I know W was having an EA on the internet with OM a year ago.
W said it was just fantasy. Didn't mean a thing.
I know the weekend after she moved out she met OM in Toronto. She told me she did not have sex with him.
I know there have been other men she has met on the internet and later met face-to-face. Three that I am sure about because she told me. Said they were just friends.
Everything else is just suspicion, rumour and mistrust on my part.
We haven't talked about her having an affair since she told me about meeting OM in Toronto. That conversation was months ago.
It has been almost a year since i found out about the cyber-sex and W moved out.

How do I talk to her about it? Our MC thinks I need to talk about it with W.
Someone please help me figure out how.
And I mean I need a script.

One more question. Should I tell W about this site? If so should I wait until after we talk about A? Should I be worried about her reading my posts? Is there a way to let her know about this site without her knowing it came from me?

Or do I just let it all go and put it in God's hands?

Please help. I'm desperately lonely without her and feel like we are not moving. I want to rebuild our marriage into something better than ever. I don't know what she wants.

Thanks,
David

<small>[ July 12, 2004, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: dreid ]</small>

dreid, for starters I would definitely introduce her to this site. Don't worry about her seeing what you wrote here. That is the idea anyway isn't it? For her to understand what you are feeling and open up discussion. But don't try to ram it down her throat. Just mention some cases that you thought were similar to your own and ask her if she'd like to take a peak. Or perhaps print something out and leave it for her to read at her convenience.

Also try to create a safe enviornment for her to confess a PA if that's the case. Promise her you could handle it but that you can't handle this nagging feeling of doubt. You can watch closely and determine if she's lying as well. Be careful not to get excited during the conversation. You're not looking to start a 3 hour inquisition but rather just to open up dialogue. I think if you go easy you will have better results. I certainly know what you're going through with regard to lack of communication. Good luck, this is very important.

W had an appointment booked to meet with MC alone last night. She also had an appointment with eye doctor in the morning. He was putting drops in her eyes and told her they wouldn't wear off for 24 hours. She said she might not be able to go to MC because of that. So, of course, part of me is thinking, what a great excuse. She's not going.
Well. SURPRISE she did go see MC last night She didn't tell me what they talked about. I didn't expect her to. I didn't ask.
What bothers me is, she says MC wants to meet with each of us again individually before he meets with us as a couple. Boy, does that have me spinning.
What did they talk about?
Did she tell him something he has to prepare me for?
I'm thinking the worst. And I don't want to.

I had a long chat with my sister last night. She is trying hard not to take sides in this, but support both of us. My sister and W were friends before we got married. My sister actually introduced me to W.
Sis thinks I'm being too understanding and too hard on myself.
Any opinions?

<small>[ July 14, 2004, 10:17 AM: Message edited by: dreid ]</small>

Well I had my appointment with MC alone tonight. Not much to report really. Just talked about my fears and feelings. Trying to understand where my W's head and heart are at.
I felt good leaving there tonight.
I got home and found W had called the house while I was gone. Call display machine showed she called at 5:29. She knew I had an appointment with MC at 5:30. She talked to our son. Brought him some take out for dinner. Didn't stay though.
I e-mailed her this afternoon. Just some business stuff. Nothing intrusive or demanding. No response from her.

I'm really feeling like she is avoiding me on purpose. MC says I should be grateful she is going to counselling and I am.
But how are we supposed to rebuild our marriage if she continues to avoid contact with me? I haven't heard a word from her since the 15th. Today is the 20th.

Has anyone else been through this? Does she just need even more space?
Is this a sign that she is working on things from her end?
What does it mean?
Please somebody help me before I do or say something stupid and just push her away again.

The anticipation can sometimes be the worst part. I would trust the advice of the MC and do the one more time alone for each of you thing. The MC has the most information at this point.

The not knowing is a killer, but the fact she went is a positive thing.

Did you thank her for going? That would be a deposit in the love bank, I would think.

NCWalker

Yes, I did thank her for going. MC recommended a book for her to read. W didn't say what book but she did say she bought it and has started reading it already. Said she bought it at the local Christian bookstore. Seemed like a good sign, but I don't want to make too much of it.

Why the distance, though? Why won't she talk to me?

Look, she is going to be a roiling stew of emotions.

Loss - the A was good in a way, met her need
Guilt - over what she did, esp. if it was not in her nature
Relief - the whole thing is over, less tension
Depression - doesn't want to go back to the way things were
Fear - can't see how to sort out her feelings and move on, also fear of what YOU will do

Put yourself in her shoes for a minute. A portion of her blend of emotions is aimed at you. She is probably thinking that she doesn't deserve you. Or that you will "snap" and leave her.

You are dealing with strong emotions from one source - your wife. HER choice put you in your pain, you didn't ask for it and had little to do with it, other than contributing to a M that allowed you two to grow apart.

