OM's W has asked me to serve as her ambassador to MB. She is nervous about posting here.

She wants to know whether she should insist on being there when OM meets the sparrow and tells her it is over between them. Here's what she wrote:

"I am wondering if you can do a favor for me. will you post on mb and ask about me being there when he tells the sparrow that it is done? i really dont know what to do here. the biggest thing i am feeling about all of this is that i cant trust him. at all. i feel i need to be there when he tells her so that i am sure that it happened. also, perhaps my being there will discourage her from contacting him in future?"

She needs to know how tough to be with him. She knows he will be very, very uncomfortable doing this. Is it wise for her to give him any slack?

Thanks,

GC

gc:

if she doesn't want to post here, perhaps suggest she go to www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com and post there. It's a much smaller forum, hosted by Penny Tupy (cerri on MB).

As far as whether she should go with him or not: He should break it off with Sparrow WITHOUT seeing her again 2 do it. He and his W should write her a NC letter 2gether. OR, he could call her with his W on the other line, and end it that way. Regardless, his obligation is 2 his W first, not 2 sparrow.

I doubt he'll "want" 2 do it the "right way" in any case, so the next 2uestion is whether the OMW can be civil in sparrow's presence. If so, then she should probably be there when he breaks it off. He should NOT go alone (but he probably will, more than once <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

best,
-ol' 2long

graycloud,

Goodbyes should never be done in person for anyone involved in an affair. It's just an opportunity for more chemistry. Goodbyes should ideally be done with a letter...that SHE mails, or can be done by phone while she sits there. She is right NOT to trust him....she should not. Afterwards, she is entitled to accountability from him....in terms of money, time, schedules, passwords etc. Please encourage her to come and post. Send her my welcome and prayers.

graycloud, the others are right, this should not be done in person, but via a letter. A letter that is written TOGETHER. Here are some sample letters to give you an idea of what needs to be conveyed. Now, if the affair is really over he shouldn't have a problem doing this.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=018918

ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto ditto

But no slck on the NC letter.

Why is she nervous for posting here?

WAT

OM is planning to meet the sparrow on Saturday, and they are supposed to go to a concert together next Wednesday.

Being counseled by his "do what you have to do be happy" mother and being all foggified has OM in a state where he is not terribly receptive to MB principles, I'd say.

Is there a way for his W to insist on some version of phone call w/her on the line vs. NC letter they write together vs. her being there when OM breaks it off, without coming across as the evil controlling b**ch she's supposed to be? I really don't think OM is ready to never see my W again yet.

GC

Gray,
The reason it shouldn't happen in person is bc even the most resolute usually falter when they have their affair partner in front of them.

A spouse who wants to end it is also more likely to "sugar coat" it in person. I also believe this can happen when done over the phone.

The nessage should be short and sweet:

Sparrow,
I love my wife. This relationship has been a huge mistake and I've hurt her badly. For this reason I can never see you again.

No sugary sweet crud about how I'll always remember you and you are my soulmate forever. More BS.

The OM's W is right about not trusting her H if she's not present. That's why the NC letter is written with spouse's supervision and approval.

The NC letter is the WS's first chance to start restoring the trust that has been lost.

Mac

OM's W is nervous about posting because she'd have to take down certain security measures on her 'puter &c for it to work, first off. Secondly, OM is a computer person, and she isn't sure she'd be able to maintain secrecy in her posting without him uncovering her tracks.

She has nothing to fear from him, and nothing to hide. She only believes he'd find out she was posting here and would interpret her as being manipulative.

GC

Hey gray, if he is not serious about ending things with your W, this woman is in for a world of hurt like she hasn't known. She is going down a very long tortuous road FOR NO REASON if she lets him dictate the terms of his return.

If she does not lay down firm boundaries WHILE SHE HAS THE LEVERAGE, then she LOSES her leverage. Right now she has the control. That will change as soon as he comes back. If she lets him come back on his terms instead of HERS, then she is doomed to continued contact over a VERY LONG PERIOD OF TIME.

