Well, he cried and wanted me back & wanted his life back & said all the right things, and I wanted it to work, so I gave him the chance. Yesterday, my aunt saw him & the OW in a parking lot in town on lunch talking. When I confronted him with it, of course he lied & lied & lied. I've thought all along that he was lying to me & to her & since she & I used to be best friends, I decided it was time for me to give her a call. My sister had called her & went off on her last night and he got really pissed off about that because he thought she wouldn't want anything to do with him, so he called her last night. He was hateful to me after he talked to her and he told me that now he "doesn't know what he wants again." He kept telling me that he'll have to fight with my family (which isn't true at all, because they're never said anything to him - they've left it all between us until my sister called her last night), and he doesn't know how he can get his "life back", and he really doesn't see how we could possibly work it out now. I told him if he felt that way because of what my sister did, since I had no control over that, that he never really wanted to work it out with me and I asked him was he ready for the no contact rule. He said that he'll never be ready for that.

Then he went to bed and I waited until he went to sleep and I called her (OW) at about 11:30PM. We had a very lengthy and pleasant conversation. I told her all the crap he had told me and all the stuff he told me about her, and she told me all the stuff he had been saying to her about me. She never hesitated to tell me that yes they were talking in a parking lot in town. She also was floored and kept telling me that she was in shock and that she had bought into all of his b---s--t and she really believed him. She told me that she didn't think things were right though, because when he broke it off with her Monday of last week, he just kept telling her it was about the kids and that he couldn't be a part time dad. She told me she understood that, but didn't understand how he would want to live with me if that's all there was between us. I told her according to him he wanted me, because I asked him up front if it was because of the kids and losing his stuff and losing the majority of his paycheck (3 kids & leaving me w/the bills), and of course he kept telling me he loved me and wanted to be with me or he wouldn't be there. She told me that she does think he loves me and he is where he wants to be or he wouldn't have dropped her and told her he wanted to go home. I told her that what I thought is that he was faced with me being through with him for good and maybe me seeing someone else and he couldn't lose me, so he was trying to ease her back into a sneaking type of relationship with him. She told me that he's lied to her one too many times and she's done with him. She told me that she was going to not speak to him and not answer his calls because he had lied to her so bad and he never really had to. I told her that I think he's lied so much he doesn't even know what the truth is anymore. I just hate that I had to live with him for 11 years to see him for what he's worth. I've not told him yet that I've talked to her and she's not confronted him yet either. I asked her to keep it quiet for a few days, no matter how bad she'd like to go off on him, and she & I are going to leave it that way for a few days & see how much more rope he gives himself to hang with. We both think he'll lie, lie, lie about everything. He'll tell me she's lying and he'll tell her I'm lying. She told me she divorced her 1st husband for less than that and that she's done with him and there's no way she's going to let him get away with lying to her & hurting her anymore. She told me goodluck with him and that if she's out of the picture for good, maybe we'll work out. I told her that I don't really think I want to work it out with someone who thinks so little of me.

Tell me, what am I trying to work out? He lies at random and tells everybody what he thinks they want to hear because he's so selfish, he doesn't care about my feelings at all, he obviously doesn't care about the kids feelings, he's selfish and childish, and he can't make any adult decisions. I know I have 3 kids, and I do love him, and I've invested a lot of years into him & me, but what has it all been worth? Do I really want this piece of s--t back? I don't really think so, but I know that I'm going to hurt again like I've never hurt before, but I don't know how I can ever trust him again (even moderately) and I don't know how I can raise 3 kids with someone who thinks so little of me. I'm sure there's a guy out there that would appreciate a woman that works 40-45 hours a week, making good money, that cooks dinner every night and keeps the house pretty clean, and I'm not a cheater. I keep thinking maybe I'm better off without him and just bearing the hurt all together now & breaking it off clean. Why is it so hard to do that? And why do I have such a hard time letting go of him since he's so crappy? Has anyone else ever done that with the OP? Talked to them & brought all the lies out and let the chips fall where they may?

Has he always been like this? Or just since the affair?

Lost in Emotion-I for one would value very much a woman that works 40-45 hours per week, cooks and cleans and most of all doesn't cheat. Especially if this woman was honest with me and i with her on all levels. I so sorry for what you are going through but there are men out there that value anc cherish the qualities that you have.