She is dealing with pain from many sources, you, the OP, and her own self for what she has done.

I am not belittling YOUR pain or justifying hers, it simply is what it is. You both have it and it is different. Further, you have these peaks and valleys and neither one of you are in synch about it.

She is showing you distance while she sorts that out. You need to be close (to rescue her from herself, if need be) but NOT intrusive.

The BS typically wants it over NOW. Doesn't work that way for WS. In my sitch, NC has only been 3 weeks and I am in a lull in the storm. Wife has been showing me closeness. But it comes and goes.

Part and parcel of what you have to face.

Analogy time: Your spouse probably feels trapped. Like a noose is around her neck. But this noose is tied to a pole and you are holding the other end. She has to walk out of this situation. YOU have to pace her as best as you can. Go too fast and you will push her over, go too slow and you will pull her over.

Vent here when you need to, put your best forward at home. Look to the future - when SHE realizes (and she will) the sacrifice YOU made for the M, what kind of wife do you think she will be then? I'd want to be there for that.

Stick with the counselling.

NCW

Dreid, I proud of you for wanting to fix your marriage. After more than a year of this behaivor and the multiple times. I unfortunately don't believe her "just friends" answers about the internet.

I would definitely NOT introduce her to the MB site. Read my earlier thread on my own experiences and the experiences of others. I don't know how to link it to this response but I started it yesterday.

I also would let your MC take the lead in talking to her about her A's. I don't think she would listen to you much, or take to heart what you say. Hopefully an independent third party can help her see the destructiveness of her internet behaivor. Especially if she is meeting strangers... I mean that's dangerous. If you really want to talk to her, ask your MC how you should approach it... the MC could give you a script maybe.

NC: I liked your comment about "you need to be close (to rescue her from herself ...) I've felt this way my whole life. There is no rescuing my WW now. We are freefalling and it's just a matter of time before we strike bottom. She is looking forward to the impact. I'm making sure it hurts as little as possible, for myself and kids.

Thank you for responding. I like your analogy. I often thought she may feel trapped. Living a life she doesn't want but not knowing how to get out. Wanting to come home to me, feeling she can't with this EA between us but fearing I won't let her come back because of it.
A lot of confusion.

I am in the middle of writing her a letter. I want to express to her that I know how much damage I did, to her and our marriage. Asking her to forgive me and give me a chance to love her again. I may not send the letter, I don't know. Either way its therepautic for me.
I want to be the man who fulfills her EN. I still want to grow old with her. I was lying in bed last night thinking about what I miss most. When I thought about just talking to her I started to cry. We really were best friends once. I want that back.

It's so hard to be patient. We have been apart for almost a year now and my feelings for her haven't dimmed at all. If anything my love for her is deeper than ever.

"We don't know what we've got till its gone."

Here is the letter I told you all I was working on. What is everyone's opinion? Do I send it to her or do I just keep it to myself to avoid pushing her?


________________________________________________
Dear W

I want to tell you how sorry I am for the way my neglect and irresponsibility have damaged you and our marriage.

Most of the time I didn’t know I was hurting you. I should have known, but I was so wrapped up in myself that I very often neglected you and our marriage. It was a real shock to discover that I was happily married, but you weren’t. I was blind to what my self-centeredness was doing and had done to you. I have been irresponsible, neglectful and I must have seemed uncaring.

I believe we got married for the right reasons. I love you and you loved me. It was our responsibility to keep that love alive. We planned a life together and I failed to carry out my part in that.

In the end I was no longer acting like a husband, a friend or a partner to you. I wasn’t meeting your needs. I wasn’t there when you needed a partner to help with finances. I wasn’t there when you needed someone to lean on. I wasn’t there when you needed a gentle, passionate lover. I wasn’t there when you just wanted someone you could talk to.

Then came the day when you decided you had to separate from me, if only to give yourself a chance to heal and decide what you want for yourself and your future. That must have been a painful, difficult decision to come to. As painful as our separation has been for me I don’t blame you for taking time for yourself. I deeply regret and am deeply sorry for the part I played in you having to make that decision.

I cannot take back the past and I can't change what has happened.

I want you to know that I am working to heal myself, to grow and become a better person, a better man. I hope and pray that you will be able to forgive me my mistakes and blindness. I hope and pray that you will allow me to love you again and be the friend, husband and lover that you have always deserved. I want to spend the rest of my life being the good husband I once was and far, far better than that.

________________________________________________

Any input would be helpful.
Thanks

dreid,

The tone of the letter seems good to me. And they always say that communication is the key. So I would say go with it. It says what you feel and says it well.

Not sure how this fits in with plan A. I think it is OK.

Also not sure how a fogged WW would take this letter. It may fall on deaf ears. I will get my wife to read it and give you her thoughts. She is FWW and posts.

