtomuch ]</small>

Right now, you are already Public Enemy #1.

May as well take advantage of it!

Know - you HAVE to tip off OM's W. Absolutely imperitive. The pluses out weigh the minuses.

No queestion, no debate, no delay.

This is fundamental.

Think about it one more time - why do they NOT want you to do this? Hmmmmmm? Because it upsets their fantasy world.

Find her and do it pronto. Your hesitation is normal, and so will be the reactions.

WAT

Ask yourself this...if OMW is okaey-dokey with her H hooking up with your wife and he told her everything, then why is she upset and/or worried about you contacting her? HHmmmmmm?!?! Why the restraining order threat? And it is a threat. Unless you have made any threats against them or showed any violent behavior, there is no grounds for an RO.

I am willing to bet the OMW knows nothing. Find her, tell her all. Then sit back and watch the fireworks. As WAT said, this is a calculated LB. It must be done. The A timer doesnt start ticking down until light is cast upon it. Once you cast light upon it be letting everyone involved know, then it is only a matter of time.

Look back at Heroswife's posts a few months ago. She was so upset because she was afraid that if she went to the OWH, that it would make her WH run away. Guess what happened? The exact opposite. Go find her posts.

A lot of the MB principles are counter-intuitive. They arent what we would think is the right thing to do. We see our spouses "in love," and think it is over. When the facts show that what they call "love" is so temporary, that it puts love sick teenagers to shame.

Same goes with shining the light of day on this. It will make her angry...that is for sure. My wife was plenty angry when I was "spreading the news around town" (as she put it). But it was necessary.

Read this site and find all the times like Heroswife where they didnt want to do it...then did it. And look what happened.

You dont see it now, but it is the only way. So, get with it.

In His arms.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by knowtomuch:
But what of the LB that will follow when she finds out. I'm trying to build our trust again i.g. Plan A.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Know, you are not the one who has to rebuild trust here. It is she who has to rebuild trust, not you. And yes, it is ok to make your W mad by telling the OMW. This will help end the affair and is a POSTIVE move. You should not ever help her hide the affair. You do so at your OWN EXPENCE.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has expressed a great concern for the contact and as asked me to tell her everything. She has also stated that she will be very upset with me on this. Then there is the restraning order that they are toying with.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A restraining order for WHAT? What are you doing? And again, it is ok if she is upset. She will get over it, however your marriage will NOT get over the affair if you don't do something to break it up, such as tell the OMW.

OK, I'm going to back off. I got even closer to the truth last night when I called. She is very nervous on me contacting the OM's W. This is not her. I also gave her the reins last night. I just hope that she dosn't trip herself up.
I can forgive her for the A but tearing the family appart for a fantisy is what I must forgive now.

I have tried to stay to close to her and that is what has done this to us. So I am going to BACK OFF.

Sorry WAT didn't mean to jump at your comment. I have become obbsesive with our M and I guess some do say I am to intuned to what is going on. So I guess I will get closer to the deck.

Yes, they are always are real nervous about exposure to the OP's spouse, because it usually ends their affair and they don't want that to happen. They would rather that you help them HIDE their affair.

They don't want to be exposed because it ruins their affair.

Did you tell her you were considering contacting the OMW? Because if you did, you very likely blew your greatest opportunity to end the affair. When the WS is forewarned, the OM can now go to his W and tell her that some "jealous nut" is accusing him of coming onto his wife. [jealous nut being you] So when you do finally call the W, you will have been thoroughly discredited and she will not believe a thing you say.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I also gave her the reins last night. I just hope that she dosn't trip herself up.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What does this mean exactly?

This states that I told her that IF she wanted to continue the A. That I was not going to come between them. Her tripping up means that, it will hurt me when she does fall from her high horse.

Yes she does know that I am trying to contact the OM's W. He intercepted some of my calls and she confronted me with this. I will not lye to my WW, or miss lead her. We have always maintained a level of openess. She was the one that told me of the A. After she stated that she wanted a D. But she has miss lead me in this deal. That does not give me the right to do the same.

She just called me a minute ago and wants me to write a letter to the OM's W and give it to her to delever. NOT!!!!

I know I have been discredited to her that is why I will find a way to get her all that I have. I'll just have to get under the wire.

Why don't you just pick up the phone and call her and be done with it?

You don't have to tell your wife about all your strategy to save your marriage, that is not LYING. You only hurt your chances of recovery if you show all your cards. The time for radical honesty is when you are in RECOVERY, you are not in recovery. You don't use it to UNDERMINE your efforts at saving your marriage.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by knowtomuch:
<strong> This states that I told her that IF she wanted to continue the A. That I was not going to come between them.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why wouldn't you come between them? Aren't you actively trying to end the affair, know? That is the goal of marriagebuilders.

<small>[ July 13, 2004, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: knowtomuch ]</small>

<small>[ July 13, 2004, 02:06 PM: Message edited by: knowtomuch ]</small>

Yes of coarse I want to end the A. But in my attemps to do this all I have done is to push her to him. So in letting her fly she is going to slip and when she does I will catch her. But I am not going to drop the whole thing just become a little more unseen were it counts.

I have been trying to contact the OM's W. But alas she is not awnsering and he is heading my messages off. I need to find out were she works. That would help alot. Of coarse we all know what she has been told of me. SO I have to find a way around it. Thoughts?

I have tried 3 times today to call her. No answer...
Thoughts on how I can contact her???

Yes of coarse I want the A to end and I will do everything in my powers to do that. But her guard is up so much that by saying this and appearing to back away she will relax a bit. That is what we need here, right? This is not saying that I am out of it just flying under the fence instead of over it. Mean while I will be assesing what ENs the OM is meeting and start bettering those needs plus fill her up with the ENs that I supply for her. All the while leading her thought about how he has stated for 2.5 months that he was leaving his wife and has not done that and is to all outside looker is trying to fix his M. How being married is the best wiw win sit. for every one. That I caan change and promote her spirtualy and mentaly and physicaly. These things I do for her, our 2 beutiful children and myself. I have seen a lot of good advise here at MB and have implemented some of it. That I have has been a great sucsses. We now talk rationaly, call each other 2-5 times a day,(and no I don't always call her)our kids are happier and tell mommy how they want me back in the house. She still does not tell me that she wants to work on the m but her rejections are far fewwer these days. We can sivvaly talk about the A. Both of us have found each others boundries and fear crossing them again. We have committed to being the best of freinds as we were for so long. Things are on a upbeat. (I hope)

Know for the downs. the OM's W contacted my W day before and dont really know what was said other than my W telling sorry. The OM's W will still not return my phone calls, can not find her work so have decided to send a letter and hope. The OM and WW have put in her head, that I am a bit unstable at the moment. The RO was brought to me again and like always I simply stated that there is no ground for that and the only proof that they have is comming from 2 p envolved in a A and it is all hear say. When I spoke to the PD the other day they politely infomed me that this is no grounds for a Ro but I should talk to the courts. So I did, they said the same thing. The affair is starting to fall apart in some views.