Thanks hopefulinnc. You give me hope & that's something that has seemed so foreign to me for so long. Where was a guy like you 12 years ago. lol - Thank you so much.

Believer, no he's never been such a lying piece of s--t until this affair, and I guess that's the person that he's become. I've been married to him for 9 1/2 years and we lived together for 1 1/2 years before that, and we worked together as partners at work for another year before that, and I've never seen this behavior. Several years ago he had an experience where he was talking to someone & it got a little deep and he backed off and after a couple of weeks he told me about it because he felt guilty. This is more like he's got a driving need to keep me under his thumb, but he can't get her out of his system and he's willing to hurt anybody & anything to keep what he wants. He's always been selfish & self-centered to a point, but not to this level. He's gone above and beyond that at this point. I just don't feel he really has any redeeming qualities at this point other than the fact he's the father of my 3 children & how are they better off with him if he's this wishy-washy & self-centered? I don't know how to feel. I'm finally angry & sick of it, and even though I genuinely love him & would love nothing better than to fight to keep my family together, what is there with someone like him? How can I sleep with a man for the rest of my life when I can't trust him at all, even about small things that are so small?

I just posted on my own thread almost the same sentiments, LIE. I have no idea if I want my sh*head H back either! He has also turned into a sneaky lying jerk.

I don't think we can make a decision right now because there is still fog and withdrawals to deal with for a little while. I wish I could call OW and talk, but she is an absolute a$$ who I want nothing to do with.

whatamidoing - the difference with the OW in my situation is that we were so called best friends and she hung around us all the time, so when I contacted her last night, she wanted to talk to me. I think she was wanting to know what bs he was spinning and telling her too. We both, I think, realized there was a lot of bs going on. She was more hurt because she believed all of his crap, and I on the other hand was more mad because I already know him so well, I knew everything he was saying to me was a lie and I knew in the same token he was lying out his a-- to her too. I can't help but wish things were different and that he was sincere in wanting to make the marriage work; I have 3 small children that will be heartbroken when he & I get divorced, but even though he's still at home, I don't see any way past where we're at. I talked to the OW a few minutes ago & she advised me that she's going to text message him and tell him that she's decided that she doesn't want anything else to do with him and he better not call her or text her or try to come see her anymore, she's through with him. She's not going to tell him that we've talked yet. She also told me that she has less to lose and I can tell him she called me & asked me if it makes it any easier for me. I told her I'm going to let him know, but I'm going to do it when the time is right. I figure that once she texts him that he'll come home mad & he may even get his stuff and leave to show her he's done with me. She told me she doesn't think he is done with me, even if he leaves. She also said that she's done with him & it doesn't matter if he leaves because she no longer believes a word that comes out of his mouth period. I don't really trust her either, but I do think that she's really fed up with his crap & doesn't want anything to do with him, because he's make her feel like a complete idiot. In my mind, though, we were living together but separate and he could see her without sneaking and lying & then that wasn't good enough, he ended it with her and told me we'd work it out & then he turned around and tried to start something up with her that constituted sneaking again. I think he needs the thrill of the chase & the sneaking to make him feel like an egomaniac. He may have never messed around on me before, but now that he's had a taste of the excitement, I don't think that he'll be willing to be monogamous anyway, so what's the point? I'm not going to keep going through this. I'd rather be hurt, desparate, confused and scared all together and work on getting that out of my system. The sooner I can get to that point, the better.