NCWalker

Thanks ncw. I will wait a day or two before I decide wether to send it or not.

Hoping for input from others as well.

Thank your wife for me as well.

I just saw W for a few minutes. I was on-line last night before I left for work and she saw me there and SHE said hello first. We chatted for about a half-hour. (I was late for work) She offered to stop by and give me a ride home from work this morning.
She showed up as expected and we sat in the car and just talked for about a half-hour. Just small talk really. Work, our son, she's been sick.
It was really, really hard. I wanted to tell her all those things that are in my heart. You know, those cruel, terrible things like;"I love you, I miss you, come home"
We are supposed to be having dinner tonight. The three of us. Looking forward to it.
She is making plans to take our son on vacation the beginning of August. The two of them and maybe our son's girlfriend as well.
I want things to get moving. I know I'm being impatient, but being without her is making me crazy.
Oh well. Not much more to say really. Just catching up.
I realized last night that everything I have shared about our separation, here, at AA meetings and one on one with others (including MC) has gone through my suspicion filter first. I know the EA happened but I have no evidence of anything more. I can't prove a PA or any other relationships with OMen. I'm not backing off. I'm not saying they didn't happen I just need to look at things as objectively as I can. If I can get my suspicious mind out of the way, maybe trust will be easier to rebuild. Trust for her and from her.

Thanks again.

<small>[ July 23, 2004, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: dreid ]</small>

Hi. This is RAP, NCWalker's FWW. As he said, it has only been 3 weeks into no contact. Before then I had 3 false starts.

I read your letter. I thought it was truly heartfelt. Now that I am somewhat waking up so to speak, I would receive your letter.

Depending on where your wife is, she will probably appreciate it.

Do not expect too much. When H would write me letters in this process (as he frequently has) I could not digest it. It was almost like reading a blank page. I knew he had put lots of thought into it, but my focus just was not there.

I know this may not be helping. Please know that I think LATER, maybe much later, she will really absorb what this letter says.

Now, she will probably just appreciate you acknowledging what you have. It will be a LB$,but do not expect her to show you that now.

She is confused, guilty, hurt. It is not fair to you. I know this! But this is probably where she is.

I think it is wonderful that you are willing to fight for your M.

Give her time. Send the letter. Just take with a grain of salt her response.

Just so you know, I am almost ready to reread some of H's letters. I could not handle them then. They would even cause anger because I felt forced to feel for him. Not fair, but true.

Blessings to you, and I think you sound like a great person,
RAP

^


^

Hi, Just home from dinner with W and son. Had a really nice time. She said she did too. She looked so pretty tonight.Hard to take my eyes off of her. I think she caught me sneaking a look at her cleavage. I feel silly admitting that.
She has been sick lately, body getting used to new diabetic meds. Hadn't kept in touch because she didn't want me or son to worry. I told her (again) "Knowing is always better than not knowing." I would rather know what I am worried about.
Anyway, a good time was had by all.
About the letter; If I send it, how? E-mail is to easy to delete. Snail mail takes so long. How about printing it, putting it in an envelope and leaving it for her? In the car or something when she is over.
RAP, you said you were almost ready to reread letters from H. If I e-mail and she reads and deletes there is no chance to reread later.
She is going on a trip with our son, leaving next Saturday. What if I arrange a printed copy of letter to be in her hands when she goes away. Let her read it at her leisure and maybe a reread. Give her a chance to think about it or ignore it, whichever works for her.

Thanks all.

Hey, I'm officially a Member. No more junior for me. No sir!!

Anyway, I may have LB'ed a little tonight. After dinner when W and I were alone I asked her to get in touch with MC. The next appointment is supposed to be for her alone and I was worried about things dragging out waiting for her to make appointment. I'm sure alot of you know how difficult it can be to book appointments with MCs.
I explained to her that was my concern. With her going away I thought a call this coming week for an appointment after she returns would be the best way to handle it. She seemed to understand and thought it made sense. I'm going to try to leave it to her and God now.

Did I blow it?

No sir,

I think you handled it quite well. When they are fogged, they sometimes read in too much what we as the BS are trying to do.

You sound like you understand your part in all this ... good.

You sound like you are speaking with peace and clarity to your WW ... good.

You sound like you want this to work ... good.

You sound like you have patience ... good.

All of that will help to help your WW.

Just don't forget it when you go through a low period. Happens to all of us.

NCWalker

Thank you.

I sent the letter last night. Still not sure why.

Please keep me in your prayers.

Dreid,

I just read through your post and I wanted to say I really like the letter. I thought it was wonderful, if my X wrote me a letter like that I would even consider taking him back. It shows a lot of introspection on your part.

Sending good wishes and hopes your way,

Weaver