And you know why? Because if he is at home, where he wants to be, he can carry on the affair FOREVER as long as he is getting his needs met in 2 places. It is a recipe for DISASTER because he would then have NO MOTIVATION to end the affair. As it is now, he has a motivation to end the affair, he misses his wife and family.

Ask her if she is willing to pay those consequences, which will be continued contact, but continued contact UP FRONT AND CLOSE. She will have her nose rubbed in it every day.

It is much better to take him back when he is REALLY READY, as demonstrated by his willingness to agree to her terms to REALLY end contact, than it is to let a crazy, addicted WS dictate the terms under which she will live.

Can't you send her here to us?

<small>[ July 13, 2004, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

I'm tryin' MelodyLane, I'm tryin'. I'm sure she's reading this thread.

GC

GC-
I'm glad to see things are moving in thr right direction for you. I and severasl others are in the same position, kinda like a group breakup or something (I just posted to Lost In Emotion a few minutes ago).

My H is still clinging to OW, so our sitch is slightly different. Listen to the experts here. Face-to-face contact is way too risky. They will cave and not do a clean break. They are druggies, remember, not of this planet, so normal rules of conduct do not apply.

I wish OMW would post here, she would get lots of support.

They're meeting on Saturday. They aren't still going to a concert next week, are they?? You sound like me, knowing their plans and such. Makes me wanna puke!

ok, good deal.

Yep, I'm sure I could figure out what concert they're going to and show up myself just to be difficult. Not my plan, however, unless it's somebody really good.

Waiting to hear my friend's responses to this thread...

GC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong> OM is planning to meet the sparrow on Saturday, and they are supposed to go to a concert together next Wednesday.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wait a minute.

This doesn't sound like he's trying to end anything.

What did I miss?

Is he just stringin' his wife along - claiming to soon end it?

WAT

I'm sick of calling her OM's W. I don't know what her MB handle is, so I think I'll...

Call her Ishmael.

Ishmael, let me know what you think of the advice you've read so far.

GC

I don't know if Saturday he's planning to end it and then the concert just won't happen, or what. He told Ishmael last night he doesn't want to "string her along", but yes, if he goes along with his plans with the sparrow, that is just what he'll be doing.

I'm on the outside looking in, y'all.

GC

gc:

Why doesn't he offer 2 take his W 2 the concert? Or sell the tickets?

If he "ends it" on Sa2rday, then goes 2 the concert with her anyway, where's his credibility?

...still in the can.

-2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by graycloud:
<strong> I'm sick of calling her OM's W. I don't know what her MB handle is, so I think I'll...

Call her Ishmael.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's a guy name, silly!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

The absolute truth is that she cannot demand he do anything. What she can do is confront him with her feelings, and make respectful requests...that is the essence of Plan A. Until he is ready to end contact, she can't insist that he do it. She can talk about what her boundaries are, how much his continued contact is hurting her, and what she intends to do to stop the pain of being exposed to an on going affair. Chances are, if he is willing to continue the affair right under her nose...he isn't ready for no contact...and my guess is she may have to move to a higher risk strategy before changes occur. In the meantime, she must be VERY cautious about demanding things, and keep her responses about what she feels and requests of him.

If posting is a problem....then I would highly suggest she get a good coach to talk to by phone so that she feels confident in the advice she gets and he can't track her. Please advise her to begin getting her finances in order and preparing herself should she need to go to Plan B.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Ishmael? Sheesh Gray - I thought you were supposed to be creative?? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Since the WH has actually been living out of the house - I would NOT let him come back without good boundries set. This doesn't have to be a demand - it's set up to protect Ish (can't do the whole name, sorry). And as such, you can tell him that. "Dearest H, I do love you and would love nothing more than to be a family again, however I am distrustful and fearful given your past actions. Are you willing to work with me to help protect me and our marriage from further pain and heartbreak?"

I also agree that the letter should be written by both and sent by Ish. No 'in person' contact. Many, many WS's have said they were ready to end it only to start everything right back up when their final goodbye was in person.