whatamidoing - the difference with the OW in my situation is that we were so called best friends and she hung around us all the time, so when I contacted her last night, she wanted to talk to me. I think she was wanting to know what bs he was spinning and telling her too. We both, I think, realized there was a lot of bs going on. She was more hurt because she believed all of his crap, and I on the other hand was more mad because I already know him so well, I knew everything he was saying to me was a lie and I knew in the same token he was lying out his a-- to her too. I can't help but wish things were different and that he was sincere in wanting to make the marriage work; I have 3 small children that will be heartbroken when he & I get divorced, but even though he's still at home, I don't see any way past where we're at. I talked to the OW a few minutes ago & she advised me that she's going to text message him and tell him that she's decided that she doesn't want anything else to do with him and he better not call her or text her or try to come see her anymore, she's through with him. She's not going to tell him that we've talked yet. She also told me that she has less to lose and I can tell him she called me & asked me if it makes it any easier for me. I told her I'm going to let him know, but I'm going to do it when the time is right. I figure that once she texts him that he'll come home mad & he may even get his stuff and leave to show her he's done with me. She told me she doesn't think he is done with me, even if he leaves. She also said that she's done with him & it doesn't matter if he leaves because she no longer believes a word that comes out of his mouth period. I don't really trust her either, but I do think that she's really fed up with his crap & doesn't want anything to do with him, because he's make her feel like a complete idiot. In my mind, though, we were living together but separate and he could see her without sneaking and lying & then that wasn't good enough, he ended it with her and told me we'd work it out & then he turned around and tried to start something up with her that constituted sneaking again. I think he needs the thrill of the chase & the sneaking to make him feel like an egomaniac. He may have never messed around on me before, but now that he's had a taste of the excitement, I don't think that he'll be willing to be monogamous anyway, so what's the point? I'm not going to keep going through this. I'd rather be hurt, desparate, confused and scared all together and work on getting that out of my system. The sooner I can get to that point, the better.

whatamidoing - the difference with the OW in my situation is that we were so called best friends and she hung around us all the time, so when I contacted her last night, she wanted to talk to me. I think she was wanting to know what bs he was spinning and telling her too. We both, I think, realized there was a lot of bs going on. She was more hurt because she believed all of his crap, and I on the other hand was more mad because I already know him so well, I knew everything he was saying to me was a lie and I knew in the same token he was lying out his a-- to her too. I can't help but wish things were different and that he was sincere in wanting to make the marriage work; I have 3 small children that will be heartbroken when he & I get divorced, but even though he's still at home, I don't see any way past where we're at. I talked to the OW a few minutes ago & she advised me that she's going to text message him and tell him that she's decided that she doesn't want anything else to do with him and he better not call her or text her or try to come see her anymore, she's through with him. She's not going to tell him that we've talked yet. She also told me that she has less to lose and I can tell him she called me & asked me if it makes it any easier for me. I told her I'm going to let him know, but I'm going to do it when the time is right. I figure that once she texts him that he'll come home mad & he may even get his stuff and leave to show her he's done with me. She told me she doesn't think he is done with me, even if he leaves. She also said that she's done with him & it doesn't matter if he leaves because she no longer believes a word that comes out of his mouth period. I don't really trust her either, but I do think that she's really fed up with his crap & doesn't want anything to do with him, because he's make her feel like a complete idiot. In my mind, though, we were living together but separate and he could see her without sneaking and lying & then that wasn't good enough, he ended it with her and told me we'd work it out & then he turned around and tried to start something up with her that constituted sneaking again. I think he needs the thrill of the chase & the sneaking to make him feel like an egomaniac. He may have never messed around on me before, but now that he's had a taste of the excitement, I don't think that he'll be willing to be monogamous anyway, so what's the point? I'm not going to keep going through this. I'd rather be hurt, desparate, confused and scared all together and work on getting that out of my system. The sooner I can get to that point, the better.

When is she going to text message him? Today? Make sure you let us know what happens ok?

Remember, no LB's when you two are talking later.

You need him to write her a no contact letter, too. All this wavering and waffling is all fogtalk, so try to ignore it. He will probably hand you a story like, I'm going to leave you anyway, I don't want any relationship right now, blahblahblah...

Good luck.

Probably so. I'll let you know what happens. I'm thinking about texting him and letting him know that she called me yesterday and leave it at that. I don't think there's a lot of love left to lose. He obviously doesn't love me or he wouldn't have sat on the fence this long and keep treating me like crap. I'm basically nothing but security to him, so why not?

I told him & he didn't own up to anything, but he didn't really deny anything. He said that he wanted both of us & he kept saying what he thought both of us wanted to hear to salvage keeping both of us on a thread. I told her I called him & told him. She says that she's going to call him & cuss him out this afternoon and tell him thank you for lying & mistreating her. She said that she's going to tell him bye under no uncertain terms. For all I know, she might call him and talk to him & decide that she wants him, so I guess we'll see. At least the truth is finally coming out.